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Is It Morally Acceptable To Hope Anyone Goes To Hell?
The Federalist Patiot ^ | Dec. 6, 2004 | Dennis Prager

Posted on 12/06/2004 12:44:58 PM PST by Lindykim

"Is it morally and theologically acceptable to hope anyone goes to hell? ... One...need not be a conservative Christian to believe in some form of hell for the evil. All one need be is a rational believer in a just God. For if there is a just God, it is inconceivable that those who do evil and those who do good have identical fates. A just God must care about justice, and since there is little justice in this world, there has to be in the next. And belief in the next world is also not confined to Christianity. As the Encyclopedia Judaica ... (edited largely by non-religious Jews) notes in the first sentence under the heading 'Afterlife,' 'Judaism has always believed in an afterlife.' ... Much of humanity has been adversely affected by modern-day terror. The lives of millions -- virtually all Palestinians and Israelis, for example -- have been terribly affected by Arafat. And there are hundreds of thousands of people whose lives have been destroyed or shattered by him. At the same time, other than a few sycophants enriched by some of the billions of dollars he embezzled from the Palestinians, no one has had a better life because Yasser Arafat lived. ... Yasser Arafat single-handedly made nihilistic acts of cruelty routine, even respectable. ... Thanks to him, the Palestinian name is identified among people of goodwill with barbarity just as the German name came to be associated with barbarity as a result of Hitler. ... Just as any decent human being would want good people to be rewarded in whatever existence there is after this life, they would want the cruelest of people to be punished. So, of course, I hope Yasser Arafat is in hell. ... If you think that is hard-hearted, consider the alternative, that one of the most corrupt and cruel human beings of the past half-century is resting in peace. Whoever isn't bothered by that is the one with the hard heart." --Dennis Prager


TOPICS: Miscellaneous; Philosophy
KEYWORDS: billclinton; craighines; democratunderground; helenthomas; hellyeah; hillary; joewilson; margaretsanger; markmorford; prager; wayneslater; yes
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To: It's me

Hell is the termination of your soul. The second death. The end of your spiritual existance. No eternal life for you. Fin. End. Done. Cast into the lake of burning sulfer. Snuffed. The end.

You can tell someone that they are going to hell, that's apropriate. Ultimately, God is the judge. So, follow the path Christ has laid. The path is narrow.


51 posted on 12/06/2004 12:58:40 PM PST by Nuzcruizer
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To: Lindykim
When we don't get what we deserve--it's a real good thing
a real good thing
When we get what we don't deserve--it's a real good thing
a real good thing

-The Newsboys

52 posted on 12/06/2004 12:58:46 PM PST by kezekiel
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To: Lindykim

God doesn't want anyone to go to hell.

So why would his followers wish people burn in hell for eternity?

(I realize many want others to burn in hell- homosexuals, abortionists, etc.)

But something bothers me about "Christians" who want people to go to hell more than God wants them there.


53 posted on 12/06/2004 12:59:05 PM PST by KidGlock (W-1)
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To: Lindykim

I hate that when my paragraphs go wandering.....


54 posted on 12/06/2004 12:59:08 PM PST by anniegetyourgun
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To: G32
"Even the 9/11 hijackers and so on?"

Yep.

Christ died even for them.

Pure love always conquers pure evil.

55 posted on 12/06/2004 12:59:23 PM PST by chs68
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To: Marysecretary

Heaven is one exclusive country club. The blessed are truly few it seems. I'm sure, however, that you are one of them. :-) I on the other hand...


56 posted on 12/06/2004 12:59:24 PM PST by Clemenza (Gabba Gabba Hey!)
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To: Tax-chick

They'll bless his PEA PICKIN' heart!


57 posted on 12/06/2004 12:59:34 PM PST by bonfire
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To: durasell

Hoping isn't judging.


58 posted on 12/06/2004 12:59:36 PM PST by Paved Paradise
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To: chs68

Glad I'm not a christian then.


59 posted on 12/06/2004 1:00:05 PM PST by G32
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To: Tax-chick
Not in Judaism, I believe.
60 posted on 12/06/2004 1:00:10 PM PST by wideawake (God bless our brave soldiers and their Commander in Chief)
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To: Lindykim

I'm not sniping at you.

I'm sniping at the other poster who seems to think that hoping fro eternal damnation is a GOOD thing.

The fact that he's a newbie doesn't improve my opinion of him.


61 posted on 12/06/2004 1:00:25 PM PST by tiamat ("Just a Bronze-Age Gal, Trapped in a Techno-World!")
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To: Lindykim
I am not a Christian. But being familiar with the axioms of Christianity, I'd say that the argument would go as follows:

The decision to send someone to Hell is wholly in the hands of God. If He wishes to damn someone, no power on Heaven or Earth can prevent Him, and likewise if He wanted to save someone. Given the God is omniscient, omnipotent, and omnibenevolent, His decision on an individual's condemnation is by definition just.

To hope that someone is damned is to hope that God judges him worthy of such damnation. Again, since God's judgment is infallible on this matter (and on every other matter), to say "I hope he goes to Hell" is equivalent to saying "I hope that his conduct justifies damnation." In other words, if you hope that Osama bin Laden goes to hell, you are hoping that in God's rulebook slaughtering 3,000 innocents is sufficient to keep one from Heaven.

So it's just a statement of preference regarding the unknowable mind of God. I see nothing morally objectionable about that.

But again, keep in mind that I'm not a Christian and do not believe in the Christian God.

62 posted on 12/06/2004 1:00:26 PM PST by Politicalities (http://www.politicalities.com)
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To: Lindykim
Is It Morally Acceptable To Hope Anyone Goes To Hell?

I would think so. Now, helping them along might be another matter ;-)

63 posted on 12/06/2004 1:00:44 PM PST by varon (Allegiance to the constitution, always. Allegiance to a political party, never.)
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To: G32

Alas, yes.

The difference between the hijackers and a typical law-abiding good person, is small, in God's eyes.

And we all fall short of the Glory of God, which is what matters.


64 posted on 12/06/2004 1:00:46 PM PST by MeanWestTexan
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To: rdb3

So, if he died for everyone's sins, all are going to Heaven, right?

I think only those who accept that Jesus died for their sins will go to heaven, so that excludes some people. (The Jewish people, I have no idea, that is a mystery to me, but I think they get a second chance somewhere along the line)

We have free will. If we all automatically went to heaven, there would be no need for free will or for redemtion!


65 posted on 12/06/2004 1:01:00 PM PST by hushpad
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To: aimhigh
God doesn't desire that anyone perish. It would have been great to see Arafat repent of his sins, confess all of his evil deeds, and then ask his fellow Pali's to honor Israel as God's chosen people.

How do you know he didn't?

66 posted on 12/06/2004 1:01:14 PM PST by Labyrinthos
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To: rdb3
So, if he died for everyone's sins, all are going to Heaven, right?

I think the point is that, though deserving of hell, God took mercy upon us. We should recognize that we are unworthy as any other, and instead of wishing damnation on them, hope for a deathbed conversion.

Remember, we will be judged by the measure we use to judge others. Even terrorist madmen.

SD

67 posted on 12/06/2004 1:01:17 PM PST by SoothingDave
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To: bushisdamanin04

Presuming God's forgiveness/mercy.
Which is a sin in itself.


68 posted on 12/06/2004 1:01:21 PM PST by It's me
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To: atomicpossum
Whether he goes to heaven or hell

I'm confident he isnt going to be in Heaven f'n that place up before I get there. He's where he asked to be...near his god.

69 posted on 12/06/2004 1:01:26 PM PST by wallcrawlr
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To: Walkingfeather
It is not our line to draw. It is God's and he drew it at the cross.

Very well put. Since we know that God wills all men to be saved, then it is literally ungodly for us to wish them damned. Yasser Arafat, among other dreadful examples, may be in Hell, but our job was to pray for his conversion.

One of the hardest things to "internalize" about Christianity, I think, is that *anyone* can be forgiven if he sincerely repents, no matter what he has done.

70 posted on 12/06/2004 1:01:56 PM PST by Tax-chick (Poison ivy berries are a favorite food of the Downy Woodpecker.)
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To: KidGlock

KidGlock wrote:




But something bothers me about "Christians" who want people to go to hell more than God wants them there.






There you go!


71 posted on 12/06/2004 1:02:12 PM PST by tiamat ("Just a Bronze-Age Gal, Trapped in a Techno-World!")
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To: bushisdamanin04

Presumption.


72 posted on 12/06/2004 1:02:50 PM PST by wideawake (God bless our brave soldiers and their Commander in Chief)
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To: sitetest

Respectfully, as a Christian who is not Catholic.

What is purgatory? and where is it mentioned in the Bible?


73 posted on 12/06/2004 1:02:55 PM PST by wkdaysoff (68.3% of all Statistics are made up.)
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To: tiamat

It's a long-time "southern culture" joke, now growing into iconic status on FR, thanks to the Undead Thread :-).


74 posted on 12/06/2004 1:03:10 PM PST by Tax-chick (Poison ivy berries are a favorite food of the Downy Woodpecker.)
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To: Lindykim

So it would be wrong to hope that Hitler and Stalin are in hell? Is it wrong to hope that UNREPENTANT evil-doers recieve eternal justice?


75 posted on 12/06/2004 1:03:45 PM PST by MisterRepublican ("I must go. I must be elusive.")
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Comment #76 Removed by Moderator

To: bonfire; Dead Corpse
They'll bless his PEA PICKIN' heart!

Ooh, that's a good one ... can I get that in Latin, DC?

77 posted on 12/06/2004 1:04:27 PM PST by Tax-chick (Poison ivy berries are a favorite food of the Downy Woodpecker.)
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To: bushisdamanin04

http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/12403a.htm


78 posted on 12/06/2004 1:04:39 PM PST by wideawake (God bless our brave soldiers and their Commander in Chief)
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To: Tax-chick

Thanks. But that didn't ring a bell and I looked up "presumption" in the CCC and the definition didn't match what I described. But I appreciate your input.


79 posted on 12/06/2004 1:04:40 PM PST by bushisdamanin04
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To: G32
Glad I'm not a christian then."

Thanks for your comment.

Maybe it's just me, though.

For me, one of the most reassuring things about Christian belief is the assurance -- the blessed assurance -- that God's love is so great, and his desire for the salvation of every soul so expansive, that He is willing to give His own life so that even the most wretched of sinners can be saved.

I take great comfort in knowing that the only non-forgiveable sin is blasphemy against the Holy Spirit.

80 posted on 12/06/2004 1:05:13 PM PST by chs68
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To: Lindykim

"Hope" is irrelevant - all that matters is what is. The only hope that Arafat had was to renounce idolatry and embrace Jesus Christ as savior. He did not do that, choosing instead to live a life of hatred. To hold the belief that Arafat is in hell, all that is required is a belief in God's word.

God / Jesus says that "I am the Way, the Truth, and the Life - no man comes to the Father but by Me.

Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because he has not believed in the name of God's one and only Son. John 3:18-19

The time for hope was when Arafat was alive. Arafat is dead now and beyond hope. He IS in hell, regardless of what I hope.

Condemnation is the natural state of man, unless salvation through Christ intervenes.


81 posted on 12/06/2004 1:05:32 PM PST by Jeff Blogworthy
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To: Tax-chick

Thank you!

Had not realised it was so wide-spread!


82 posted on 12/06/2004 1:06:11 PM PST by tiamat ("Just a Bronze-Age Gal, Trapped in a Techno-World!")
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To: Lindykim

Since some our Marines have undoubtledly already taken over the place, it might not be such a bad place.


83 posted on 12/06/2004 1:06:20 PM PST by Ajnin
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To: Lindykim

Not in my job description and my input is nether requested nor needed. I'm just glad that Arafat is no longer corrupting this world. I'm content with whatever decision the Judge of Judges makes regarding residence in the next world.


84 posted on 12/06/2004 1:06:37 PM PST by Ditto ( No trees were killed in sending this message, but billions of electrons were inconvenienced.)
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To: wkdaysoff
What is purgatory?

Purgation is the process whereby those destined for Heaven put on their wedding clothes.

and where is it mentioned in the Bible?

Define "Bible."

SD

85 posted on 12/06/2004 1:06:55 PM PST by SoothingDave
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To: Nuzcruizer

No. Your soul never "dies" it is not esterminated.

Have you heard the phase, "Damn your soul to hell"

So, you are saying that if you go to heaven, great, you live on forever. If you go to hell, then you "disappear"?
That makes it easy doesn't it?


86 posted on 12/06/2004 1:07:08 PM PST by It's me
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To: Lindykim

How about praying they don't go to Heaven?


87 posted on 12/06/2004 1:07:09 PM PST by matchwood
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To: MisterRepublican
Is it wrong to hope that UNREPENTANT evil-doers receive eternal justice?

We don't have to "hope", because we can be sure that unrepentant evil-doers will receive eternal justice. (Good phrase.) But as people here on Earth, we can never be sure that another person did not repent before his or her death.

88 posted on 12/06/2004 1:07:20 PM PST by Tax-chick (Poison ivy berries are a favorite food of the Downy Woodpecker.)
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Hell isn't eternal damnation. it is the end. It means there is no second chance. It's the final decision. It means death of your soul. The thinking of roasting forever in fire is a missinterpretation.

Not that I want to see this tread turn into bible class, but Sheesh! why don't you all pick up a bible and learn what it all means?
If you are not a Christian, don't bother telling anyone what you think the bible says.
First off, to be a Christian means you follow what the gospel says.


89 posted on 12/06/2004 1:08:30 PM PST by Nuzcruizer
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To: wkdaysoff

Dear wkdaysoff,

"Respectfully, as a Christian who is not Catholic.

"What is purgatory? and where is it mentioned in the Bible?"

Respectfully, as a Christian who is a Catholic, this is a political thread, I think, not a religious thread.

It isn't my interest to offer an apologia for the doctrine of Purgatory. I was merely noting that from what we believe, it's a bit easier to avoid hoping for the damnation of moral monsters.


sitetest


90 posted on 12/06/2004 1:08:47 PM PST by sitetest (If Roe is not overturned, no unborn child will ever be protected in law.)
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To: SoothingDave

I always thought wedding clothes was being clothed with Christ at baptism. Gal 3


91 posted on 12/06/2004 1:08:48 PM PST by texan75010 (You lost - MoveOn...to France, or Canada, or New Zealand, or Germany...take your pick.)
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To: Paved Paradise

I have it on good authority that people definitely go to hell in NYC for stealing someone's taxi when it's raining, leaving less than 20% tip and admitting to having seen Cats on Broadway.


92 posted on 12/06/2004 1:09:30 PM PST by durasell (Friends are so alarming, My lover's never charming...)
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To: Lindykim
In light of 1 Timothy 2:1-4,
It would be wrong to wish for Arafat to go to hell.
It would have been a glorious moment, had he come to repentance. We should pray for our enemies. We do not pray that their evil schemes succeed. We pray that they be kept safe - to give them more time to repent. We pray that they be given wise advise - so that their foolishness does not harm their people. We pray that they seek God - that they would find Him.
But it would be quite foolish to think that Arafat is in Heaven now.
93 posted on 12/06/2004 1:09:41 PM PST by derheimwill (Tagline, Schmagline)
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To: bushisdamanin04

Check the link in post 78. The CCC doesn't always use the terms of the old scholastic-theology books, but I've seen the very words you used in one of my kids' pre-1950 religion books :-).


94 posted on 12/06/2004 1:10:10 PM PST by Tax-chick (Poison ivy berries are a favorite food of the Downy Woodpecker.)
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To: rdb3

Yes, Christ died for all sins. Therefore, the issue is not sin, but what think ye of Christ. Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and ye shall be saved.


95 posted on 12/06/2004 1:10:12 PM PST by Millie
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To: It's me

esterminated = terminated


96 posted on 12/06/2004 1:10:38 PM PST by It's me
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To: Lindykim

I don;t see why not!


97 posted on 12/06/2004 1:11:09 PM PST by funkywbr
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To: Millie
In James it says the demons believe,,,,are they saved?
98 posted on 12/06/2004 1:11:16 PM PST by texan75010 (You lost - MoveOn...to France, or Canada, or New Zealand, or Germany...take your pick.)
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To: Clemenza

Speak for yourself.


99 posted on 12/06/2004 1:11:20 PM PST by loboinok (GUN CONTROL IS HITTING WHAT YOU AIM AT.)
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To: Tax-chick

Correct!


100 posted on 12/06/2004 1:11:45 PM PST by frog_jerk_2004
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