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Atheists, not Muslims, are anti-Christmas
The Australian ^ | 7th December 2004 | Waleed Aly

Posted on 12/07/2004 7:28:32 PM PST by naturalman1975

IT was one of those extremely rare moments when I found myself agreeing with John Howard. Asked what he thought of Sydney Lord Mayor Clover Moore's reported plans to make Sydney's Christmas celebrations low-key and generic, the Prime Minister slammed them as "silly", "ridiculous" and "political correctness from central casting".

Out of sensitivity for a multicultural society, Moore was reported to have said she did not want the celebrations "to push any one religious belief".

In fact, Moore had said nothing of the sort. Quite the contrary: the council is increasing its Christmas celebration spending this year by 50per cent. The words were spoken by Jeff Fisher, chief executive of fast-food chain Oporto following news that the chain had banned a nativity display from its franchise in Hornsby in northern Sydney. Media had put the words in the wrong mouth, but Howard's assessment of them remained true.

Every Christmas it seems we go through this farce. Last year, Stonnington Council in Melbourne removed the word Christmas from its celebrations and prevented speakers at a carols night from quoting the Bible. Some kindergartens and daycare centres have stopped having Christmas parties, instead having end-of-year or fairy parties.

All this, it seems, is being done to include Australia's religious and cultural minorities. This is supposed to foster social harmony and tolerance.

But it doesn't. It does exactly the opposite. When Channel Seven's Sunrise recently ran an interactive segment on the issue, a common theme in the responses of viewers legitimately aggrieved by this emasculation of Christmas was anger towards minority groups -- especially Muslims -- who were cast as cultural warriors against the majority.

Muslims may not celebrate Christmas but it is ridiculous to suspect they are behind this absurd trend. Jesus is a revered, prophetic figure in Islam and, accordingly, we are the least likely to be offended by other religious groups celebrating his birth. An anti-Christmas campaign is more consistent with aggressive atheism than any Islamic imperative.

In fact, I know no member of any religious minority, Muslim or otherwise, who asked for or even wants this. In my experience, religious minorities are far more concerned that their right to religious expression is respected and protected. That, surely, is a right belonging no less to the majority than to minorities.

Driving Christmas underground only erodes this treasured Australian norm and that is far more troubling to me than any Christmas celebration. I find the idea of restraining religious expression substantially more offensive than I find any nativity display. The impoverishment of Christmas is done more on behalf of religious minorities than by them.

This is where political correctness loses the plot; what purports to inspire tolerance instead inspires hostility and intolerance. Diverse, vibrant and tolerant societies are created by allowing eclectic cultural and religious expressions, celebrations included, to flourish. You don't achieve that by surrendering a culture, replacing it with bland meaninglessness.

Denying the Christianity in Christmas or, worse, doing away with it altogether helps no one. This is not multiculturalism. It is anti-culturalism.

Waleed Aly, a Melbourne lawyer, is a member of the Islamic Council of Victoria executive.


TOPICS: Australia/New Zealand
KEYWORDS: antichristian; antichristmas; atheists; christmas; islam; muslims; tyrantunbelievers
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To: OnTheDress
[ You are confused a bit. You are confusing Atheists, people who are religiously anti-religious zealots and atheists, who are people who do not think there is a deity of any kind. Atheists despise Christmas and anything Christian. atheists either celebrate Christmas with the rest of their family or they ignore it. ]

Hmmmmmmm...........
Berkeley right... Nobody can parse minutia like a denizen of Berkeley.. except maybe some at UCLA..

Very Sarte'ian of you.. or even Kierkegaard'ian..
Actually only Professor Irwin Cory could best that display of circular logic..

"Marriage is like a bank account. You put it in, you take it out, you lose interest." -- Professor Irwin Cory

151 posted on 12/08/2004 12:20:52 PM PST by hosepipe (This Propaganda has been edited to include not a small amount of Hyperbole..)
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To: kphockey2
I stand by ariamne. I know her personally and she is definately no troll. She may be new to FR but she knows her stuff.

I'll second that, my friend. The trolls are those defending America's savage, bloodthirsty enemies.
152 posted on 12/08/2004 12:25:11 PM PST by broadsword (When Islam creeps into a human society, oppression, misogyny and terror come hard on its heels.)
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To: naturalman1975

153 posted on 12/08/2004 12:25:46 PM PST by Tealc (Mail me if you want on or off my Jaffa, Kree! ping list)
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To: AdmSmith

Look who's here. I might have to pull my see-thru burkah out the closet.
LOL!


154 posted on 12/08/2004 12:30:59 PM PST by nuconvert (Everyone has a photographic memory. Some don't have film.)
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To: Tired of Taxes

---
We're not the ones slamming planes into buildings or putting Christians in prison in the Middle East.
---

You are, however, the ones who adhere to the official 'religion' of the greatest mass murdering political ideology in the history of the world: Communism.


155 posted on 12/08/2004 12:41:51 PM PST by frgoff
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To: ariamne
No problem!

Glad I could be of service.

-good times, G.J.P.(Jr.)

156 posted on 12/08/2004 1:09:20 PM PST by Do not dub me shapka broham
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To: nuconvert

I don't think its false. I may be new to FR, but I've spent enough time debating on yahoo message boards (a great waste of time, now that I've discovered there is intelligent life in cyber space here at FR) not to recognize a phony like you. You try to make Islam an ally of Christianity for a racist purpose. It's only a matter of time before you bring out the jewish conspiracy garbage. Face it, you're busted.


157 posted on 12/08/2004 3:31:46 PM PST by ariamne (reformed liberal)
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To: kphockey2

You've got my back, kp. love ya!


158 posted on 12/08/2004 3:32:44 PM PST by ariamne (reformed liberal)
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To: broadsword

Just read your profile; count me as one of your fans. I have seen this so many times on Yahoo boards; Islamic defenders who dance all over the real crux of the issue; which is Islam in its current incarnation is the scourge of civilized people worldwide. Period. No apologies.


159 posted on 12/08/2004 3:41:45 PM PST by ariamne (reformed liberal)
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To: ariamne

Just read your profile. I am so glad you are here. God bless you. With your kind permission, I would like to add you to my good guys list.


160 posted on 12/08/2004 3:51:00 PM PST by broadsword (When Islam creeps into a human society, oppression, misogyny and terror come hard on its heels.)
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To: ariamne
Perhaps you should do some reading. In Islam, Jesus is revered as a great prophet. On the Iraqi Blogs at Christmas, they always post Seasons Greetings.

You are mixing up radical Islam with the real Islam which IS quite compatible with Christianity. After all, it's just the last several decades where there has been a problem.

161 posted on 12/08/2004 4:23:40 PM PST by McGavin999 (George Soros just learned a very expensive lesson-America can't be bought.)
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To: broadsword

To be added to your good guys (or girls) list is truly an honor. Many thanks. And thank God for Protest Warriors who led me to Free Republic in the first place! (and while I'm at it, thanks to the lunacy of the liberal left. Even a koolaid drinker like me HAD to see through the fog.)


162 posted on 12/08/2004 4:26:02 PM PST by ariamne (reformed liberal)
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To: McGavin999

"You are mixing up radical Islam with the real Islam which IS quite compatible with Christianity."

How is it compatible?


163 posted on 12/08/2004 4:29:34 PM PST by velocityguy
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To: velocityguy
Both religions love God and seek to please Him.

After all, isn't that the entire purpose of religion?

164 posted on 12/08/2004 4:30:41 PM PST by McGavin999 (George Soros just learned a very expensive lesson-America can't be bought.)
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To: McGavin999

Did you read Quran? Just curious.


165 posted on 12/08/2004 4:33:21 PM PST by velocityguy
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To: McGavin999

I am open to recommendations, but I have read fairly extensively on the subject. Just to name a few, I've read two books by Steve Emerson, Fighting Terrorism by Benjamin Netanyahu, Militant Islam Reaches American by Daniel Pipes, as well as numerous articles from various sources. I've also read Edward Said and a few others to get a counter balance. Please do not assume that because I'm new to FR that I'm new to the study of the danger of Islam. I am sure you meant no offense.


166 posted on 12/08/2004 4:33:49 PM PST by ariamne (reformed liberal)
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To: McGavin999

You neglected to mention Judaism. Do Jews not also love God and seek to please him? And by the way, insinuating that I don't read ("you should try reading") is hardly a prelude to reasoned, coherent debate.


167 posted on 12/08/2004 4:40:00 PM PST by ariamne (reformed liberal)
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To: velocityguy
Did you read Quran?

No way. Nobody who has read it could post the things he does.

I HAVE read it. I am studying Arabic to better know my country's enemies. These Islamodefenders do not know what they are doing. So sad that their feeding the bears will get other good people killed.
168 posted on 12/08/2004 4:53:39 PM PST by broadsword (When Islam creeps into a human society, oppression, misogyny and terror come hard on its heels.)
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To: ariamne

But Jews do not seek to please God by slaughtering innocent women and children and oppressing/honor-killing women. There is no comparison, but then, the Jews do not worship and seek to please a (false) bloodthirsty Moon god or worship a meteorite in Mecca. Nor does the Jewish religion make it a virtue to lie to the infidel.

The moral relativism of these cowardly appeasers would please Allah if he actually existed.


169 posted on 12/08/2004 4:57:33 PM PST by broadsword (When Islam creeps into a human society, oppression, misogyny and terror come hard on its heels.)
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To: Prime Choice; Ragnar54; hosepipe; spinestein; nuconvert; Tired of Taxes; naturalman1975

http://www.m-w.com/cgi-bin/dictionary?book=Dictionary&va=atheist

Pronunciation: 'A-thE-ist
Function: noun
: one who believes that there is no deity

The language continues to be twisted.
Like ‘gay’ = ‘homosexual’. When someone writes
“An atheist hates anything Christian”;
they are not correct.

The English Language does not have a word for
“Jesus-hating -- Christian-loathing –
Ten-Commandment-trashing – ACLU-loving --
anti-religious zealots.

Maybe we could call them HACORs (Hates
Anything Christian Or Religious)

While HACORs may be atheists, they
certainly hate Jesus, Jesus’ Father,
Christians, evangelicals, the Ten
Commandments, etc.

atheists are only “one who believes
that there is no deity”. They don't
necessarily hate anything.

Remember C. S. Lewis started out as an atheist.


170 posted on 12/08/2004 5:03:00 PM PST by Cyber Ninja (His legacy is a stain on the dress.)
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To: broadsword

"So sad that their feeding the bears will get other good people killed."

Very true. The people that say that "islam is peaceful" must be definitely someone that falls into these four catagories -

1. They have not read the violent Book of Jihad aka Quran,
2. They are blind to the murderous history of the Islam
3. They are trying to be politically correct by pacifying Islamists at the expense of the rest of the Americans
4. They may not have brains and are just plain old fools who will never understand the reality or think rationally.

Because of people like these, the rest of the world is paying a heavy price. I wonder how long these pacifists of Islam would survive if they are to live under Sharia law like the one in Afghanistan. May be they should visit http://rawa.org for a preview of what its like under strict Islam.


171 posted on 12/08/2004 5:06:15 PM PST by velocityguy
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To: velocityguy

5. And some, because of cowardice or just plain lack of real-time experience, think that every animal can be tamed by a bowl of milk and a warm hug.

I just thank God that there are Americans like you around. I feel less alone that way. I love this beautiful country and do not want to lose it to the savage primitives.


172 posted on 12/08/2004 5:12:20 PM PST by broadsword (When Islam creeps into a human society, oppression, misogyny and terror come hard on its heels.)
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To: ariamne

"You try to make Islam an ally of Christianity for a racist purpose. It's only a matter of time before you bring out the jewish conspiracy garbage."

? Care to expand on this?

"Face it, you're busted."

Oh, really? You mean you've been able to detect & reveal something in a couple of hours in order to "bust" me, that no one's been able to do in 21 months and 13,200 posts? Wow. Delusions of grandeur, maybe.
Okay, I'm holding my breath.


173 posted on 12/08/2004 5:22:56 PM PST by nuconvert (Everyone has a photographic memory. Some don't have film.)
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To: ariamne
There is NO question that there is compatibility between Judism and Christianity. That's not what we are discussing here. All three are Abrahimic religions. Do you think that God did that in error?

The simple fact is, we had better all try to figure out a way to get along. The ONE thing that is common to all three is the love of God.

Yes, there are fanatics in the Muslim religion, but if you will recall, there were also fanatics in the Christian religion too.

Israel is located in the middle east, they are surrounded by Muslim countries. Before Khomeni took over in Iran, the people of Iran were friends of Israel. Cyrus, the ancient king of Persia was the best friend the Jews ever had.

This hatred, this division, is a man made thing and it has to be stopped. It will not be stopped by returning hatred with hatred. Are some Muslims evil? Yes, of course they are, as are some Christians and some Jews. But nothing is solved by tarring everyone with one brush. There are more than 1 billion Muslims on this planet. We had better figure out a way to seperate the good from the bad in all religions and do what we can to get along with each other.

174 posted on 12/08/2004 5:24:31 PM PST by McGavin999 (George Soros just learned a very expensive lesson-America can't be bought.)
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To: broadsword

And thank God for Americans like you who don't flinch at the truth. Keep speaking out.


175 posted on 12/08/2004 5:26:55 PM PST by ariamne (reformed liberal)
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To: nuconvert

LOL!

You were busted long ago, and it just keeps getting more and more obvious as to just who and what you are.


176 posted on 12/08/2004 5:28:59 PM PST by broadsword (When Islam creeps into a human society, oppression, misogyny and terror come hard on its heels.)
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To: broadsword

Wow, really?


177 posted on 12/08/2004 5:34:51 PM PST by nuconvert (Everyone has a photographic memory. Some don't have film.)
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To: McGavin999
Yes, there are fanatics in the Muslim religion, but if you will recall, there were also fanatics in the Christian religion too.

Notice my added emphasis in your sentence. This is where defenders of mohammedanism go wrong.

For anyone who missed it somehow, Christianity had a Reformation quite some time ago.

The world is still waiting for that to happen in the death-cult known as islam.

When islam is purged of its madmen, then and only then will it be taken seriously as a "religion of peace".

178 posted on 12/08/2004 5:44:20 PM PST by texasbluebell
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To: nuconvert

The other day, this guy was mentioning how Quran aka the Book of Jihad mentions everything that a Human Being should abide by. And he goes on saying, "Allah has created everything. Infact, Allah created the mountains as pillars at strategic places on earth so that the earth is always balanced". After hearing that, I gave up on all hope in convincing an "anti-infidel" to be a bit rational. Well, I should not be blaming the guy. I should be blaming the Book of Jihad for misleading all the Islamists with teachings like the one above. I will be glad to provide the reference if someone has any doubts about these "pillars" on which this earth is supported according to the Book of Jihad.

So the point is, nuconvert seems to be one of those CAIR trained Islamists who believes like the guy mentioning above with out even thinking for once. Well, rationality is NOT a concept in Islam anyway. The only concept/prescription is submitting to Islam. If someone questions it, they are dead meat!!! Ofcourse, again killing is prescribed in the Book of Jihad!!! nuconvert should go ask an imam at http://islam.tc/ask-imam/index.php

And to others looking for some laughter before they go to bed tonight, they can read the Imam's responses to questions posted at the website http://islam.tc/ask-imam/index.php


179 posted on 12/08/2004 5:47:13 PM PST by velocityguy
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To: velocityguy

"nuconvert seems to be one of those CAIR trained Islamists "

You obviously haven't read my posts in the past.
Try reading, before you embarrass yourself more.


180 posted on 12/08/2004 5:54:53 PM PST by nuconvert (Everyone has a photographic memory. Some don't have film.)
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To: McGavin999

It is disingenous to suggest that any of the other religions practiced in the world today spawn acts of terrorist barbarism as brutal as those coming out of the islamic faith. And the hatred that some might feel toward islam pales in comparison to the hatred coming from islam towards other religious groups.

No, it is time for civilized muslims to clean up their own back yards, start policing themselves and put an end to this cycle of barbaric violence.


181 posted on 12/08/2004 5:55:20 PM PST by ariamne (reformed liberal)
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To: nuconvert
Dude, I read your posts very well. You are really trying very hard to be as deceptive as possible against a non-Muslim, like every other anti-infidel I have known, by portraying yourself as someone who is not a radical Islamist. But there is nothing as such. You know it and I know it. Infact, for every islamist, it is ordained by the moongod to fight in the way of the moongod either by force or by deception.

Those moongod worshippers who try very very hard to convince the religion of the Book of Jihad is very peaceful are the once embarrassing themselves, not me!!!
182 posted on 12/08/2004 6:04:21 PM PST by velocityguy
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To: texasbluebell
That was my point. But in the meantime, it's not helpful to attack those who are attempting to do something about it. Remember, it's not like here where it's safe to just express yourself. Even those who live in the US frequently have family who do not.

More and more, voices are being raised in spite of the danger. Recently, a number of reknown scholars signed a petition asking the UN to condemn terror and to let the UN know that it is NOT Islamic. That was an extremely courageous stand for them to take. Those who speak up are frequenly silenced forever.

Islam can only go through that reformation once the terrorists and fanatics are beat back enough that those who speak up can have a reasonable expectation of continuing to live.

183 posted on 12/08/2004 6:04:53 PM PST by McGavin999 (George Soros just learned a very expensive lesson-America can't be bought.)
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To: nuconvert

I fear you will have to keep holding it. I'm not the only one here who sees through you, so I'm sure you can find someone else to spar with.

Quite simply, I don't find debate with you particularly stimulating or any great challenge. Twenty-four hours of your non-sequitors is quite enough for me. You do seem to have a lot of pent up anger. Not healthy you know. Try laughing at yourself now and then; you really are not as impressive as you may think you are. Au revoir.


184 posted on 12/08/2004 6:05:52 PM PST by ariamne (reformed liberal)
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To: nuconvert

Bending down five times a day by the way is a good exercise.
but wife beating and honor killing are not!!!!


185 posted on 12/08/2004 6:06:10 PM PST by velocityguy
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To: ariamne
So, because the other religions, which are older, have already resolved their problems, you think it's not necessary to have any form of understanding while the third is going through it's travails?

I think those who were burned at the stake and those who were tortured on the wheel, or in an Iron Maiden probably thought the priests during the inquisition were terrorists too. People lived in absolute terror that they would not be picked up by the Christian clerics and dragged before the Grand Inquisitor for their heresy.

186 posted on 12/08/2004 6:08:40 PM PST by McGavin999 (George Soros just learned a very expensive lesson-America can't be bought.)
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To: ariamne
I agree. The "peaceful Muslim" knows who the terrorists are and where they are.
It is time for them to start policing their own or suffer the consequences.

I for one, am sick if the "peaceful Muslim" looking in the other direction while the Christians and Jews die to save them and their "religion".

187 posted on 12/08/2004 6:24:38 PM PST by Diva Betsy Ross (I am not NOT PC.. And Proud of it!: Merry Christmas! Happy Hanukkah!)
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To: nuconvert

Good Point !
Anyone vaguely familiar with the history of the Conservative movement knows what a critical and pivotal role William F. Buckley and his National Review Magazine were to the eventual success of our movement. The two pillars of Conservative thought that he firmly established

1. Conservative ideas and philosophy are demonstrably, intellectually superior to liberal thought, and we can prove that by engaging liberals in debate and defeating them.

2. There is no place in the Conservative movement for bigots, anti-Semites and racists. Blacks, Jews, Muslims, Hispanics are not only welcome in the conservative movement, but they are to be sought out and encouraged to join our movement.

For precisely the same reason that William F. Buckley and the National Review drew a bright line between Conservatism and prejudice; the Free Republic, as one of the most visible torch bearers for today’s conservative movement, must take a stance against anti-Muslim bigotry on its pages.

If you are posting hateful and vicious anti-Muslim remarks then you are in direct opposition to the beliefs of William F. Buckley, Ronald Reagan, our president and virtually every conservative writer commentator and thinker of note and you are indirectly undermining our cause.


188 posted on 12/08/2004 6:33:33 PM PST by Jonah Johansen
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To: ariamne

By the way, Welcome to FR.
"there is intelligent life in cyber space here at FR"
INTRESTING, my exact feeling also, when I first started coming here.
One thing I like about FR is how many of the people who post her have studied and thought about the issues a great deal and the variety of insights that produces. Liberals tend to all sound alike after awhile, like magpies reciting DNC talking points.

When you read posts from someone like NUCONVERT on controversial issues, your first reaction may be I disagree with them, they must not be one of us. I think if you research their posts over the last year you will see they are very much "one of us". In some cases I believe they are more conservative then some of the people who criticize them. I personally think the anti-Muslim animus some people display on FR is harmful, and at odds with the general philosophy of FR, the Republican Party and the conservative movement as a whole.
If you find yourself accusing someone of being a phony conservative, when they are echoing precisely the often stated beliefs of George Bush himself, then I would say maybe it is time for you to step back and review your own position on these issues. You may be right, George Bush may be wrong, but he is certainly a good and faithful conservative.
Again welcome to FR and to the quest for the Truth, which is our common bond here on FR.


189 posted on 12/08/2004 7:06:27 PM PST by Jonah Johansen
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To: Jonah Johansen; Valin; Chemist_Geek; Jim Robinson; AdmSmith; Old Student; McGavin999; ...

Thank you. Absolutely right!

And that deserves a PING to others ..................


190 posted on 12/08/2004 7:06:33 PM PST by nuconvert (Everyone has a photographic memory. Some don't have film.)
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To: Protagoras

The Real face?
That's kind of a tough one to give a simple answer to.
Are you talking about Sunni , Shia, Sufi, Wahhabi...

A good place to start would be
The Encyclopaedia of the Orient
http://i-cias.com/e.o/index.htm


191 posted on 12/08/2004 8:14:09 PM PST by Valin (Out Of My Mind; Back In Five Minutes)
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To: Jonah Johansen

Conservative ideas and philosophy are demonstrably, intellectually superior to liberal thought, and we can prove that by engaging liberals in debate and defeating them.

I used to love watching him chop the left into little pieces on Firing Line. And his interviews with Malcom Muggridge were not to be missed.
FYI He's just published his auto-biography. I haven't gotten it yet but maybe santa will give it to be, as I've been a very good boy this year....well I have
(That's my story and I'm sticking with it!)

If you are posting hateful and vicious anti-Muslim remarks then you are in direct opposition to the beliefs of William F. Buckley, Ronald Reagan, our president and virtually every conservative writer commentator and thinker of note and you are indirectly undermining our cause.

I've actually had people say that the president secretly believes we are at war with Islam, but he can't come out and say it because it not PC. When asked to show one thing that leads them to belive this the silence is deafening.


192 posted on 12/08/2004 8:34:30 PM PST by Valin (Out Of My Mind; Back In Five Minutes)
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To: Valin
It's not tough at all. Either they believe in the Koran or they don't.

If they do, they are advocating and perhaps commiting murder and other evil things.

If they don't, they aren't really Muslims. It's simple.

193 posted on 12/08/2004 9:00:38 PM PST by Protagoras (Christmas is not a secular holiday)
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To: ariamne

Yep. There are bad Hindus, Buddhists, Jews and Christians DESPITE those peaceful religions, and there are good Muslims DESPITE that primitive, bloodthirsty death-cult.

But there is no moral equivalency between Mohammadism and any legitimate religion.


194 posted on 12/08/2004 9:40:19 PM PST by broadsword (When Islam creeps into a human society, oppression, misogyny and terror come hard on its heels.)
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To: Protagoras

It's not tough at all. Either they believe in the Koran or they don't.
If they do, they are advocating and perhaps commiting murder and other evil things.

"And seek not occasions for mischief in the land: for Allah loves not those who do mischief"

Beware of excesses in matters of religion. For, as a matter of fact, those before you were destroyed by religious immoderation"

"He who kills himself with anything, Allah will torment him with that in the fire of Hell"

"...If anyone killed a person not in retaliation for murder or to spread mischief in the land, it would be as if he killed the whole of mankind. And (likewise) if anyone saved a life, it would be as if he saved the whole of mankind"


If you want we can swap verses until the cows come home.


195 posted on 12/08/2004 9:40:41 PM PST by Valin (Out Of My Mind; Back In Five Minutes)
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To: nuconvert

"nuconvert seems to be one of those CAIR trained Islamists"

Actually he is exactly right.


196 posted on 12/08/2004 9:41:09 PM PST by broadsword (When Islam creeps into a human society, oppression, misogyny and terror come hard on its heels.)
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To: naturalman1975

197 posted on 12/08/2004 9:45:27 PM PST by timestax
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To: McGavin999
Islam can only go through that reformation...

Impossible, FRiend. All of Islam is based on the "holy" Koran, which cannot be reformed, altered or criticized upon pain of death. All the misogyny, primitive thinking, oppression, slavery, murder and terror comes directly from the Koran. I have read the thing.

ISLAM CANNOT BE REFORMED, ONLY ABANDONED... But that also carries a mandatory death sentence according to Islam.
198 posted on 12/08/2004 9:45:51 PM PST by broadsword (When Islam creeps into a human society, oppression, misogyny and terror come hard on its heels.)
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To: nuconvert

You DO of course understand that all REAL freepers and ALL real true blue Americans never say anything remotely positive about Islam? And anyone who does is a traitor, like this guy. (never did trust him)


“All of us here today understand this: We do not fight Islam, we fight against evil.”

- President Bush, November 6, 2001


199 posted on 12/08/2004 9:49:16 PM PST by Valin (Out Of My Mind; Back In Five Minutes)
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To: nuconvert
I believe this thread (and I can direct you to others much worse) reveals an increased problem on FR. It seems there are an increased number of newbies (in particular) who don't understand that when William F. Buckley proclaimed that racists, bigots and anti-Semites had no place in the Conservative Movement or the Republican Party, it was to try to remove the "stain" put there during the 50's and 60's.

I tend to agree. There are a lot of newbies around lately who seem to be trying to live up to the liberal stereotypes of conservatives.

200 posted on 12/08/2004 9:54:13 PM PST by Modernman (Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy. --Benjamin Franklin)
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