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Atheists, not Muslims, are anti-Christmas
The Australian ^ | 7th December 2004 | Waleed Aly

Posted on 12/07/2004 7:28:32 PM PST by naturalman1975

IT was one of those extremely rare moments when I found myself agreeing with John Howard. Asked what he thought of Sydney Lord Mayor Clover Moore's reported plans to make Sydney's Christmas celebrations low-key and generic, the Prime Minister slammed them as "silly", "ridiculous" and "political correctness from central casting".

Out of sensitivity for a multicultural society, Moore was reported to have said she did not want the celebrations "to push any one religious belief".

In fact, Moore had said nothing of the sort. Quite the contrary: the council is increasing its Christmas celebration spending this year by 50per cent. The words were spoken by Jeff Fisher, chief executive of fast-food chain Oporto following news that the chain had banned a nativity display from its franchise in Hornsby in northern Sydney. Media had put the words in the wrong mouth, but Howard's assessment of them remained true.

Every Christmas it seems we go through this farce. Last year, Stonnington Council in Melbourne removed the word Christmas from its celebrations and prevented speakers at a carols night from quoting the Bible. Some kindergartens and daycare centres have stopped having Christmas parties, instead having end-of-year or fairy parties.

All this, it seems, is being done to include Australia's religious and cultural minorities. This is supposed to foster social harmony and tolerance.

But it doesn't. It does exactly the opposite. When Channel Seven's Sunrise recently ran an interactive segment on the issue, a common theme in the responses of viewers legitimately aggrieved by this emasculation of Christmas was anger towards minority groups -- especially Muslims -- who were cast as cultural warriors against the majority.

Muslims may not celebrate Christmas but it is ridiculous to suspect they are behind this absurd trend. Jesus is a revered, prophetic figure in Islam and, accordingly, we are the least likely to be offended by other religious groups celebrating his birth. An anti-Christmas campaign is more consistent with aggressive atheism than any Islamic imperative.

In fact, I know no member of any religious minority, Muslim or otherwise, who asked for or even wants this. In my experience, religious minorities are far more concerned that their right to religious expression is respected and protected. That, surely, is a right belonging no less to the majority than to minorities.

Driving Christmas underground only erodes this treasured Australian norm and that is far more troubling to me than any Christmas celebration. I find the idea of restraining religious expression substantially more offensive than I find any nativity display. The impoverishment of Christmas is done more on behalf of religious minorities than by them.

This is where political correctness loses the plot; what purports to inspire tolerance instead inspires hostility and intolerance. Diverse, vibrant and tolerant societies are created by allowing eclectic cultural and religious expressions, celebrations included, to flourish. You don't achieve that by surrendering a culture, replacing it with bland meaninglessness.

Denying the Christianity in Christmas or, worse, doing away with it altogether helps no one. This is not multiculturalism. It is anti-culturalism.

Waleed Aly, a Melbourne lawyer, is a member of the Islamic Council of Victoria executive.


TOPICS: Australia/New Zealand
KEYWORDS: antichristian; antichristmas; atheists; christmas; islam; muslims; tyrantunbelievers
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To: nuconvert; BayouCoyote; Stopislamnow; Wolfhound777; weenie; MissAmericanPie; expatguy; ...
The author is muslim. He ought to know if he finds Christmas offensive. And he doesn't.

And he, like you, know that in your Koran it says it is a virtue to lie to the infidel to assist in the bloodthirsty march of Islam against human civilization.
141 posted on 12/08/2004 12:03:51 PM PST by broadsword (When Islam creeps into a human society, oppression, misogyny and terror come hard on its heels.)
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To: Protagoras

"What on earth does that have to do with wishing them a good holiday which they don't believe in."

Possibly because wishing them a good holiday that they know YOU believe in might help them feel like maybe someday listening to you tell them about that holiday? About why it is important to you? Might not work out that way, but it also might. Worth a try.


142 posted on 12/08/2004 12:04:58 PM PST by Old Student (WRM, MSgt, USAF (Ret.))
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To: ariamne
[ But maybe you should get to know some jews in your community, I can assure you they don't have horns! Be at peace. ]

LoL..
Not true, some Jews are extremely horny.. even the Hasidim..

143 posted on 12/08/2004 12:06:54 PM PST by hosepipe (This Propaganda has been edited to include not a small amount of Hyperbole..)
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To: ariamne
Yes. You are right. Lying is a virtue in Islam. But then, so is murdering innocent women and children. You get 72 virgins to rape for that.

But, really! What serious religion is all about the man's penis? What is this Allah character, the grand pimp in the sky?
144 posted on 12/08/2004 12:07:51 PM PST by broadsword (When Islam creeps into a human society, oppression, misogyny and terror come hard on its heels.)
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To: Old Student
Possibly because wishing them a good holiday that they know YOU believe in might help them feel like maybe someday listening to you tell them about that holiday?

Nice sentiment, but they already know what it's about, and the ones I am talking about have rejected it.

Might not work out that way, but it also might. Worth a try.

You and I have different views on the proper way to evangelize. Let me ask you if you are making the point that the reason for wishing atheists and Jews and Muslims a Merry Christmas is to set them up for conversion?

145 posted on 12/08/2004 12:11:12 PM PST by Protagoras (Christmas is not a secular holiday)
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To: nuconvert
So, you just assume that the author is some sort of radical and liar because he's muslim?

Sounds like a safe assumption, and, one would want to err on the side of caution with the sort of folks who lie and murder and oppress the innocent as an essential part of their seventh-century death cult.
146 posted on 12/08/2004 12:12:05 PM PST by broadsword (When Islam creeps into a human society, oppression, misogyny and terror come hard on its heels.)
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To: Old Student

"Peace on Earth, good will to men, all that stuff?"

lol. Good Luck using that line. You'd think it might be obvious.
Sometimes I just have to laugh.


147 posted on 12/08/2004 12:14:47 PM PST by nuconvert (Everyone has a photographic memory. Some don't have film.)
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To: Melas

Like I said, atheists are NOT the ones slitting throats and blowing up innocent women and children. Atheists know how to live in modern civilized society. The Muzzies and their wacked-out, misogynistic, primitive death-cult are the problem.


148 posted on 12/08/2004 12:15:15 PM PST by broadsword (When Islam creeps into a human society, oppression, misogyny and terror come hard on its heels.)
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To: ariamne
Yes, I read the posts. What am I supposed to be convinced of? ALL sects of islam make me squeamish. I don't blame the people, they cannot help it that they are brainwashed by a series of cults that mask as a great religion. But I also know not to trust them for the same reason. Are you muslim?

I am starting to really like you! The problem with ALL forms of Islam is that they follow the Koran, which is a vile tome of violence, hatred, lies, misogyny, terror and hatred. And yes, IT is a mohammedan.
149 posted on 12/08/2004 12:18:23 PM PST by broadsword (When Islam creeps into a human society, oppression, misogyny and terror come hard on its heels.)
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To: RoarkMan
I know most atheists are anti-christian but for the record: I am not. I loath my fellow atheist and their victim mentality.

Most are probably not like that. They just don't believe anything.
150 posted on 12/08/2004 12:20:11 PM PST by broadsword (When Islam creeps into a human society, oppression, misogyny and terror come hard on its heels.)
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To: OnTheDress
[ You are confused a bit. You are confusing Atheists, people who are religiously anti-religious zealots and atheists, who are people who do not think there is a deity of any kind. Atheists despise Christmas and anything Christian. atheists either celebrate Christmas with the rest of their family or they ignore it. ]

Hmmmmmmm...........
Berkeley right... Nobody can parse minutia like a denizen of Berkeley.. except maybe some at UCLA..

Very Sarte'ian of you.. or even Kierkegaard'ian..
Actually only Professor Irwin Cory could best that display of circular logic..

"Marriage is like a bank account. You put it in, you take it out, you lose interest." -- Professor Irwin Cory

151 posted on 12/08/2004 12:20:52 PM PST by hosepipe (This Propaganda has been edited to include not a small amount of Hyperbole..)
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To: kphockey2
I stand by ariamne. I know her personally and she is definately no troll. She may be new to FR but she knows her stuff.

I'll second that, my friend. The trolls are those defending America's savage, bloodthirsty enemies.
152 posted on 12/08/2004 12:25:11 PM PST by broadsword (When Islam creeps into a human society, oppression, misogyny and terror come hard on its heels.)
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To: naturalman1975

153 posted on 12/08/2004 12:25:46 PM PST by Tealc (Mail me if you want on or off my Jaffa, Kree! ping list)
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To: AdmSmith

Look who's here. I might have to pull my see-thru burkah out the closet.
LOL!


154 posted on 12/08/2004 12:30:59 PM PST by nuconvert (Everyone has a photographic memory. Some don't have film.)
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To: Tired of Taxes

---
We're not the ones slamming planes into buildings or putting Christians in prison in the Middle East.
---

You are, however, the ones who adhere to the official 'religion' of the greatest mass murdering political ideology in the history of the world: Communism.


155 posted on 12/08/2004 12:41:51 PM PST by frgoff
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To: ariamne
No problem!

Glad I could be of service.

-good times, G.J.P.(Jr.)

156 posted on 12/08/2004 1:09:20 PM PST by Do not dub me shapka broham
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To: nuconvert

I don't think its false. I may be new to FR, but I've spent enough time debating on yahoo message boards (a great waste of time, now that I've discovered there is intelligent life in cyber space here at FR) not to recognize a phony like you. You try to make Islam an ally of Christianity for a racist purpose. It's only a matter of time before you bring out the jewish conspiracy garbage. Face it, you're busted.


157 posted on 12/08/2004 3:31:46 PM PST by ariamne (reformed liberal)
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To: kphockey2

You've got my back, kp. love ya!


158 posted on 12/08/2004 3:32:44 PM PST by ariamne (reformed liberal)
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To: broadsword

Just read your profile; count me as one of your fans. I have seen this so many times on Yahoo boards; Islamic defenders who dance all over the real crux of the issue; which is Islam in its current incarnation is the scourge of civilized people worldwide. Period. No apologies.


159 posted on 12/08/2004 3:41:45 PM PST by ariamne (reformed liberal)
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To: ariamne

Just read your profile. I am so glad you are here. God bless you. With your kind permission, I would like to add you to my good guys list.


160 posted on 12/08/2004 3:51:00 PM PST by broadsword (When Islam creeps into a human society, oppression, misogyny and terror come hard on its heels.)
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