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Fringe On The U.S. Flag What Does It Mean? Admiralty Courts in Colorado?
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Posted on 12/07/2004 7:38:13 PM PST by Pharmboy

Patriots are subjected to much ridicule when they object to [Admiralty flag] the flag that appears in every government office and courtroom in the land. That flag is the United States flag... with one seemingly minor cosmetic difference - a knotted golden fringe on three sides.

Government officials and judges adamantly refuse requests to remove the gold fringed flag and replace it with the constitutional flag of the United States as defined in 4 U.S.C. Section 1,2, and 3 - which has NO fringe.

Why should anyone be concerned about this apparently innocent decorative feature? What difference does it make?

The difference is that the flag that is displayed is legal notice, to all who enter, of the type of law that holds jurisdiction. The constitutional United States flag signifies common law jurisdiction.

The gold fringed United States flag is the Admiralty or War flag which denotes Admiralty or martial law.

Hogwash, you say? Is there no Admiralty Court claiming jurisdiction in America except in matters that occur on the high seas? Think again! Just as the founders of this country railed against the King for extending Admiralty law to the lands of the Colonies, so are those few patriots who have paid attention to the corruption of our legal system, raising a hue and a cry over the current usurpers of jurisprudence.

Rocky Mountain News Wed. May 22, 1996 Legal Notices Section The legal notices here displayed concern property seized by Federal agents as booty under Admiralty law. Notice is required so that anyone who might have an interest in the property seized has opportunity to seek to protect his interest.

One would not be wise to attempt this, though. Most likely, any excuse will be used to allege that the party claiming interest in the property was a party to the alleged offense that resulted in the original seizure.

The allegation is enough to justify the taking of property - under Admiralty law guilt is presumed. The claimant might well lose other property not yet in the hands of these landgoing pirates, even though no actual conviction of any offense is ever entered. Check your local paper's legal notices. Look into the cases cited and see if any conviction occurs - or if any charges were even filed - against the persons whose property was seized.

Colorado is a long ways from the ocean. Admiralty law is farther still from the common law recognized under Federal and State constitutions.

You decide... are these patriots kooks? Or have we been blind to the tyranny that is even now upon us?

More Evidence on the Flag Issue Our official courts today are all operating under admiralty jurisdiction, except the court of Claims in Washington D.C. which remains under the common law...You can easily identify an admiralty court by noting the presence of a gold fringed flag in the court room. This is a military flag which denotes admiralty jurisdiction within that court... " Sizes and Ocassions for Display

National flags listed below are for indoor display and for use in ceremonies and parades. For these purposes the United States flag will be rayon banner cloth, trimmed on three sides with golden fringe, 2.5 inches wide. It will be the same size as the flags displayed or carried with it.

Aurthorization for indoor display. Each military courtoom." Army Regulation 840-10, October 1 1979

Admiralty and Maritime, Military Law


TOPICS: Constitution/Conservatism; Culture/Society; Extended News; Government
KEYWORDS: admiraltycourt; aluminumfringe; conspiracy; continuityofgovt; fbipolice; fema; fringeonflag; keeperofoddknowledge; lunaticfringe; martiallaw; oldglory; paranoidjunk; renoldswrapfringe; soverignity; tinfoil; urbanlegend; uttergarbage
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To: Pharmboy

Oh no! You are one of THEM! :-)


51 posted on 12/07/2004 8:20:45 PM PST by Army Air Corps (Half a league, half a league rode the MSM into the valley of obscurity)
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To: Doctor Raoul

Who's Bev Harris? I don't recognize the name.


52 posted on 12/07/2004 8:21:14 PM PST by derheimwill (Love is a person, not an emotion.)
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To: Army Air Corps

If you would be most kind to look out your window now you will see and hear several dark olive helicopters. Wait for instructions. RESISTANCE IS FUTILE...


53 posted on 12/07/2004 8:22:53 PM PST by Pharmboy (Listen...you can still hear the old media sobbing.)
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To: Doctor Raoul

Aha! So you admit the fringed flag is tied into the Admiralty Law Conspiracy to deny African Americans the vote...


54 posted on 12/07/2004 8:25:20 PM PST by Pharmboy (Listen...you can still hear the old media sobbing.)
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To: Pharmboy

LOL! This thread is reminding me of the movie Conspiracy Theory.


55 posted on 12/07/2004 8:26:01 PM PST by Army Air Corps (Half a league, half a league rode the MSM into the valley of obscurity)
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To: Wallace T.
It seemed to crop up in the 1980s in Posse Comitatus circles...

Who you calling a pussy communist?

56 posted on 12/07/2004 8:26:30 PM PST by Doctor Raoul ( ----- HERTZ: We're #1 ----- AVIS: We're #2 We Try Harder ----- CBS: We're #3 We LIE Harder)
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To: Pharmboy

Admiralty law is expressly acknowledged by the Constitution and is not antithetical to the common law. Admiralty jurisdiction is one of the jurisdictions expressly conferred on the federal - common law - courts. Admiralty law rarely has anything to do with martial law, but mostly has to do with what happens when a ship is damaged or a cargo is screwed up.


57 posted on 12/07/2004 8:26:41 PM PST by colorado tanker (The People Have Spoken)
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To: jim_trent
Don't forget the significance of an eagle on the top of the flagpole.

Or the bullet and match.

58 posted on 12/07/2004 8:32:36 PM PST by FreedomCalls (It's the "Statue of Liberty," not the "Statue of Security.")
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To: Pharmboy
Yest, this has been battered around on FR for a long time. In fact, I think I was the first to bring it up and posted extensively on it as I have researched this for a long time.

It's just one of those things that anybody can believe anything they want about it.

But one thing is certain. Flags denote jurisdiction.

The Title IV, USC 1 flag (described in E.O. 10834) is the official flag of our country. It is the civilian flag and has very precise specifications based on ratios relative to hoist and fly.

Military and federal flags are based on size, not ratios, and may or may not have fringe, depending on their use.

Chances are that you will never see the civilian flag with the 1 to 1.9 ratio in a courtroom, for as noted in the article, most, if not all of our courts are under admiralty jurisdiction and the flags used therein are based on SIZE, not RATIO.

I don't know why that is so hard for anyone to understand. Even the flag manufacturers don't get it, for none of them manufacture a flag based on the E.O. 10834 ratios.

I think the objections to the fringed flag in school rooms and other municipal places are made because some feel the schools should be under the jurisdiction of the state, not the federal government. The same objections, of course, hold for the state and municipal courts as well as other state and municipal buildings.

How silly to think the federal government has assumed state and municipal powers just because their jurisdictional flag is displayed in our public buildings.

By co-inky-dink, I happened to post the EO 10834 Title IV flag spec sheet on another thread today. FWIW, here it is again. Don't shoot the messenger:


59 posted on 12/07/2004 8:32:40 PM PST by Eastbound ("Neither a Scrooge nor a Patsy be")
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To: OKSooner
"Whomever is in charge at the place the gold-fringe flag is displayed has the authority to summon the black helicopters "

I have one sitting just behind me in my office.

BEWARE, PEONS!

60 posted on 12/07/2004 8:34:17 PM PST by TexasCowboy (Texan by birth, citizen of Jesusland by the Grace of God)
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To: Army Air Corps
Man, I may have to look at his archived posts. he sounds like a loon. Did he just cross the line between "amusingly nutty" to "call the guys with the butterfly nets"?

At the time, I had run-ins with him on several threads (as in this Post 64).

I claimed that the most likely cause of the Kursk's demise was an onboard torpedo accident as they used highly dangerous hydrogen peroxide as propellant fuel.

But, what did I know. :-)

The Michael Rivero standard conspiracy theory was that, if something blew up or sank, it was the fault of the U.S. Government.

61 posted on 12/07/2004 8:34:18 PM PST by Polybius
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To: All

If it is purely decorative and holds no "significance" then the court should have no problems with replacing it with a non-fringed flag if a defendent so chooses (he brings his own American flag), no?

Odd that the "fringe" would push for a flag with "no fringe".


62 posted on 12/07/2004 8:36:22 PM PST by weegee (WE FOUGHT ZOGBYISM November 2, 2004 - 60 Million Voters versus 60 Minutes - BUSH WINS!!!)
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To: Doctor Raoul

I know that Dale Gribble has brought this up in at least one episode of King Of The Hill. I can't recall what he was in court for.


63 posted on 12/07/2004 8:38:13 PM PST by weegee (WE FOUGHT ZOGBYISM November 2, 2004 - 60 Million Voters versus 60 Minutes - BUSH WINS!!!)
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To: Cultural Jihad
"I do not recognize the authority of a court that hangs the gold fringe flag. A flag with gilded edges is the flag of an Admirality Court. An Admirality Court signifies a naval court martial. I cannot be court martialed twice."

Dale Gribble, King of the Hill, Episode KH203

'nuff said

64 posted on 12/07/2004 8:41:22 PM PST by Hessian (Time flies like an arrow, fruit flies like a banana.)
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To: Pharmboy
AH SON, NOT THIS CRAP AGAIN


65 posted on 12/07/2004 8:41:25 PM PST by WilliamWallace1999
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To: weegee

In that same diatribe, Gribble said something to the effect that he would not be court-martialed AGAIN. Funny stuff.


66 posted on 12/07/2004 8:42:11 PM PST by Army Air Corps (Half a league, half a league rode the MSM into the valley of obscurity)
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To: Pharmboy
cry over the current usurpers of jurisprudence.

There's the "U word". It's the most reliable kook indicator.

67 posted on 12/07/2004 8:43:20 PM PST by Cogadh na Sith (--Scots Gaelic: 'War or Peace'--)
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To: Pharmboy

Court Cases on Yellow Fringed Flags

Richard Anthony

http://www.ecclesia.org/truth/flags.html



The following court cases deal with objections to the court having a yellow fringed flag. In every case, the court ruled that it is frivolous to argue that there is a yellow fringed flag in the court. Many "'patriots" (for profit) have used these court cases to "prove" that it does not matter if the flag has a yellow fringe or not. But if it does not matter, why doesn't the court simply bring a non-fringed flag into the court like the accused asked them to? However, as will be seen, the reason for the courts ruling against these arguments was not because it is irrelevant as to what flag is flown, but because the accused used the wrong arguments and submitted themselves to the courts jurisdiction! [Richard's comments in brackets].

Remember, a court is not under military jurisdiction because of the yellow fringed flag, but the yellow fringed flag is there because the court is under military jurisdiction. Keep this in mind as you read these cases.

Slangal v. Cassel (D Neb 1997) 962 F.Supp 1214. "I find and conclude that any complaint predicated in whole or in part upon the allegation that jurisdiction is based upon the 'American Free Flag of Peace, title 4 USC 1'...or a similar allegation is frivolous, malicious and intended to harass. The plaintiff or anyone else who has filed...such a 'flag' suit is notified that any such suit filed after this date will be dismissed sua sponte without notice for lack of subject matter jurisdiction."

[Jurisdiction is based upon Law, and not upon flags or 'signs.' In addition, "the plaintiff or anyone else who has filed" an action in a military court, is voluntarily submitting himself to the court's jurisdiction. To go to a military court, and enter into a 'contract' with that court, then argue one is not under its jurisdiction, is, of course, frivolous. Since scripture forbids going to courts of law, plaintiffs and litigants are forsaking God's Law, and are thus under man's law. "It is an elementary rule of pleading, that a plea to the jurisdiction is... a tacit admission that the court has a right to judge in the case, and is a waiver to all exceptions to the jurisdiction." 6 Bush Ky.8.

Schneider v. Schlaefer (ED Wisc 1997) 975 F.Supp 1160. Quoting McCann case and Atty-Gen Op and "from this day forward litigants...are put on notice that any claims or defenses based upon the alleged pre-eminence of the 'American Flag of Peace' over any other flag are frivolous and sanctionable."

[No flag has pre-eminence over any other flag. They are all equally 'idols' in God's eyes].

US v. G.D. Bell (ED Cal unpub 4/30/97) 79 AFTR 2d 2784 recons.den (ED Cal 1998) 27 F.Supp.2d 1191. "As to the physical composition of the flag in the courtroom, the General Services Administration Office of the Courts supply furnishings for the courtroom. Defendants should address any complaints about the form of the courtroom flag to the General Services Administration."

[Being a defendant also gives jurisdiction. The correct term to use is "accused"].

Jarboe v. Reichle (Conn.Super. unpub 11/10/86). Claiming that "the presence of an alleged gold fringed military flag in the courtroom indicates this [State] court is not a constitutional court."

[Since the constitution does establish military courts, it is a constitutional court. All military courts are constitutional.]

State v. Martz (Ohio App. unpub 6/9/97) app.dismissed 80 Ohio St.3d 1423, 685 NE2d 237. Appellant claims the trial court was without jurisdiction...because the courtroom displayed a military style US flag with gold fringe. We disagree."

[Again, flags do not determine jurisdiction, they only reveal the jurisdiction already present. And why did 'appellant' go to their jurisdiction to sue? By doing so, he again submitted himself to their military jurisdiction, voluntarily!]

Jarboe v. Reichle (Conn.Super. unpub 11/10/86). This one said that fringe on the flag made it a military court.

[The flag does not make it a military court, law does. The flag only shows what jurisdiction already exists.]

Dunkel v. McCloskey (ED Penn unpub 11/25/98). "This Court is persuaded that the American Flag statute cannot be relied on as a jurisdictional basis for a [civil rights] action." Rule 11 sanctions imposed.

[Civil Rights are governed by military law].

Wyatt v. Kelly, Chief Bankruptcy Judge (WD Texas unpub 3/23/98) 44 USPQ2d 1578, 81 AFTR2d 1463, 98 USTC para 50326. Tried to sue judge for not removing fringed flag nor installing "a flag that met plaintiff's specifications." Court imposed Rule 11 fine of $1000.

[This is like suing a police officer for not removing his badge. The decor does not determine jurisdiction, but only indicates what already exists.]

Ch.H. Cass v. R.J. Reynolds Tobacco Co (MDNC unpub 10/1/98) 82 AFTR2d 6967. Suing federal judges, US Attorneys, county registrars, IRS agents, and some big corporations because of fringed flag. "The complaint will be dismissed not because this court operates under the regal splendor of a gold fringed flag but because the complaint is legally absurd."

[It is rather absurd to sue a military institution for displaying a military flag, isn't it?].

Marion v. Marion (Conn.Super. unpub 6/18/98). Trying to sue a town official and a judge for "accepting" a fringed US flag supposedly thereby "suppressing" the perp's rights.

[Followers of Christ have no "rights" in scripture, except the right to the tree of life - Revelation 22:14].

US v. Schiefen (D SoDak 1995) 926 F.Supp 877 aff'd 81 F3d 166 mand.denied 522 US 1074. "Federal jurisdiction is determined by statute, not by whether the flag flown is plain or fringed."

McCann v. Greenway (WD Mo 1997) 952 F.Supp 647. "Jurisdiction is a matter of law statute, and constitution, not a child's game wherein one's power is magnified or diminished by the display of some magic talisman." And quoting the 34 Op.US Atty-Gen 483 (1925) that "in flag manufacture a fringe is not considered to be a part of the flag and it is without heraldic significance."

Lang v. Dieleuterio (D NJ unpub 2/17/99). "Such objections to the court's flag, or even to the absence of any flag, have uniformly been dismissed as meritless because the type of flag displayed does not effect federal jurisdiction."

City of Belton v. Horton (Mo.App 1997) 947 SW2d 104. Claimed the fringe on the American flag "the court was thus a foreign power, and the trial judge was the supreme ruler of a foreign power, devoid of any jurisdiction over him." Similarly in Wacker v. Crow (10th Cir unpub 7/1/99).

G.D. Fowler v. State (Ark.App 1999) 67 Ark.App 114, 992 SW2d 804. The defendant's objection to the fringe was emphasized by the prosecution during cross-examination, and similarly during the cross-examination of the defendant's fellow militia group members, and on appeal the exploitation of the defendant's objection to the courtroom flag was held to be so prejudicial, because it was calculated to arouse the jury's hostility to the defendant, that the conviction was overturned.

Dulisse v. Twardowski (ED Penn unpub 7/16/98). Suing federal judges, IRS agents and US Attorney for constructive treason, etc. because of fringed flag.

Haskins v. Wilbert (D Kan unpub 11/5/97). "Judge Wilbert's jurisdiction is in no way predicated on...the design of the US flag."

Murray v. State of Wyoming (10th Cir unpub 3/16/99) 176 F3d 489(t). "This argument is indisputably meritless."

Joyner v. Borough of Brooklyn (EDNY unpub 3/18/99).Claimed the presence of a fringed flag denied him a fair trial and constituted treason.

Vella v. McCammon (SD Tex 1987) 671 F.Supp 1128. "Not only without merit but also totally frivolous".

US v. Greenstreet (ND Tex 1996) 912 F.Supp 224. "Decor is not a determinant for jurisdiction."


Similar Cases

Huebner v. State (Tex.App unpub 5/8/97).
State v. Martz (Ohio App unpub 6/9/97).
Moeller v. D'Arrigo (ED Va 1995) 163 FRD 489.
R.Jones v. T.G. Watson (ND Ohio) unpub 9/29/97).
Lee v. Maass (1992) 111 Ore App 412, 826 P2d 97 revw denied 313 Ore 210, 830 P2d 596.
State v. Whalen (Ariz.App 1997) 192 Ariz 103, 961 P2d 1051 app.denied (Ariz Supm unpub 9/10/98).
US v. Warren (NDNY unpub 1/22/98).
J. Rogers v. Borough of Manhattan (a person) (SDNY unpub 10/1/98).
Bartrug v. Rubin (Ed Va 1997) 986 F.Supp 332.
Commonwealth v. Appel (1994) 438 Penn.Super. 214, 652 A2d 341.
State v. Svee (unpub 1/12/88) 143 Wisc.2d 892 (t), 421 NW2d 117(t).
Sadlier v. Payne (D Utah 1997) 974 F.Supp 1411.
Hancock v. State of Utah (10th Cir unpub 5/10/99) 176 F3d 488(t).
R.Miller v. USA (ND Ohio unpub 2/6/98).
R.Miller v. Gallagher (ND Ohio unpub 12/17/96).
US v. Dunkel (ND IL unpub 8/30/96) 78 AFTR2d 6529 rev. in part on other grounds (7th Cir unpub 7/1/97) 80 AFTR2d 5148, 97 USTC para 50565.


68 posted on 12/07/2004 8:46:11 PM PST by philetus (Zell Miller - One of the few)
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To: Denver Ditdat
"nobody by that name"

BUT... GOOGLE SEARCH: "Michael Rivero" site:www.freerepublic.com (1,110 results)

69 posted on 12/07/2004 8:47:20 PM PST by weegee (WE FOUGHT ZOGBYISM November 2, 2004 - 60 Million Voters versus 60 Minutes - BUSH WINS!!!)
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To: Polybius

Sounds like a raving nutter.


70 posted on 12/07/2004 8:51:42 PM PST by Army Air Corps (Half a league, half a league rode the MSM into the valley of obscurity)
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To: philetus

Good post. True. It's all about procedure. Some people never learn.


71 posted on 12/07/2004 8:54:12 PM PST by Eastbound ("Neither a Scrooge nor a Patsy be")
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To: KC Burke; Army Air Corps; FreedomCalls; Ramius; Congressman Billybob; El Gato; DBrow; OKSooner; ...

>>The Internet contains many sites that claim that the fringe indicates martial law or that the Constitution does not apply in that area.<<

I, myself, heard a Reno, Nevada Federal judge say to a defendant,"The Constitution does not apply in this courtroom. Do not mention it again or I will hold you in contempt of court."

So, all of you who think the fringe is just decoration better do some research because evidently it does have a meaning in Federal courtrooms.


72 posted on 12/07/2004 8:57:25 PM PST by B4Ranch (((The lack of alcohol in my coffee forces me to see reality!)))
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To: ChefKeith

Well, the second time around for an "official" grassy knoll investigation they decided that nobody could have seen gunsmoke from the knoll because any shooter would have used smokeless powder, and there would have been no smoke, so there was no shooter there.

But that was decided in a room with a fringed flag, so Admiralty Law applies, and no naval muzzleloading cannon would have used smokeless powder (2230, 6000 grains), so Ruby was the shooter. Or Oswald's wife, or Johnson.

I once signed a skeptic into a DCM match so he could actually see smoke from smokeless powder. He got a 300, not bad for a first try. His second match he got 380, with an M1 Garand including 600 yds. He reread both "official reports".

But I drift from Michael and his many posts. Fringed flags are intended to be pretty.


73 posted on 12/07/2004 9:06:34 PM PST by DBrow
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To: Eastbound
Durn! Forgot to say something.

"The Title IV, USC 1 flag (described in E.O. 10834) is the official flag of our country. It is the civilian flag and has very precise specifications based on ratios relative to hoist and fly."

The President wears two hats. One, as the elected chief executive of our Constitutional Republic, and the other as Commander-in-Chief of the United States Armed Forces. In that the military and the federal government are subservient to We the People, the civilian flag should always be displayed in the superior position.

Someday I'd like to walk in the Oval Office and see that statement confirmed by seeing the Title IV USC I flag of our country displayed in the superior position to the federal/military flag. The former on the left of the President's desk, the latter on the right

74 posted on 12/07/2004 9:21:28 PM PST by Eastbound ("Neither a Scrooge nor a Patsy be")
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To: KC Burke; Army Air Corps; FreedomCalls; Ramius; Congressman Billybob; El Gato; DBrow; OKSooner; ...
United States District Courts

The United States district courts are the trial courts of the federal court system. Within limits set by Congress and the Constitution, the district courts have jurisdiction to hear nearly all categories of federal cases, including both civil and criminal matters. There are 94 federal judicial districts, including at least one district in each state, the District of Columbia and Puerto Rico. Three territories of the United States -- the Virgin Islands, Guam, and the Northern Mariana Islands -- have district courts that hear federal cases, including bankruptcy cases.

There are two special trial courts that have nationwide jurisdiction over certain types of cases. The Court of International Trade addresses cases involving international trade and customs issues. The United States Court of Federal Claims has jurisdiction over most claims for money damages against the United States, disputes over federal contracts, unlawful "takings" of private property by the federal government, and a variety of other claims against the United States.

The court case I am thinking about either was the Wayne Hage case or another one that had to do with BLM land taking.

75 posted on 12/07/2004 9:28:20 PM PST by B4Ranch (((The lack of alcohol in my coffee forces me to see reality!)))
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To: B4Ranch

http://www.uscourts.gov/districtcourts.html


76 posted on 12/07/2004 9:30:07 PM PST by B4Ranch (((The lack of alcohol in my coffee forces me to see reality!)))
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To: Pharmboy

Two words....venue and jurisdiction.


77 posted on 12/07/2004 9:31:45 PM PST by american spirit
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To: Pharmboy

It is a secret symbol used by the "Enlightened Ones" who have taken over the Federal Reserve and are slowly turning all money production to the "U.S. Treasury" which these EO's have taken over during the Klinton Admin. What they intend to do is back our New Colored Money by 50% Gold, thus stabilizing the Almighty U.S. Dollar. With that stability, they will entice everyone around the world to invest in the U.S. Dollar, and give up their own currency which will lead to World Domination by these Alien Enlightened Ones who feel this is the best way to force mankind into willfull slavery, thinking that these Enlightened Ones came to save the World from total anhilation. Of course, this is exactly what they wanted "Earthlings" to believe. They will have conquered mankind without firing a shot. Their ultimate goal is of course slavery in every part of the Universe that they have set up colonies, so the less people killed, the more slaves they have for their alien colonies. They will expose their true physical appearance when the Earth is safely in their hands. They came from the 12th Planet which circles the Sun in a very elongated ellipse, making it's complete revolution of the Sun every 40,000 years, and will come very close to Earth in the near future, and so their task to take over the Earth is of the highest priority. They have exponentially stepped up their takeover of world governments through the individual country's treasury depts. They call themselves the Nephilim, and are similar in appearance to what mankind calls Angels except they do not have halos over their heads, but they do have angelic wings or so it is supposed.
There is no use getting anxious about what is happening. It cannot be thwarted in any way. They are far, far superior in intelligence and technology than mere mortal man. How do I know about this..............because I are one. BWAHHHHHHAAAAAAAAAAAHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHAAAAAAAAAAAAA!!


78 posted on 12/07/2004 9:39:08 PM PST by Iam1ru1-2
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To: Iam1ru1-2

I knew it all along...;-)


79 posted on 12/07/2004 9:43:03 PM PST by Army Air Corps (Half a league, half a league rode the MSM into the valley of obscurity)
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To: american spirit
Admiralty law in the United States developed from the British admiralty courts present in most of the American colonies. These courts functioned separately from courts of law and equity. With the Judiciary Act, though, Congress placed admiralty under the jurisdiction of the federal district courts. Although admiralty shares much in common with the civil law, it is separate from it. Common law does not act as binding precedent on admiralty courts, but it and other law may be used when no law on point is available.

(snip)

Just as the Federal Rules of Civil Procedure placed law and equity under the same jurisdiction in 1938, the 1966 rules subsumed admiralty. Nonetheless, the Supplemental Admiralty Rules take precedence over the Federal Rules of Civil Procedure in the event of conflict between the two.

http://lii.law.cornell.edu/topics/admiralty.html

80 posted on 12/07/2004 9:43:16 PM PST by B4Ranch (((The lack of alcohol in my coffee forces me to see reality!)))
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To: Iam1ru1-2

OWNERSHIP OF THE FEDERAL RESERVE

http://www.lawfulpath.com/ref/federal_reserve.shtml

Go to the site.
The charts won't post correctly.


81 posted on 12/07/2004 9:45:26 PM PST by philetus (Zell Miller - One of the few)
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To: philetus
The Lawful Path     http://www.lawfulpath.com         Narrow is the Path to the Truth TLP Home
Welcome   Reading Room   Catalog   Calendar   Springboard   Contact Us

OWNERSHIP OF THE FEDERAL RESERVE



Most Americans, if they know anything at all about the Federal Reserve, believe it is an agency of the United States Government. This article charts the true nature of the "National Bank."

Chart 1

Source: ** Federal Reserve Directors: A Study of Corporate and Banking Influence ** - - Published 1976

Chart 1 reveals the linear connection between the Rothschilds and the Bank of England, and the London banking houses which ultimately control the Federal Reserve Banks through their stockholdings of bank stock and their subsidiary firms in New York. The two principal Rothschild representatives in New York, J. P. Morgan Co., and Kuhn, Loeb & Co. were the firms which set up the Jekyll Island Conference at which the Federal Reserve Act was drafted, who directed the subsequent successful campaign to have the plan enacted into law by Congress, and who purchased the controlling amounts of stock in the Federal Reserve Bank of New York in 1914. These firms had their principal officers appointed to the Federal Reserve Board of Governors and the Federal Advisory Council in 1914. In 1914 a few families (blood or business related) owning controlling stock in existing banks (such as in New York City) caused those banks to purchase controlling shares in the Federal Reserve regional banks. Examination of the charts and text in the House Banking Committee Staff Report of August, 1976 and the current stockholders list of the 12 regional Federal Reserve Banks show this same family control.

                                N.M. Rothschild , London - Bank of England
                                 ______________________________________
                                |                                     |
                                |                           J. Henry Schroder
                                |                             Banking | Corp.
                                |                                     |
                          Brown, Shipley - Morgan Grenfell - Lazard - |
                           & Company        & Company       Brothers  |
                                |               |              |      |
            --------------------|        -------|              |      |
            |                   |        |      |              |      |
 Alex Brown - Brown Bros. - Lord Mantagu - Morgan et Cie -- Lazard ---|
 & Son      |  Harriman       Norman     |    Paris          Bros     |
            |                   |        /      |            N.Y.     |
            |                   |       |       |              |      |
            |            Governor, Bank | J.P. Morgan Co -- Lazard ---|
            |            of England    /  N.Y. Morgan       Freres    |
            |            1924-1938    /   Guaranty Co.      Paris     |
            |                        /    Morgan Stanley Co.  |      /
            |                       /           |              \Schroder Bank
            |                      /            |              Hamburg/Berlin
            |                     /      Drexel & Company         /
            |                    /       Philadelphia            /
            |                   /                               /
            |                  /                           Lord Airlie
            |                 /                               /
            |                /     M. M. Warburg       Chmn J. Henry Schroder
            |                |      Hamburg ---------  marr. Virginia F. Ryan
            |                |         |               grand-daughter of Otto
            |                |         |                Kahn of Kuhn Loeb Co.
            |                |         |
            |                |         |
Lehman Brothers N.Y -------------- Kuhn Loeb Co. N. Y.
            |                |     --------------------------
            |                |       |                      |
            |                |       |                      |
Lehman Brothers - Mont. Alabama   Solomon Loeb           Abraham Kuhn
            |                |     __|______________________|_________
Lehman-Stern, New Orleans   Jacob Schiff/Theresa Loeb  Nina Loeb/Paul Warburg
- -------------------------    |       |                      |
             |               | Mortimer Schiff        James Paul Warburg
_____________|_______________/       |
|            |          |   |        |
Mayer Lehman |     Emmanuel Lehman    \
|            |          |              \
Herbert Lehman     Irving Lehman        \
|            |          |                \
Arthur Lehman \    Phillip Lehman     John Schiff/Edith Brevoort Baker
              /         |             Present Chairman Lehman Bros
             /  Robert Owen Lehman    Kuhn Loeb - Granddaughter of
            /           |             George F. Baker
           |           /               |
           |          /                |
           |         /           Lehman Bros Kuhn Loeb (1980)
           |        /                  |
           |       /             Thomas Fortune Ryan
           |      |                    |
           |      |                    |
      Federal Reserve Bank Of New York |
           ||||||||                    |
  ______National City Bank N. Y.       |
  |        |                           |
  |   National Bank of Commerce N.Y ---|
  |        |                            \
  |   Hanover National Bank N.Y.         \
  |        |                              \
  |   Chase National Bank N.Y.             \
  |                                        |
  |                                        |
Shareholders - National City Bank - N.Y.   |
- -----------------------------------------  |
  |                                        /
James Stillman                            /
Elsie m. William Rockefeller             /
Isabel m.  Percy Rockefeller            /
William Rockefeller          Shareholders - National Bank of Commerce N. Y.
J. P. Morgan                 -----------------------------------------------
M.T. Pyne                    Equitable Life - J.P. Morgan
Percy Pyne                   Mutual Life - J.P. Morgan
J.W. Sterling                H.P. Davison - J. P. Morgan
NY Trust/NY Edison           Mary W. Harriman
Shearman & Sterling          A.D. Jiullard - North British Merc. Insurance
|                            Jacob Schiff
|                            Thomas F. Ryan
|                            Paul Warburg
|                            Levi P. Morton - Guaranty Trust - J. P. Morgan
|
|
Shareholders - First National Bank of N.Y.
- -------------------------------------------
J.P. Morgan
George F. Baker
George F. Baker Jr.
Edith Brevoort Baker
US Congress - 1946-64
|
|
|
|
|
Shareholders - Hanover National Bank N.Y.
- ------------------------------------------
James Stillman
William Rockefeller
|
|
|
|
|
Shareholders - Chase National Bank N.Y.
- ---------------------------------------
George F. Baker


Chart 2

Source: ** Federal Reserve Directors: A Study of Corporate and Banking Influence ** - - Published 1983

The J. Henry Schroder Banking Company chart encompasses the entire history of the twentieth century, embracing as it does the program (Belgium Relief Commission) which provisioned Germany from 1915-1918 and dissuaded Germany from seeking peace in 1916; financing Hitler in 1933 so as to make a Second World War possible; backing the Presidential campaign of Herbert Hoover ; and even at the present time, having two of its major executives of its subsidiary firm, Bechtel Corporation serving as Secretary of Defense and Secretary of State in the Reagan Administration.

The head of the Bank of England since 1973, Sir Gordon Richardson, Governor of the Bank of England (controlled by the House of Rothschild) was chairman of J. Henry Schroder Wagg and Company of London from 1963-72, and director of J. Henry Schroder, New York and Schroder Banking Corporation, New York, as well as Lloyd's Bank of London, and Rolls Royce. He maintains a residence on Sutton Place in New York City, and as head of "The London Connection," can be said to be the single most influential banker in the world.

                               J. Henry Schroder
                               -----------------
                                      |
                                      |
                                      |
                          Baron Rudolph Von Schroder
                           Hamburg - 1858 - 1934
                                      |
                                      |
                                      |
                            Baron Bruno Von Schroder
                            Hamburg - 1867 - 1940
 F. C. Tiarks                         |
 1874-1952                            |
     |                                |
 marr. Emma Franziska                 |
 (Hamburg)                    Helmut B. Schroder
 J. Henry Schroder 1902               |
 Dir. Bank of England                 |
 Dir. Anglo-Iranian                   |
 Oil Company         J. Henry Schroder Banking Company N.Y.
                                      |
                                      |
                       J. Henry Schroder Trust Company N.Y.
                                      |
                                      |
                                      |
                   ___________________|____________________
                  |                                        |
            Allen Dulles                              John Foster Dulles
          Sullivan & Cromwell                        Sullivan & Cromwell
          Director - CIA                             U. S. Secretary of State
                                                     Rockefeller Foundation
 Prentiss Gray
 ------------
Belgian Relief Comm.                     Lord Airlie
Chief Marine Transportation              -----------
US Food Administration WW I          Chairman; Virgina Fortune
Manati Sugar Co. American &          Ryan daughter of Otto Kahn
British Continental Corp.            of Kuhn,Loeb Co.
       |                                    |
       |                                    |
 M. E. Rionda                               |
 ------------                               |
Pres. Cuba Cane Sugar Co.                   |
Manati Sugar Co. many other                 |
sugar companies.                     _______|
       |                            |
       |                            |
 G. A. Zabriskie                    |
 ---------------                    |                Emile Francoui
Chmn U.S. Sugar Equalization        |                --------------
Board 1917-18; Pres Empire          |            Belgian Relief Comm. Kai
Biscuit Co., Columbia Baking        |            Ping Coal Mines, Tientsin
Co. , Southern Baking Co.           |            Railroad,Congo Copper, La
                                    |            Banque Nationale de Belgique
             Suite 2000 42 Broadway | N. Y                      |
          __________________________|___________________________|
         |                          |                           |
         |                          |                           |
    Edgar Richard            Julius H. Barnes             Herbert Hoover
    -------------            ----------------             --------------
Belgium Relief Comm         Belgium Relief Comm       Chmn Belgium Relief Com
Amer Relief Comm            Pres Grain Corp.           U.S. Food Admin
U.S. Food Admin             U.S. Food Admin           Sec of Commerce 1924-28
1918-24, Hazeltine Corp.    1917-18, C.B Pitney       Kaiping Coal Mines
   |                        Bowes Corp, Manati        Congo Copper, President
   |                        Sugar Corp.                  U.S. 1928-32
   |
   |
   |
John Lowery Simpson
- -------------------
Sacramento,Calif Belgium Relief                       |
Comm. U. S. Food Administration             Baron Kurt Von Schroder
Prentiss Gray Co. J. Henry Schroder         -----------------------
Trust, Schroder-Rockefeller, Chmn         Schroder Banking Corp. J.H. Stein
Fin Comm, Bechtel International           Bankhaus (Hitler's personal bank
Co. Bechtel Co. (Casper Weinberger        account) served on board of all
Sec of Defense, George P. Schultz         German subsidiaries of ITT . Bank
Sec of State (Reagan Admin).              for International Settlements,
            |                             SS Senior Group Leader,Himmler's
            |                             Circle of Friends (Nazi Fund),
            |                             Deutsche Reichsbank,president
            |
            |
Schroder-Rockefeller & Co. , N.Y.
- ---------------------------------
Avery Rockefeller, J. Henry Schroder
Banking Corp., Bechtel Co., Bechtel
International Co. , Canadian Bechtel
Company.          |
                  |
                  |
                  |
         Gordon Richardson
         -----------------
Governor, Bank of England
1973-PRESENT C.B. of J. Henry Schroder N.Y.
Schroder Banking Co., New York, Lloyds Bank
Rolls Royce


Chart 3

Source: ** Federal Reserve Directors: A Study of Corporate and Banking Influence ** - - Published 1976

The David Rockefeller chart shows the link between the Federal Reserve Bank of New York, Standard Oil of Indiana, General Motors and Allied Chemical Corportion (Eugene Meyer family) and Equitable Life (J. P. Morgan).


DAVID ROCKEFELLER
- ----------------------------
Chairman of the Board
Chase Manhattan Corp
      |
      |
______|_______________________
Chase Manhattan Corp.        |
Officer & Director Interlocks|---------------------
------|-----------------------                    |
      |                                           |
Private Investment Co. for America       Allied Chemicals Corp.
      |                                           |
Firestone Tire & Rubber Company          General Motors
      |                                           |
Orion Multinational Services Ltd.        Rockefeller Family & Associates
      |                                           |
ASARCO. Inc                              Chrysler Corp.
      |                                           |
Southern Peru Copper Corp.               Intl' Basic Economy Corp.
      |                                           |
Industrial Minerva Mexico S.A.           R.H. Macy & Co.
      |                                           |
Continental Corp.                        Selected Risk Investments S.A.
      |                                           |
Honeywell Inc.                           Omega Fund, Inc.
      |                                           |
Northwest Airlines, Inc.                 Squibb Corporation
      |                                           |
Northwestern Bell Telephone Co.          Olin Foundation
      |                                           |
Minnesota Mining & Mfg Co (3M)           Mutual Benefit Life Ins. Co. of NJ
      |                                           |
American Express Co.                            AT & T
      |                                           |
Hewlett Packard                          Pacific Northwestern Bell Co.
      |                                           |
FMC Corporation                          BeachviLime Ltd.
      |                                           |
Utah Intl' Inc.                          Eveleth Expansion Company
      |                                           |
Exxon Corporation                        Fidelity Union Bancorporation
      |                                           |
International Nickel/Canada              Cypress Woods Corporation
      |                                           |
Federated Capital Corporation            Intl' Minerals & Chemical Corp.
      |                                           |
Equitable Life Assurance Soc U.S.        Burlington Industries
      |                                           |
Federated Dept Stores                    Wachovia Corporation
      |                                           |
General Electric                         Jefferson Pilot Corporation
      |                                           |
Scott Paper Co.                          R. J. Reynolds Industries Inc.
      |                                           |
American Petroleum Institute             United States Steel Corp.
      |                                           |
Richardson Merril Inc.                   Metropolitan Life Insurance Co.
      |                                           |
May Department Stores Co.                Norton-Simon Inc.
      |                                           |
Sperry Rand Corporation                  Stone-Webster Inc.
      |                                           |
San Salvador Development Company         Standard Oil of Indiana


Chart 4

** Federal Reserve Directors: A Study of Corporate and Banking Influence ** - - Published 1976

This chart shows the interlocks between the Federal Reserve Bank of New York J. Henry Schroder Banking Corp., J. Henry Schroder Trust Co., Rockefeller Center, Inc., Equitable Life Assurance Society ( J.P. Morgan), and the Federal Reserve Bank of Boston.


 Alan Pifer, President
 Carnegie Corporation
 of New York
- ----------------------
         |
         |
- ----------------------
 Carnegie Corporation
 Trustee Interlocks      --------------------------
----------------------                            |
         |                                        |
Rockefeller Center, Inc                 J. Henry Schroder Trust Company
         |                                        |
The Cabot Corporation                   Paul Revere Investors, Inc.
         |                                        |
Federal Reserve Bank of Boston          Qualpeco, Inc.
         |
Owens Corning Fiberglas
         |
New England Telephone Co.
         |
Fisher Scientific Company
         |
Mellon National Corporation
         |
Equitable Life Assurance Society
         |
Twentieth Century Fox Corporation
         |
J. Henry Schroder Banking Corporation


Chart 5

Source: ** Federal Reserve Directors: A Study of Corporate and Banking Influence ** - - Published 1976

This chart shows the link between the Federal Reserve Bank of New York, Brown Brothers Harriman,Sun Life Assurance Co. (N.M. Rothschild and Sons), and the Rockefeller Foundation.


Maurice F. Granville
Chairman of The Board
Texaco Incorporated
- ----------------------
        |
        |
Texaco Officer & Director Interlocks  ---------- Liggett & Myers, Inc.
- ------------------------------------         |
        |                                      |
        |                                      |
 L  Arabian American Oil Company            St John d'el Ray Mining Co. Ltd.
 O      |                                      |
 N  Brown Brothers Harriman & Co.           National Steel Corporation
 D      |                                      |
 O  Brown Harriman & Intl' Banks Ltd.       Massey-Ferguson Ltd.
 N      |                                      |
    American Express                        Mutual Life Insurance Co.
        |                                      |
 N. American Express Intl' Banking Corp.    Mass Mutual Income Investors Inc.
 M.     |                                      |
    Anaconda                                United Services Life Ins. Co.
 R      |                                      |
 O  Rockefeller Foundation                  Fairchild Industries
 T      |                                      |
 H  Owens-Corning Fiberglas                 Blount, Inc.
 S      |                                      |
 C  National City Bank (Cleveland)          William Wrigley Jr. Co
 H      |                                      |
 I  Sun Life Assurance Co.                  National Blvd. Bank of Chicago
 L      |                                      |
 D  General Reinsurance                     Lykes Youngstown Corporation
        |                                      |
    General Electric (NBC)                  Inmount Corporation

** Source: Federal Reserve Directors: A Study of Corporate and Banking Influence. Staff Report,Committee on Banking,Currency and Housing, House of Representatives, 94th Congress, 2nd Session, August 1976.


(Isaiah 33:22) For the Lord is our judge, the Lord is our lawgiver, the Lord is our king; he will save us.

The Lawful Path     -     http://lawfulpath.com


82 posted on 12/07/2004 9:50:52 PM PST by B4Ranch (((The lack of alcohol in my coffee forces me to see reality!)))
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To: B4Ranch; Congressman Billybob
While we are at it, we might well consider why any lawyer who wants to keep his licence and not be held in contempt of court is effectively intimidated and coerced away from arguing in court for the principle of jury nullification on behalf of clients.

(Y'all remember jury nullification, don't you? If you don't, just recall about the "Fugitive Slave Act" in the North in the years before the Civil War... don we now our asbestos underwear... ;-)

83 posted on 12/07/2004 10:13:27 PM PST by SteveH
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To: B4Ranch

*crickets*


84 posted on 12/07/2004 10:15:17 PM PST by Dec31,1999 (www.protestwarrior.com)
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To: Pharmboy

http://www.apfn.org/apfn/flag.htm

http://www.barefootsworld.net/stflags.html

http://opensource.nus.edu.sg/personal/conspiracy/links.html


85 posted on 12/08/2004 12:04:47 AM PST by The Loan Arranger (The modern definition of 'racist' is someone who is winning an argument with a liberal.)
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To: Pharmboy

86 posted on 12/08/2004 1:03:54 AM PST by LibertarianInExile (NO BLOOD FOR CHOCOLATE! Get the UN-ignoring, unilateralist Frogs out of Ivory Coast!)
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To: Iam1ru1-2

ROFL, did you make all of that up on the fly? :P


87 posted on 12/08/2004 1:27:25 AM PST by Constantine XIII
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To: LibertarianInExile
I'm sorry I asked.

( ;-D

88 posted on 12/08/2004 2:52:24 AM PST by Pharmboy (Listen...you can still hear the old media sobbing.)
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To: B4Ranch
Interesting chart!!

You've proven that rich people run the banks.
I suppose you have a chart proving that politicians run the government?

89 posted on 12/08/2004 7:46:19 AM PST by Toddsterpatriot (Protectionists give me the Willies!!!)
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To: SteveH

It might be interesting to note that lawyers are not licensed in the usual sense by any state created agency and operate using a "BAR" card. I'm under the impression they are also considered an "officer of the court" which dictates their real allegiance lies and the obvious fact is if a lawyer expects to have any kind of career he needs to stay on the good side of judges and go with the flow.


90 posted on 12/08/2004 7:59:36 AM PST by american spirit
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To: Dec31,1999

Rectal cranial inversion.......it's curable.


91 posted on 12/08/2004 8:01:44 AM PST by american spirit
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To: Pharmboy

Bump for a thread you just KNOW is going to be good.


92 posted on 12/08/2004 8:02:17 AM PST by asgardshill ("We march by day and read Xenophon by night.")
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To: american spirit
It might be interesting to note that lawyers are not licensed in the usual sense by any state created agency and operate using a "BAR" card.

BAR, as in "British Accredited Registry"?

Hmm... ;-)

93 posted on 12/08/2004 8:32:07 AM PST by SteveH
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To: SteveH

I've heard about the B.A.R. but unless it can be verified without a doubt I don't want to go down that road....any other ideas what it could mean?


94 posted on 12/08/2004 8:57:49 AM PST by american spirit
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To: Toddsterpatriot

I didn't draw the chart. What it shows is not that rich people control the banks but that a very small group of rich people control them.

Do you see Bill Gates name on the list? He's rich, isn't he?


95 posted on 12/08/2004 9:42:51 AM PST by B4Ranch (((The lack of alcohol in my coffee forces me to see reality!)))
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To: B4Ranch
I didn't draw the chart. What it shows is not that rich people control the banks but that a very small group of rich people control them.

So, these Federal Reserve Banks, are their shares listed on a stock exchange? Do they pay dividends?

I went to the Federal Reserve website and didn't see any info about that.

96 posted on 12/08/2004 9:53:00 AM PST by Toddsterpatriot (Protectionists give me the Willies!!!)
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To: B4Ranch

It's always been interesting to me that folks refer to the FED as "quasi-governmental" (whatever the hell that means) but as far as I know there has never been an independent audit of this organization that is literally the lifeblood of our whole economy.......I would think there should be at least a semblance of accountability.


97 posted on 12/08/2004 10:23:25 AM PST by american spirit
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To: asgardshill

Who knew that an innocent question about gold fringe on Old Glory would lead to the Rothschilds and Warburgs??


98 posted on 12/08/2004 12:40:14 PM PST by Pharmboy (Listen...you can still hear the old media sobbing.)
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To: philetus

A true conspiracy nut would just say that this is proof of the widespread nature of the conspiracy.


99 posted on 12/08/2004 4:08:58 PM PST by jim_trent
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To: jim_trent

Under common law, can you be convicted of something where there is no injured party?


100 posted on 12/08/2004 6:24:50 PM PST by philetus (Zell Miller - One of the few)
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