Wanted: Israeli neocons

Jerusalem Post ^ | 12-16-04 | CAROLINE GLICK

[PiersGaveston]

Yeah we need some Israeli neo-cons, after all the Palestinians will happily role onto their back and let the occupying forces tickle their stomachs if democracy is on the agenda.

Well I suppose it would be an improvement on the current policy of indiscriminate slaughter.

[SJackson]

If you'd like to be on this middle east/political ping list, please FR mail me.

[Mamzelle]

I suppose they could use a few neocons to do the intellectual work. They could also use some conservatives willing to pick up a gun and fight.

[rightwingcrazy]

Your post is confusing. You refer to "occupying forces" as if they were Israelis. I consider the Arab terrorists in the territories "occupying forces". After all, they are "forces", and they do "occupy". And their *avowed* goal is to exterminate or otherwise eliminate others (Jews) in their midst through acts of terror.

Then you refer to the "current policy of indiscriminate slaughter". And yet, the Israeli government strives to target only those who are trying to kill Israelis. In other words, they try to *discriminate* those who are trying to get Israelis killed from those who aren't. It's hard to argue otherwise, except by plugging your ears and screaming, or by simply eliminating others with a different point of view.

[PiersGaveston]

I consider the Arab terrorists in the territories "occupying forces". After all, they are "forces", and they do "occupy".

I think that the 'crazy' in your user-name is showing through here, the choice of name should relect one's persona - don't you think?

Yes the Arabs of occupying the land, and have been doing for a few centuries. But that's not good enough for the Eretz Israel types, who would push them off (preferably killing them), whilst spitting in the face of the Christian leaders.

the Israeli government strives to target only those who are trying to kill Israelis

Yeah, and driving bulldozers through refugee camps is a really accurate means of targetting - come to think of it, why are these people living in such camps, could it be the ethnic cleansing the Israelis undertook back in the late '40s?

[rightwingcrazy]

My user-name recognizes dialog like you post, which pretends name-calling is reasoned argument.

Regarding "Arabs" occupying the land for centuries, I doubt you'll find a single Arab that's lived there more than about 90 years. Or are you implying that common language to previous occupiers implies birthright to land and the right to exclude others from it?

"Bulldozing through refugee camps", "ethic cleansing", etc: now you're regurgitating historical fiction. I've seen images of bulldozers, and I've read uncontested assertions that the targets of the bulldozers were structures used by terrorists for storing weapons, planning attacks, conducting attacks, etc. Destroying those buildings doesn't sound "indiscriminate" to me. Sounds like a discriminating means of self-preservation. You seem to presume that the Israelis don't have a right to self-preservation.

[Valin]

current policy of indiscriminate slaughter


Indiscriminate slaughter? Who? Israel?

[Valin]

why are these people living in such camps, could it be the ethnic cleansing the Israelis undertook back in the late '40s?

Or could it be that the rest of the Arab governments use them to keep their own people "under control".

[PiersGaveston]

Or could it be that the rest of the Arab governments use them to keep their own people "under control".

Absolutely, the Arab government stormed into their villages in 1948 and forced them to flee, then blocked their return. All of the time pretending to be Israelis. Sounds good to me.

[Valin]

Last time I checked the west bank was controled by Jordon and the Gaza was controled by Egypt from 48 till 67, so why did they keep the Palestinians in the camps?

[judicial meanz]

Glad you signed up yesterday to post this trash. You seem like one of those hate the Jooooooooooo's agenda driven posters who are popping up lately. If you aren't, prove me wrong.

Rebuttal answersI think that the 'crazy' in your user-name is showing through here, the choice of name should reflect one's persona - don't you think

Ony if ones opinion of people who are professed right wingers happens to be skewed to begin with.

Yes the Arabs of occupying the land, and have been doing for a few centuries. But that's not good enough for the Eretz Israel types, who would push them off (preferably killing them), whilst spitting in the face of the Christian leaders

The Jews have been there for centuries also. They bought the land they live on, and are legally entitled to it by virtue of a UN resolution establishing the State of Israel, which was supervised by your very own Winston Churchill when British territorial holdings in the Middle East were given self determination in the late 40's.

Eretz Israel types? Thats a mighty large label applied with a huge brush stroke. Do you normally assign a reactionary label to an entire group of people with a common belief? If so, thats a method of intolerance and hate on your part

Spitting in the face of Christians? I've never had a Jew spit in my face, and I've read the article you are referencing. I've been to Israel a few times, so if this were as common as you allege, it probably should have happened to me by now. The Jews responsible were prosecuted for doing it by the Israeli's, so obviously this isnt a widely held belief common to all Jews. If it were, my wife and children should be spitting in my face daily.

Yeah, and driving bulldozers through refugee camps is a really accurate means of targetting - come to think of it, why are these people living in such camps, could it be the ethnic cleansing the Israelis undertook back in the late '40s?

Maybe you should ask this question of Jordan. They have 10 refugee camps with 300,000 people in them. UNWRA has to look over them because the Jordanians have periodically murdered more Palestinians than the Israelis ever thought of. The incident you are speaking in (Jenin) resulted in 20 Palestinain deaths, and an equal number of Israeli deaths due to an ambush and massacre by the Palestinans.

Dont forget the fact that Jenin sent out an inordinate amount of suicide bombers to murder Israelis prior to military operations conducted there.

[Paul_Denton]

Israel's passivity in the face of Palestinian corruption, authoritarianism and hate indicates that what Israel needs most desperately is for a movement of Israeli neoconservatives to arise and "take control" of Israel's foreign policy.

I agree. If it were me I would have had Arafat assasinated by a bullet to his head and would have occupied "palestine" as long as was necessary until Hamas and other terrorists were gone.

[rightwingcrazy]

The Israeli Left wants to be loved.

[Alouette]

Caroline Glick has nailed it.

Unfortunately, the authoritarian Israeli socialists will hand their own country over to the Palestinians to be destroyed rather than yield any scrap of power to "upstart" neocons.

No religious Jew or conservative challenger like Nathan Sharansky (or for that matter not even a rabid attack dog like Tommy Lapid) can expect to break the choke-hold that the old boy socialist kibbutz clique has on the government.

Is there any other explanation for the phenomenon that no matter which party gets elected, the Israelis are always stuck with Shimon Peres?

FRmail me to be added or removed from this Judaic/pro-Israel ping list.

WARNING: This is a high volume ping list

[Alouette]

Now ye troll, beg for mercy from...

...ZOT in boots!

[Valin]

Glad you signed up yesterday


Do I detect a hint of sarcasm? :-)

[PiersGaveston]

Glad you signed up yesterday to post this trash.

Well I signed up on Wednesday not yesterday, and it was to post other trash, this just seemed like a jolly argument to join.

You seem like one of those hate the Jooooooooooo's agenda driven posters who are popping up lately. If you aren't, prove me wrong.

I take that to mean that you think I am a rabid anti-semite. If so, you are utterly wrong. It would be impossible to prove this purely by written means, unless you accept my word that I am not. My view of the Jews is like my view of the Inuit, or the Mongolians - I am not one, but have no reason at all to have animosity towards them. I have come across of these anti-semites, and they were a bunch of utter lunatics; to suggest that the Jews secretly control the media, or the medical profession, or whatever else is almost as obviously false as the Protocols of the Elders of Zion.

The Jews have been there for centuries also.

Right into the 20th century there were more Christians than Jews, should this have become a Christian state?

a UN resolution establishing the State of Israel, which was supervised by your very own Winston Churchill when British territorial holdings in the Middle East were given self determination in the late 40's.

Well that all went back to the Balfour Declaration, which was rather silly. Sir Winston Churchill also ordered the Gallipolli campaign - ask our Australian brethren if you want to know about that - even the impramatur of such a great man does not make something right.

Also it is stretching a point to call it self-determination. It was a British pull-out based on frustration with the Arabs' lack of willingness to negotiate, and the terrorism of the Irgun and Stern Gang.

Eretz Israel types?

I mean those (both Jews and some protestant Christians) who apply a Divine Right to the Jewish possession of the entire land of ancient Israel. I have no problem with them holding that position, but as it is based on a particular view of revelation they should not be surprised when other people disagree with them; especially when grotesque means of accomplishing it are used.

Spitting in the face of Christians? I've never had a Jew spit in my face, and I've read the article you are referencing.

I'm glad to hear it, and for the record neither have I. however, I do tend to accept the views of local Christian leadership on the treatment of Christians in a given place, given the statements of the Latin Patriarch, the Greek Patriarch &c.&c.&c. I would not be terribly sure of decent treatment of Christians there.

[PiersGaveston]

Now ye troll, beg for mercy

I'd rather not old chap.

R.E. your tag-line, congratulations to yourself and your wife/husband. I am sure that your children are a great delight and source of pride to you.