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Grass flourishes in warmer Antarctic
The Sunday Times - Britain ^ | December 26, 2004 | Jonathan Leake, Science Editor

Posted on 01/22/2005 2:15:48 PM PST by Ernest_at_the_Beach

Grass flourishes in warmer Antarctic

Jonathan Leake, Science Editor

GRASS has become established in Antarctica for the first time, showing the continent is warming to temperatures unseen for 10,000 years.

Scientists have reported that broad areas of grass are now forming turf where there were once ice-sheets and glaciers.

Tufts have previously grown on patches of Antarctica in summer, but the scientists have now observed bigger areas surviving winter and spreading in the summer months. Some fear the change portends a much wider melting of the ice-cap that formed at least 20m years ago.

Pete Convey, an ecologist conducting research with the British Antarctic Survey (BAS), said: “Grass has taken a grip. There are very rapid changes going on in the Antarctic’s climate, allowing grass to colonise areas that would once have been far too cold.”

Convey said many species of wildlife were at serious risk from such rapid change including penguins, seals, cold-water fish and giant sea spiders.

The findings come at a politically sensitive time with Europe and America clashing over the latter’s refusal to sign up to the Kyoto treaty to limit greenhouse gas emissions. The confrontation may worsen with Tony Blair saying he is determined to push the issue up the international agenda when Britain assumes the presidencies of the European Union and the G8 countries next year.

The latest research was carried out on the Antarctic peninsula, which juts northwards towards Cape Horn, and the islands around it. More strongly influenced by changes in sea and air temperatures than the rest of Antarctica, these areas are an excellent place to measure effects of climate change.

Measurements over the past three decades show these are among the fastest-warming places on earth, with winter temperatures already 5C higher than in 1974. Many glaciers and ice-sheets are melting.

Convey said Antarctic hair grass and another species called pearlwort were the only complex plants capable of surviving on the Antarctic mainland. He said: “In the past they were at the limit of their range. They used to appear sporadically with one or a few plants growing in sheltered north-facing areas where birds or the wind dropped the seeds but they never did very well.

“What we are seeing now is dense swards or lawns forming and both plants growing much further south than ever before. It is quite remarkable.”

Research by Convey and his colleagues suggests one of the main reasons for the change is that the rising temperatures have brought forward the start of the Antarctic spring and delayed the onset of autumn, enabling the grass to produce mature seed which germinates and becomes established.

Antarctica has not always been ice-bound. It once had a temperate climate and was covered in dense vegetation. The Antarctic Peninsula was then joined to South America, creating a continuous land barrier along which warm water flowed southwards from the tropics. This water warmed Antarctica in the same way that the Gulf Stream now warms parts of Britain and northern Europe.

About 30m years ago, however, movements of the Earth’s crust carried South America northwards, cutting off the warm water. It was replaced by the circumpolar current in which extremely cold water flows in a constant circle around Antarctica, keeping it frozen and isolated.

John King, principal investigator for the BAS climate change programme, said: “We have also seen a sharp increase in the Roaring Forties, the powerful westerly winds that prevail around the Antarctic. One theory is that global warming is strengthening these winds.”

King and his colleagues believe such trends could continue, possibly even raising winter temperatures on the peninsula from their past average of -10C to near freezing. Eventually this could give the peninsula a climate comparable to that of Scandinavia.

A further climate alert is to be raised by Professor Lloyd Peck, Convey’s colleague at BAS. He will deliver a stark warning in the Royal Institution’s annual Christmas lectures on Channel 4 this week. Peck said this weekend: “Climate change in Antarctica is a warning of the globally catastrophic changes that will follow unless we act now.”



TOPICS: Culture/Society; Extended News; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: climatechange
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1 posted on 01/22/2005 2:15:49 PM PST by Ernest_at_the_Beach
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To: farmfriend


2 posted on 01/22/2005 2:17:12 PM PST by Brian328i
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To: farmfriend

giant sea spiders????

I didn't know about such critters...


3 posted on 01/22/2005 2:17:33 PM PST by Ernest_at_the_Beach (A Proud member of Free Republic ~~The New Face of the Fourth Estate since 1996.)
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To: Ernest_at_the_Beach; abbi_normal_2; Ace2U; adam_az; Alamo-Girl; Alas; alfons; alphadog; amom; ...
Rights, farms, environment ping.
Let me know if you wish to be added or removed from this list.
I don't get offended if you want to be removed.
4 posted on 01/22/2005 2:18:17 PM PST by farmfriend ( Congratulations. You are everything we've come to expect from years of government training.)
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To: Ernest_at_the_Beach

"giant sea spiders????

I didn't know about such critters..."

Sounds lovely. I think I'd prefer "lawns" of grass instead--hardly sounds like the stuff of "catastrophic" change to me.


5 posted on 01/22/2005 2:23:10 PM PST by hinckley buzzard
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To: Ernest_at_the_Beach
It fascinates me to see the same people who push the idea of natural selection also proposing to keep nature at the status quo.
6 posted on 01/22/2005 2:23:13 PM PST by farmfriend ( Congratulations. You are everything we've come to expect from years of government training.)
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To: Ernest_at_the_Beach

I hate spiders!! So I say warm it up baby!


7 posted on 01/22/2005 2:23:19 PM PST by Tom602 (I used to suffer from DIPS!! Democrat Induced Profanity Syndrome. Now I just smile... :^D)
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To: Ernest_at_the_Beach
Common sense reality check -- why would GRASS be anything to merit such ridiculous propositions such as ".. Tufts have previously grown on patches of Antarctica in summer, but the scientists have now observed bigger areas surviving winter and spreading in the summer months. Some fear the change portends a much wider melting of the ice-cap that formed at least 20m years ago."

Fear? When did grass become scary? Doesn't grass absorb CO2 and release oxygen -- thereby reducing the so-called and feared "greenhouse effect"?

This would be just silly except for the fact that these Luddites are deadly serious.

8 posted on 01/22/2005 2:27:07 PM PST by WL-law
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To: Ernest_at_the_Beach

"The findings come at a politically sensitive time with Europe and America clashing over the latter’s refusal to sign up to the Kyoto treaty to limit greenhouse gas emissions."

Gee, who would have seen this one coming? It is all America`s fault.


9 posted on 01/22/2005 2:27:36 PM PST by Peace will be here soon
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To: Ernest_at_the_Beach
Grasslands in Antarctica? Quick! Who wants to join me in setting up a cattle ranch in the real "down under"?
10 posted on 01/22/2005 2:28:11 PM PST by Kurt_D
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To: Ernest_at_the_Beach

Grassy steppes at the bottom of the world. Imagine vast, ambling herds of antarctic steen-bok, dik-dik, and gnu, culled by polar cheetahs and prides of white snow lions.


11 posted on 01/22/2005 2:28:22 PM PST by Asclepius (protectionists would outsource our dignity and prosperity in return for illusory job security)
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To: farmfriend
These enviro nuts go:


Government, you better listen to us or there will be a catasrophe.

Dump population, you better listen to us or there will be a catasrophe.

Nature you better listen to us or there will be a catasrophe.

God, you better listen to us or there will be a catasrophe.
12 posted on 01/22/2005 2:30:35 PM PST by seppel
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To: Ernest_at_the_Beach
The findings come at a politically sensitive time with Europe and America clashing over the latter’s refusal to sign up to the Kyoto treaty to limit greenhouse gas emissions.

That's because the treaty asks basically no sacrifice from Europe, and huge sacrifice from the US. The whole stupid thing is just another UN-based get-the-US ploy.

Funny how he didn't "frame" it that way.

13 posted on 01/22/2005 2:31:20 PM PST by PianoMan (and now back to practicing)
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To: Ernest_at_the_Beach
The latest research was carried out on the Antarctic peninsula, which juts northwards towards Cape Horn, and the islands around it. More strongly influenced by changes in sea and air temperatures than the rest of Antarctica, these areas are an excellent place to measure effects of climate change.

Funny how they only report measurements of the places that are warmer. Meanwhile, Europe is worried about entering a cooling period. It all adds up to a net zero to me.

14 posted on 01/22/2005 2:31:42 PM PST by LoneRangerMassachusetts (Some say what's good for others, the others make the goods; it's the meddlers against the peddlers)
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To: Peace will be here soon
The intonation is:

Bush is screwing up Antarctica...
15 posted on 01/22/2005 2:32:17 PM PST by seppel
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To: PianoMan

True, if they really wanted to curb polution they would have included China and India.


16 posted on 01/22/2005 2:32:23 PM PST by farmfriend ( Congratulations. You are everything we've come to expect from years of government training.)
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To: farmfriend
I guess they really exist:

***************************************

From:

SusanScott.net
Oceanwatch

****************************************

 Home | Ocean WatchBooksAbout SusanSearch | Email Susan

 

Previous Ocean Watch columnOcean WatchNext Ocean Watch column

Monday, February 8, 1999


Ubiquitous sea spiders
surprisingly hard to find

Last week, while researching my column about land spiders at the beach, I was reminded of several wonderful moments in my life regarding sea spiders.

Sea spiders are true marine creatures that live on ocean floors all over the world, from pole to pole, in shallow waters and deep. The scientific name of all sea spiders is Pycnogonida (pick-no-go-nid-a). These creatures may or may not be related to true spiders, but they look like them and have some marvelous characteristics all their own.

Anyway, when I first learned about these animals, I was a new student at the University of Hawaii, fulfilling a lifelong goal of studying marine biology. It was an exciting time for me.

"I learned about pycnogonids at school today," I told my husband after class one day. He was interested in marine biology but at that moment was only half listening.

His head shot up. "What?"

"Sea spiders. They're everywhere in the ocean."

"What did you call them?"

"Pycnogonids."

He burst our laughing.

"What's so funny?"

By then he was laughing so hard tears filled his eyes. Finally, he choked out, "I thought you said you learned how to pick your gonads at school today."

Art

To this day, neither of us can say the scientific name of sea spiders without cracking up.

For years after that, I kept an eye out for these fascinating invertebrates. My textbooks say sea spiders are fairly common, either clinging to their soft-bodied prey (anemones, sponges, worms), walking slowing along the ocean floor or swimming by beating their legs up and down. Since they look like spiders, having tiny bodies with long, gangly legs, you wouldn't think they would be hard to spot.

Still, I had no luck.

Then, a few years ago, a couple of grand sea spider moments came my way.

The first occurred at Palmer Station, a U.S. research facility on the Antarctic Peninsula. A worker was giving a tour of the station. "This is our aquarium where we keep interesting local specimens," she said with a wave of the hand. And there they were: two enormous, beautiful sea spiders.

"You finally found some you-know-whats," my husband whispered, smiling.

The creatures were as big around as large grapefruits and pumpkin-orange. I watched them stride around the tank, then entwine in some kind of mating ritual. It was a fine moment.

Later that week, I visited an Antarctic beach bathed in hot water from underground volcanic activity. And there on the lava-black sand lay several of the giant orange sea spiders, dead from the boiling water. That time, I even got to touch the spiders.

Sea spiders have no stomach and no respiratory or excretory organs. Digestive branches run down the legs, which permit gas exchange and pass wastes. The reproductive systems of sea spiders are also in the all-important legs.

Cold waters have the largest sea spiders. The biggest of these has a body 2.5 inches long with legs spanning 1.5 feet. Sea spiders living in warm waters such as Hawaii are small and inconspicuous.

After all these years, I still haven't seen one here -- and I still can't say the word pycnogonid without smiling.


17 posted on 01/22/2005 2:32:53 PM PST by Ernest_at_the_Beach (A Proud member of Free Republic ~~The New Face of the Fourth Estate since 1996.)
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To: Ernest_at_the_Beach
Sea spiders are true marine creatures that live on ocean floors all over the world, from pole to pole, in shallow waters and deep.

Well if they are that plentiful, what the heck are they worried about?

18 posted on 01/22/2005 2:35:17 PM PST by farmfriend ( Congratulations. You are everything we've come to expect from years of government training.)
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To: WL-law
Fear? When did grass become scary?

When did fear become part of the scientific method?

19 posted on 01/22/2005 2:38:48 PM PST by Moonman62 (Republican - The political party for the living.)
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To: farmfriend

I don't know...it is rather beautiful though....


20 posted on 01/22/2005 2:41:33 PM PST by Ernest_at_the_Beach (A Proud member of Free Republic ~~The New Face of the Fourth Estate since 1996.)
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To: farmfriend
It fascinates me to see the same people who push the idea of natural selection also proposing to keep nature at the status quo.

Agreed, that is foolish to think that the planet will now or has ever maintained a status quo. It is, like life, dynamic.

From what I have read, natural selection is not an "idea," but an observed phenomenon in plant life as well as bacteria and in some insects. How do you think bacteria and viruses become immune to vaccines??? It's worth pointing out, too, that there is nothing in the process of natural selection that negates the moral teachings of Christ.

If you are implying that only environmentalists, atheists, and liberals "believe" in evolution, you are very much mistaken. Natural selection is like mathematics -- it's there whether you like it or not.

A hypothetical example: moths that, like people, vary in color, suddenly find themselves in an environment where the pale ones are easily spotted and eaten by predators, and the dark ones are not. The dark ones are the ones that remain to reproduce, and their offspring are more likely to be dark. Hence after a few generations, most of the moths are dark -- though never ALL of them, because genetics don't work that way -- there will always be a certain number of genetic inheritance combinations that some moths will come up pale, and vice versa. The environmental surroundings change so that suddenly it's the dark ones that are more easily spotted by predators and the pale ones that survive to reproduce, and within a few generations, most are pale. This is not an "idea" that someone has pushed, it's like math: it happens.

An entomologist who is a proponent of "outsmarting" bug pests as opposed to using pesticides, explained it to me once very well -- that plants and insects (short life spans, rapid propagation) are constantly one-upping each other throught natural selection -- the bugs go after the plants, the plants "evolve" (through natural selection) a defense mechanism, the insects natural-select their way to defeat the defense, and so forth.

I am a Christian and have a deep belief in God, Christ, and faith in the bible's moral teachings. I believe the bible speaks in parables much of the time, especially in describing geologic events. God works His wonders in strange and mysterious ways. People who deny natural selection and evolution because it's Just Not the Way God Would Do It stump me -- who are they to say how God works His wonders, and who are they to say that Genesis doesn't speak in parables?

End rant

21 posted on 01/22/2005 3:05:00 PM PST by Finny (God continue to Bless President G.W. Bush with wisdom, popularity, safety and success.)
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To: Ernest_at_the_Beach

So, Antarctica is warming up and grass is growing. Interesting. It isn't like Antarctica was always covered in ice. I suppose that the "scientists" who are "warning" us about "global warming" have never seen the Piri Re'is Map of 1513 or the Oronteus Finaeus World Map of 1532. both show sub glacial areas of Antarctica, the Finaeus map moreso. Both maps were drawn using older source maps. Perhaps we are not looking at "global warming" but a shift of the Earth's axis.


22 posted on 01/22/2005 3:06:53 PM PST by Necrovore
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To: Ernest_at_the_Beach

Winter Rules?

23 posted on 01/22/2005 3:20:42 PM PST by FreedomFarmer (There was some amusement in the discovery that the hippy was dispatched with a dum-dum...)
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To: Ernest_at_the_Beach
King and his colleagues believe such trends could continue, possibly even raising winter temperatures on the peninsula from their past average of -10C to near freezing. Eventually this could give the peninsula a climate comparable to that of Scandinavia.

The last thing we need are more Scandinavians

24 posted on 01/22/2005 3:41:03 PM PST by CzarNicky (The problem with bad ideas is that they seemed like good ideas at the time.)
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To: Finny

A good rant.


25 posted on 01/22/2005 3:42:08 PM PST by Ernest_at_the_Beach (A Proud member of Free Republic ~~The New Face of the Fourth Estate since 1996.)
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To: LoneRangerMassachusetts
As I recall, most of Antarctica cooled quite a bit during the 90's but the big story was on the Antarctic peninsula where it was warming. Very selective reporting on the part of the green press.
26 posted on 01/22/2005 4:05:27 PM PST by Dan Evans
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To: Ernest_at_the_Beach

From Christian Science Monitor.
January 18, 2002

Guess what? Antarctica's getting colder, not warmer

... Dr. Dornan's study points to an average cooling of 0.7 degrees per decade from 1986 to 2000 at the McMurdo Dry Valleys Long-Term Ecological Research Station. Using estimates from British data taken since 1966, the team calculates that the cooling trend has been under way since at least that date."

The report, published in the current issue of the journal Nature, appears to confirm a study published last year in the Journal of Climate by Josephino Comiso, an atmospheric scientist at the National Aeronautics and Space Administration's Goddard Space Flight Center in Greenbelt, Md. Using satellite data for the months of January and July from 1979 to 1999, he reported a drop in the continent's average temperature that amounted to 0.4 degrees per decade.

http://www.christiansciencemonitor.com/2002/0118/p02s01-usgn.html


27 posted on 01/22/2005 4:13:46 PM PST by Dan Evans
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To: Dan Evans

Anybody try to grow grass in a cold climate.

Grass seeds are only good for a few years. The roots can recover if they are not frozen for 10,000 years. IE, this is such BS.

I really hate this junk science stuff and the worst thing is that it will become a known "fact" in no time, that grass is taking over Antartica (which has been frozen for 40 million years now.) It is such a battle for the scientific community to go against the stream when these factoids get reported so widely and become part of the cultural myths.


28 posted on 01/22/2005 4:22:38 PM PST by JustDoItAlways
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To: Kurt_D
Who wants to join me in setting up a cattle ranch in the real "down under"?

You "open range types" better stay outta muh way. I plan on running boatloads of rufugee Malaysian/Indonesian/Micronesian sod-busters there from their drowning islands.

Just a word of warning, Pilgrim: Remember what happened to Liberty Valence!

29 posted on 01/22/2005 4:31:57 PM PST by ApplegateRanch (The world needs more horses, and fewer Jackasses!)
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To: Kurt_D
*best Frankie Layne voice* "..Rollin, Rollin Rollin, Keep them doggies a' Rollin, keep them dogies Rollin, RAWHHHHIDE! " ...where's my Kayak? :^)
30 posted on 01/22/2005 4:51:59 PM PST by skinkinthegrass (Just because you're paranoid, doesn't mean they aren't out to get you :^)
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To: Ernest_at_the_Beach
This hasn't been the first time grass has been noticed growing on the Antarctic Peninsula"

"The island has a relatively diverse flora and luxuriant development of plant communities, representative of the southern maritime Antarctic region. The rich terrestrial biology of Lagotellerie Island was first noted by Herwil Bryant, biologist at East Base (US, on Stonington Island; now Historic Monument No. 55), during a visit in 1940-41 when he observed growths of moss, the Antarctic hair grass Deschampsia antarctica, and "a small flowering plant" (almost certainly the Antarctic pearlwort Colobanthus quitensis), in a small gully – believed to be that found at the north-eastern end of the island – which he considered of such unusual richness for the region that he unofficially referred to it as "Shangri-la Valley".

"He did not describe the less luxuriant but more extensive communities of Deschampsia antarctica and Colobanthus quitensis found on the higher north-facing slopes of the island. These slopes and terraces also provide favourable microclimatic conditions for growth, with a relatively long snow-free growing season, and support an abundance of Deschampsia antarctica and Colobanthus quitensis, the grass forming closed swards of up to 10 m2 on some of the terraces.

"These are among the largest stands of these plants known south of the South Shetland Islands. Both species flower abundantly and the seeds have a greater viability than those produced in the South Orkney or South Shetland Islands, yet they are close to the southern limit of their range. Lagotellerie Island, however, is notable for the growth of Deschampsia antarctica at the highest altitude recorded south of 56° S, with scattered small plants observed at heights of up to 275 m. Colobanthus quitensis has been observed growing up to 120 m on the island."

http://www.scar.org/publications/bulletins/143/spa19/
31 posted on 01/22/2005 4:58:11 PM PST by Dan Evans
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To: Ernest_at_the_Beach

There goes the neighborhood.


32 posted on 01/22/2005 5:24:16 PM PST by x1stcav (Hooahh!)
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To: farmfriend
RE: "It fascinates me to see the same people who push the idea of natural selection also proposing to keep nature at the status quo."

Yes...and by FORCE if necessary!


33 posted on 01/22/2005 7:53:20 PM PST by Seadog Bytes (Smart Growth...ISN'T!!!)
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To: Ernest_at_the_Beach

I wish global warming in the winter hit us here. This is one of the worst winters in a long long time here.


34 posted on 01/22/2005 7:55:05 PM PST by Dan from Michigan ("We clearly screwed up on the communications," Detroit Mayor Kilpatrick - after caught in a lie.)
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To: Dan from Michigan

Have you guys gotten above 10 degrees in the last month?


35 posted on 01/22/2005 9:01:15 PM PST by farmfriend ( Congratulations. You are everything we've come to expect from years of government training.)
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To: Finny
If you are implying that only environmentalists, atheists, and liberals "believe" in evolution, you are very much mistaken.

You are reading waaaaaay too much into my post. Please leave me out of the Evo/Creation debate raging on this forum.

36 posted on 01/22/2005 9:04:06 PM PST by farmfriend ( Congratulations. You are everything we've come to expect from years of government training.)
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To: farmfriend
Yeah...for about a day or two.

I'm a hunter so I can usually handle the cold, but this is BAD.

37 posted on 01/22/2005 9:07:38 PM PST by Dan from Michigan ("We clearly screwed up on the communications," Detroit Mayor Kilpatrick - after caught in a lie.)
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To: Ernest_at_the_Beach

And just, pray tell, did the grass seed come from? And enough of it to cover vast areas?


38 posted on 01/22/2005 9:12:01 PM PST by fella
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To: Dan from Michigan

So I hear from my friend in the UP. She said it was going to get down to -10 that one night. Actual temp.


39 posted on 01/22/2005 9:14:30 PM PST by farmfriend ( Congratulations. You are everything we've come to expect from years of government training.)
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To: Ernest_at_the_Beach
I don't know...it is rather beautiful though....

Looks more like a jellyfish than a spider.

40 posted on 01/22/2005 9:21:29 PM PST by farmfriend ( Congratulations. You are everything we've come to expect from years of government training.)
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To: Ernest_at_the_Beach

41 posted on 01/22/2005 9:26:43 PM PST by johnwayne (I)
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To: johnwayne; farmfriend; Dan Evans

So what is that.?....a naked sea spider?


42 posted on 01/22/2005 9:59:03 PM PST by Ernest_at_the_Beach (A Proud member of Free Republic ~~The New Face of the Fourth Estate since 1996.)
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To: Ernest_at_the_Beach

That looks more like the discription.


43 posted on 01/22/2005 10:06:17 PM PST by farmfriend ( Congratulations. You are everything we've come to expect from years of government training.)
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To: Dan Evans; farmfriend
From the article:

GRASS has become established in Antarctica for the first time,

From your link:

The island has a relatively diverse flora and luxuriant development of plant communities, representative of the southern maritime Antarctic region. >The rich terrestrial biology of Lagotellerie Island was first noted by Herwil Bryant, biologist at East Base (US, on Stonington Island; now Historic Monument No. 55), during a visit in 1940-41 when he observed growths of moss, the Antarctic hair grass Deschampsia antarctica, and "a small flowering plant" (almost certainly the Antarctic pearlwort Colobanthus quitensis), in a small gully – believed to be that found at the north-eastern end of the island – which he considered of such unusual richness for the region that he unofficially referred to it as "Shangri-la Valley". He did not describe the less luxuriant but more extensive communities of Deschampsia antarctica and Colobanthus quitensis found on the higher north-facing slopes of the island. These slopes and terraces also provide favourable microclimatic conditions for growth, with a relatively long snow-free growing season, and support an abundance of Deschampsia antarctica and Colobanthus quitensis, the grass forming closed swards of up to 10 m2 on some of the terraces. These are among the largest stands of these plants known south of the South Shetland Islands. Both species flower abundantly and the seeds have a greater viability than those produced in the South Orkney or South Shetland Islands, yet they are close to the southern limit of their range. Lagotellerie Island, however, is notable for the growth of Deschampsia antarctica at the highest altitude recorded south of 56° S, with scattered small plants observed at heights of up to 275 m. Colobanthus quitensis has been observed growing up to 120 m on the island.

Damn liars!!!!

44 posted on 01/22/2005 10:33:27 PM PST by Ernest_at_the_Beach (A Proud member of Free Republic ~~The New Face of the Fourth Estate since 1996.)
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To: farmfriend

BTTT!!!


45 posted on 01/23/2005 3:10:38 AM PST by E.G.C.
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To: Ernest_at_the_Beach; 1Old Pro; aardvark1; a_federalist; abner; alaskanfan; alloysteel; alfons; ...
Wow, more B.S. - I can hardly contain myself.

It's hard to believe that at a time when ice flows are growing so fast that island-sized icebergs are breaking off, and the bergs are threatening New Zealand's shipping lanes. Warming? couldn't we use some?

46 posted on 01/23/2005 12:50:15 PM PST by editor-surveyor (The Lord has given us President Bush; let's now turn this nation back to him)
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To: editor-surveyor
couldn't we use some?

My friend in Michigan thinks so.

47 posted on 01/23/2005 12:54:22 PM PST by farmfriend ( Congratulations. You are everything we've come to expect from years of government training.)
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To: Moonman62; WL-law
"Fear? When did grass become scary?
When did fear become part of the scientific method?"

When Ronald Reagan defeated the Soviet Union in the cold war, and the hopes of the world socialists overcoming the west were dashed.

48 posted on 01/23/2005 1:01:11 PM PST by editor-surveyor (The Lord has given us President Bush; let's now turn this nation back to him)
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To: editor-surveyor

BTT!!!!!!


49 posted on 01/23/2005 1:03:37 PM PST by E.G.C.
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To: Finny; Ernest_at_the_Beach
When God speakes in parables, he specifically tells us so.

Did you really mean allegory? - A study of Hebrew will alleviate such nonsense; the days of Genesis were normal days, not some other period. ("the evening and the morning were the ___ day")

50 posted on 01/23/2005 1:09:04 PM PST by editor-surveyor (The Lord has given us President Bush; let's now turn this nation back to him)
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