Posted on 01/23/2005 4:03:14 AM PST by nickcarraway
Sure there are... and the following web site lists at least 6 different families of antibiotics with mulitple antibiotics within each one.
Even if the cattle are using the exact same kinds, you need to show that bacteria are being transfered from the cattle to humans. Nobody makes that claim for MRSP. We know that it is primarily spread in hospitals, which makes Hosptial hygiene the primary culprit.
The fallacy in your observation is that physicians and nurses are not interchangable.
Okay, you had me agreeing with you till there. How does a homosexual's compromised immunity system create more bacteria? Actually, isn't it the opposite. Once they die their compromised system is taken out of the equation.
I also believe that the anti-biotics are making it into our systems through the meat. Do you believe that the growth hormones they use don't make it through either?
Don't you know that different bacteria can share the resistence? Well, the dogma of free market religion is that pursuit of profit cannot cause any harm.
Because there is no or a weakened immune response it gives the bacteria not only a place to thrive, but to become progessively more immune both to the body and to any drugs used to treat the patient. The damage is done while the patient is still a live and becomes a breeding ground for bacteria.
AIDS has been clearly linked to a resurgence in certain diseases such as TB that the country was previously winning against in terms of progressively fewer cases each year. I believe MRSP has been clinically linked to AIDS as well.
I also believe that the anti-biotics are making it into our systems through the meat. Do you believe that the growth hormones they use don't make it through either?
I seriously doubt that antibiotics make it in into our systems from meat in any significant quantity.
?I'm not sure about growth harmones, but if they stopped feeding them a few days before slaughter, I doubt there would be any significant transmission of them.
You are close. To breed the resistent staing of germs you need to use lower dose of antibiotic so bacterias can survive and grow.
And so the WORST offender is cattle feed with VERY low levels of antibiotic which is intended NOT TO KILL germs but to improve weight gain by a small margin!!!
And the scale of this feed use is ORDERS HIGHER that for sick people.
Can't the same argument be made about the use of anti-biotics in animals? Aren't we creating resistant strains of bacterium in animals that can be transmitted to humans? Bacterium don't care whether you are an animal or a human. Overuse of anti-biotics in animals may not transfer the resistance through the food but it seem likely that creating resistant strains of bacteria in animals means that humans can become infected by those same strains.
This type infection cost my mother both of her legs.
Actually I agree with most of what you posted. I also think that overuse of antibiotics, whether in animals or humans, is dangerous.
I don't mean to say there is no risk with pumping animals full of antibiotics. Clearly there are.
I don't think MSRP is in any way related. I don't think any germs other than E. Coli are being transmitted through meat and that is improperly handled meat.
I don't think significant quantities of either antibiotics or growth hormones are being transferred, but it should be studied and protective measures should be in place such as delays between treatment and slaughter.
But the dangerous E. Coli strands probably are related to antibiotic use in animals. And there is the risk that we will create something that can attack both cows and humans, so we probably need stricter measures.
ping
This is much WORSE than "pumping animals full of antibiotics" or abusing antibiotics for human use. The animals get specially LOW doses which allow resistent strains to grow and get stronger.
I don't think MSRP is in any way related. I don't think any germs other than E. Coli are being transmitted through meat and that is improperly handled meat.
THIS IS NOT THE POINT. Once the resistent strains of ANY bacteria are created (including the HARMLESS bacteria) they can be SHARED between the species. Read this please:
Because to survive AIDS, they pretty much live on constant doses of antibiotics --- antibiotics are only meant to assist your immune system --- not replace it. Bacteria are supposed to be slowed down in growth --- many antibiotics only do that --- they don't kill the bacteria. The body's immune system is then supposed to do the rest.
With AIDS, there is no immune system, the bacteria remain --- exposed to all kinds of antibiotics and adjust to their presense --- even sometimes mutating to be enhanced by their presence. The same goes for antibiotics used in the meat supply --- the bacteria become immune to them by mutating.
Well, a relatively new trend is the waterless anti-microbial type hand rinse near the room entry ways. Of course, if you can't get staff to wash their hands, you might not get them to use the waterless type hand cleaners either.It needs to become habit....and the culture of your facility.
FWIW-
1) Again, there are different kinds of anti-biotics. Cutting back the use of antibiotics in animals is probably a wise step. At the very least, we should make sure we aren't creating a resistance to a drug we expect to need for humans.
2) But it might also be possible to limit the likelihood of resistant strains migrating. We could limit the transfer of animals from farms where antibiotics are used.
3) It may be possible to breed weaker strands that eliminate the resistant ones. Much the way we take acidophilus supplements to replace good bacteria after antibiotic use.
4) I'm not convinced that resistant mutant strains are created though. Bacteria have some resistance to many toxins naturally. I'm not sure that we are creating "mutant" strains with new resistance or simply breeding thoroughbred bacteria with their genetic potential for resistance maximized. I'm not sold on the Japanesse work yet, but I'll keep an open mind.
Evolution of Antibiotic resistance
We do need to study and understand the R-plasmid scenario better though and take preventive actions where appropriate.
But not so many and each is too valuable to waste it on the improving the profit margin by a penny on a pound of meat.
While I wont dispute that the dairy industry uses anti-biotics on their herds in large quanities, the problem is the wide use of anti-biotics in human use. A vast majority of us do not come into contact with dairy cattle enough for it to make a difference. The wide use of anti-biotics for mearly sympatic issues is just an examble of our whole drug culture in the country and the desire of doctors wanting to give their paitents something just to make them feel better but wont actually improve their condition.
Also hospital are prime breading grounds for MSRI's as they tend to use the same anti-biotics to treat infections. Eventially something survives and that's the only strain that grows in that environment, another anti-biotic is used and this time kills another 99.99% of the bacteria, that 0.01% is then immune to both AB's have been used on it. Add to the fact that it's impossible to have a perfectly sterile environment, what happens is the only bacteria that can survive around those AB's is the one that ends up causing the infections.
As a former ER RN, you are exactly right.
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