Posted on 01/26/2005 9:46:21 AM PST by 7thson
That may be, but they certainly weren't atheists.
Note that I'm not commenting on the validity of NDE's. Only pointing out that, of NDE claims, there are in fact documented cases of "bad" experiences by people other than atheists.
OKay you saw nothing right? You are going to discount the hundreds of others that have died and have saw the White light that experienced the most wonderul feeling uncomparable to life on earth, these are documented cases
all over the world.
I would think that your temporary death made you at least think of where your going as a un-believer in GOD.
And also MM
What is your choice upon your final death? to become dirt that's it? or the possibility on being in Eternal Paradise with the lord?
One could just as easily say that you are discounting the hundreds of reports of those who had NDE's who didn't experience anything.
All of this is anecdotal in any event, and none of it proves anything.
What do you make, though, of positive NDE accounts by non-Christians?
God is God and Hitler is Hitler.
God punished what he made. When you make something out of nothing with a will of its own, tell us your pedagogy.
That monument is a grave which has the religious orientation of those memorialized marked as atheist. It is no more an atheist monument than a grave of a shoemaker is a monument to shoes.
I see you're new here.
If you really want to understand the Bible, you should attend a regular Bible study to study it with Christians. Otherwise, you'll end up continuing along a path of sheer ignorance, constructing falsehoods in your mind and reflecting them in your posts.
I do believe anyone of any faith that has lived a good life has expereinced the White Light in NDE, I have read and listened to many people that are from different religious backgrounds say they all have one thing in common they all Believed in GOD (Creator of Heaven and Earth) and they all witnessed a Whie Light or something similar
There has never been a documented case of an Atheist or a person denying the exsistence of GOD that had a experience of PEACE or the white light it's either negative or as Mineral Man stated a "Nothingness"
I don't think you know what a Christian is. All I'm saying is that people don't trust atheists because your values aren't rooted in anything. So they don't vote for people who espouse it.
"OKay you saw nothing right? You are going to discount the hundreds of others that have died and have saw the White light that experienced the most wonderul feeling uncomparable to life on earth, these are documented cases
all over the world.
"
Without speaking to those others personally, I have no idea what happened to them. I do not just accept second-hand information regarding things like this.
As for your other questions, they are non-questions to me. I cannot CHOOSE to believe something I cannot believe. It's that simple.
You believe, and that's just fine. I cannot.
"I guess what I meant to say is that from what I have read the nicest Atheist who lived a noble life upon a temporary NDE it was always negative a horrible experience.
"
You have read only second-hand accounts, I'm afraid. I've just given you a first-hand account. Take care that you do not believe everything you read, even on supposedly Christian websites. Lies are told in the name of Christianity. Those who tell them may well not be real Christians, but you cannot always trust everything you read on some website or in a book.
I have first-hand knowledge, and I have shared it with you. It does not match what you claim.
That's a Cop Out Mineral Man...
Your looking for Solid Proof in my opinion, as a human being if you knew upon your final death that you had a choice of turning into dirt or spending an eternity in Paradise your choice would be paradise,you are CHOOSING which I think is the key word here to beleive you are turning to dirt because you don't have solid proof you are going to Paradise, well you also don't have solid proof your turning into dirt.
So no matter what kind of monument could be erected to atheism, you're going to just deny what it is? That's fine I guess. I'm still not sure what the point is - if your contention is true that it is not possible to erect a monument to atheism, what does that imply? I don't see that it's really that meaningful, even if you were right.
Wrong again being in the medical and nusring field for many years I have witnessed people have NDE and have heard them speak of what was happening to them when breathing and brain waves ceased to exsist.
The Bible tells me where I am going and it says nothing about going to Jupiter for your information.
I have the Bible? what do you have your GUESS? what the heck, that sure is a comforting feeling, guarantee this your going to die if you feel comfortable just guessing where your going that is your chice
GOD gave us all Free Will....
"Your looking for Solid Proof in my opinion, as a human being if you knew upon your final death that you had a choice of turning into dirt or spending an eternity in Paradise your choice would be paradise,you are CHOOSING which I think is the key word here to beleive you are turning to dirt because you don't have solid proof you are going to Paradise, well you also don't have solid proof your turning into dirt.
"
Well, I advise caution in telling people what they think. Generally, you're wrong when you do so. I have not chosen disbelief, but since I do disbelieve, there is no choice involved.
I have observed what happens to living creatures when they die. Through the action of various other living creatures, including bacteria, they are reduced, over time, to non-existence. That, I know to be true from observation.
I have not observed any other events following the death of a living creature. You have a belief system that includes reward or punishment after death. That's fine. Others believe in reincarnation in one form or another. That is their belief, and they hold it just as strongly as you hold yours.
It seems a natural phenomenon that thinking creatures would ponder what happens when they die. And so they have. Each religion has a different "answer" to this natural question. Each religion can point to its scriptures to support that "answer." All of that is fine, and serves a valuable purpose. Whether you believe that you will attain some sort of paradise or return to live in another form, it probably helps you combat some sort of fear. That's a good thing.
Having observed the process of life, death, and decay, however, I know quite well what will happen to me when I die. I certainly don't wish for it, but I recognize it as a reality.
There is no evidence that any other thing happens. None. There are beliefs regarding events occurring after the death of an individual, but no real evidence to support them.
If you are able to believe that you will continue to be in some form after the death of your body, more power to you. I am unable to believe any such thing.
Having been through a near death experience, I am more convinced than ever that life ends altogether on the death of an individual. I saw nothing, felt nothing, knew nothing. Had I not been revived, I would have ceased to exist. That would have been a tragic thing for those who love me, but irrelevant to me, since I would no longer be there.
I don't form my beliefs based on scriptural writings, nor do I form them based on mythologies about supernatural entities. I form my beliefs from experience and from the confirmable experiences of others.
There's a lot of literature regarding NDEs. You are apparently only reading Christian-based literature on the subject. There is other information, much of it peer-reviewed. You might want to look into it, if you're able to.
I'm done with the discussion of NDEs and my own experiences at this point. I'm not attempting to discourage your beliefs...you're welcome to them.
I would like to see a monument that reflects and glorifies atheism, in the same way as crosses and chapels reflect and glorify Christianity, statues of Buddha glorify Buddhism, and flag-carrying American Eagles glorify the USA.
In a peevish moment I suggested that a coil of rusty barbed wire would be a good monument to what atheism brought us. But I am not an atheist, so my artistic choices don't count.
There was some imagery recruited by the atheists to the service. There is a novel that pretends to describe a victim to the Holy Inquisition, "The Gadfly". There is Giordano Bruno burning on the stake. These were exploited by the comissars to what they are worth. But I don't recall monuments to Bruno or the Gadfly in the Soviet Union, perhaps because Bruno was, of course, a God-fearing Christian and Gadfly, er, did not exist.
The reason it is important is philosophical: atheism if about what is presumed not to exist. Hence it has no symbolism and no motivating power. Since people drawn to atheism are still people, they fill the need to glorify their worldview just like the rest of us. Some, -- not all -- turn to ugly bumper stickers, which is the topic on hand.
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