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Gilgamesh Tomb Believed Found
AINA/BBC ^ | 1-25-2005

Posted on 01/30/2005 2:51:03 PM PST by blam

Gilgamesh Tomb Believed Found

Posted 01-25-2005 10:02:40 (GMT 1-25-2005

(BBC) -- Archaeologists in Iraq believe they may have found the lost tomb of King Gilgamesh - the subject of the oldest "book" in history.

The Epic Of Gilgamesh - written by a Middle Eastern scholar 2,500 years before the birth of Christ - commemorated the life of the ruler of the city of Uruk, from which Iraq gets its name.

Now, a German-led expedition has discovered what is thought to be the entire city of Uruk - including, where the Euphrates once flowed, the last resting place of its famous King.

"I don't want to say definitely it was the grave of King Gilgamesh, but it looks very similar to that described in the epic," Jorg Fassbinder, of the Bavarian department of Historical Monuments in Munich, told the BBC World Service's Science in Action programme.

Magnetic

In the book - actually a set of inscribed clay tablets - Gilgamesh was described as having been buried under the Euphrates, in a tomb apparently constructed when the waters of the ancient river parted following his death.

"We found just outside the city an area in the middle of the former Euphrates river? the remains of such a building which could be interpreted as a burial," Mr Fassbinder said.

He said the amazing discovery of the ancient city under the Iraqi desert had been made possible by modern technology.

"By differences in magnetisation in the soil, you can look into the ground," Mr Fassbinder added.

"The difference between mudbricks and sediments in the Euphrates river gives a very detailed structure."

This creates a magnetogram, which is then digitally mapped, effectively giving a town plan of Uruk.

'Venice in the desert'

"The most surprising thing was that we found structures already described by Gilgamesh," Mr Fassbinder stated.

"We covered more than 100 hectares. We have found garden structures and field structures as described in the epic, and we found Babylonian houses."

But he said the most astonishing find was an incredibly sophisticated system of canals.

"Very clearly, we can see in the canals some structures showing that flooding destroyed some houses, which means it was a highly developed system.

"[It was] like Venice in the desert."


TOPICS: News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: archaeology; archeology; believed; blacksea; blackseaflood; epicofgilgamesh; found; ggg; gilgamesh; godsgravesglyphs; grandcanyon; greatflood; history; iraq; iraqhistory; noah; noahsflood; tomb; tombofgilgamesh
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Abraham was from the seaside town of Ur, it is presently about 100 miles inland. I'll see if I can find a map of Uruk.
1 posted on 01/30/2005 2:51:03 PM PST by blam
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To: SunkenCiv
GGG Ping.

Found this:

Ancient Uruk


2 posted on 01/30/2005 2:53:45 PM PST by blam
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To: blam

This is not a new story. I used it in a report I gave in the fall. They have discovered this a while ago.

It is a very interesting discovery.


3 posted on 01/30/2005 2:54:59 PM PST by Snapple
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To: blam

Opps, I thought you said Gragamel... :D
4 posted on 01/30/2005 3:00:03 PM PST by Echo Talon (http://echotalon.blogspot.com/)
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To: blam
Gilgamesh !!!!!!

That Guy Still Owes Me Money!
5 posted on 01/30/2005 3:00:17 PM PST by cmsgop
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To: Echo Talon

Gargamel even...


6 posted on 01/30/2005 3:00:40 PM PST by Echo Talon (http://echotalon.blogspot.com/)
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To: blam
If I remember my comparative literature from over 40 years ago I believe The Epic Of Gilgamesh told a story of a great flood and that it was a work thought to corroborate the Bible. Am I correct? If so, I would love to hear if they found anything else related to the flood story.
7 posted on 01/30/2005 3:01:01 PM PST by Cornpone (Aging Warrior -- Aim High -- Hit'em in the Head)
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To: Snapple

Ancient Sumer

8 posted on 01/30/2005 3:01:20 PM PST by blam
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To: blam
I always thought the oldest Book was about Beer, and that it had a recipe for Beer as well as a story about the downfall of a leader because he got drunk and was easy pickings for a practitioner of the oldest profession, is it the same book?
9 posted on 01/30/2005 3:01:31 PM PST by TexasTransplant (NEMO ME IMPUNE LACESSET)
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To: blam

The ancient Sumerians (Gilgamesh was Sumerian) dug irrigation ditches all over their land and these were also used as roads--as in Venice.

The city was also called Warka and there is a very famous Warka Vase in the Bagdhad Museum. It was stolen during the American invasion, but the boys who stole it were forced to bring it back by their mother. She found it under their bed and said she would kill herself if they didn't take it right back. So they did.

The Warka Vase is like the Rosetta Stone for Iraq. It is an early example of storytelling in pictures. IT is a tall vase with comicbook like frames that show pictues about the culture, agriculture, religion.


10 posted on 01/30/2005 3:02:35 PM PST by Snapple
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To: blam
...a German-led expedition has discovered what is thought to be the entire city of Uruk ...

Is that where the Uruk Hai come from?


11 posted on 01/30/2005 3:03:01 PM PST by FReepaholic (Proud FReeper since 1998. Proud monthly donor.)
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To: Cornpone

That is one theory that has been posited in an attempt to explain the otherwise supernatural characteristics of "the flood." No one knows for sure, though.


12 posted on 01/30/2005 3:04:52 PM PST by Ghost of Philip Marlowe (Liberals are blind. They are the dupes of Leftists who know exactly what they're doing.)
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To: blam

I thought the Germans were too scared to be in Iraq.


13 posted on 01/30/2005 3:06:00 PM PST by xrp (Executing assigned posting duties flawlessly -- ZERO mistakes)
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To: Snapple
..there's no such thing as OLD HISTORY...only a liberal, wouldn't understand. :))
14 posted on 01/30/2005 3:06:59 PM PST by skinkinthegrass (Just because you're paranoid, doesn't mean they aren't out to get you :^)
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To: Cornpone
"I believe The Epic Of Gilgamesh told a story of a great flood and that it was a work thought to corroborate the Bible. Am I correct?"

Yes/no. The Gilgamesh flood story predates the Bibical story. There are at least five different flood stories in this region. One predates the Gilgamesh story by at least five hundred years.

The Flood Of Noah And The Flood Of Gilgamesh

15 posted on 01/30/2005 3:07:01 PM PST by blam
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To: TexasTransplant

Outside of religious texts, the Bible etc., the first recorded name in human history was that of Gilgamesh.


16 posted on 01/30/2005 3:08:43 PM PST by Land_of_Lincoln_John
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To: tscislaw

Uruk Hai is where the kids of Uruk graduated before going on to college.


17 posted on 01/30/2005 3:08:46 PM PST by Lokibob (All typos and spelling errors are mine and copyrighted!!!!)
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To: blam

Thank you.


18 posted on 01/30/2005 3:09:15 PM PST by Cornpone (Aging Warrior -- Aim High -- Hit'em in the Head)
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To: blam

Holy crap! If this pans out it would be one of the most signifigant finds in archaeological history!


19 posted on 01/30/2005 3:09:15 PM PST by Zeroisanumber
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To: blam

Its just a model.


20 posted on 01/30/2005 3:13:26 PM PST by raygun
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To: Snapple
Dr Oppenheimer has an interesting take in his excellent book, Eden In The East

Editorial Reviews

From Kirkus Reviews

In an exhaustively researched and creatively argued reassessment of mankind's origins, British physician Oppenheimer, an expert in tropical pediatrics, contends that the now-submerged area of Southeast Asia was the cradle of ancient civilization. From time to time, scholars from various disciplines have argued for the existence of a vastly old ``founder civilization.'' Among the most famous was Charles Hapgood, who based his theory of a lost seafaring civilization on his analysis of the famous 16th-century ``Piri Re'is'' maps of the Antarctic land mass. In this tradition, Oppenheimer blends evidence from geology, genetics, linguistics, archaeology, and anthropology to argue persuasively that such a civilization existed on a submerged land mass in Southeast Asia, which geologists call the Sunda shelf. Pointing to geological evidence for the submersion of the shelf by abrupt rises in the sea level about 8,000 years ago, Oppenheimer contends that the coastal cultures of Southeast Asia were drowned by a great flood, reflected in flood mythologies scattered from the ancient Middle East (such as the biblical story of Noah) to Australia and the Americas. According to the author, tantalizing archaeological evidence exists of settlements under a ``silt curtain'' left by the sea floods in drowned coastal regions from Southeast Asia to the Middle East, while linguistic markers indicate that languages spread from Southeast Asia to Australia and the Pacific. The shared flood story is one striking example of similar Eurasian myths according to the author; the ancient Middle East and Asia share other myth typologies, conspicuously including creation and Cain and Abel myths, which point to common origins in a progenitor culture. Absorbing, meticulously researched, limpidly written, and authoritative: should be regarded as a groundbreaking study of the remote past of Southeast Asia, and of civilization itself.

21 posted on 01/30/2005 3:13:56 PM PST by blam
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To: raygun
Its just a model.

Shhhhh! Bloody Peasant!

22 posted on 01/30/2005 3:15:38 PM PST by GaltMeister (The only time a Democrat should be allowed in the White House is to visit the President.)
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To: blam; Cornpone
Yes/no. The Gilgamesh flood story predates the Bibical story.

The following analysis shows that the Biblical story must have been the original and Gilgamesh borrows from it.

Noah and Gilgamesh

23 posted on 01/30/2005 3:22:30 PM PST by DannyTN
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To: Lokibob
...Uruk Hai is where the kids of Uruk graduated before going on to college...

LOL!

24 posted on 01/30/2005 3:23:21 PM PST by FReepaholic (Proud FReeper since 1998. Proud monthly donor.)
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To: blam; SJackson; Alouette

BTTT


25 posted on 01/30/2005 3:23:39 PM PST by Fiddlstix (This Tagline for sale. (Presented by TagLines R US))
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To: blam
The interesting thing about Gilgamesh is that he was King after "Kingship was Restored". What does that mean?
26 posted on 01/30/2005 3:24:29 PM PST by Little Bill (A 37%'r, a Red Spot on a Blue State)
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To: TexasTransplant

That's probably the oldest book in Texas.


27 posted on 01/30/2005 3:27:34 PM PST by DannyTN
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To: DannyTN; blam
Thank you. If you read the conclusions of the Lorey paper it too states that in all probability the Bible's story probably predates that of the Gilgamesh Epic.

"From the early days of the comparative study of these two flood accounts, it has been generally agreed that there is an obvious relationship. The widespread nature of flood traditions throughout the entire human race is excellent evidence for the existence of a great flood from a legal/historical point of view.20 Dating of the oldest fragments of the Gilgamesh account originally indicated that it was older than the assumed dating of Genesis.21 However, the probability exists that the Biblical account had been preserved either as an oral tradition, or in written form handed down from Noah, through the patriarchs and eventually to Moses, thereby making it actually older than the Sumerian accounts which were restatements (with alterations) to the original."

28 posted on 01/30/2005 3:28:28 PM PST by Cornpone (Aging Warrior -- Aim High -- Hit'em in the Head)
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To: DannyTN
 That's probably the oldest book in Texas.
 
I'm sure it is, the guy that wrote it came from a Dry County in Tennessee!

29 posted on 01/30/2005 3:33:00 PM PST by TexasTransplant (NEMO ME IMPUNE LACESSET)
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To: TexasTransplant
"I'm sure it is, the guy that wrote it came from a Dry County in Tennessee!"

LOL No Doubt!!!

30 posted on 01/30/2005 3:34:51 PM PST by DannyTN
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To: Cornpone
I read about the various flood stories in a book titled Noah's Flood by Ryan & Pittman that speculate the Black Sea flood 7,600 years ago was Noah's flood. See Here.

Other:

Flood Stories From Around The World

31 posted on 01/30/2005 3:38:57 PM PST by blam
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To: Cornpone

I teach this epic.

Gilgamesh was a harsh king who raped other men's brides, so the gods heard the prayers of the people and sent Gilgamesh a cave man named Enkidu to absorb his energies. They go an a quest.

Gilgamesh and his sidekick Enkidu slay a giant named Humbaba who guards the cedar forest. The god of light, Shamash, helps them prevail by sending winds from four sides that pin down the giant. Humbaba controls fire, so this is like the Greek Prometheus legend. Gilgamesh conquers fire when he kills the guardian of the forest Humbaba.

Enkidu has a dream about a gloomy underworld where even kings eat dirt and work as servants. He dies having complained about how unfair it is that he must go to the gloomy underworld even tho' he slayed Humbaba with the help of the god of light, Shamash.

After Enkidu dies, Gilgamesh goes on a quest for eternal life as a man. He is 2/3 god and thinks he deserves more than the underworld. He visits the Mesopotamian Noah, Unapishtim, who was given eternal life as a man (he lives forever) because he survived a flood. Gilgamesh wants Unapishtim's advice about how to get eternal life.

The gods sent a flood because man was too noisy. However, one god, Ea, the sly god of the waters, warned Unapishtim the flood was coming. Ea was not supposed to tell the gods' plan, but he was also loyal to Unapishtim; so he told Unapishtim's house walls, and the walls told Unapishtim in a dream. This is more understandable when you know that their houses were made of woven reeds. Basically giant upturned baskets. Whatever Ea said to the walls would have gone right into the house.

Unapishtim builds an ark like in the Bible. The other gods are horrified by the flood and the death of mankind. They get mad at the mean god Enlil who sent the flood. Unapishtim gets eternal life on earth as a man from the remorseful gods.

Gilgamesh is tested by Unapishtim and is found undeserving of eternal life. He can't stay awake for even a week, so how could he live forever?

Still, Unapishtim relents a bit tells Gilgamesh where he can get a flower that gives man eternal life. Gilgamesh gets this flower under a deep channel in the water, but a snake steals it when Gilgamesh is taking a nice bath.

Gilgamesh is devastated. He had wanted to be a savior to his people and give them eternal life. (Get that?) Initially Gilgamesh had started his quest for his own immortality, but he had matured and wanted to give his people eternal life.

Gilgamesh is very sad, but when he gets to his walled city in a boat on a canal, he shows the ferryman all the magnificent features of the wall.

The narrator suggests that Gilgamesh had a kind of immortality because he built a wall that protected his people.

In 5600 BC, the Black Sea, which had been a fresh water lake, was innundated by salt water from the Medeterranean.
Russians and American scientists have proved this because all the freshwater shellfish at a certain depth in the sea bed died at the same time.The water flooded a lot of land around the Black Sea. This happened very fast.

This could have been the source of the flood story. On the other hand, massive flash flooding is a big problem is Mesopotamia. The rivers have changed their channels many times because of it. This caused cities to die and new cities to be born.

They had all these canals to keep water for agriculture.
The need to cooperate to build the irrigation ditches may have prompted the creation of cities.

The British Museum has the Gilgamesh clay tablets. The writing is cunieform. The Flood Story is on display just opposite the Rosetta Stone.


32 posted on 01/30/2005 3:39:05 PM PST by Snapple
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To: blam

Yes---this is the book I was citing from. The authors also wrote an article in a magazine. Perhaps Science/Nature.

This is a very interesting book.

The Black Sea flooded about 5600 BC.

The ancients did date everything before the Flood and after the Flood, just as we date everything from before Jesus and after Jesus.


33 posted on 01/30/2005 3:42:52 PM PST by Snapple
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To: tscislaw

Being Hai was one of the reasons some kids didn't graduate from Urak Hai.


34 posted on 01/30/2005 3:44:34 PM PST by ProudVet77 (Survivor of the great blizzard of aught five)
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To: skinkinthegrass

What I meant was that this discovery didn't just happen. I only know because I gave a speech that included this story last fall.


35 posted on 01/30/2005 3:47:25 PM PST by Snapple
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To: ProudVet77

Say, I've heard that the world's smartest woman, the
Senator from New York, speaks cunieform.


36 posted on 01/30/2005 3:48:16 PM PST by tet68 ( " We would not die in that man's company, that fears his fellowship to die with us...." Henry V.)
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To: blam
Archaeologists in Iraq believe they may have found the lost tomb of King Gilgamesh - the subject of the oldest "book" in history.

I thought Helen Thomas' diary was the oldest book in history.

37 posted on 01/30/2005 3:49:07 PM PST by GreenHornet
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To: tet68
You mean UpChuck Schumer? The other senator is the one with the testosterone.
38 posted on 01/30/2005 3:50:34 PM PST by ProudVet77 (Survivor of the great blizzard of aught five)
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To: Snapple
The British Museum has the Gilgamesh clay tablets. The writing is cunieform. The Flood Story is on display just opposite the Rosetta Stone.

Their are multiple ancient versions though, most with minor differences but apparently there are a couple with major divergences according to translators although they hadn't published the full texts last I heard.

39 posted on 01/30/2005 3:51:05 PM PST by Androcles
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To: ProudVet77

No I meant the female senator, the one who's a
cunning linguist.


40 posted on 01/30/2005 3:52:13 PM PST by tet68 ( " We would not die in that man's company, that fears his fellowship to die with us...." Henry V.)
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To: blam

Artists Depiction of the Ziggurat at Ur
41 posted on 01/30/2005 3:52:48 PM PST by exhaustedmomma (Tancredo said Bush's guest-worker proposal is "a pig with lipstick")
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To: Carry_Okie


42 posted on 01/30/2005 3:54:06 PM PST by farmfriend ( Congratulations. You are everything we've come to expect from years of government training.)
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To: xrp
"I thought the Germans were too scared to be in Iraq."

Nah, it's only the German politicians and military. German archeologists are fearless.

43 posted on 01/30/2005 3:54:11 PM PST by Wonder Warthog (The Hog of Steel)
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To: tet68

Cunieform is a wedge-shaped writing; it's not a language.


44 posted on 01/30/2005 3:54:28 PM PST by Snapple
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To: Androcles

This is the written version that has the flood story.
It's the authoritative version. This is the one in the school books.


45 posted on 01/30/2005 3:55:59 PM PST by Snapple
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To: Androcles

The flood story excited the archeologists who dug up the clay tablets in the ruins of the Assyrian King Asherbanipal's library.

The story survived three cultures--Sumerian, Babylonians and Assyrian. (Susan B. Anthony).

The Sumerians had Gilgamesh stories but the Babylonians put them into a unified epic.


46 posted on 01/30/2005 3:59:22 PM PST by Snapple
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To: Snapple

The one I'd heard reports of are also written cuneiform tablets, form Iraq over the last few years although still incoplete. I'll have to see if I can find the link.


47 posted on 01/30/2005 4:08:03 PM PST by Androcles
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To: blam
Well your #21 moves quite a way off the Gilgamesh story.

In my view, there is no doubt that the Utnapishtim story preserves an oral tradition of Noah--you don't have too much difficulty with that because Noah and his family who all had first hand knowledge lived long after the flood.

The difficulty is presented by Gilgamesh himself. Who was he?

Noah lived 350 years after the flood. His son Shem, was still alive at the age of 446; Noah's grandson Arphaxad was 346 years old at the time of his grandfather's death.

Falstich has the Post Flood Summarian King's List starting less than 100 years after the flood but the first king is in Kish; the Sumarian's are united under the King in Urak about 75 years later so in Falstich's timeline, Gilgamesh would fall somewhere between 100 and 175 years after the flood.

Assuming 25 year generations (birth of the father to birth of the son), Gilgamesh could have been four or five generations removed from Noah and might well have located his great-great-great grandfather to have received the account denominated Utnapishtim.

Sure the Utnapishtim story is a little off the precise account in Genesis which Moses received from God but Noah was old; Gilgamesh was writing with a chisel, not a word processer.

Hapgood's analysis is intesting but speculative. The Summerian King's list (prior to the flood) has Summer in the same area. Other descriptions such as the rivers out of Eden; Eve's tomb in Mecca; and other artificats that predate the flood imply a common location.

The stories in Southeast Asia and the Pacific presumably migrated there with the population expansion. No doubt though that the flood is in the common history of ancient man--and the flood is not some local flood in the Black Sea.

48 posted on 01/30/2005 4:36:58 PM PST by David
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To: Snapple
This story was posted here in 2003.
49 posted on 01/30/2005 4:57:46 PM PST by perform_to_strangers
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To: David
"Well your #21 moves quite a way off the Gilgamesh story. "

Yes, I have been persuaded by Oppenheimer's argument. Prior to this change, I was a Black Sea as Noah's Flood story person

"The stories in Southeast Asia and the Pacific presumably migrated there with the population expansion. No doubt though that the flood is in the common history of ancient man--and the flood is not some local flood in the Black Sea."

The amazing thing, the expansion came from SE Asia. The original Caucasians probably came from China. And, Oppenheimer says the Gilgamesh writings mentions immigrants from the east ("wise men from the east"), I've not read Gilgamesh.

Dr Robert Schoch, (geologist/geophysist), has a book titled, Voyages Of The Pyramid Builders, that essentially has the same theme, that the world's first/great civilizations were 'seeded' from SE Asia, 7-8,000 years ago. (That was when the last Ice Age melt/surge occurred.) Both interesting and thought provoking books. I've just completed Oppenheimer's most recent book too, Out Of Eden.

50 posted on 01/30/2005 5:02:38 PM PST by blam
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