“The White Man’s Burden”: Kipling’s Hymn to U.S. Imperialism

George Mason University ^ | 02/01/1899 | Rudyard Kipling

[cyborg]

Agreed.

[wardaddy]

I like Kipling ....I'm sure anyone who knows me here is absolutely shocked by that admission.

He knew his tribe.

W/O looking ahead, I'm going to bet the race hustlas are downthread preening....hope I'm wrong.

[cyborg]

You sound like my mother!

[Cronos]

The British Empire was not a mistake, without it the world would be infinitely worse, but no empire lasts for ever.

Did I say that? No. I said that it was not a case of the Brits going out sayign "Ah what can I do to make the world better today". No, they went to enrich themselves and many times they ended up causing problems. On the whole they ended up on the positive side but still many of the problems created by that empire linger on -- the cross-tribal national divisios in Africa, Northern Ireland, Pakistan, Kashmir, Iraq (a creation ofthe brits), the Durand line in Afghnanistan-Pakistan, the Palestine problem etc.

And if you are implying that America does not act in it's self-interest then you are wrong. American policy has benefits for the world, and it's democracies, but it would do nothing if it did not help itself first.

Did i say that? No. My post was not directed at American policies at all, just at the poem.

[Cronos]

well, actually, I'd put the Belgians at the bottom looking at what they did to the Congo. the French are pretty close though! What with Indo-China (Vietnam, Cambodia, etc), Algeria, West Africa etc. etc.

[Red Sea Swimmer]

"The Butterfly that Stamped" by Rudyard Kipling is great little story full of much wisdom.

Kipling was an excellent writer.

[cyborg]

Definately agree on that...I wonder what King Leopold's hell is like? Hmmm....

[Phsstpok]

By the way

I LOVE your mother.

And if that's you... pardon me, but... Just DAMN

[Cronos]

It doesn't make 'white men' better than other humans, merely the ones who got to a civilized state first.

Well, actually, "White" men didn't get to a civilised state first -- it was "brown" and "yellow" men in Egypt, Mesopotamia, Canaan, India, China who reached there first. But then, if by Whtie you mean Caucasian, you're partly correct as Mesopotamians, Canaanites and indians were and are caucasians and the Egyptians were partly caucasian.

[cyborg]

LOL that is me.

[cyborg]

America is great because it has most every nation's best and brightest talent thanks to all the opportunity. If a nation's best leaves, not much is left behind but I'm just speculating.

[OkieDoke]

Anyone especially interested in this subject might check out Niall Ferguson's `Empire'. (Conservative Book Club, on sale) I was surprised to learn that one of Ghandi's favorite poems was Kipling's 'If'.
Did you know that the Dutch sailed up the Thames at one point on time, causing the English to merge economically with them?
Not to defend them, but a couple outstanding Indian practices the British prohibited was burning widows on pyres and leaving female infants exposed to die.
And one of the legacies of the empire upon which the sun did not set, as the Viceroys ground their heels into the faces of our poor little brown brothers sitting in darkness: representative democracies.
Right, then.

[OkieDoke]

Anyone especially interested in this subject might check out Niall Ferguson's `Empire'. (Conservative Book Club, on sale) I was surprised to learn that one of Ghandi's favorite poems was Kipling's 'If'.
Did you know that the Dutch sailed up the Thames at one point on time, causing the English to merge economically with them?
Not to defend them, but a couple outstanding Indian practices the British prohibited was burning widows on pyres and leaving female infants exposed to die.
And one of the legacies of the empire upon which the sun did not set, as the Viceroys ground their heels into the faces of our poor little brown brothers sitting in darkness: representative democracies.
Right, then.

[xJones]

If I misunderstood your meaning I beg you pardon.

I have to forgive you, because I've done it myself more than once.:)

[Ax]

Did Kipling write this?

"Oh, the monkeys have no tails in Zamboanga, the monkeys have no tails in Zamboanga. The monkeys have no tails, they were bitten off by whales. Oh the monkeys have no tails in Zamboanga."

[AnAmericanMother]

Might interest you to know that "If" was written about George Washington.

It is one of the "bracket poems" to "Brother Square-Toes" in Rewards and Fairies, one of Kipling's two 'children's books' about English history that are really not for children at all (he said as much in a letter to IIRC Cecil Rhodes.)

Kipling often "bracketed" his short stories with two poems that would introduce and sum up the short story.

If you read "Brother Square-Toes" you will see that it is about George Washington making hard decisions on behalf of the fledgling American government . . . after a dreadful confrontation with nay-sayers in his own cabinet, he tells Cornplanter, "My brothers know it is not easy to be a Chief."

On reflection, maybe even closer to President Bush than we thought. Somebody ought to send him the story to go with the poem (I'm sure people have sent him the poem alone!)