Skip to comments.FairTax.Org HR25
Posted on 02/13/2005 10:41:05 AM PST by nsmart
The FairTax is the non-partisan national sales tax proposal that would replace all federal income taxes. These include personal, estate, gift, self-employment, alternative minimum, capital gains, FICA, and corporate and death taxes.
(Excerpt) Read more at WWW.FAIRTAX.ORG ...
The FairTax is the non-partisan national sales tax proposal that would replace all federal income taxes. These include personal, estate, gift, self-employment, alternative minimum, capital gains, FICA, and corporate and death taxes. It is estimated that Americans spend in the range of $250 billion to $500 billion every year in income tax compliance costs.
Under FairTax, used items and business-to-business purchases for the production of goods and services are not taxed. Only new goods and services for personal consumption would be taxed.
An initial reaction is that the price of goods and services will increase. However, this is quite the opposite. With the current tax system, companies have to pass their tax and compliance costs on to the consumer. Dale Jorgenson, former Harvard University economics department chairman, projected an average product price reduction of 20 percent to 30 percent in the first year after adoption of the FairTax.
Most importantly the FairTax is fair. It protects the lower-income individuals and families by providing a monthly rebate on expenditures up to the poverty level. Those spending at or below the poverty level will pay no tax. If the large corporate bigwigs want to spend their multi-million dollar salaries on expensive luxuries, then they will be taxed more; but if they choose to invest their money back into the company, the employees or the community, then they will be taxed less.
I strongly urge the readers to visit the Americans For Fair Taxation Web site at www.FairTax.org to learn more about this.
Will we ever get rid of the DEATH TAX aka the Estate tax?
I think It's time for another Boston Tea Party.
This one gets rid of all income tax.. for us and corporations.. Less than 40% pay income tax anyway.. no more favors in the tax code.. no more IRS.. no more 300 billion in compliance costs..
What a nutty claim. Taking out the same amount of tax will not have a dramatic impact on prices. I hate the over the top phoney claims the Fair Tax people have been making for years. Their analysis makes global warming scientist look honest.
No more KGB/IRS troops...
More - much - $ in our pockets, businesses with much more $, translates into more jobs, no "April 15th", ...just keeps on giving
Without an income tax, the USA will become a tax haven for the richest of the rich.. imagine the growth in the economy.
Stick around everybody. You're about to see some real discussion about this.
I certainly hope we get some real discussion.
I honestly think the US would attract investments from all over the world. After all -- taxing investments is soooo dumb. Investments are in the mattress - they are building houses, they are creating jobs, they are buying new machinery.
What is nutty?
So what is your analysis?
The Democrats like the ability to make a change in the tax code and applaud themselves .. they like the engineering in the code.
In my opinion, the Patriot Act is a pussy cat next to what I have to tell the IRS.
With the FairTax, the sham of corporate taxation ends, competition drives prices down, more people in America have jobs, and retirement/pension funds see improved performance.
If you would like to be added to this ping list let me know.
John Linder in the House(HR25) & Saxby Chambliss Senate(S25), offer a comprehensive bill to kill all income and SS/Medicare payroll taxes outright, and provide a IRS free replacement in the form of a retail sales tax:
A bill to promote freedom, fairness, and economic opportunity by repealing the income tax and other taxes, abolishing the Internal Revenue Service, and enacting a national retail sales tax to be administered primarily by the States.
Refer for additional information:
The Fair Tax Act, repeals all federal income, payroll, and gift/estate taxes.
If history is any guide this could be the longest thread you have ever posted. This issue needs vetting. I have been an advocate of the Fair Tax for years and the more we look at it the more I like it. It isn't perfect and it still allows way too much government revenue but it's the best proposal on the table.
Thoreau went to Walden Pond to protest taxes. Today a SWAT team would be sent in, his cabin burned, and he would shoot himself in the back. The papers would applaud the death of the "White Separatist".
I hate the federal boot on my individual neck. If HR25 passes, taxes again become voluntary. States collect them. If I get mad, I can purchase only used goods.
Another way to look at the rate is percent of spending absorbed by the tax. That rate is 23%... Buy an item for $77 and there's 23 tax ... 23/100 = 23%... this is how income tax is figured - I use this rate to compare to today's system...
Hope that helps
Taking out the same amount of tax will not have a dramatic impact on prices.
Removing the tax system collecting those income and payroll taxes from the backs of business removes the overhead costs associated with those businesses as well. That provides substantial potential for cost savings and reduction of prices out of competition for the consumer/investor's dollar.
I hate the over the top phoney claims the Fair Tax people have been making for years. Their analysis makes global warming scientist look honest.
Strange I could make a rather similar statement about those that deliberately obscure how the NRST actually impacts business overhead costs by reducing them not only by the amount of tax but the overhead associated with tax avoidence & planning, accounting and reporting, as well as the costs that government imposes on a business in audits, litigation & legal fees when the business person's crystal ball is as cloudy as the IRS and the IRS chooses to make an example of them, not to mention the fines, and penalties assessed when the IRS' tax court takes its final cut out of the hide of the hapless victim.
And that does not even begin to account for the loss of sales revenue from lowered demand for products due to higher pricing required as a consequence of the the above.
Price going down 30-40% the first year is purs bullcrap. You would have to save some 3 Trillion dollars for that to happen. It is pure quackery at its finest.
Imagine a phi beta kappa who graduates at the top of his class. Imagine the possibilities.. he could start a business that employs 200 people, or become a scientist who discovers a renewable energy source or a doctor who cures some dread disease...
but instead, he becomes a tax attorney.. and produces...
NOTHING.. what a sad loss of human capital!
A tax must be broad to be fair. We know Reagan gave us a broad tax and the economy flourished.. but what happened after should show us just how ill conceived a flat tax idea is. It won't stay flat and as long as we keep records and the fed taxes us individually, we are not free.
The fair tax sends everyone a pre-bate up to the cost of living taxes each month.
Who is saying that?
I would love to see a tax system like this pass. I own a small home based business and pay so much tax I can hardly stay in business. I pay cash for everything (used) because I never know what the next 6 months earnings might be so I have to keep my dept low. I'm tired of paying a higher % of tax than folks like John Kerry while he travels around in his jet I'm driving a 10 yr old car and working 10 hour days.
Actually I wish you could get your numbers straight. First they say $300 billion, which is already on the high side, then they go to this ridiculous 20% number, which is a magnitude higher than the 300 billion number. On top of that you won't even be saving that 300 billion because there will be similar compliance costs with the sales tax regardless of what the nutty professors say. The NRST/Fari Tax hype is based mostly on fraudlant analysis.
The last time I checked we already have a free market and market forces keeping our prices low. This is really getting stupid.
My $300 billion is cost of compliance.. not income tax. Its the H&R Blocks and the Corp tax attorneys.. trying NOT to pay taxes. Its the decisions we make to avoid taxes, too.
Oh.. well I guess I'll go with PhDs and LLMs in taxation over an internet message from someone who... doesn't even HAVE an analysis....
If you would like to put forth an analysis, then you could make some headway... but to simply call experts wrong because you... well, why do you think they're wrong?! Do you HAVE anything indicating an error - or just your li'l ole opinion?
I gave you my anaylsis. You suck 2.5 Trillion out of the economy, it will have the same net effect on prices no matter what your method of suxation is. Fair tax people create lower prices out of thin air. It is all phoney,
Right - always... and if the entire economy could strip out 25% of it's operating costs, prices would adjust to this new level due to the very same competition that keeps prices low - you know the system you recently checked...
But the nutty professor is saying prices will drop 20-30%.
Again, the Fair Tax organization along with economists and economic departments of universities have done analysis. Where is your analysis?
"Our system freed the individual genius of man. We allocate resources not by goverment decision but by the millions of decisions customers make when they go into the market place. If something seems too high-priced, we buy something else. So resources are steered toward those things people want most at the price they are willing to pay." Reagan
No they don't. Prices will be the SAME after the fair tax... who told you after tax prices would be lower?
What will all the accountants and tax lawyers do for livings? ;^)
There is still plenty of accounting to do and there is still tax compliance. Tax compliance is just a small aspect.
Do you know how to translate from inclusive to exclusive? Did you know there was a difference?
My point exatly. with the corporat income taxes eliminated the market will force the prices down.
Me thinks we have a contrarian in our midst.
20-30 is not 30-40. check yer posts.
Not to mention corporations coming back to America. And stripping the products of all the built in taxes will mean our products will once again be able to compete overseas.
It is still fantasy bullshit, either way. We will be lucky if prices stay the same.
That is not what he said or how the statement was presented.