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Army post turning away fewer recruits for basic training
kansascity.com ^ | 3/18/05 | JAMES GORDON MEEK

Posted on 03/18/2005 7:39:02 AM PST by anniegetyourgun

FORT BENNING, Ga. - (KRT) - After two years of war, the Army is finding it harder to fill the ranks and is cutting corners on how it turns civilians into soldiers ready for war.

Although top brass insist that high standards are maintained, the gritty drill instructors and officers at this legendary post near the Alabama border bluntly disagree with their superiors about the quality of the raw recruits and their basic training.

"I won't lie to you - the Army is not being as picky as we used to be," said one ranking officer.

(Excerpt) Read more at kansascity.com ...


TOPICS: Miscellaneous; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: army; recruiting; recruitment

1 posted on 03/18/2005 7:39:02 AM PST by anniegetyourgun
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To: anniegetyourgun

If true, I am not worried.

99.99% of being a soldier is heart. .01% is physical (that can't be overcome).

Current recruits know exactly what they are getting into and are joining for all the right reasons.


2 posted on 03/18/2005 7:43:46 AM PST by MeanWestTexan
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To: anniegetyourgun

I know that the local recruiters are more willing to look at guys with criminal charges pending than they were five years ago. We aren't back to the old days of having burglars and car thieves told to join the Army or go to the pen, but standards have been loosened.


3 posted on 03/18/2005 7:44:41 AM PST by Pilsner
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To: anniegetyourgun
Standards which are used to judge potential recruits must be carved in stone. It is heresy to ever consider changing these documents in order to address a current situation. The standards are the standards. Leave 'em alone.

Now, the Constitution, on the other hand, is a living document and ought to be re-interpreted every few years to make sure that it stays in line with current thinking and international laws.

[/sarcasm]

4 posted on 03/18/2005 7:44:49 AM PST by ClearCase_guy (The fourth estate is a fifth column.)
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To: anniegetyourgun

Reinstitute "judicial" enlistment.

3 years in jail, or 3 years in the Army. Once in the army, increase the desertion penalty to 25 years in Levenworth.

Military service has straightened out alot on non-hardened criminals.


5 posted on 03/18/2005 7:46:29 AM PST by clee1 (We use 43 muscles to frown, 17 to smile, and 2 to pull a trigger. I'm lazy and I'm tired of smiling.)
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To: anniegetyourgun

One of the reasons I joined the Corps...
The Marines are "picky" LOL

Semper Fi,
Kelly


6 posted on 03/18/2005 7:46:41 AM PST by kellynla (U.S.M.C. 1st Battalion,5th Marine Regiment, 1st Marine Div. Viet Nam 69&70 Semper Fi)
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To: ClearCase_guy
Back in '67, a pal got a choice: 4 months in the county jail for lascivious acts with a minor or pack up for Viet Nam. He took the 4 months...
7 posted on 03/18/2005 7:47:54 AM PST by Eric in the Ozarks
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To: anniegetyourgun
The pressure of war always changes standards for recruiting and training. I had great-uncle in England who joined up in 1914. He went from being a civilian to being with a unit in France in less than ten days. I had an uncle here in Texas who hitchhiked into town on December 8, 1941 and joined the Navy. He spent Christmas Day 1941 on a ship headed to Pearl Harbor. Comparatively speaking the U.S. Army is being extraordinarily picky and through in getting and training recruits.
8 posted on 03/18/2005 7:50:12 AM PST by Pilsner
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To: kellynla
"One of the reasons I joined the Corps...
The Marines are "picky" LOL

Absolutely. Marine Corps applicants are carefully screened, and those who actually put the square peg in the square hole are disqualified on the spot....#;-)

9 posted on 03/18/2005 7:55:40 AM PST by Joe 6-pack ("It takes a big man to cry, but it takes a bigger man to laugh at that man.")
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To: clee1

"Reinstitute "judicial" enlistment.

3 years in jail, or 3 years in the Army."




I never did like that idea. We don't need stupid people who do illegal things in the Army. That's not the answer at all.


10 posted on 03/18/2005 7:56:30 AM PST by MineralMan (godless atheist)
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To: Eric in the Ozarks

Back in '90, I was on a plane to Great Lakes Naval Recruit Training. One of the guys on the plane told me a story.

Him and 3 of his buddies were trying to buy weed in a BAD part of town. A supposed seller approched their car and they rolled down the window and placed an order. One of the guys in the back pulled out his wallet and the "seller" went for it. They took off, dragging the seller along. He ended up under the rear wheels of the car and they took off.

After reading about a fatal hit and run in the paper, they turned themselves in and told the judge the whole story. This was 1990, mind you and the judge told them, "Military or jail". Two of them joined the Navy and two joined the Army.

I never saw the guy again after bootcamp, but he was a good sailor in bootcamp. Hopefully it did him some good.


11 posted on 03/18/2005 8:01:34 AM PST by L98Fiero
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To: anniegetyourgun

Theyneed to relax the standards... They say I'm too old..

Hell, if I am, keep me stateside and let the clerks sitting on computers go shoot!

LOL

They need to consider this option.


12 posted on 03/18/2005 8:05:43 AM PST by 1stFreedom (1)
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To: All

Current enlistment standards are out of whack. Audie Murphy and Alvin York would both be sent home if they walked into a recruiting station today.

The standards of enlistment were racheted up after Desert Storm, because the Army was downsizing. Now we are in a situation where we need recruits and the standards are higher than they have ever been in history.

There is something to be said for the "bootstrap" army. The army has a responsibility to help raise the general population by their bootstraps and give them opportunities they never would have seen otherwise. Current recruiting standards are as high as four year colleges.

I'm not advocating opening the prisons, but "go to war or go to jail" saved a lot of people from a lifetime in jail.


13 posted on 03/18/2005 8:07:34 AM PST by BADDBOB
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To: Pilsner

My dad was born in 1906 and was a little too old to step forward after Pearl Harbor. They took him anyway in the China-Burma-India theater and he flew C-46s over the Hump as a civilian pilot.


14 posted on 03/18/2005 8:09:19 AM PST by Eric in the Ozarks
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To: anniegetyourgun

Wow, I'd hate to hear the media's take on the quality of volunteer recruits in the Civil War, WWI or WWII.


15 posted on 03/18/2005 8:11:11 AM PST by wideawake (God bless our brave soldiers and their Commander in Chief)
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To: Joe 6-pack

A ren't
R eally
M arines
Y et

I don't remember the peg/hole test but my neighbor who was an Army Sniper in Nam didn't seem to mind us Marines choppering him out of a hotzone when you guys failed to come get him!

And to this day, I don't have to buy a drink as long as he is in the bar. ;-]

Semper Fi
Do or Die!

Kelly


16 posted on 03/18/2005 8:13:07 AM PST by kellynla (U.S.M.C. 1st Battalion,5th Marine Regiment, 1st Marine Div. Viet Nam 69&70 Semper Fi)
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To: anniegetyourgun

well they took me 7 years ago....they must not have had any standards then!!! :-P


17 posted on 03/18/2005 8:21:23 AM PST by MikefromOhio (Silly Hippies, Bush Won!!!!)
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To: BADDBOB
The army has a responsibility to help raise the general population by their bootstraps and give them opportunities they never would have seen otherwise.

Totally unmitigated bullsqueese!

The military is NOT a social worker's program.

18 posted on 03/18/2005 8:21:36 AM PST by clee1 (We use 43 muscles to frown, 17 to smile, and 2 to pull a trigger. I'm lazy and I'm tired of smiling.)
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To: kellynla
"And to this day, (he has me convinced that)I don't have to buy a drink as long as he is in the bar. ;-]

Old Army mind game. Glad to see it still works on you devil dogs...:-)

19 posted on 03/18/2005 8:28:37 AM PST by Joe 6-pack ("It takes a big man to cry, but it takes a bigger man to laugh at that man.")
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To: Pilsner

"We aren't back to the old days of having burglars and car thieves told to join the Army or go to the pen,"

Ah, The good ol' days....


20 posted on 03/18/2005 8:29:53 AM PST by dakine
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To: kellynla

The Marines ARE picky. They turned my son away because he has a titanium plate in his jaw (he was hit by a car 5 years ago). The Army will take him, though.


21 posted on 03/18/2005 8:30:40 AM PST by Trust but Verify (Pull up a chair and watch history being made.)
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To: Joe 6-pack

You can dance around the issue all you like but that Army Sniper is alive today thanks to the United States Marine Corps. PERIOD!

and he's been buying Marines drinks for over thirty years...

enjoy the rest of your day


22 posted on 03/18/2005 8:33:04 AM PST by kellynla (U.S.M.C. 1st Battalion,5th Marine Regiment, 1st Marine Div. Viet Nam 69&70 Semper Fi)
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To: kellynla; jb6
I don't remember the peg/hole test but my neighbor who was an Army Sniper in Nam didn't seem to mind us Marines choppering him out of a hotzone when you guys failed to come get him!

How soon the Jarheads forget how they were rescued by the First Air Cav in Nam.
23 posted on 03/18/2005 8:40:59 AM PST by GarySpFc (Sneakypete, De Oppresso Liber)
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To: clee1

I kind of like the "Dirty Dozen" approach.


24 posted on 03/18/2005 8:46:41 AM PST by dfwgator (It's sad that the news media treats Michael Jackson better than our military.)
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To: MikeinIraq

I doubt that. ; )


25 posted on 03/18/2005 8:48:24 AM PST by anniegetyourgun
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To: kellynla
You know, I've had close relatives in all branches of the service...I'm proud of them all for their service, and their ability to laugh at themselves.

I'm truly sorry that you lack the latter...It's truly a gift and a blessing. Have a nice day...;-)

26 posted on 03/18/2005 8:49:52 AM PST by Joe 6-pack ("It takes a big man to cry, but it takes a bigger man to laugh at that man.")
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To: ClearCase_guy

Well said.


27 posted on 03/18/2005 8:52:05 AM PST by BJClinton (“Give me your DUmmies, your Idiots, your Leftist Wackos yearning to be sanity free.” ~PJ-Comix)
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To: GarySpFc

The only thing I said I didn't remember was the peg/hole test. Now if you want to have a history lesson I'll have to take the rest of the day off. And I don't think you can afford me!


28 posted on 03/18/2005 8:52:54 AM PST by kellynla (U.S.M.C. 1st Battalion,5th Marine Regiment, 1st Marine Div. Viet Nam 69&70 Semper Fi)
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To: Joe 6-pack

Well the next time you want to make jokes of the Marine Corps and imply that we're stupid, I suggest you refrain...instead of apologizing for your classless "peg/hole" remark you take another cut at me!
Well guess what, you couldn't carry my boots!
class dismissed!

and thanks I will have a nice day!


29 posted on 03/18/2005 9:00:32 AM PST by kellynla (U.S.M.C. 1st Battalion,5th Marine Regiment, 1st Marine Div. Viet Nam 69&70 Semper Fi)
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To: kellynla
LOL...it was your implication that the USMC is "better" than the Army in your post #6 (One of the reasons I joined the Corps...The Marines are "picky")that started this ball rolling.

It becomes increasingly evident with each of your replies that you have a harder time taking than you do dishing out.

30 posted on 03/18/2005 9:10:39 AM PST by Joe 6-pack ("It takes a big man to cry, but it takes a bigger man to laugh at that man.")
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To: clee1

This will not work. Someone who is forced into the military instead of going to prison is the last person I would want in my unit. The foundation of the military is discipline and teamwork, traits that would be absent in any person that went into the military instead of jail. They could not be trusted and would be a constant source of trouble. He, or she, would be more trouble then they were worth.


31 posted on 03/18/2005 10:10:02 AM PST by ops33 (Retired USAF Senior Master Sergeant)
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To: ops33

Sorry, 17/18 year olds change....


32 posted on 03/18/2005 10:12:51 AM PST by dakine
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To: GarySpFc
M uscles
A re
R equired
I ntelligence
N ot
E xpected

Hey, I see the Gyrene is offering you a history lesson. Make sure he includes the parts about all the glorious Marine victories in the Civil War and WWII Europe. The Army's battle history doesn't have to take a back seat to any other service's, but you can't get the ooh-rah chorus to admit it.

33 posted on 03/18/2005 10:22:33 AM PST by 91B (God made man, Sam Colt made men equal.)
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To: clee1

No it isn't a social worker's program, but it was a second chance for a lot of people.

A social worker's progam is a hand-out, and military service is a hand-up.

I'm in the Army, (18 years so far) and our job is to provide for the defense of the nation. Denying service to someone who is salvegable is bad for the country, especially in this time of need.

Raising the bar for the lowest common denominator brings the whole country up and makes us stronger. And military service doesn't give anything to anyone, it makes you earn it.


34 posted on 03/18/2005 11:07:59 AM PST by BADDBOB
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To: kellynla
The only thing I said I didn't remember was the peg/hole test. Now if you want to have a history lesson I'll have to take the rest of the day off. And I don't think you can afford me!

Let's see, you were in Nam 69-70, and so the First Cav. rescue of the marines at Khe Sanh would have been forgotten by your kind. And yes, you couldn't carry MY boots.
35 posted on 03/18/2005 12:03:55 PM PST by GarySpFc (Sneakypete, De Oppresso Liber)
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To: GarySpFc

"My kind"
and just what is "my kind?"

BTW, I remember Khe Sanh very well, thank you.

I was in Nam. Were you?

Carry your boots?
No thank you, I carried enough Marine "boots" onto choppers to last me a lifetime!

BTW, Marines is spelled with a capital "M"


36 posted on 03/18/2005 12:24:58 PM PST by kellynla (U.S.M.C. 1st Battalion,5th Marine Regiment, 1st Marine Div. Viet Nam 69&70 Semper Fi)
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To: anniegetyourgun
Just to add to the general debate: While stationed in Germany I had a mortar platoon section sergeant, early 1980's, who came in because the choice was 20 years in jail for manslaughter or a military enlistment. He'd caught his wife and best friend in bed, and in a moment of passion, shot them. The 'best friend' died, the wife was only wounded, and he ended up serving 20 years in the Army.

Of course, he came in the latter days of the Vietnam era, and I also had some senior NCOs that couldn't read, and one who couldn't write either.

Still in all, the Soviets never came across the Fulda Gap. Maybe their NCOs couldn't read either, or had also shot their wives.

We will sink to whatever level we have to -- whatever the market will bear is also limited to whatever the consumer (goverment, taxpayers) are willing to invest in our Army of One.

Just remember that the President is the Commander in Chief, and the Congress is charged with the funding of the raising of an Army. Don't blame the Army entirely for what what it fields...

37 posted on 03/18/2005 12:40:41 PM PST by ReaganCowboy (History books are written by winners.)
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To: GarySpFc
I don't remember the peg/hole test but my neighbor who was an Army Sniper in Nam didn't seem to mind us Marines choppering him out of a hotzone when you guys failed to come get him!

How soon the Jarheads forget how they were rescued by the First Air Cav in Nam.

Oh, geez,another pi**sing contest. When you guys start throwing your johnsons out on table, I'm outta here.

No, it's not mine, it's my father's. Pacific, Korea & Nam. And he came home from each one, thank God.

R.I.P to all of our boys that didn't come back.

38 posted on 03/18/2005 12:46:06 PM PST by ChildOfThe60s (If you can remember the 60's.....you weren't really there.)
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To: kellynla
BTW, I remember Khe Sanh very well, thank you.
I was in Nam. Were you?


If you would have remember how the marines were rescued at Khe Sanh, then you wouldn't have started your pissing contest. Yes, I was there and served on an SF A-Team for six years.
39 posted on 03/18/2005 1:13:30 PM PST by GarySpFc (Sneakypete, De Oppresso Liber)
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To: ReaganCowboy

Interesting stories, RC. Thanks for sharing.....


40 posted on 03/18/2005 1:22:05 PM PST by anniegetyourgun
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To: 91B

ya know if you're going to talk about someone,
at least have the courtesy of addressing them...
you've certainly been around here long enough to learn some manners...

and what war were you in?


41 posted on 03/18/2005 4:33:45 PM PST by kellynla (U.S.M.C. 1st Battalion,5th Marine Regiment, 1st Marine Div. Viet Nam 69&70 Semper Fi)
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To: kellynla
I guess you gave up giving history lessons to give lessons in manners and netiquette. Good, because you apparently have a distorted idea of Army history (also review the Battle of Pelelieu for reference).

I'm in this one big guy-2nd squadron, 278th RCT, FOB Bernstein, Tuz-Khurmatu.

42 posted on 03/19/2005 4:22:59 AM PST by 91B (God made man, Sam Colt made men equal.)
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To: 91B

"I guess you gave up giving history lessons?"
maybe you dogfaces should take a course in remedial reading.
If you go back and actually read my original post you will see that I said that one of the reasons I joined the Marine Corps was because it was "picky" now if you clowns have a problem with that then that's just too damn bad because it's factual!

One of your fellow soldiers then chimed in with the "peg/hole" line inferring that Marines were stupid.

I then posted that I didn't remember any "peg/hole" tests but I did remember the Army Sniper who for over thirty years never forgot what the Marine Corps did for him.

Then another one of your fellow Army clowns chimed in with his two cents about Keh Sanh...of course I remember Khe Sanh because I was actually in Nam in combat unlike most!

You guys ought to start your own club and maybe between the bunch of you, you can carry on an intelligent conversation.
gezzzzzzzzzz

Class dismissed.


43 posted on 03/19/2005 6:33:34 AM PST by kellynla (U.S.M.C. 1st Battalion,5th Marine Regiment, 1st Marine Div. Viet Nam 69&70 Semper Fi)
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To: MeanWestTexan

I was injured on active duty (15 years,11B3P)and it left me paralyzed (my fault, motorcycle accident) from the chest down... I'd be willing to serve in an admin position if they would have me again.


44 posted on 03/19/2005 6:38:25 AM PST by corlorde (Without the home of the brave, there would be no land of the free)
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To: kellynla
Oh-I've never met a Marine who didn't have a perfectly over-inflated opinion of his beloved corps not consistent with the historical record. That's why I bristled at the history lessons you were offering to dispense. But, like all jarheads, you don't want to talk about WWII Europe or the Civil War-the two biggest conflicts in our nations' history and both fought almost entirely without the participation of the Marines and I doubt if they taught you about how the Army had to take on the mission at Pelelieu after the great Chesty himself failed to take "bloody nose ridge".

Still, I suppose that we could have an intelligent conversation among ourselves. After all, you wouldn't be involved.

45 posted on 03/19/2005 8:32:29 AM PST by 91B (God made man, Sam Colt made men equal.)
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To: corlorde

They should let you so serve.


46 posted on 03/21/2005 7:07:30 AM PST by MeanWestTexan
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