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Terri's husband isn't the enemy, guardian says
Orlando Sentinel ^ | February 25, 2005 | Mike Thomas

Posted on 03/19/2005 9:18:52 AM PST by EveningStar

Wolfson's report is based on court files, depositions, medical records and interviews with everyone involved.

That said, I begin with the most explosive allegation:

Did Michael try to kill Terri?

Wolfson laughs. "No!"

-----

Wolfson's report states that in the four years after her collapse, Michael "had insistently held to the premise that Theresa could recover and the evidence is incontrovertible that he gave his heart and soul to her treatment and care . . . In late autumn of 1990, following months of therapy and testing and formal diagnoses of persistent vegetative state with no evidence of improvement, Michael took Theresa to California, where she received an experimental thalamic stimulator implant in her brain. Michael remained in California caring for Theresa during a period of several months."

Says Wolfson now: "Michael was adoring of her. One nursing home complained he was hostile and abusive of the staff in championing her care. She was immaculately kept. In 13 years, she never had one bedsore."

(Excerpt) Read more at orlandosentinel.com ...


TOPICS: Culture/Society; Extended News; Government; News/Current Events; US: Florida
KEYWORDS: jaywolfson; psychoticmalenurse; schiavo; terri; terrischiavo; wifekiller
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To: Howlin

"that the defendants would have trotted it out for all the world to see."

I know I've said it more than once.

Ever seen a mob mentality?


781 posted on 03/20/2005 3:21:26 AM PST by Smartaleck
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To: Peach; Howlin; cajun scpo

"Thank you for posting it here so we could all read it."

"99% of the arguments posted here would not make it out of 9th grade civics class,"

That about sums it up.

There are many other classes some would fail so I thought it would be easier to indicate the one they would ace....that be a class in disinformation?


782 posted on 03/20/2005 3:33:55 AM PST by Smartaleck
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To: Drango

"Here are the main points again, but it won't make any difference..."

So sad, so true.

Now that the US Congress /Feds have stepped in and made and even greater national spectacle of it.... and so much of the dis-information having been spread on the web.... watch for even more calls to crack down on people posting on the web.

Get the bloggers!


783 posted on 03/20/2005 3:42:23 AM PST by Smartaleck
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To: the Deejay

"Lawdy, this is getting more ridiculous by the moment.
ROTFLM*O!!!"

Shoot....I laugh at just about every other post! LOL


784 posted on 03/20/2005 3:48:11 AM PST by Smartaleck
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To: UCANSEE2

"Thank you. It states NO EVIDENCE OF A HEART ATTACK."

What does it mean on the last page -
Principal diagnosis : cardiac arrest
What are these about?
The "Bun" levels,
"sinus tachycardian"
ST-t, and LDH


785 posted on 03/20/2005 4:53:52 AM PST by Smartaleck
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To: af_vet_1981

"Felos and Greer are also her enemies, and they should be held to account, impeached and removed from their positions, and shamed for the rest of their lives for the murder they tried to commit."

It doesn't appear you've spent much time reading the actual court proceedings?


786 posted on 03/20/2005 5:00:33 AM PST by Smartaleck
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To: Peach

"So far I don't see any lies in my post. But carry on."

Amen


787 posted on 03/20/2005 5:04:23 AM PST by Smartaleck
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To: Smartaleck

It's nearly impossible to reason with some people.

They say we're eager to see her killed. Maybe because those are her wishes?

I've talked with lots of people about this over the last month or so, and asked them if they'd want to live this way. Every single one of them has said no.

I've asked them if they've ever met a person who would wish to live this way. Every single one of them has said no.

They think he tries to strangle her and then she had a heart attack. But no one in that hospital saw stangulation marks on her. Aaargh. (sorry for the rant)


788 posted on 03/20/2005 5:08:33 AM PST by Peach (The Clintons pardoned more terrorists than they ever captured or killed.)
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To: Peach
Freepers have said that Terri has not been seen by a neurologist. That's patently untrue.

Yes, she was seen by a neurologist, and an experimental treatment involving the implantation of electrodes in her skull was undertaken. But the electrodes were never removed, despite the intervening years since the treatment and the doctor's strong advice to do so. Michael has clearly not kept to a standard of quality care.

Some freepers have said that only Michael was told about Terri's comments that she never wanted to be kept alive with machines and tubes. Yet court testimony indicates her best friend, Joan, also heard Terri say that.

Please post a link to the relevant testimony - probably several will be necessary in order to illustrate the many points you have posted. I have read a lot of material regarding this case and this is the first I have seen this assertion. The root for Michael's knowledge of her wishes is supposedly a remark made after viewing a news program about a person on life support - Terri said she "wouldn't want to live like that". I don't understand how that translates to "I'd rather starve", though.

It's been stated she did not have a CAT scan. That's patently untrue.

CAT scans are not terribly useful for diagnosing PVS. MRIs and PET Scans are considered the standard. The doctor who diagnosed Terri's PVS is well known for his ability to create that diagnosis on the drop of a hat, from what I have read. He is a PVS right-to-die advocate.

It's been stated that Michael refused to let a priest visit her. That's patently untrue. Some of them have given interviews after their visit with Terri and just yesterday she was given last rites.

Michael has refused repeatedly to allow her to receive communion. When the feeding tube was removed previously, I believe he DID refuse to allow access to her by her family's priest.

Terri's sister stated on CNN last night that they don't even know if Terri had a heart attack. Court documentation by numerous doctors provides evidence that Terri did have a heart attack. Her sister denied that Terri had bulimia but that is the very basis under which Michael won a malpractice suit.

Michael has denied that he assaulted her on the night she had the "heart attack", and yet there id medical evidence that she was strangled, and did no6t "fall down the stairs" as her erstwhile husband has alleged. The malpractice money was supposed to have been invested in her care - but a good portion of it now belongs to Felos, Michael's right-to-kill attorney.

Look, I do not have a dog in this fight beyond my own predisposition toward life when there is doubt. I personally see a lot of doubt in this case. You, evidently, do not.

You have asserted a number of patents that do point out the factual errors some Freepers have made, and yet you do not take time to connect the errors to the truths they spring from or are parallel with. Because FR is a discussion forum, such errors will happen, and they do need to be corrected.

I know I have addressed only you this post to you, but I hope that anyone who is interested in discussing the Schiavo case will remember that (1) accuracy is important and (2) we do not need to be uncivil with each other. Passion on a subject can be expressed without resorting to the vitriol spewed by the liberati. I have no intention to offend with anything I have said here, so please tell me if something I typed strikes you as a personal attack.

If I have made factual errors in my post, please point out the problems so I can address them.

I'll get off my soapbox now. [/pet peeve preachiness] ;-P

789 posted on 03/20/2005 5:25:43 AM PST by MortMan (Man who run behind car get exhausted.)
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To: UCANSEE2

You wanted the names of Terri's parents two doctors who examined her:

In 2002, they ran every other test - EEGs, CT scans, labs, etc., and 5 docs examined them and her to confirm what all her previous docs and therapists said - that she was both in PVS and that no current therapy could help her.

2 docs appointed by her husband, 2 by her parents, a court-appointed, and her regular doc testified.

Only the 2 doctors of her parents said she isn't PVS:

1) Dr Hammesfahr
- an alternative medicine neurologist
- He's the one who made the 4 hour video exam we see 4 minute snippets of
- who said she wasn't pvs even *before* seeing her that one, and only, time
- who has made the most outrageous, clintonesque-worded statements imaginable to get everyone in a tizzy (like the heart attack thing)
- who's been asked by the congressman who wrote the Nobel letter to stop using it to claim he is a "Nobel Prize Nominee"
- whose testimony under oath was night and day from the outlandish claims he spouts in interviews and his "report"

2) Maxwell (an elderly radiologist): Their other doctor - On the stand, he couldn't tell the difference between coma and PVS, or give the descriptions of them - he just said she wasn't.

He was there only to say he thought hyperbaric treatment (never used in a case like this before) could help, and that he thought there was improvement in her brain density on the scans. But it was clear there wasn't - just newer, clearer resolution and less grainy because the old image was "blown up" in size.

Those were the best 2 doctors they could find. The neurologist they had at first, backed out of saying under oath what he said to them without seeing her. So, Greer and the 2DCA on appeal (having reviewed all the evidence - video, med records, etc, themselves!) said she was PVS and there was no hope.


790 posted on 03/20/2005 5:28:09 AM PST by Peach (The Clintons pardoned more terrorists than they ever captured or killed.)
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To: MortMan

Terri was not just seen by one neurologist. She has been seen by several neurologists and doctors. There are only two doctors who have ever examined her who said she isn't PVS.

The information is here (courtesy of another freeper who wishes to remain nameless):

In 2002, they ran every other test - EEGs, CT scans, labs, etc., and 5 docs examined them and her to confirm what all her previous docs and therapists said - that she was both in PVS and that no current therapy could help her.

2 docs appointed by her husband, 2 by her parents, a court-appointed, and her regular doc testified.

Only the 2 doctors of her parents said she isn't PVS:

Dr Hammesfahr
- an alternative medicine neurologist
- He's the one who made the 4 hour video exam we see 4 minute snippets of
- who said she wasn't pvs even *before* seeing her that one, and only, time
- who has made the most outrageous, clintonesque-worded statements imaginable to get everyone in a tizzy (like the heart attack thing)
- who's been asked by the congressman who wrote the Nobel letter to stop using it to claim he is a "Nobel Prize Nominee"
- whose testimony under oath was night and day from the outlandish claims he spouts in interviews and his "report"

- Maxwell (an elderly radiologist): Their other doctor - On the stand, he couldn't tell the difference between coma and PVS, or give the descriptions of them - he just said she wasn't.

He was there only to say he thought hyperbaric treatment (never used in a case like this before) could help, and that he thought there was improvement in her brain density on the scans. But it was clear there wasn't - just newer, clearer resolution and less grainy because the old image was "blown up" in size.

Those were the best 2 doctors they could find. The neurologist they had at first, backed out of saying under oath what he said to them without seeing her. So, Greer and the 2DCA on appeal (having reviewed all the evidence - video, med records, etc, themselves!) said she was PVS and there was no hope.

I have never seen medical evidence that Michael strangled her. In fact, quite the opposite.

Do you honestly believe that a hospital and doctors were sued by Michael as causing PVS and instead of putting up a defense, like, he strangled her, they just gave up and gave him money?


791 posted on 03/20/2005 5:32:50 AM PST by Peach (The Clintons pardoned more terrorists than they ever captured or killed.)
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To: EveningStar

Excellent post. I side on this guy's case... give her a MRI, give her a swallowing test, etc. and stand by their results. It shouldn't take more than a day or two. There's way too much weirdness going on with both sides.


792 posted on 03/20/2005 5:36:18 AM PST by Nataku X (Food for Thought: http://web2.airmail.net/scsr/)
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To: Peach

Regarding PVS, it is my understanding that a 4 minute bout of non-PVS activity is enough to completely invalidate the PVS diagnosis. Is this not true?

In terms of the evidence of physical abuse from the night of her heart attack, there was an effort some years ago to use the X-Rays from her hospital admission in an investigation, but the authorities in FLA said the evidence was "too old". I have read a number of places that a number of the injuries she had when she arrived to the hospital were inconsistent with a fall down a stairs. They were described as being more consistent with a physical assault, including strangulation.

In terms of the malpractice - remember that the former democrat VP nominee won a big-money malpractice suit by channeling the spirit of a brain damaged baby girl. Exchange of money in a malpractice suit does not equal being right - and many times it is "cheaper" for the insurance company to settle for a large amount of money rather than risk an outrageous award from a trial.

Thank you, Peach, for answering my questions and assertions with factual argument, without insults, and with courtesy. It's nice to see that on this forum - although it is sometimes harder to find. We (apparently) disagree on this subject, but I commend your ability to discuss it without rancor.

I hope I have managed to do the same.


793 posted on 03/20/2005 5:48:31 AM PST by MortMan (Man who run behind car get exhausted.)
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To: MortMan

You have, and I thank you as well.

I know that sometimes doctors just settle a lawsuit to avoid a prolonged, expensive trial.

But one would think that if there was any evidence that Terri had been strangled, someone would have mentioned it when she was first admitted to the hospital.

Neither the paramedics, doctors, nurses or numerous family members who visited her immediately after her admission to the hospital ever mentioned the possibility that she had been strangled.

And it would have been strange for Michael, if he was guilty, to consider opening himself up for further investigation by pushing the lawsuit. It would have been very risky for him to have done so.

As far as PVS and the four minutes are concerned, I don't know but would imagine that if Terri had shown 4 minutes of non-PVS brain activity, it would be mentioned somewhere in court testimony or the Guardian ad litem report and it isn't anywhere that I've seen.

As an aside, the Guardian ad litem report quotes Terri's family as telling Michael it was time to get on with his life.

What I don't like to see on this forum, and I'm certainly not charging you because you have been courteous, is for some freepers to charge that we who are trying to present the facts as we know them as being "eager to see Terri die."

Nothing could be farther from the truth.


794 posted on 03/20/2005 5:56:48 AM PST by Peach (The Clintons pardoned more terrorists than they ever captured or killed.)
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To: Peach

"They think"

No they don't and that's the problem. LOL

As I mentioned to Howlin, it seems those who have been in the same position as Terri's folks/hubby or some other love one, tend to have more grace and sense of mercy about the whole matter?

I've been talking to someone who's in acute care. They control a machine that literally means life or death to the person receiving treatment.....and is by the way is Catholic. This is a person who has to face people like Terri's people all the time and explain why someone is dead and how they got that way.
Her opinion, based on 25 years experience, let her go.

Just a hunch, most doctors and nurses, people who ought to know, probably don't want to be "hooked up" and would prefer to be "let go."


795 posted on 03/20/2005 6:12:04 AM PST by Smartaleck
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To: MortMan

Mort......... a lot of the court documents and testimony are here.

If you have the time to read through it, you'll find there is a lot of dis-information being bandied about by those who haven't taken the time to read the legal proceedings and it's not coming from her husbands side of the issue.

http://abstractappeal.com/schiavo/infopage.html#timeline


796 posted on 03/20/2005 6:16:22 AM PST by Smartaleck
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To: Petronski
"I stopped him and told him that these [MRI] tests have never been done for her; that Michael had refused them."

I don't doubt that Michael Schiavo may have refused them. Terri Schiavo still has the thalmic stimulator implanted in what's left of her brain. An MRI is not a procedure that would be recommended as a result.

797 posted on 03/20/2005 6:17:01 AM PST by daylate-dollarshort (s/v Musashi I)
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To: The Ghost of FReepers Past
"It is heresay. It should not stand up in court."

Oh? And your law degree was awarded by whom?

The testimony given in court was not hearsay according to the hearsay rules and further, the testimony not only stood up in court but was affirmed by the appellate court.

798 posted on 03/20/2005 6:23:11 AM PST by daylate-dollarshort (s/v Musashi I)
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To: MortMan
"I have read a number of places"

and a lot of it is a distortion and half truths.

For example, the "bone" discussion/accusations. There were actually about 8 people who testified on that matter. People are posting a snippit of the opinion of one doctor and one "photo". There were other scans/photos using other technology and testimony of other specialty doctors with other opinions.

Further, I suspect you only saw quotes taken from the parents atty.? For a more complete picture you need to read the cross exam of the doctor by hubby's atty.

A transcript of the people who spoke to this issue is here....about 68 pages.
http://www.hospicepatients.org/dr-walker-t-schiavo-bone-scan-deposition.txt

BTW.........your civility and efforts to find truth are much appreciated. IMO, you can rely on Peach with a good deal of confidence.....she's done her homework. :-)
799 posted on 03/20/2005 6:32:33 AM PST by Smartaleck
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To: Peach; MortMan
"As far as PVS and the four minutes are concerned, I don't know but would imagine that if Terri had shown 4 minutes of non-PVS brain activity, it would be mentioned somewhere in court testimony or the Guardian ad litem report and it isn't anywhere that I've seen."

A discussion of this topic and what the doctors, five, not one observed is here.
http://abstractappeal.com/schiavo/trialctorder11-02.txt

There are differing opinions, perhaps even bias, but it is unmistakable that her parents or those who support her are putting out info that does not comport with the facts and learned opinions of experts taken under oath. IMO. Of note, (the Schindler's doctors I believe) the court writes... "Neither Dr. Hammesfahr nor Dr. Maxfield was able to credibly testify that the treatment options that they offered would significantly improve Terry Schiavo's quality of life."
800 posted on 03/20/2005 6:47:33 AM PST by Smartaleck
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