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Terri's husband isn't the enemy, guardian says
Orlando Sentinel ^ | February 25, 2005 | Mike Thomas

Posted on 03/19/2005 9:18:52 AM PST by EveningStar

Wolfson's report is based on court files, depositions, medical records and interviews with everyone involved.

That said, I begin with the most explosive allegation:

Did Michael try to kill Terri?

Wolfson laughs. "No!"

-----

Wolfson's report states that in the four years after her collapse, Michael "had insistently held to the premise that Theresa could recover and the evidence is incontrovertible that he gave his heart and soul to her treatment and care . . . In late autumn of 1990, following months of therapy and testing and formal diagnoses of persistent vegetative state with no evidence of improvement, Michael took Theresa to California, where she received an experimental thalamic stimulator implant in her brain. Michael remained in California caring for Theresa during a period of several months."

Says Wolfson now: "Michael was adoring of her. One nursing home complained he was hostile and abusive of the staff in championing her care. She was immaculately kept. In 13 years, she never had one bedsore."

(Excerpt) Read more at orlandosentinel.com ...


TOPICS: Culture/Society; Extended News; Government; News/Current Events; US: Florida
KEYWORDS: jaywolfson; psychoticmalenurse; schiavo; terri; terrischiavo; wifekiller
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To: Smartaleck

Thanks for inserting that. The Schindler's doctors simply were not credible, but they've prolonged the controversy and for that, they should be ashamed.


801 posted on 03/20/2005 6:50:13 AM PST by Peach (The Clintons pardoned more terrorists than they ever captured or killed.)
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To: Smartaleck; Peach

I appreciate the links to the testimony. While I do not believe I can be disuaded from my current opinion, I will certainly avail myself of the opportunity to do more homework.

BTW - The thalmic (sp?) probes were supposed to have been removed, but are now a 'reason' for not doing an MRI. It's a problem for me when people (attorneys and parties to the suit) disregard expert advice and subsequently find the consequences useful for disregarding other expert advice. I try to be a logical thinker, and cannot find any logic in the "probe sequence", personally.


802 posted on 03/20/2005 6:57:50 AM PST by MortMan (Man who run behind car get exhausted.)
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To: MortMan

"BTW - The thalmic (sp?) probes were supposed to have been removed, but are now a 'reason' for not doing an MRI."

Do you by chance a link to where this is coming from? Something new, old? Sounds interesting.

Thanks


803 posted on 03/20/2005 7:04:52 AM PST by Smartaleck
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To: Hildy
I bet you $1,000 right here and now that the Schindler's will be the first to cash in on this tragedy.

Felos already has, get your checkbook out.

804 posted on 03/20/2005 7:06:44 AM PST by palmer ("Oh you heartless gloaters")
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To: MortMan

Hi, MOrtMan.

I'm trying to find out whether experts recommended the probes be removed as well; I don't know for fact that it was recommended.

Just as a side note, I'm not trying to persuade anybody. I couldn't do that because I don't even have a strong feeling about what is right or wrong to do in this case.

What I don't like to see are continuous mis-representations by various freepers and have tried, along with a host of other freepers, to make sure that we aren't like DU in spreading lies.


805 posted on 03/20/2005 7:07:16 AM PST by Peach (The Clintons pardoned more terrorists than they ever captured or killed.)
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To: Peach
What I don't like to see are continuous mis-representations by various freepers and have tried, along with a host of other freepers, to make sure that we aren't like DU in spreading lies.

I couldn't agree more. Obviously, I need to do better than my usual 2 or 3 independent source rule for this particular case.

806 posted on 03/20/2005 7:16:55 AM PST by MortMan (Man who run behind car get exhausted.)
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To: Smartaleck

Not like I've seen it in the last 48 hours.


807 posted on 03/20/2005 7:18:17 AM PST by Howlin
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To: EveningStar
I don't care how adoring, how loving, how caring of Terry her husband may have been in the past. It's all water under the bridge.

Today Terry is being made to suffer and ultimately die a brutal and tortorous death for no reason other than her husband's words that cannot be substantiated with her writing.

Heck, that brutal murderous dictator Saddam has been given rights beyond anything that Terry Schiavo has been afforded. His prison cell conditions I imagine are far better than hers and he still gets his regular meals.

The Red Cross was so concerned that he and his terrorist scum prison buddies were being treated unfairly and inhumanely. Well, where is the Red Cross now? I don't see them entering Terry's death chamber.

Why does Terry have to die by the flick of the pen of one man? At least Terry should be given a trial by a jury of her peers. Let the handicapped and disabled be her peers. Let the loving and caring parents and husbands and wives of the handicapped and disabled be her peers.

Let Terry have the same rights any murderer, serial killer, rapist are afforded.

Let Terry be Liberated and FREE TO LIVE!!

808 posted on 03/20/2005 7:53:43 AM PST by harpo11 (Congress We Need More Steroid in the War on Terror--Let's Roll With a Grand Slam!)
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To: Howlin
I think Congress is making a mistake here, but they're going to do it.

What will be interesting is to see whether this law is challenged as being an unconstitutional intrusion into a state's sovereignty, or whether it's just accepted. From a practical standpoint, I don't have an objection to another look at Terri's condition. I do have a legal and constitutional problem with this solution being offered.

809 posted on 03/20/2005 8:03:57 AM PST by Dog Gone
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To: Dog Gone

To my mind, the only thing that's germaine here is what Terri's Schiavo's wishes were. Considering the room for doubt, somebody's lying, I don't have a problem with the Federal court system getting involved. The prospect of different states having differernt standards gives me the willies. Surely a life ought to have the same worth in all fifty states, and if it takes Federal involvement to ensure that, so be it.


810 posted on 03/20/2005 8:08:03 AM PST by mewzilla (Has CBS retracted the story yet?)
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To: Dog Gone
From a practical standpoint, I don't have an objection to another look at Terri's condition.

Exactly. I don't know why it hasn't been done before, but evidently other judges agreed with Greer; but now that we are here, maybe that should happen.

I do have a legal and constitutional problem with this solution being offered

And you are smart to; this open the door to a friend or an aunt or an uncle taking a spouse to court because they don't agree with a decision a couple makes.

811 posted on 03/20/2005 8:08:22 AM PST by Howlin
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To: Howlin
this open the door to a friend or an aunt or an uncle taking a spouse to court because they don't agree with a decision a couple makes.

It simply opens the door to federal control for due process, before someone's life can be terminated there must a finding of fact that they are dying or have no chance of recovery and that their wish was to have life support terminated. Both conditions are controversial in this case and the legal proceedings to make those determinations have been woefully inadequate.

812 posted on 03/20/2005 8:25:49 AM PST by palmer ("Oh you heartless gloaters")
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To: palmer

It opens the door to EVERY SINGLE person on a feeding tube in this country this very minute to go through this same process; the Congress will now decide who lives and dies.

Whether or not we agree with the decision her husband made, she's had more "due process" than any living party to an ongoing case.


813 posted on 03/20/2005 8:27:58 AM PST by Howlin
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To: mewzilla
The prospect of different states having differernt standards gives me the willies. Surely a life ought to have the same worth in all fifty states, and if it takes Federal involvement to ensure that, so be it.

Do you object to the fact that some states have the death penalty and others don't?

814 posted on 03/20/2005 8:33:21 AM PST by Dog Gone
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To: Peach
"I'm trying to find out whether experts recommended the probes be removed as well; I don't know for fact that it was recommended."
(I'm with you on the non-persuasion one way or the other.)

I've look for a bit of info on "brain death" and PVS and found some links below.

My sense is the CT-scan that was performed is used often times as a tool for PVS diagnosis and some indicate much more accurate than MRI. This is not to say that an MRI can't be used also.

While the reading in the links below is lengthy, it is informative, explains how the brain functions and explains who she might have eye movement, make noise etc. yet be in a PVS. (The lower brain functions are specific and different from the upper brain.) In a nutshell, the lights on but nobody is home. The first link provides this tidbit of info...
"Many patients emerge from a vegetative state within a few weeks, but those who do not recover within 30 days are said to be in a Quick Facts about: persistent vegetative state
The chances of recovery depend on the extent of injury to the brain and the patient's age, with younger patients having a better chance of recovery than older patients.
Generally adults have a 50 percent chance and children a 60 percent chance of recovering consciousness from a PVS within the first 6 months. After a year, the chances that a PVS patient will regain consciousness are very low and most patients who do recover consciousness experience significant disability.

The longer a patient is in a PVS, the more severe the resulting disabilities will be. Rehabilitation can contribute to recovery, but many patients never progress to the point of being able to take care of themselves."

http://www.absoluteastronomy.com/encyclopedia/T/Tr/Traumatic_brain_injury.htm

http://hydranencephaly.com/drshewmonsarticle.htm

http://www.ninds.nih.gov/disorders/tbi/detail_tbi.htm
815 posted on 03/20/2005 8:37:42 AM PST by Smartaleck
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To: Howlin
the Congress will now decide who lives and dies.

No, even in this case the courts are deciding and Congress is second-guessing. If you are correct about your assessment of the separation of powers and the federal involvement in a state case, then Congress's law (if they can pass one) will be shot down in federal court. Many people here won't be happy about that, but that will be the end of it IMO.

816 posted on 03/20/2005 8:47:27 AM PST by palmer ("Oh you heartless gloaters")
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To: palmer
will be shot down in federal court.

I agree.

Many people here won't be happy about that, but that will be the end of it IMO.

I wouldn't count on that. :-)

817 posted on 03/20/2005 8:52:02 AM PST by Howlin
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To: Smartaleck
It doesn't appear you've spent much time reading the actual court proceedings?

Are those bedtime stories you read yourself to assuage your complicity ?

818 posted on 03/20/2005 9:02:37 AM PST by af_vet_1981
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To: Smartaleck
Shoot....I laugh at just about every other post! LOL

Excellent point!! (I hear ya!)

819 posted on 03/20/2005 9:08:49 AM PST by the Deejay
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To: Peach
So I guess you have these little talking points saved as a word document, because you seem to like to bounce from thread to thread (regarding Terri) and cut and paste. Could you at least take out that "without stating my opinion" bit...it is rather disingenuous.
820 posted on 03/20/2005 9:13:17 AM PST by amystitz
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To: Hildy
are you just using MS's appearance on Larry King as your talking points, or do you have any actual basis for these allegations
821 posted on 03/20/2005 9:15:04 AM PST by amystitz
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To: af_vet_1981
"Are those bedtime stories you read yourself to assuage your complicity?"

No. I've been reading the official records, testimony and depositions of noted experts and thinking for myself rather than relying on the assorted rumor, innuendo, speculation, ignorance, toucy-feely-laden-muddled-thinking, dis-information, disingenuous information, maudlin sentiments of opinion, vapid and vacuous thinking, and assorted BS of others.
FYI the bedtime story I'm currently reading is "The Autobiography of Henry the VIII." It's a tome of about 950 pages. Have you read it? ......probably not, there are no pictures.
822 posted on 03/20/2005 9:15:47 AM PST by Smartaleck
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To: amystitz; Peach

"Could you at least take out that "without stating my opinion" bit...it is rather disingenuous."

820 posts in this topic and that's your contribution?


823 posted on 03/20/2005 9:24:10 AM PST by Smartaleck
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To: Smartaleck

I'm sorry, do you actually have a cogent point to make?


824 posted on 03/20/2005 9:27:32 AM PST by amystitz
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To: amystitz

You're kidding, right?

I'm terribly conflicted about this. Who wouldn't be? It's a decision that's horrible to have to make.

But when I see freepers espouse as fact that Terri hasn't had a CAT scan, she hasn't been seen by neurologists, Michael tried to kill her, etc., I'm entitled and feel compelled to try and staunch the flow of that kind of insanity.

The court documents under oath by her own parents tells us differently than some of the crazy stuff some freepers are saying. If you want to see Free Republic sound just like DU, you're entitled. I think more of this fabulous forum than that, personally. So don't try to attibute motives to me which you don't know about. Thank you.


825 posted on 03/20/2005 9:41:24 AM PST by Peach (The Clintons pardoned more terrorists than they ever captured or killed.)
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To: amystitz

"I'm sorry, do you actually have a cogent point to make?"

Many that you've obviously not taken the time nor the effort to discern.

That said, it's easy to be tacky as you as already demonstrated. Point taken.


826 posted on 03/20/2005 9:44:09 AM PST by Smartaleck
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To: Smartaleck
FYI the bedtime story I'm currently reading is "The Autobiography of Henry the VIII." It's a tome of about 950 pages.

An apt book for Mark Schiavo to read, no ?

Have you read it? ......probably not, there are no pictures.

The High Sierra

It not only has pictures of people who don't murder other people, but also of the mountains, rivers, etc. that inspire them.

You can watch the mountains on TV.

827 posted on 03/20/2005 9:46:04 AM PST by af_vet_1981
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To: Smartaleck

oh, now my feelings are hurt


828 posted on 03/20/2005 9:48:09 AM PST by amystitz
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To: af_vet_1981

"The High Sierra"

Which begs the question, what have you read to support your opinions other than the opinions of others?


829 posted on 03/20/2005 10:53:37 AM PST by Smartaleck
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To: amystitz

"oh, now my feelings are hurt"

Well thanks for sharing your feelings. Have anything substantial to add to the conversation?


830 posted on 03/20/2005 10:55:58 AM PST by Smartaleck
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To: Smartaleck; Hildy; af_vet_1981
You will wear yourselves out responding to af_vet_1981. He's an ideologue who repeats the same things over and over and over, never actually responding to what you've said.

The bozo filter is your best bet.

831 posted on 03/20/2005 10:58:34 AM PST by sinkspur ("Preach the gospel. If necessary, use words.")
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To: sinkspur
You will wear yourselves out responding to af_vet_1981. He's an ideologue who repeats the same things over and over and over, never actually responding to what you've said. The bozo filter is your best bet.

Ah, another PerpDefender to the rescue ...

832 posted on 03/20/2005 1:00:42 PM PST by af_vet_1981
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To: Smartaleck
Which begs the question, what have you read to support your opinions other than the opinions of others?

By all means, continue. Every man should have the same rights to hold slaves, kill his women and children, and pursue his own pleasures. We have the lawyer class to thank.

833 posted on 03/20/2005 1:03:49 PM PST by af_vet_1981
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To: Hildy

Too many only want their own facts and nothing else need to considered.


834 posted on 03/20/2005 1:05:42 PM PST by OldFriend ("If there must be trouble, let it be in my day, that my child might have peace." Thomas Paine)
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To: out_of_control

Even India does not allow the spouse to throw themselves on the funeral pyre.


835 posted on 03/20/2005 1:06:41 PM PST by OldFriend ("If there must be trouble, let it be in my day, that my child might have peace." Thomas Paine)
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To: Peach

AMEN!


836 posted on 03/20/2005 1:11:33 PM PST by OldFriend ("If there must be trouble, let it be in my day, that my child might have peace." Thomas Paine)
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To: Howlin

My fear now is that living wills may be contested for a variety of reasons unheard of at this time.


837 posted on 03/20/2005 1:15:18 PM PST by OldFriend ("If there must be trouble, let it be in my day, that my child might have peace." Thomas Paine)
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To: OldFriend
Even India does not allow the spouse to throw themselves on the funeral pyre.

That is only because their lawyers are not as progressive as our lawyers.

838 posted on 03/20/2005 1:23:01 PM PST by af_vet_1981
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To: OldFriend

Additional excessive litigation is indeed a potential fallout here.


839 posted on 03/20/2005 1:40:57 PM PST by EveningStar
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To: EveningStar
I read, but do not know if it is true, that the constitution forbids laws aimed at a single person.

Certainly this is not the first time this has happened but I am not sure just what it is the congress is attempting here.

840 posted on 03/20/2005 1:42:29 PM PST by OldFriend ("If there must be trouble, let it be in my day, that my child might have peace." Thomas Paine)
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To: OldFriend

Right. When have you ever known of a law that wasn't "expanded?"


841 posted on 03/20/2005 2:23:38 PM PST by Howlin
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To: Howlin; Peach; Hildy; sinkspur; Poohbah; hchutch; Neets; veronica
Well, Hello. After pointedly ignoring this circus for a few days, it seems that it's still a hothouse of irrational emotion. However, a few observations...

Political capital is not endless, and the fanatical prolifers have depleted quite a bit here, both for themselves AND for the GOP. The fact that they forced the US federal government to get involved in this will NOT be forgotten by those who will shortly be quite embarassed by this whole thing. Certainly, the state of Florida, which is vital to any presidential hopeful, will long remember what the outside activist groups wrought there, and how certain lawmakers danced on their strings.

This issue has also shown that the GOP coalition does indeed have fault lines. As many have said before, they fall directly along the line between "Fiscal/National Security Conservative" and "Religio-Social Conservative". Those in group #2 have now demonstrated that things such as State's Rights, rule of law, and reason instead of emotionalism matter not a whit when they WWAAAAANNNTTTTT something. Rest assured, Karl Rove and others are taking good notes right now, and are surely taking note of which groups threatened the President, Florida governor, and Congressional Republicans with all manner of Hell if they didn't toe this particular line. In other words, they have proclaimed that their support is quite unreliable and subject to whim. Not that Rove didn't already know this (Think 2000 election), but it's nice to have proof.

Fallout: WHen the FACTS that such dogged truth-seekers as Peach and Hildy have ferreted out become more widely known among conservatives (and they WILL now that FR apparently accepts their posting), and the elected officials and honest, caring people who've been hoodwinked get the word that they've been lied to and their efforts abused, not only will they be rightly embarassed, they will also be quite angry at those who conned them.

All of which means that the GOP is facing a reckoning within itself that MUST be acknowledged and FIXED before 2008. Hillary! is surely watching the proceedings with amusement.

842 posted on 03/20/2005 2:39:35 PM PST by Long Cut ("Looks like meat's back on the menu, Boys!")
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To: Long Cut; OldFriend
All of which means that the GOP is facing a reckoning within itself that MUST be acknowledged and FIXED before 2008. Hillary! is surely watching the proceedings with amusement.

And people have the audacity to ponder Hillary's reasons for remaining so quiet on this issue. Feh!!!!!!!! Thanks LC!!

843 posted on 03/20/2005 2:44:17 PM PST by Neets
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To: Poohbah; hchutch; Hildy; Howlin

BTW, in the pool, options #2 and 4 seem to be the frontrunners so far. Betting is NOT closed yet, however.


844 posted on 03/20/2005 2:46:19 PM PST by Long Cut ("Looks like meat's back on the menu, Boys!")
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To: Neets
I have some VERY conservative co-workers who are now wondering why they should support the GOP if they will so easily ignore state's rights, disregard all the OTHER important issues they should be dealing with (and which it is their JOB to deal with) just for this one issue in Florida.

Think about it...we are in a war, Social Security will likely go bust along with Medicare, taxes are a mess, we desperately need tort reform and energy-policy reform, and yet the entire federal government + one state government are working round the clock for one woman in PVS who wanted to die in this circumstance.

And all for the bleating of a few activists.

One of my buddies, watching this unfold last week, summed it up thus:"WOW! Good thing nothing else is going on, or they wouldn't have had the time to put to this!". This was spoken in the context of a maintinence type who hasn't got the parts he needs to fix our squadron aircraft before we deploy this Summer.

845 posted on 03/20/2005 2:53:53 PM PST by Long Cut ("Looks like meat's back on the menu, Boys!")
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To: Neets
"And people have the audacity to ponder Hillary's reasons for remaining so quiet on this issue..."

She's nowhere near "the Smartest Woman In The World", but she's no moron, either.

Remember that old saying about "Better to remain silent and be thought the fool than to speak up and remove all doubt"?

She got to watch a LOT of Republicans remove some doubt this weekend.

846 posted on 03/20/2005 2:56:41 PM PST by Long Cut ("Looks like meat's back on the menu, Boys!")
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To: Neets
"And people have the audacity to ponder Hillary's reasons for remaining so quiet on this issue..."

She's nowhere near "the Smartest Woman In The World", but she's no moron, either.

Remember that old saying about "Better to remain silent and be thought the fool than to speak up and remove all doubt"?

She got to watch a LOT of Republicans remove some doubt this weekend.

847 posted on 03/20/2005 2:57:05 PM PST by Long Cut ("Looks like meat's back on the menu, Boys!")
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To: Neets

Double-posting gremlins got me again!!!


848 posted on 03/20/2005 2:57:44 PM PST by Long Cut ("Looks like meat's back on the menu, Boys!")
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To: Long Cut

I will have to keep my ears open tomorrow after everyone comes back from Spring Break to hear what the fall out is among the conservatives I work with. And the Dems.

More than half have done "boots on the ground" in Iraq and have seen goings on first hand. Some are even intimately involved in creating the first Military Academy in Afghanistan.

And as I am sure you are aware most the military here are very religious so I am curious as to their take on this on multiple levels.





849 posted on 03/20/2005 3:00:08 PM PST by Neets
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To: Long Cut
Remember that old saying about "Better to remain silent and be thought the fool than to speak up and remove all doubt"?

ROTFLMAO, funny you should mention that old saying:

I said the same thing here

850 posted on 03/20/2005 3:04:30 PM PST by Neets
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