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Michael Schiavo: A refusal to quit in the face of threats, anguish and vitriol.
The Inquirer ^ | Mar. 20, 2005 | Sandy Bauers

Posted on 03/20/2005 6:06:29 PM PST by Former Military Chick

He's been vilified on Web sites and talk shows. He's been called a wife-abuser, an adulterer, a money-grubbing murderer.

Death threats have been left in his mailbox.

Throngs of protesters have waved signs and chanted outside his house in Clearwater, Fla., and they have gathered again.

Sometimes, even Michael Schiavo's friends have wondered why, in the face of all that, he didn't just walk away.

It would have been easier for him to relinquish guardianship of his severely incapacitated wife, Terri, to her parents.

So why not give it up, leave Terri's feeding tube in, let her parents care for her? After all, he is living with another woman now and they have two children.

"Because he's sticking by what he promised," Scott Schiavo, Michael's brother, said in a recent interview. "He wants to honor the last thing he can give to her."

Physicians have testified that Terri Schiavo is in a persistent vegetative state and will never improve. Michael Schiavo has said his wife told him she would not want to live like this.

Her parents, Bob and Mary Schindler, formerly of Huntingdon Valley, say she is responsive and can be helped. They say that, as a Catholic, she would choose life at all costs.

On Friday, Terri Schiavo's feeding tube, which has been in place for all but two brief stretches of time since she collapsed in 1990, was removed. It could be brief this time as well. The House is expected today to consider a Senate bill that would allow Schiavo's parents to take their case to federal court.

Throughout the protracted legal battle, the Schindlers have made their religious views, their personal anguish, and their mistrust of Michael Schiavo a public cause.

Intensely private, according to his family and friends, Michael Schiavo has rarely spoken publicly about the matter, out of respect for his wife's privacy. Through his brother, he declined to be interviewed for this story.

However, in recent days he has gone on national TV to reiterate that Terri would not have wanted to live like this and criticize politicians for getting involved in a deeply personal matter.

His brother and friends also have decided that it's time to speak up. The mudslinging, they said, has become too ugly, too nasty.

"I have a friend who I think has been maligned," said Russ Hyden of Gainesville, Fla.

"We're tired of it. We're done. It's time people know who he is," said Scott Schiavo, who lives in Levittown near where the brothers were raised.

The thing is, even if Michael Schiavo wins the final court battle, and Terri Schiavo's feeding tube is removed, he really hasn't won at all, Scott said.

"He's already lost," he said. "He's already lost Terri."

Social with friends, but reclusive

His brother and friends describe Michael Schiavo as social within his circle of friends, but otherwise almost reclusive. Except for the No Trespassing sign on his front lawn and the armed guards he's occasionally hired to protect his home, he's tried to grasp whatever shreds of normalcy he can.

His friends don't see the demon that protesters who have hurled insults at him do.

Wilma Mackay, a 65-year-old retiree from Palm Harbor, Fla., who watched her husband and brother die of cancer, sees a man who is "the epitome of loyalty."

Bonnie Rowley of Largo, Fla., a friend for about a decade, sees someone who "stands strong on what he believes in, and that is Terri Schiavo. If I needed a health-care advocate, he'd be my first choice. I know he'd be there till the end, and he'd give it one hell of a fight."

Michael Schiavo, 41, was the youngest of five boys. Six-foot-seven, athletic and model-handsome, he met Terri Schindler at Bucks County Community College in 1982.

She had graduated from Archbishop Wood High School in Warminster, he from Woodrow Wilson High School in Bristol Township.

Married two years later, they moved to Florida, where, early on the morning of Feb. 25, 1990, Michael Schiavo has testified, he awoke to the sound of a thud and found Terri on the floor in the hallway, unconscious.

They had been married a little over five years.

He has spent three times as long - the last 15 years - first trying to bring her back, then trying to let her go, his friends and brother say.

In the beginning, they say, Schiavo was relentless in his search for his wife's cure. She underwent various therapies.

He rented a house large enough for him and Terri's parents, who had moved to the area.

He made sure she was dressed every day. He applied her makeup and dabbed on perfume, Rowley said.

He went to school to become a nurse, "because he wanted to take care of Terri," Scott said. "He swore that he could get Terri better... . One doctor said: 'Mike, you know what? There's nothing else we can do. The next time Terri gets sick, why don't you just let nature take its course?' And Mike wouldn't do it."

Death and defining moments

Many of the defining moments of Michael Schiavo's life have revolved around death.

In 1988, his grandmother was hospitalized with a serious illness. She had signed a "do not resuscitate" order, Scott Schiavo said, but when she worsened in the middle of the night, no one looked at her records.

"It took them I don't know how long to get her breathing again. They stuck a ventilator down her throat." To little avail. "She was brain-dead," Scott Schiavo recalled.

All the family could do was wait until medications that kept her heart beating wore off. It took a day and a half, he said.

After the funeral, the family went to the Buck Hotel in Feasterville. Scott and Terri were sitting next to each other at a large table, where the conversation turned to how upset their grandmother would have been at her final hours.

Terri turned to him, Scott Schiavo said, "and she said, 'Not me, no way, I don't want that.' She says, 'If I'm ever like that, oh, don't let me. Pull that tube out of me.' " Scott Schiavo said he testified about the incident in 2000.

Several years after Terri collapsed, Michael Schiavo's mother was diagnosed with cancer.

Eventually, medical complications required the removal of her feeding tube, Scott said. "It's not like we said: 'Turn it off.' "

She was kept "peaceful and out of pain" until she died, Scott said.

Then their father died.

Eventually, Scott said, his brother realized he would have to let Terri go, too.

The Schindlers - who did not respond to a request for an interview made through their lawyer - have been distrustful of his motives partly because, they have said, no one mentioned Terri's wishes until years after her collapse.

But, Scott said, "it's not something you think about while Mike's trying to save her life... . It's something that people do when there's nothing left to do."

This particular fight has not come without a price.

"I give Mike all the credit in the world, because I would have snapped already. I know how bad it hurts me when I hear people talking about him and downing him," Scott Schiavo said.

Most of all, Scott said, "the thing that tears him up is he worries at nighttime, if he's working. He's afraid for the kids and Jodi."

Love and moral dilemmas

Michael Schiavo met his girlfriend, identified in court records as Jodi Centonze, about a decade ago.

Initially, Rowley, who was Centonze's friend, didn't know what to think. The court battles had not yet heated up, but she knew the situation with Terri.

When Rowley met Michael Schiavo, what she noticed first was his "great smile, a gentle smile."

Gradually, her respect grew. "He could have stepped off and divorced Terri five years ago, when this really hit the court. And got married and started his family that way," Rowley said.

The couple has two toddlers - a daughter and a son. Michael Schiavo works in the medical unit of the Pinellas County Jail.

Both Centonze and Michael Schiavo had to face "their own moral dilemmas as far as having children out of wedlock," Rowley said. "But the two of them weren't getting any younger... So does that make him a bad person because he did that? Did he fluff his responsibility to Terri at any point? No."

It is Centonze, Scott Schiavo said, who now does all Terri's laundry. "She's been unbelievable. She supported Mike in everything he did... . She's gone with Mike to visit Terri. She's helped Mike clean Terri up."

Centonze has been a flashpoint for Michael Schiavo's critics who think it is a reason to disqualify him to be Terri's guardian. His living with Centonze "abrogates the covenant of marriage," said Rob Schenck, president of the National Clergy Council, who was among the demonstrators outside the hospice on Friday.

Looking back on it now, Scott thinks his brother "just wanted somebody to love him." He equates it with a widower who remarries, "but it doesn't mean that that person stopped loving their spouse that passed on. Mike was very lonely. I mean, he was a 26-year-old kid" when Terri collapsed.

"It's hard to imagine the circumstances he lived under," friend Russ Hyden said. "There was no closure, yet there was no companionship either. That's the worst possible scenario."

Hyden had met Schiavo in 1991. Hyden's pregnant wife had been diagnosed with cancer. A mutual friend thought they "might have something in common. And we did."

But it was more than that they were both going through "life-changing ordeals," Hyden said. "We both liked to play a little golf. We enjoyed each other's company."

Hyden scoffs at the accusations about Schiavo taking the malpractice money awarded to Terri. "If there was so much money, where was that money when I first met Mike? Why wasn't he driving a big car and living in a big home? He was driving a Jeep and living in an apartment."

Hyden's wife lived for almost three more years. He and Schiavo spoke or saw each other several times a week.

"He was always great with my kids," Hyden said. Hyden's daughter was 2, his son 7, and Michael brought them gifts.

"He spent a great deal of time helping me put my family back together," Hyden said. "Perhaps it was because his had fallen so tragically apart."

Sympathy for Terri's parents

In a way, Michael Schiavo has said he can sympathize with Terri's parents. "I have children, and, you know, I couldn't even fathom what it would be like to lose a child," he said in an interview on Nightline last week.

But, he continued, "they know the condition Terri is in. They were there in the beginning. They heard the doctors. They know that Terri's in a persistent vegetative state. They testified to that at the original trial. Fifteen years - you've got to come to grips with it sometime."

He said Terri would "always be a part of my life.

"And to sit here and be called a murderer and an adulterer by people that don't know me, and a governor stepping into my personal, private life, who doesn't know me either? And using his personal gain to win votes, just like the legislators are doing right now, pandering to the religious right, to the people up there, the antiabortion people, standing outside of Tallahassee?

"What kind of government is this? This is a human being. This is not right."

In a way, Michael Schiavo's world still revolves around Terri. He calls every day and visits several times a week, Scott Schiavo said. He can still talk to her, even if she doesn't talk back.

Michael Schiavo yesterday told CNN that he had a "sense of relief" now that the feeding tube had been removed and he promised to "stay by her side" till the end.

"This is her time...," he said. "I will love her and I will hold her hand."

--------------------------

Contact staff writer Sandy Bauers at 610-701-7635 or sbauers@phillynews.com.

* * * * * * * * * *

Congress tries again to stop Schiavo death

Timeline of the Terri Schiavo Case

Recent court rulings and other materials related to the Terri Schiavo case:

5 Wishes a Site that helps one prepare if one is unable to speak for themselves.

Partnership for Caring

Statutory Form of Declaration

* * * * * * * * * *


TOPICS: News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: congress; endoflife; michaelschiavo; schiavo; terri; terrischiavo
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To: PFKEY

...This case has made FreeRepublic look as kooky as our friends at DU.

.....
Well - guess we are just kooky.

Guess it is kooky to care that a 40 year old lady is being killed by a husband right in front of our eyes with state support. Dang - how dumb and ignorant can we be.

Guess it is kooky to speak up when we see a new defining line as to when life is ended. WHO IS DECIDING ALL OF THESE REASONS TO KILL OFF OUR WEAK? (Pure kookiness)

But - you see - I get highly irate when I see people mistreating the weak, changing the death criteria in America, when I see judges that are not impartial ruling a case for years and not appearing to provide any respect or rights to the parents and Terri.

I also get really scared when I see how many Freepers see nothing wrong with killing others when THEY DECIDE THAT PERSON WOULD NOT WANT TO LIVE ACCORDING TO THEIR OWN STANDARDS. I depend on these freepers and I am very afraid of what will happen to our country with the death culture making such great strides on all fronts.

Kooky, kooky, kooky.




..


451 posted on 03/21/2005 1:50:50 AM PST by ClancyJ (Sometimes we're a think tank, and sometimes we're just a tank ! - SlowBoat 407)
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To: PFKEY
>> I call 911 and say my wife has collapesed and is unconscious. She is taken to the hospital and examined.<<

Michael did not call 911. At some point he called the Schindlers. Terri's brother came to the apartment and found Terri on the floor, inert and unresponsive. It was he who called for emergency aid. Bobby said that Michael was sitting in another room as if in a daze.

She was taken to an ER where a desperate effort was made to revive her. It's not like they gave her a physical.

>> She is in a coma. <<

She was for all practical purposes dead. She was not breathing at all and not responsive.

>> The doctors find these compression fractures and conclude that her condition is a result or likely result of these injuries.<<

The ER doctors knew nothing of this. The bone scan was taken a year later.

Interestingly, Michael's lawyers later concealed the incriminating bone scan from the Schindlers, for years, along with Terri's other medical records. It was only revealed by accident. Whether the court knew about it is disputed. But if it did know and didn't pursue an investigation for criminal assault on Terri, it was grossly negligent. That would be one more -- fatal -- error in Judge Greer's biased handling of the case.

Keep in mind there was only one possible suspect in this assault -- Michael.

I asked two FR physicians to examine the scan and both affirmed that Terri had suffered major traumas. Her injuries were far worse than anything she could have suffered by "collapsing." The injuries are consistent with a beating or the stress of fighting desperately to breathe while she was being smothered.

Michael is a big man, twice Terri's size. The injuries sharply suggest that he got on her back, pinning her down with one knee on her back and one on her leg (bones fractured in both spots) and smothered her.

452 posted on 03/21/2005 1:56:58 AM PST by T'wit (Retire to Florida! Bring your estate. No feeding tube needed. The crematorium is warm and ready!)
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To: PFKEY

Another point. If Michael did win the malpractice suit for "whatever" and, in actuality, he caused the damage to her through something and failed to provide CPR, would he be required to repay those funds should his guilt be discovered?

We've all wondered why such a strong interest in her death and logically it is because of Michael rather than because of Terri since he is a control freak.

How come he is surrounded on all sides by euthanasia proponents - the hospice, his lawyer, the owner of the hospice and major euthanasia promoter and Judge Greer?


453 posted on 03/21/2005 1:57:20 AM PST by ClancyJ (Sometimes we're a think tank, and sometimes we're just a tank ! - SlowBoat 407)
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To: ClancyJ
Kooky, kooky, kookyWhat is kooky is all the conspiracy theories.

It is not kooky to want to defend life.

Sigh...

454 posted on 03/21/2005 2:01:31 AM PST by PFKEY
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To: T'wit
I asked two FR physicians to examine the scan and both affirmed that Terri had suffered major traumas. Her injuries were far worse than anything she could have suffered by "collapsing." The injuries are consistent with a beating or the stress of fighting desperately to breathe while she was being smothered.

I find it hard to believe that these injuries are a rusult of major truma sustained the night she collapsed and the doctors who traded her that night failed to notice them?

She collapesed for unknown reason and they don't do a physical?

They tried to revive her and when they couldn't they just say oh well?

We don't know what happended but hey we don't do physicals on practically dead people. People who are practically dead for some unkown reason?

Still not buying it.

455 posted on 03/21/2005 2:07:40 AM PST by PFKEY
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To: ClancyJ
Another point. If Michael did win the malpractice suit for "whatever" and, in actuality, he caused the damage to her through something and failed to provide CPR, would he be required to repay those funds should his guilt be discovered?

I would think that would be reasonable but the fact remains that a jury has already determined that malpractice was the cause.

How come he is surrounded on all sides by euthanasia proponents - the hospice, his lawyer, the owner of the hospice and major euthanasia promoter and Judge Greer?

I'm not very good at coming up with conspiracies. Why do you think it is?

456 posted on 03/21/2005 2:10:31 AM PST by PFKEY
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To: PFKEY

Begging your pardon, there is no conspiracy theory involved. There is, however, strong medical evidence, from blood chemistry as well as the bone scan, that Michael Schiavo tried to smother his wife in 1990 in the course of an ordinary domestic fight.


457 posted on 03/21/2005 2:10:46 AM PST by T'wit (Retire to Florida! Bring your estate. No feeding tube needed. The crematorium is warm and ready!)
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To: PFKEY

Well you know how we are - same was done with Scott, OJ, anything we are all fired up about. We all throw in our theories while we wait for the news.

Sometimes, we figure things out. Same kookiness that appears at the watercooler.


458 posted on 03/21/2005 2:11:29 AM PST by ClancyJ (Sometimes we're a think tank, and sometimes we're just a tank ! - SlowBoat 407)
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To: Howlin

Its funny ist it 40,000 children are aborted a day just in this country and not one man can stop what a woman wants to do with her body !

And yet this one man is allowed to murder his wife only on heresay his heresay with no medical exam to probe the facts and being dead she would be immediatly cremated with once again no exam i doubt very much if he's telling the truth about anything .

We kill to many of our own in this country

Every female in this country has the right to abortion if they want it and no man can stop them through any court its been tried and tried to no avail

Why should mike be able to Kill his wife who at the least is or has at the momment the mind of a child .

Now i hear there are recordings of her responding to her father recent recordings would prove she is not a vegatable but a victim of some sinister plot to shut her up .

Whats mike got to lose after 15 years of torture or the judge for that matter ....?


459 posted on 03/21/2005 2:17:02 AM PST by ATOMIC_PUNK (What are we as a country without our God Our law or our Constitution FREEDOM pales without all 3)
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To: PFKEY
>> We don't know what happended but hey we don't do physicals on practically dead people. People who are practically dead for some unkown reason?

We do know what happened to her. It took time to develop the information. A person can be smothered with few or no external marks.

460 posted on 03/21/2005 2:19:25 AM PST by T'wit (Retire to Florida! Bring your estate. No feeding tube needed. The crematorium is warm and ready!)
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To: T'wit
Begging your pardon, there is no conspiracy theory involved. There is, however, strong medical evidence, from blood chemistry as well as the bone scan, that Michael Schiavo tried to smother his wife in 1990 in the course of an ordinary domestic fight.

There was no clear evidence at the time or the doctors would have noticed it don't you think?

You also said...

She was taken to an ER where a desperate effort was made to revive her. It's not like they gave her a physical.

Desperately trying to revive her?

When she was brought in her heart was beating and she was breathing so what were they desperately trying to revive her from? A comma? All they knew initally is that she was unconscious. From there they set about doing a physical to determine why she is unconscious.

They especial look for trama as well as run all kinds of blood work.

From their physical it was determined that her heart had stopped beating for some reason, causing lack of oxygen to flow to her brain, causing her to be in a coma, thus causing permanent brain damage, ultimately causing her to be PVS.

461 posted on 03/21/2005 2:25:01 AM PST by PFKEY
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To: ClancyJ
We all throw in our theories while we wait for the news.

True enough but I think the facts are in the best that we will ever have them. And the facts tell us she is in her condition because of a chemical imbalance that caused her heart to stop beating which caused loss of oxygen to flow to her brain resulting in permanent brain damage.

462 posted on 03/21/2005 2:29:03 AM PST by PFKEY
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To: Former Military Chick

I wondered if this piece would mention the obvious....Terri's life insurance, but it didn't. Also, who is paying Terri's medical bills? This might impact the thinking of some one way or another. But in the long run, when some sick or handicapped person becomes either an emotional or financial burden families can't or won't cope with, the taxpayer ends up paying. Since these are the most vulnerable Americans, they shouldn't be tossed out like so much garbage, especially when we're paying billions for illegal aliens' medical/educational/welfare. If Terri Schiavo dies because of this, the door is open to do the same to countless others.


463 posted on 03/21/2005 2:29:57 AM PST by hershey
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To: T'wit
We do know what happened to her. It took time to develop the information. A person can be smothered with few or no external marks.

If you have evidence of this crime it is your obligation to report it to law enforcement otherwise you are an accomplice.

If you have no proof and apperently neither does anyone else then what you are saying is this is your theory, a conspiracy theory.

I'll stick with the fact instead of what someone typing on FR who is unlikely to have any first hand knowledge of the parties involved in this case.

Thanks for playing.

464 posted on 03/21/2005 2:34:10 AM PST by PFKEY
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To: Randjuke
Giving more powers to the federal government makes a bad situation worse.

You better believe it does.

465 posted on 03/21/2005 3:31:16 AM PST by BigSkyFreeper (You have a //cuckoo// God given right //Yeeeahrgh!!// to be an //Hello?// atheist)
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To: Mo1
Howlin's concerns are about Congress over stepping their bounds

The parents/family of Terri Shiavo begged congress to step in. Without something in writing from Terri, and family willing/begging to take care of her, why should the decision be to let her die?

I agree that it has nothing to do with Michael Shiavo's morality, it's about life and death and no written directive from Terri. We should always come down on the side of life when this is the case.

The government gets involved in all sorts of "personal/family matters" when there is or is not something in writing. Why not this one?

466 posted on 03/21/2005 3:38:33 AM PST by jennyjenny
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To: T'wit
I asked two FR physicians to examine the scan and both affirmed that Terri had suffered major traumas.

What are their screen names? Please post links to their comments.

467 posted on 03/21/2005 3:44:40 AM PST by sinkspur ("Preach the gospel. If necessary, use words.")
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To: T'wit
There is, however, strong medical evidence, from blood chemistry as well as the bone scan, that Michael Schiavo tried to smother his wife in 1990 in the course of an ordinary domestic fight.

How come the insurance company lawyers for the doctor in the malpractice case didn't use this as a defense for dismissing the lawsuit?

You don't think they investigated this angle thoroughly?

468 posted on 03/21/2005 3:46:38 AM PST by sinkspur ("Preach the gospel. If necessary, use words.")
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To: T'wit
We do know what happened to her.

The kooks know what happened to her, but you guys are just making stuff up out of whole cloth.

469 posted on 03/21/2005 3:47:48 AM PST by sinkspur ("Preach the gospel. If necessary, use words.")
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To: MikeinIraq

> death threats go above and beyond the normal bounds

You're right about death threats. But they are, to this point, words without actions. HINO has indulged in many actions detrimental to Terri's well-being; preventing relevent neurological testing that would determine her ability to recover, keeping her isolated, refusing to permit rehabilitative therapy, etc., etc. HINO's pursuit of a judicial order for Terri's execution by starvation is also beyond the normal bounds.
I don't approve of death threats either, but he did choose to go down this path which turned out to be a national flash point and highly emotionally charged issue. Like Truman said, "If you can't take the heat, stay out of the kitchen."
Everyone would have been better off if Michael Schiavo had not pursued this years' long effort -- on his hearsay evidence claim.


470 posted on 03/21/2005 3:48:56 AM PST by l.tecolote (doing what I can from California)
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To: UCANSEE2
I am sorry, but you are completely wrong.


No I'm NOT wrong!
Friday, early, afternoon Judge Greer ordered the feeding tube to be removed, NOT Michael!!
Therefore he should be impeached, and hopefully with Congress new ruling 203-58, maybe Congress also will go after Greer, which I heard both DeLay and Frist said they would, in an interview with Sean Hanity's radio show Friday afternoon. I would also like to see Michael and his cahoot Felos being charged of attempted murderers as well!!!
471 posted on 03/21/2005 4:23:07 AM PST by danamco
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To: DameAutour

Your post number 435 is the most sensible I've read so far, and I've read alot!


472 posted on 03/21/2005 4:33:50 AM PST by tuffydoodle
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To: PFKEY
If there is proof he tried to off her, why didn't the defendants in the malpractice suit WHO ARE DOCTORS, after all, use that as a defense before they paid out all that money?

My response
Could be because after he got the money for the therapy, he refused the therapy...He spent over 400,000 of it on his lawyer trying to 'let her die' instead...

After, still means after...Look at the context of the posts...

Your response
He wouldn't be awarded this money until he won the malpractice suite for her collapse and current condition for which you allege MS is responsible for.

Besides you, who said this?
Unless you are saying that the only proof for her condition would be her saying that MS did this to me which in your previous post you said there were multiple broken bone.

Sorry but your logic escapes me.

After reading your posts, I'd say that's understandable....It all may make sense when you figure out who posted what to whom and in what context...Good luck...

473 posted on 03/21/2005 4:39:55 AM PST by Iscool
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To: muawiyah

"nicht einmal unheimlich"

It would help if you translated that.


474 posted on 03/21/2005 4:57:17 AM PST by exDemMom (Euthanasia, NO WAY. Youth in Asia, OF COURSE.)
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To: UCANSEE2
At this state Michael can NOT do anything, just walk away or stay! I am sorry, but you are completely wrong.


So, like you say I'm wrong, well then DeLay must also be completely wrong??? Read carefully the last 1-1/2 line of DeLay's comment! ........Quote:
"A death row inmate has more of a process to go through than Terri Schiavo does," DeLay said earlier on ABC News' "Good Morning America" Saturday. "All we're doing in Congress is giving Terri Schiavo an opportunity to come to the federal courts and review what this judge in Florida has been doing, and he's been trying to kill Terri for 4 1/2 years."

....Hugh?
475 posted on 03/21/2005 4:59:09 AM PST by danamco
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To: Former Military Chick

Thanks for this perspective. Have tended to mistrust him wholesale.

It does seem to highlight, at least for me, how important it is to have a fresh, independent review--hopefully with an MRI scan or some such.


476 posted on 03/21/2005 5:06:16 AM PST by Quix (HAVING A FORM of GODLINESS but DENYING IT'S POWER. 2 TIM 3:5)
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To: Howlin; Stakka Skynet; PFKEY

Oh, quit it, I've seen your posts on other Terri threads.

You're one of those quite happy to hide behind euphemisms like "let her slip away" or "let her go" rather than admit this comes down to a case of killing someone who is inconvenient to society. Guess what? Little babies and teenagers can be very inconvenient to parents, siblings and society.

I'm under no illusions about what is happening. Terri is not dying, she is being killed, slowly and cruelly. I would guess this comes under the heading of "cruel and unusual punishment."

In your eyes, I'm only an ass because I dare question your stance and your refusal to admit Terri is being killed. If you are going to argue for death, at least be honest about it and not hide behind phrases that make you feel better.

The other problem I have with Terri is the fact to many people want to look at this case in isolation, and not at the broader ramifications for this country.

I've seen a lot of conflicting and contradictory statements regarding Terri.

However, one rule of thumb I do have is this: If the NYT editorializes for Terry dying, then I'm against it. Well, okay, I have other reasons, just thought I'd toss that one out there.

Nice, by the way. Call me names, yet not answer any of my questions.


477 posted on 03/21/2005 5:11:18 AM PST by stylin_geek (Liberalism: comparable to a chicken with its head cut off, but with more spastic motions)
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To: Former Military Chick
Michael is a man with a mission. He works overtime to give the DemocRATs an issue.

The DemocRATs are full of surprises!

They have finally picked out the hill, the defense of which they are prepared to die: Hill No. 2008 or Mt. Schaivo.

Unfortunately some RepublicRATs are scambling to join their leftist allies, but there's no surprises here. These RepublicRATs are the ones usually allied with America's enemies and are the reason I NEVER contribute funds to the RNC.

478 posted on 03/21/2005 5:12:54 AM PST by JesseHousman (Execute Mumia Abu-Jamal Today)
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To: MikeinIraq
I don't care who is lying and who isnt, death threats go above and beyond the normal bounds and no matter what this jack@$$ adulterer did or didnt do, is uncalled for.

This is coming from the radical pro-life minority that is led by Randall Terry and the likes of Paul Hill, Jim Kopp and Eric Rudolph!

479 posted on 03/21/2005 5:13:51 AM PST by TexasCajun
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To: Former Military Chick
...in the end we may disagree but we do so based on an intellectual and respectful discussion

This is the end.

Speeding up the death of Mrs. Schaivo is akin to murder and is rather like being buried alive knowing there's nothing you can do to stop them from killing you.

480 posted on 03/21/2005 5:18:07 AM PST by JesseHousman (Execute Mumia Abu-Jamal Today)
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To: stylin_geek

No way you're gonna get a straight answer to a straight question.


481 posted on 03/21/2005 6:23:15 AM PST by tuffydoodle
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To: JesseHousman

I just saw on Fox news that Mikey basically told the president to mind his own business. I don't blame him, I hate it when the authorities step when when I'm trying to kill someone by starvation.


482 posted on 03/21/2005 6:38:36 AM PST by tuffydoodle
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To: tuffydoodle
#82: Good point Tuffy!

Mind your own business while I'm killing my wife.

483 posted on 03/21/2005 6:42:29 AM PST by JesseHousman (Execute Mumia Abu-Jamal Today)
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To: Crazieman
I would believe the guy if he wasn't shacked up with another woman and had 2 kids already.
That is dishonest and unloyal in itself.

This should be reason enough to take him out of the case.
484 posted on 03/21/2005 6:46:54 AM PST by Delphinium
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To: JesseHousman

I keep reading about this case and I can't believe it's gone as far as it has. It stinks to high heaven.


485 posted on 03/21/2005 6:58:52 AM PST by tuffydoodle
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To: T'wit
I asked two FR physicians to examine the scan and both affirmed that Terri had suffered major traumas.

I am a physician and would appreciate the opportunity to review her bone scan. The links I have seen do not work, do you have a link?

486 posted on 03/21/2005 7:07:30 AM PST by Randjuke
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To: stylin_geek
Oh, quit it, I've seen your posts on other Terri threads. You're one of those quite happy to hide behind euphemisms like "let her slip away" or "let her go" rather than admit this comes down to a case of killing someone who is inconvenient to society.

You are a liar; I've never said anything CLOSE to that.

487 posted on 03/21/2005 7:25:08 AM PST by Howlin
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To: Howlin

So far you've called me an ass and a liar, but you've not answered my questions.

What's the matter, calling it like it is making you uncomfortable?

I didn't say you "said," I put you in the same company as. Big difference.

I have to admit, I'm enjoying the fact I've upset you while reducing you to claiming something I didn't say.

Is this the best you can do? Or, do you just want to admit you can't justify your position?


488 posted on 03/21/2005 7:47:15 AM PST by stylin_geek (Liberalism: comparable to a chicken with its head cut off, but with more spastic motions)
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To: stylin_geek

Here's a handy hint for you: most people don't want to discuss ANYTHING with somebody who starts off by lying about them.

You fall into that category; but carry on.


489 posted on 03/21/2005 7:54:44 AM PST by Howlin
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To: Howlin

Calling me a liar isn't a refutation of what I said about you.

What was it I said about you? Or, did I merely describe you as one of those comfortable with the idea of "Terri slipping away?"


490 posted on 03/21/2005 8:00:55 AM PST by stylin_geek (Liberalism: comparable to a chicken with its head cut off, but with more spastic motions)
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To: stylin_geek

As much as you rant, I don't have to refute a lie, period.


491 posted on 03/21/2005 8:04:46 AM PST by Howlin
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To: mewzilla
I've got just one question: What if he's lying?

Shame on you! He just "forgot" "her dying wish" until after he got the malpractice awards.

He's scum.

492 posted on 03/21/2005 8:15:24 AM PST by iconoclast (Better to take refuge in the Lord than to put one's trust in princes. (Psalms 118:9).)
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To: stylin_geek
You're one of those quite happy to hide behind euphemisms like "let her slip away" or "let her go" rather than admit this comes down to a case of killing someone who is inconvenient to society.

Wrong on that!

Silence right now would be a great virtue for you!

493 posted on 03/21/2005 8:26:49 AM PST by beyond the sea (Colonial Script........... or nationalize The Federal Bank..)
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To: Double DDs
Why did it take 8 years for Mr Schiavo to bring up this no life support?????????????

Because, to phrase it in his loving, caring manner, he didn't expect the "bitch" to survive this long without the treatment that he purposely withheld.

494 posted on 03/21/2005 8:28:18 AM PST by iconoclast (Better to take refuge in the Lord than to put one's trust in princes. (Psalms 118:9).)
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To: Howlin; Stakka Skynet; PFKEY

I looked back through your posts, and I notice you are fond of "asking questions."

Well, I asked you questions, why not answer them?

You keep harping about "the rule of law" and how this will "destroy the GOP," and "law of unintended consequences."

Are you also ignoring the consequences that may flow from Judge Greer's ruling? What about Judge Greer going ahead with having the feeding tube removed even after a Congressional subpoena? Nation of laws, remember?

I asked you questions after lumping you in with the right to die crowd. However, it appears you used this as a convenient out to avoid answering inconvenient questions.

Now, you've again resorted to name calling by tossing out the charge of "ranting."

If I was wrong in putting you in the right to kill crowd, then why don't you say so? If you do belong to the right to kill crowd, then why not try to support that position?


495 posted on 03/21/2005 8:33:22 AM PST by stylin_geek (Liberalism: comparable to a chicken with its head cut off, but with more spastic motions)
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To: stylin_geek

Because I am not going to defend myself to a liar.

No stop posting to me.


496 posted on 03/21/2005 8:34:42 AM PST by Howlin
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To: PFKEY

Terri is Catholic, I'm not sure what religion, if any Michael professes. Seems to me he professes the religion of EGO and convenience (i.e. kill the burdensome disabled wife, move on to a new family, etc...).

But that aside, although Catholics don't really belive in divorce, he is committing adultery with this new woman and therefore has abrogated the marriage covenant.

Also, I would think the Church would look upon divorce as opposed to murder as the lesser of two evils.

I, too, would be in favor of her "right to die" under a few conditions:

1) She had expressed her wish to be starved in writing AND she is terminally ill.

2) Absolutely everything had been done for her (therapeutic efforts 15 or so years ago just don't cut in in light of recent advances in technology). Particularly efforts to help her eat "naturally".

3) Michael is indeed the loving husband he claims to be. Becoming involved and having children with another woman while your wife is disabled does not demonstrate that you have her wishes and best interests at heart.

Even under those circumstances, I would support terminating her feeding extremely reluctantly, as I just can't wrap my brain around the concept of taking affirmative steps to starve a person to death, unless they are terminally ill and the person's entire family supports it, not just a spouse who has already moved on with his life.

Bottom line, he should divorce her, not kill her. He absolutely has the legal right to do so but refuses. This is the fact of this case which bothers me the most. She has people ready, willing and able to care for her but he refuses to let them do it. It is indeed a sad situation.


497 posted on 03/21/2005 8:35:24 AM PST by GatorGirl
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To: beyond the sea

Oh please, she's already called me a liar. Now you jump in?

Go back through and read my postings very carefully.

From her questions, it lead me to believe she was in the "right to kill crowd." However, I did my research, and she is actually playing the "above the fray" game.

So, it comes down to, what is her position, and can she defend it? She cited "rule of law" in one of her posts. However, Judge Greer has clearly violated the "rule of law" by ignoring a Congressional subpoena.

Howlin also goes on about the "law of unintended consequences." That cuts both ways, because there are most certainly unintended consequences that can flow from Judge Greer's ruling.

Now, since I'm a liar, an ass, and do nothing more than rant, Howlin wants me to stop posting to her. I guess I made her a bit uncomfortable when I asked her position on this. But, I'll stop making her uncomfortable. After all, she is uncomfortable enough, what with straddling the fence like she is.


498 posted on 03/21/2005 8:51:06 AM PST by stylin_geek (Liberalism: comparable to a chicken with its head cut off, but with more spastic motions)
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To: stylin_geek

ILLEGITIMUS NON CARBORUNDUM! ;o)


499 posted on 03/21/2005 8:54:15 AM PST by iconoclast (Better to take refuge in the Lord than to put one's trust in princes. (Psalms 118:9).)
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To: stylin_geek; Howlin; Long Cut

I happen to have a lot of doubt about Michael's side of the story. The big reason is that he has shacked up with another woman, and has two kids with her. That makes Terri awfully inconvenient for him. To be honest, George Felos also gives me the creeps.

I also think that the folks supporting Terri have acquired a HUGE case of groupthink and have tossed out some unsubstantiated allegations that could come back to bite Free Republic and the conservative movement in general. Making false accusations will not help Terri or the effort agaisnt euthanasia. It will only be used against the right-to-life movement down the road.

People who want to get the facts straight and to deal with this situation rationally are not the enemy, and quite frankly, I resent seeing decent folks labeled as "pro-death" because they are not marching in lockstep. And to be blunt, there are other matter that need to be dealt with - at least one P-3 squadron is having a hard time finding the spare parts it needs to get its aircraft ready for a deployment. What do you think the maintenence personnel on that squadron think of this?


500 posted on 03/21/2005 9:00:13 AM PST by hchutch ("But, Rally, they're SMOKE GRENADES.")
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