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Recent articles in Scientific American have talked about traveling faster than light.
Scientific American ^ | 03/20/05 | Jorge

Posted on 03/20/2005 8:31:45 PM PST by KevinDavis

Einstein's special theory of relativity predicts that nothing can exceed the speed of light. But special relativity applies when spacetime is flat. When spacetime is curved, the theory applies only "locally"--that is, over regions of spacetime small enough to be considered flat. Consider the analogy of a plane that is tangent to a sphere. The flat geometry of the plane is a good approximation to the geometry of the sphere when the size of the plane is very small compared to the sphere's radius of curvature.

(Excerpt) Read more at sciam.com ...


TOPICS: Miscellaneous; News/Current Events; Philosophy
KEYWORDS: fasterthanlight; justtodamnfast; physics; podkletnov; science; space; warp; wasntspeedingofficer
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To: KevinDavis

I say we reach light speed first then try to go faster after that. Wake me up when we reach light speed. ZZZZzzzzzzzzzzz.


51 posted on 03/20/2005 9:28:52 PM PST by fish hawk (The best thing about the "Vast Right Wing Conspiracy" is : it is Vast and it is Right Wing.)
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To: KevinDavis
Never say never. Anything can be done.

No one will ever prove that an angle can be trisected using only an unruled straightedge and a collapsible compass.

No one will ever prove that the square root of 2 is equal to a ratio of two integers.

And these classics are only the tip of the iceberg of things that no one will ever prove.

Sorry, Kevin, but "Anything can be done" is a false statement.

52 posted on 03/20/2005 9:31:06 PM PST by snarks_when_bored
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To: TheGeezer

So, you should only go at the speed of light during the day time. Good to know.


53 posted on 03/20/2005 9:31:54 PM PST by durasell (Friends are so alarming, My lover's never charming...)
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To: snarks_when_bored

What is the Space Time thing?


54 posted on 03/20/2005 9:35:13 PM PST by noutopia (Home of the brave,not the spineless.)
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To: det dweller too

No, there was an experiment done a couple years ago using the same methodology determining the speed of light - Jupiter and mistimed calculations due to speed of light error.

Jupiter was to pass by a loud radio source, and it was determined when and how the gravity would alter the signal given speed of light values, or instantaneous values.

The speed of the influence of gravitational effects is the speed of light. This means if the sun were to spontaneously vanish from the center of the solar system, it would take 8 minutes for the earth to fly off in a straight line.


55 posted on 03/20/2005 9:36:12 PM PST by Crazieman (Islam. Religion of peace, and they'll kill you to prove it.)
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To: DYngbld
I'm hung up with the whole infinite mass issue.

It's an issue of dimensions, not speed in space-time.

56 posted on 03/20/2005 9:36:18 PM PST by D Rider
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To: noutopia
What is the Space Time thing?

Not sure what your question means.

57 posted on 03/20/2005 9:40:57 PM PST by snarks_when_bored
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To: thoughtomator
It may well turn out that trying to travel that way will be akin to going from New York to Beijing by tunnelling through the planet.

I don't think so, take into account solar flares cause fuxuations in the Earth magnetic field which might prevent the creation of a 'on planet' stable wormhole for any amount of time.

But I do see the possiblity of this research leading to a gate system that is at one quarter of the speed of light (in a vacuum) like what is shown in the anime Cowboy Bebop and maybe someday a warp drive.

58 posted on 03/20/2005 9:44:20 PM PST by Paul C. Jesup
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To: Paul C. Jesup

Diamonds reduce light to about 60% of lights speed in a vaccuum. That's why its refraction raating is so high.


59 posted on 03/20/2005 9:45:08 PM PST by lepton ("It is useless to attempt to reason a man out of a thing he was never reasoned into"--Jonathan Swift)
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To: Spktyr
Yes, now we just have to build starships that can do that - and use them to deport the liberals. ;)

Yup, gee, that's really great. Instead of having one solar system to f**k up, you're now gonna give them multiple systems to do their work. Plus, with FTL, there's no way to "vote with your feet" that they can't reach you at. No thanks.

60 posted on 03/20/2005 9:46:31 PM PST by adx (Why's it called "tourist season" if you ain't allowed to shoot 'em?)
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To: lepton
Diamonds reduce light to about 60% of lights speed in a vaccuum. That's why its refraction raating is so high.

Speaking of diamonds, have you heard about research in light based computers using artifical diamonds as light based CPUs.

61 posted on 03/20/2005 9:47:38 PM PST by Paul C. Jesup
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To: adx

I was thinking of sending them into a convenient black hole. Who said anything about installing manual controls on the ships?


62 posted on 03/20/2005 9:52:42 PM PST by Spktyr (Overwhelmingly superior firepower and the willingness to use it is the only proven peace solution.)
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To: Bouchart

What if speed is only relative to where you are actually are and you can continue to accelerate to a unlimited speed. For example, you are actually sitting still in an automobile or airplane, but the automobile or airplane is moving as is the earth.


63 posted on 03/20/2005 10:10:36 PM PST by U S Army EOD (John Kerry, the mother of all flip floppers.I)
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To: noutopia

"What is the Space Time thing?"

A guy on a moving spaceship shoots gun once and again at a later time.

All observers will measure a distance and time between shots where the change in distance squared minus the change in time squared equals a number that is the same for all observers.


64 posted on 03/20/2005 10:43:14 PM PST by staytrue
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To: staytrue

That clears that up.WOW what a chowderhead I am.Stupid me!!!


65 posted on 03/20/2005 10:53:26 PM PST by noutopia (Home of the brave,not the spineless.)
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To: KevinDavis
Please add me to the Space ping list..
Thanx..
66 posted on 03/20/2005 11:07:50 PM PST by Drammach (Freedom; not just a job, it's an adventure..)
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To: KevinDavis

So I says, if one can see, perchance, back through time via the Hubble telescope, the epicenter of the big bang, and if stronger resolution affords me the ability to see the other side of the epicenter of the big bang, do I see time from the beginning to the past?

Is then time travel capable to the future?

Just a barnacle on my hull through life.


67 posted on 03/20/2005 11:18:39 PM PST by Puckster
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To: KevinDavis

ping


68 posted on 03/20/2005 11:31:28 PM PST by Maynerd
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To: BearWash

Bookmark


69 posted on 03/20/2005 11:41:29 PM PST by steve86
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To: noutopia
Einstein (or somebody) explained the "space time thing" like this...

You got these twin brothers, see...
One takes off on a space ship, going to point A.. and he then will return..
The round trip, at the speed of light, will take say, 10 years..
Space twin returns to earth in what, to him, was 10 years..

Space twin finds his earth twin has aged say, 50 years, and is now 40 years older than brother space twin..

As you approach the speed of light, time itself is changed.. or how we (travellers) experience time..
The "basic" explanation is that time slows down..
I'm sure that's not accurate, but for the non-physicist layman, it's close enough..
The idea is, when at say, 60 % of light speed, it takes you 200 years to take a sip of your coffee.. to you, it's only 5 seconds.. for anyone observing you from outside of your rapidly moving craft, it's 200 years..

That's where the controversy comes in concerning faster-than-light travel...
Some (sci-fi authors especially) have postulated that travelling FTL would or could result in "time travel", actually reversing time..
Whether time would reverse within the traveller's ship, causing them to get younger is a problem... but, at any rate, travelling to another solar system, or even another galaxy would then be "theoretically" possible..
Simply "time" your round trip FTL travel to bring you back within say, a year of your departure..
All sorts of rules concerning time paradox says this is extremely dangerous, if not impossible..

More than you ever wanted to know about relativity and the space time thing.

70 posted on 03/20/2005 11:51:38 PM PST by Drammach (Freedom; not just a job, it's an adventure..)
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To: Puckster
Let's say the universe that we know is 15 billion years old..
And let's say that Earth is 10 billion light years away from the epicenter of the universe, the site of the Big Bang..

When we look at the center we see what happened 10 billion years ago..
In order to see the Big Bang actually happen, you would have to go more than 15 billion light years away from the center of the universe..
You would also have to travel faster-than-light to get there in order to see the BB happening..
Travelling at light-speed, you would always be 5 billion years too late to see the BB happen..

71 posted on 03/20/2005 11:59:39 PM PST by Drammach (Freedom; not just a job, it's an adventure..)
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To: Moral Hazard
Trans.....of your 'screen' name?

...... Moral Hazard (I'm an atheist gamer. I don't believe in God Mode.)

......Morale Hazard (I'm an relativist gambler. I absolutely do NOT communicate in Moral Mode.)?

naw,....

Sorry, I'm sure I totally missed your 'point'.....

Colossians 1:16,17

72 posted on 03/21/2005 4:41:19 AM PST by maestro
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To: Drammach

It be like flying from Atlanta to Birmingham in one of dem fast jets, dat thing is so fast, it get der before it take off.


73 posted on 03/21/2005 6:17:06 AM PST by U S Army EOD (John Kerry, the mother of all flip floppers.I)
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To: Spktyr
I was thinking a one-way trip to the galactic core

When you leave, don't forget to turn out the light.

74 posted on 03/21/2005 6:45:47 AM PST by hgro
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To: maestro
Wikipedia is our friend....

"In law and economics, moral hazard is the name given to the risk that one party to a contract can change their behavior to the detriment of the other party once the contract has been concluded."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moral_hazard

"God mode is a video gaming term that refers to invulnerability."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/God_mode
75 posted on 03/21/2005 7:24:00 AM PST by Moral Hazard (I'm an atheist gamer. I don't believe in God Mode.)
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To: Moral Hazard

He was multitalented and did more than one thing.


76 posted on 03/21/2005 9:03:27 AM PST by RightWhale (Please correct if cosmic balance requires.)
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Comment #77 Removed by Moderator

To: det dweller too

Actually, according to Einstein, gravity travels at exactly the speed of light. If ths sun were to disappear or explode right now, we wouldn't know or feel anything for a full 8 minutes.


78 posted on 03/21/2005 12:36:41 PM PST by Capitalism2003
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To: timestax

79 posted on 03/21/2005 7:53:31 PM PST by timestax
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To: RightWhale; old-ager

I am curious, how can an individual travel through time.

If you did this, you would have no where to stand, until the universe returned to it's position ftom when/where you started your time travel.


80 posted on 03/21/2005 8:13:32 PM PST by XBob
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To: Trityn; Crazieman; Capitalism2003

Well, there have been many experiments with the earth and sun. It has been proven that the earth tracts to the actual location of the sun, or about 2 degrees ahead of the apparent location that we see as the sun. I remember reading on some website a few years ago that if there were any significant lag in the planetary reaction, that the planets would spiral out of their locations. Think about it! Have some ball orbit a center point and then move the force acting on the ball so that it is pointing a few degrees off the center point. what happens to the path of the ball?


81 posted on 03/22/2005 3:37:00 AM PST by det dweller too
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To: Spktyr
I was thinking of sending them into a convenient black hole. Who said anything about installing manual controls on the ships?

Sounds a bit like the B-Arc to me.

82 posted on 03/22/2005 12:29:56 PM PST by DrDavid (Support Global Warming: Surf the Hebrides)
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To: ex-darwinut
Earth is expanding, along with the rest of the universe..
That is, in relation to the distance from the "center" of the universe, our galaxy, solar system, etc..

It's not the mass, but the space-time coordinates.

83 posted on 03/22/2005 2:09:08 PM PST by Drammach (Freedom; not just a job, it's an adventure..)
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To: KevinDavis
Never say never. Anything can be done.

How about saving Terri?

84 posted on 03/22/2005 2:10:44 PM PST by expatguy (http://laotze.blogspot.com/)
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To: XBob
If you did this, you would have no where to stand, until the universe returned to it's position ftom when/where you started your time travel.

It's travel through space-time, not just time..

Everything is in motion, so any sort of "time" travel would always have to take into account that not only time has changed, but the space-time coordinates of the place ( or point) one wishes to be in that time frame..

85 posted on 03/22/2005 2:12:44 PM PST by Drammach (Freedom; not just a job, it's an adventure..)
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To: Drammach

"t's travel through space-time, not just time..
Everything is in motion, so any sort of "time" travel would always have to take into account that not only time has changed, but the space-time coordinates of the place ( or point) one wishes to be in that time frame.."


that's the point I am making.

Time travel is impossible, because to travel in time (even one atom only), the whole universe must be moved.


86 posted on 03/22/2005 7:25:12 PM PST by XBob
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To: det dweller too

I am familiar with the works of Van Flandern and his finite speed gravity inducing orbital decay. I've not done the calculations myself nor verified the work but his arguments are compelling. Either way, Gravity Probe "B" should provide some conclusive data and it will be very interesting to see the results.


87 posted on 03/23/2005 6:27:25 PM PST by Trityn
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To: maestro

AMEN!


88 posted on 03/23/2005 11:41:44 PM PST by Quix (HAVING A FORM of GODLINESS but DENYING IT'S POWER. 2 TIM 3:5)
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To: THX 1138

It seems like every week, at least every month, we are that much closer to

THX 1138.

Under appreciated flick, imho.


89 posted on 03/23/2005 11:45:29 PM PST by Quix (HAVING A FORM of GODLINESS but DENYING IT'S POWER. 2 TIM 3:5)
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