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The link between Schiavo case and Hitler's rise
Olive Tree Ministries ^ | 3-21-2005 | Jan Markell

Posted on 03/26/2005 10:22:59 AM PST by wto8585

When Life Becomes an Inconvenience--Jan Markell Olive Tree Ministries, Inc. www.olivetreeviews.org

Semi-Weekly Review of the News - March 21, 2005

I have a built-in radar system that registers a warning when it comes to "mercy killing." My Jewish grandparents fled a section of Russia about ten years before Hitler came to power as they sensed trouble was in the wind. This heritage actually caused me to research the Holocaust and write a best-selling book about it, "Trapped in Hitler's Hell" available through my Web site or print newsletter.

In October, 1939, Hitler ordered "mercy killing" of the sick and disabled, mainly children. The sentiment was to eliminate "life unworthy of life"--kids who would become an inconvenience if they lived. The deaths would soon include adults who were also inferior, feeble, or just too much trouble.

The Nazis made decisions without diagnoses or medical records. They were a part of a barbaric system, and yet when the death camps were finally liberated, many felt that such atrocities were finally thrown on the ash heap of history. They don't understand human nature or the Bible: Only when Satan is cast into the pit will evil end. In the meantime people who stand for righteousness are doing all we can to check it.

No, America isn't Nazi Germany! Yet what is happening here makes me very uncomfortable. Terri Schiavo wants to live. Her parents want to take care of her. But Terri is an inconvenience to her husband and "the system" has favored him thus far. But this battle isn't just for Terri. It's a battle to stop America from going further down a slippery slope that disregards human life. If America's leaders, doctors, lawyers, and judges, allow her to die in the terrible "prescribed manner"--by starvation and dehydration--have we sunk to the level of barbarians?

Terrorists have gotten better treatment and a greater outcry than Terri. Two terrorists killed over 240 people in Africa in 1998. They were brought to America for trial and after seven months of court pleading, their lives were spared in spite of the fact that they had been planning to destroy us indiscriminately.

Timothy McVeigh was a co-conspirator in the Oklahoma City bombing of 1995. He was given a quick, painless, lethal injection that brought almost instant, peaceful death.

Criminals and terrorists at Abu Grhaib prison were humiliated by a few bad apples in the U.S. military and the world collectively excoriated America at the inhumane abuse of these men.

Civil liberties' activists are characteristically set into hysteria the moment an al-Qaida terrorist is rumored to have been sent to bed without dinner.

Do you get the point?

If Terri Schiavo is executed--and yes, that is a proper word--next week or next year, how much better are we than the savages we are fighting in the war on terror? If America and the world have pity and mercy on thugs and terrorists and not on a defenseless woman who has not had a proper diagnosis or treatment (thanks to her husband), I shudder to think of the repercussions that could come upon our nation.

Also keep in mind that this could come upon you some day as well if "pro-death" activists speak more loudly than "pro-life" activists. Pro-life judges cannot even pass the confirmation process anymore. In America only half the states will impose the death penalty, but strangely, the kind of "progressive thinking" that brought about the near abolition of the death penalty now champions euthanasia and abortion. The Left claims to stand up for the underdogs in life, but I sense they follow the pattern of Ezekiel 33:31: "With their mouth they show much love, but their hearts pursue their own gain."

What is characteristic of a last day's culture is culture decline which the Bible predicts. Good will be called evil and evil good (Isaiah 5:20). Evil men will be "seducers, waxing worse and worse, deceiving and being deceived" (II Timothy 3:13). But who would ever have thought that such perilous times would have come to a simple hospice room?

In our evil generation God is also moving mightily because some people are remaining "salt and light." There is still time for good to trump certain aspects of evil. The end is not yet. God sees the heart of the righteous and is merciful.

To better understand this "slippery slope," visit my Web site, www.olivetreeviews.org, then visit the category of "Culture Decline."

Awaiting His return, Jan Markell You may pass along these items or have folks sign up on the "Home" page of my Web site, www.olivetreeviews.org. We update "Current Headlines" twice a day and you can access radio programming under "Radio Archives" for the last two years. Our March-April print newsletter, "Understanding the Times," is now out and is free for one year to U.S. residents. Please remember us prayerfully and financially. Contact: Olive Tree Ministries, Box 1452, Maple Grove, MN 55311.


TOPICS: News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: cary; mercykilling; schiavo; terri; terrihysteria; terrischiavo
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Ok...this is getting scary people. History can repeat itself if this is the direction we are headed.
1 posted on 03/26/2005 10:23:02 AM PST by wto8585
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To: wto8585
Hitler breathed air and drank water too.

I thought DU was the place where all the "____ is the beginning of Nazism" threads belonged.

2 posted on 03/26/2005 10:26:39 AM PST by Darkwolf377 (When DUmmies said "Not my country" we called them traitors.)
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To: wto8585

So far today I have seen comparisons of Terri with Jesus Christ on the cross, so I shouldn't be surprised to see comparisons of her demise with the murder of 6 million Jews. Sigh....


3 posted on 03/26/2005 10:28:06 AM PST by MACVSOG68
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To: wto8585

'Thou shall not murder'

Exd 20:13

'Thou shall not murder'

Deu 5:17


Judgenfuhrer Greer: "Burn the 'b&tch'. Torture her parents. Degrade America.
Wow. With a flick of my pen I am bigger than the President and ...."


HEALTHFUL DRINKS AND WARM MEALS SINCE THE ORDER-TO-MURDER-AN-INVALID BY JUDGE GREER
Murderer-At-Will Judge Greer 35
......................... Terri Shiavo 0
.......................... Lee Malvo 26
.......................... Scott Peterson 25


  
SS-Obersturmbannfuehrer
Adolf Eichmann
 
Nazi bureaucrat
Author of the Final Solution
  
Pinellas County District
Judgenfuhrer George Greer
 
American bureaucrat
"Author" of Schiavo v. Schiavo
  
Their Common Legacy:
 
Torture, Starvation and
Death



MICHAEL SCHIAVO'S lies and contradictory testimony in easy to read format

The Rule of Terri's Case Strikes Again. -2004- Judge Greer's crimes


BREAKING: Factoid of the hour - While at FSU, [Judgenfuhrer and Murderer]Greer was a housemate of future Doors lead singer Jim Morrison


BREAKING: BUMP for DOCUMENTS TYING MS's LAYWERS TO THE HOSPICE

More info on the tangled web the Florida Judiciary has woven here

4 posted on 03/26/2005 10:28:29 AM PST by Diogenesis (Si vis pacem, para bellum)
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To: Darkwolf377
Criticism of "Beginnings of Nazism" threads is the beginnings of Nazism!

= )

5 posted on 03/26/2005 10:29:34 AM PST by Hoplite
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To: MACVSOG68

The murder of 6 million began with the murder of 1.


6 posted on 03/26/2005 10:33:06 AM PST by Critter (America, home of the whipped.)
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To: Hoplite

You're right, Hitler used to criticize Nazi threads, back in the day. Back to finishing my autobiography, "My Camper"


7 posted on 03/26/2005 10:33:40 AM PST by Darkwolf377 (When DUmmies said "Not my country" we called them traitors.)
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To: MACVSOG68

He's not comparing it to the murder of Jews, he's comparing it to the murder of thousands of disabled Germans.

It happened, and the justification offered for it does bear similiarities to this situation.

I am Jewish, half of my family was murdered in the Holocaust, and I do not consider this article on the murder of the disabled to be offensive in any way.


8 posted on 03/26/2005 10:34:56 AM PST by tomahawk (If we can't stand for life, what can we stand for?)
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To: Darkwolf377

Hitler invented the internet, but Al Gore perfected it.


9 posted on 03/26/2005 10:35:14 AM PST by mountaineer
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To: Darkwolf377

I posted it here because of the current situation of Terri.


10 posted on 03/26/2005 10:40:09 AM PST by wto8585
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To: MACVSOG68
So far today I have seen comparisons of Terri with Jesus Christ on the cross, so I shouldn't be surprised to see comparisons of her demise with the murder of 6 million Jews. Sigh....

It's going to get a lot worse. These people have become completely unhinged.

11 posted on 03/26/2005 10:41:08 AM PST by skip_intro
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To: wto8585

Saying "It can't happen here" is extremely naive. To believe it couldn't happen here is to ignore the basic facts of human nature and recent history.

It's not just the Nazis. If someone thinks 70 years ago is ancient history, we've got Rwanda and Sudan too.


12 posted on 03/26/2005 10:42:23 AM PST by Zechariah_8_13 (Courage is not simply one of the virtues, but the form of every virtue at the testing point.)
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To: skip_intro
It's going to get a lot worse. These people have become completely unhinged.

You're worse that Hitler. Terri is G-d, sent to test us.

13 posted on 03/26/2005 10:43:46 AM PST by Lazamataz (Cleverly Arranging 1's And 0's Since 11110111011...)
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To: Lazamataz
You're worse that Hitler. Terri is G-d, sent to test us.

Thanks for making my point.

14 posted on 03/26/2005 10:45:05 AM PST by skip_intro
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To: skip_intro

He's joking.


15 posted on 03/26/2005 10:47:10 AM PST by tomahawk (If we can't stand for life, what can we stand for?)
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To: tomahawk

Who can tell anymore?

My apologies to Lazamataz.


16 posted on 03/26/2005 10:48:53 AM PST by skip_intro
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To: tomahawk
He's joking.
Dear Lord, I hope so.
17 posted on 03/26/2005 10:49:22 AM PST by Clara Lou (Hillary Clinton: "We're going to take things away from you on behalf of the common good.")
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To: skip_intro

I misspoke: Terri is actually G-d's Creator, and I have come to the conclusion that you eat fetuses while they are still living, right out of the mothers womb.


18 posted on 03/26/2005 10:49:26 AM PST by Lazamataz (Cleverly Arranging 1's And 0's Since 11110111011...)
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To: tomahawk

Shush, you. I had a live one there.


19 posted on 03/26/2005 10:49:56 AM PST by Lazamataz (Cleverly Arranging 1's And 0's Since 11110111011...)
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To: wto8585

Hitlery Clintons Law: Once you stop paying taxes, you are no longer productive and if you get sick, you are a burden and therefore .....Toast. NOMANCLATURA


20 posted on 03/26/2005 10:50:29 AM PST by unkus
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To: Howlin; Constitution Day

Another winner.


21 posted on 03/26/2005 10:51:00 AM PST by Rebelbase (Accused Culture of Death member for daring to expose Terri hysteria)
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To: skip_intro
It's going to get a lot worse. These people have become completely unhinged.

That's what I'm afraid of.

22 posted on 03/26/2005 10:51:46 AM PST by .38sw
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To: wto8585
It's A 'How to Fix' the social security dilemma
23 posted on 03/26/2005 10:52:18 AM PST by joesnuffy (The generation that survived the depression and won WW2 proved poverty does not cause crime)
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To: tomahawk
It happened, and the justification offered for it does bear similiarities to this situation.

I'm not sure I see any similarities. If Judge Greer did not believe that Terri herself wanted to end her life in this manner, she would still be on feeding tubes. I doubt that Hitler made such a distinction. BTW, others on this thread are making the comparison with the holocaust.

I am Jewish, half of my family was murdered in the Holocaust, and I do not consider this article on the murder of the disabled to be offensive in any way.

The issue is not whether you personally are offended, but how the majority of Americans are interpreting these kinds of comparisons. It would appear that Terri Schiavo's life or death issue cannot stand on its own merits but must be somehow pumped up either with the death of Christ on the cross or with genocide issues. This kind of lunacy merely feeds the MSM's insatiable desire to discredit the right in any way it can.

24 posted on 03/26/2005 10:53:00 AM PST by MACVSOG68
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To: Critter

"The murder of 6 million began with the murder of 1."

And I bet everyone who killed during that reign had at some point in their lives eaten carrots too.


25 posted on 03/26/2005 10:54:28 AM PST by Rebelbase (Accused Culture of Death member for daring to expose Terri hysteria)
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To: Lazamataz

"You're worse that Hitler. Terri is G-d, sent to test us."

He was hungry, and we offered Him no food. He was thirsty, and we gave Him no drink. Who will deny Him before the cock crows thrice?


26 posted on 03/26/2005 10:54:31 AM PST by Arthur Wildfire! March (<<<< Profile page streamlined, solely devoted Schiavo research)
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To: Arthur Wildfire! March
He was hungry, and we offered Him no food. He was thirsty, and we gave Him no drink. Who will deny Him before the cock crows thrice?

Who, Hitler?

27 posted on 03/26/2005 10:55:56 AM PST by Lazamataz (Cleverly Arranging 1's And 0's Since 11110111011...)
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To: Lazamataz

Where you see the least among us, there also is He. No worries....


28 posted on 03/26/2005 10:56:49 AM PST by Arthur Wildfire! March (<<<< Profile page streamlined, solely devoted Schiavo research)
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To: wto8585
No, America isn't Nazi Germany! Yet what is happening here makes me very uncomfortable.

As it should to everyone reading this story--even "conservative" freepers hell-bent on defending the Bush brothers in the face of their obvious and craven cowardice.

Yuppie Freepers Beware: if the government cannot protect your life, it cannot protect your pocket book. If the law enforcement officials doing Judge Greer's bidding can help an innocent woman die, they can take your bank accounts with far fewer pains of conscience.

Wake up, America.
29 posted on 03/26/2005 10:57:16 AM PST by farmer18th ("The fool says in his heart there is no God.")
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To: MACVSOG68

The Nazis did kill disabled people, and Terri Schiavo is being killed. That is a similarity.

Many do believe this is not what she wanted, and that she is not in the PVS state being used as a predicate to kill her.

I agree that the Holocaust analogy could be misused, but I don't see any harm in people pointing out that the Nazis killed disabled people using justifications that are being offered now. I have read many people here and elsewhere saying that people "shouldn't live like this" which is not much different from saying people "like this shouldn't live".

My problem with this thing is that we don't know for sure what she wanted, we don't know if she is in a PVS, and I'm greatly bothered killing someone under these circumstances.

I do believe we will see more of these type killings and it's a legitimate thing to be concerned abuot.


30 posted on 03/26/2005 10:58:09 AM PST by tomahawk (If we can't stand for life, what can we stand for?)
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To: wto8585

WE are sinking into Hell...since Roe V Wade made it a 'right'
and no longer sin to kill your preborn child..

We will continue on towards Hitler and Stalin's version of Society...this is Satan's world and Satan's world system will for a time prevail until Messiah comes back to separate the sheep from the goats..

There is NO OTHER name under Heaven whereby men MUST be saved

Those that reject Christ reject God and embrace either the desire of their own evil nature or Satan's way..

Broad is the way to destruction and many go therein. Narrow is the gate to salvation...and few will find it...

Jesus Christ is the only way to salvation..this is not an intolerant view..simply the truth..

It's in His book...


31 posted on 03/26/2005 11:00:27 AM PST by joesnuffy (The generation that survived the depression and won WW2 proved poverty does not cause crime)
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To: Lazamataz

We, as a nation, are torturing someone to death. It is not clear whether she is semi-conscious or not. Who among us will defy this wicked nation's decision in various ways? We can choose to please men, or we can choose to please God. We have only one true master. Just as Thomas Jefferson wrote the foundation of the Free World, her right to live is inalienable. That's America. This is not. I hope that the Bush Family can right this wrong, or the path of this nation will flounder. FReegards....


32 posted on 03/26/2005 11:00:50 AM PST by Arthur Wildfire! March (<<<< Profile page streamlined, solely devoted Schiavo research)
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To: Rebelbase

Wow, you are a genius! Damn! We better ban carrots!


33 posted on 03/26/2005 11:01:25 AM PST by Critter (America, home of the whipped.)
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To: wto8585
Ok...this is getting scary people

Yeah, it sure is.

34 posted on 03/26/2005 11:04:27 AM PST by Howlin
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To: skip_intro

Bump.


35 posted on 03/26/2005 11:05:04 AM PST by Howlin
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To: Rebelbase

"They're here."


36 posted on 03/26/2005 11:05:57 AM PST by Howlin
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To: tomahawk
The Nazis did kill disabled people, and Terri Schiavo is being killed. That is a similarity.

And did the Nazis give their victims thousands of man-hours of legal representation by state and federal courts for years deciding whether or not the evidence of her wishes was sufficient? When we make comparisons like this we cheapen history and tell the world that Terri's plight cannot stand on its own merits.

My problem with this thing is that we don't know for sure what she wanted, we don't know if she is in a PVS, and I'm greatly bothered killing someone under these circumstances

I'm on Terri's side on this issue, but nevertheless, the courts have ruled, and unfortunately, if Terri would not have wanted this, it is done.

But it is not a religious, political, or above all, a historical issue.

37 posted on 03/26/2005 11:07:19 AM PST by MACVSOG68
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To: tomahawk
It seems that some people think that the Germans of the early twentieth century were in some way qualitatively different from us. It's as if they think they were a different species of human or something.

The average German of that time wasn't some Snidely Whiplash-type character, rolling the tip of his handlebar mustache between his fingers.

People forget how close we always are to slipping over the shallow edge that separates a humane culture from one like Nazi Germany.

The Germans that started executing the disabled, first with the consent of the families, later without, had convinced themselves that they were doing the right thing. They thought it was a merciful, good act.

This goes along with the Pope's characterization of a "disordered sense of compassion." We must always examine our motivations carefully, and maintain respect for life in all cases.

38 posted on 03/26/2005 11:07:53 AM PST by B Knotts
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To: tomahawk

The Nazis did not land from outer space one day and take over. Hitler and his ilk took advantage of the cultural disintigration that happened after WWI -- they were part of the process of cultural disintigration. Certain legal elements of the Third Reich were already in place when the Nazis took over. Then the definition of "life unworthy of life" was ever-expanded. Who is to say that there is not some Hitler-like person today who is eagerly working to undermine just and humane standards in America or many other countries? If a country adopts a culture of death this is fertile ground for the next Hitler to appear.


39 posted on 03/26/2005 11:09:25 AM PST by Wilhelm Tell
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To: wto8585

Killing the disabled is a very Nazi-like behavior. There will be more of it.


40 posted on 03/26/2005 11:09:32 AM PST by Petronski (If Reichskanzler Greer can kill Terri, who will be next?)
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To: wto8585

Amen and Amen!


41 posted on 03/26/2005 11:11:21 AM PST by afraidfortherepublic (" I tremble for my country when I reflect that God is just. " A. Lincoln)
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To: MACVSOG68
...unfortunately, if Terri would not have wanted this, it is done.

Youor words are chillingly reminiscent of Pontius Pilate.

42 posted on 03/26/2005 11:12:58 AM PST by afraidfortherepublic (" I tremble for my country when I reflect that God is just. " A. Lincoln)
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To: MACVSOG68

"This kind of lunacy merely feeds the MSM's insatiable desire to discredit the right in any way it can."

The "right" is not one single constituency, but several sub-sets.

And when a sub-set is thrust into the news, you bet the magnifying glass will be put on them.


43 posted on 03/26/2005 11:13:47 AM PST by truth_seeker
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To: afraidfortherepublic
Youor words are chillingly reminiscent of Pontius Pilate.

Great, now you may want to join the other thread where I am getting flamed for also believing that Terri Schiavo is not Jesus Christ.

44 posted on 03/26/2005 11:24:06 AM PST by MACVSOG68
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To: MACVSOG68

No, the Nazis didn't give their victims a chance to litigate, this is true.

Again, though, I don't believe anyone is saying that this equates to what the Nazis did, merely that the reasoning is similar. The "they're better off dead", "they shouldn't live" argument.

Also, although there was a legal process in this case, it was completely shoddy in that the judge clearly is not interested in her actual condition, in that he disregards competent medical opinion to the contrary without having her re-tested. A life is in the balance, and he will not allow tests. The appellate courts defer to the trial judge in part because the standard of review is so high.


45 posted on 03/26/2005 11:24:08 AM PST by tomahawk (If we can't stand for life, what can we stand for?)
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Comment #46 Removed by Moderator

To: B Knotts

Exactly. There is a similarity in the arguments being offered to justify killing Terri (who is not terminally ill) as were used to kill the disabled in Germany.


47 posted on 03/26/2005 11:25:56 AM PST by tomahawk (If we can't stand for life, what can we stand for?)
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To: Fourplay

You have made your wishes clear about your life and body and your wishes should be honored.

Your wishes should not apply to another human being, however.


48 posted on 03/26/2005 11:28:26 AM PST by tomahawk (If we can't stand for life, what can we stand for?)
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To: Fourplay

Sorry, on reading your post again, I now realize you weren't saying others should be killed in these circumstances because you wouldn't want to live. Apologies.


49 posted on 03/26/2005 11:30:39 AM PST by tomahawk (If we can't stand for life, what can we stand for?)
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To: tomahawk
Again, though, I don't believe anyone is saying that this equates to what the Nazis did, merely that the reasoning is similar. The "they're better off dead", "they shouldn't live" argument.

Unfortunately, they are linking this with Nazism, and the reasoning is not similar in the slightest.

Also, although there was a legal process in this case, it was completely shoddy in that the judge clearly is not interested in her actual condition, in that he disregards competent medical opinion to the contrary without having her re-tested.

While I have serious doubts, obviously the judges did not. There was also substantial medical opinion to the effect that Schiavo was in a PVS, and that much of the brain was no longer present. But, to me the only issue is the weight of evidence supporting Terri's desires. On this, the judge accepted the statements of, I believe, 5 witnesses. Perhaps he should have considered more. But in any case, this hardly equates to comparisons with the Third Reich.

50 posted on 03/26/2005 11:35:48 AM PST by MACVSOG68
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