Posted on 04/01/2005 12:08:23 PM PST by Wolfstar
Edited on 04/01/2005 12:11:13 PM PST by Admin Moderator. [history]
It's comments like that which don't help to have intelligent conversation. But carry on by all means.
Well, that's an amazing and wonderful story. God works in mysterious ways.
And now I must leave this thread but it's been nice chatting with you.
Did I say I reduced the Holocaust? I just kept thinking about how so many people stood by and did nothing for so long as people were systematically starved to death, and worse. I kept thinking all last week of the photos I saw in the Dachau museum of the starving victims who died in that death camp. I can't help but think that starving our fellow man is wrong. Whether it is in a death camp or in a hospice. Terri tried to say "I want to live" when they told her they were going to remove the tube. All she could utter was "I wan" And I can totally identify with that, too. My grandma had a stroke when she was my age and it totally paralyzed her entire right side. After that she couldn't really talk the rest of her life. About the only word she could say clearly was NO. She would get so frustrated when she tried to have a conversation with me, her brain damage was so extreme. But she was able to walk again, with a cane, and got around pretty well for many years after her stroke. She was never able to use her right hand again and she couldn't really talk.
I just keep being haunted by the faces of the starved victims at Dachau every time I hear about the starving of Terri.
And Dachau wasn't just jews, there were many Christians killed there, too. Including nuns. It was a real killing field. They started with killing the comatose elderly, then the comatose retarded, then the other elderly, then the rest of the retarded, then the jews and anyone who helped them including nuns and priests. If we don't watch out that CULTURE OF DEATH will creep into our world.
How does that reduce the holocaust.
She had a life to call her own. If she had therapy.
I agree Peach.
you are simply not going to get Christians to follow this lead toward "larger" issues. Jesus ordered us to treat the least of us as if it were him. We cannot rationalize some larger issue is more important than caring for Jesus. If we stop feeding Grandma we are holding food and water from Jesus. Not many Christians will want to do that.
We had hospice help at my aunt's home after she spent over a month in a hospital...cancer was eating her from the inside, she had LOST ALL DESIRE TO EAT, which REALLY is natural, and the hospice people, who rotated shifts at her home, were there to watch over her, note pain, administer morphine, and DID give her water at my cousin's insistence..they COULD NOT BEAR to think of their mom as THIRSTY (or could I)..even as the hospice worker did tell them that dehydration would help her to pass over more quickly.
The hospice worker notified us when all of her bowel sounds...intestinal sounds when quiet...I guess this is part of the dying process and death becomes fairly predictable timewise when the intestines shut down forever.
BUT MY AUNT WAS DYING BEFORE FOOD WAS NO LONGER GIVEN>>>SHE HAD BEEN REFUSING FOOD, WITH NO APPETITE, FOR OVER A MONTH! What litte bits we could get her to take...were NO WELCOME.
Terri was MURDERED. She was starved to death....and DEHYDRATED.....her insides becoming like raisens left out in the sun...slowly and torturously...even felos could not resist his excitement in speaking to her skin mottling as the body desparately tried to shunt the blood left (it was becoming thick without replenishment of fluid, as well) to the vital organs.
Yep.
IT WAS MURDER BY JUDICIAL DEGREE!
HORRIFIC!
Because Terri was a HEALTHY WOMAN!
She was brain disabled....but NOT TERMINALLY ILL!
TERRI GOT HUNGRY AND NEEDED TO EAT, EVERY SINGLE DAY....JUST LIKE ALL OF US! AND SHE GOT THRISTY EVERY DAY....JUST LIKE ALL OF US!
HOSPICE BY LAW IS ONLY SUPPOSED TO HELP THE TERMINALLY ILL PASS OVER!
IT WAS MURDER!
AND IT WAS SLOW, TORTUROUS BARBARIC MURDER.
HEINOUS FOR THE FAMILY and BREATHTAKINGLY CRUEL.
Every holocaust starts somewhere.
Bump
Are any of you people who are so easily misled by the MSM ever going to think for yourselves?
Bump for the Felos Health Clinic! PRICELESS!! But I still think Judge Greer should be included in the chamber of horrors.
The Nazi's put their mentally-ill to death via poison gas (I think just boring old carbon-monoxide) if I remember correctly. A fairly quick and not too unpleasent a death.
The AMERICAN LEGAL SYSTEM put this woman out of her "misery" through dehydration and starvation, which is also known as TORTURE. They only forgot to provide a wooden cross upon which to nail her broken body for all to see...but I guess CNN and the cable news stations fulfilled that role fairly well...
The verdict: The Nazi's, at least in their treatment of the mentally ill, were actually MORE HUMANE than the AMERICAN LEGAL SYSTEM.
Amazingly, comparing this to the Nazi's just doesn't go far enough...perhaps the Marquis de Sade would be a more apt example...
Feeding tubes should only be removed in terminal illnesses like cancer when the illness has reached the point that stomach contents are being regurgitated or back up into the lungs and esophagus. In that event, fluids and IV's should be continued and the patient should continue to be offered food by mouth.
Extraordinary means like heart and lung machines should be the only subjects of a living will and people should carefully detail their wishes.
My fervent opinions on the above issues were well developed years ago, and are totally unrelated to the Terri Schindler case.
That's wonderful!!! You made that?
Let's try NOT to get SNOOTY and tell other's what they should and shouldn't discuss, or what they should or shouldn't respond to in a posted article.
And some physicians are talking about using patients like Terri for medical experiments.
Who are the "many here" who "want the government to decide what's right for us at the end of our lives" ?
If there are "many," it shouldn't be hard to name and quote a few.
As far as I've seen, no one here wants "the government making such decisions" for persons who are terminally ill and about whom there is no dispute amongst first degree relatives.
In Terri's case, she was (a) not terminally ill and (b) there was great dispute.
And, the government was already involved in the form of the COURTS.
I also noticed the government was involved in posting POLICE forces to prevent the parents from giving a drop of water to their daughter while she was under government ORDER of starvation/dehydration.
We are not trying to reduce the Holocaust, we are trying to prevent another one.
Dr. Cranford was the principal medical witness brought in by Schiavo and Felos to support their position that Terri was PVS. Judge Greer was obviously impressed by Cranford’s résumé: Cranford travels throughout the country testifying in cases involving PVS and brain impairment. He is widely recognized by courts as an expert in these issues, and in some circles is considered “the” expert on PVS. His clinical judgment has carried the day in many cases, so it is relevant to examine the manner in which he arrived at his judgment in Terri’s case. But before that, one needs to know a little about Cranford’s background and perspective: Dr. Ronald Cranford is one of the most outspoken advocates of the “right to die” movement and of physician-assisted suicide in the U.S. today.
In published articles, including a 1997 op-ed in the Minneapolis–St. Paul Star Tribune, he has advocated the starvation of Alzheimer’s patients. He has described PVS patients as indistinguishable from other forms of animal life. He has said that PVS patients and others with brain impairment lack personhood and should have no constitutional rights. Perusing the case literature and articles surrounding the “right to die” and PVS, one will see Dr. Cranford’s name surface again and again. In almost every case, he is the one claiming PVS, and advocating the cessation of nutrition and hydration.
You might be interested in the following article:
From Small Beginnings: The Road to Genocide
If you doubt the slippery slope is there, just look at the abortion issue.
Putting in a feeding tube is a medical procedure. You would force people to undergo a medical procedure against their will?
And those Nazi graphics are charming.
/sarcasm
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