Skip to comments.EU to slap extra 15% duty on range of US goods
Posted on 04/01/2005 4:02:14 PM PST by nextthunder
click here to read article
Uhmm, have you looked at the EU/US trade imbalance ? It's about 4 to 1 in the EU's favor. Let the Arabs prop up their socialism, Im gettin tired of it.
So you have a problem with us buying BMW's? And you want to take your frustration out on somebody working at Caterpillar? Doesn't sound like much of a plan.
Screw the EU, China is where it's at. The EU will implode on itself in the next 10 years. We are headed in the same direction.
In November, the WTO gave Canada and the other co-complainants the authority to retaliate. The other countries involved include Mexico, Japan, India and Brazil.
Unless Congress repeals the law, the case may become the most damaging ever at the WTO when the U.S. begins distributing tariffs collected on Canadian lumber, worth $4 billion a year. Japan, the economy most affected by the Byrd Amendment, has the right to impose customs duties worth 125 billion yen ($116 million), the biggest sanctions awarded to Japan in a dispute.
President George W. Bush called for a repeal of the Byrd Amendment in his budget proposal to Congress on Feb. 7, saying that ending the law could save the U.S. Treasury $1.6 billion in the next fiscal year.
So, unless the Byrd amendment is repealed, many nations, not just the EU, will be retaliating. It would be prudent not to irritate the Japanese, with their vast holdings of US Treasuries - which they can dump any time they please. The posted article states that President Bush is in favor of repeal. Sounds like prompt action is needed - unless he wants to get into a trade war against the whole world --- at the conclusion of which we are likely to be even more a beggar nation than we are now - and finally shocked into seeing it.
Is repeal legislation before Congress now?
Trade war!!! Bring it on!
I already have 3 coffee machines, ain't got any more use for any more euro junk!
"But our economy is one of the strongest in Europe. Mainly due to free market initiatives and a pro-inward investment policies. "
And those are probably initiatives from within the Irish Republic. Which is good! The bureaucrats in Brussels though I don't trust, my perception from this side of the pond is that they are a bit "out of touch".
As far as the objecting to the EU in its present bloated bureaucrat form being a crime, that I believe is in closer proximity to Belgium, France, what have you. My view that the EU will have major problems is not on "nationalist" grounds (since I'm an outsider in the U.S.A.), but more economic grounds - hence my screen name.
Barring over-regualation, Ireland and the Eastern European member nations should do quite well. Its up to Germany, France, Belgium, and the rest of "Old Europe" whether or not they get left behind. Germany during the last years of Helmut Kohl's administration almost had the opportunity to kick start their economy if the upper legislative house passed a major tax cut and spending reduction almost on the scale that Reagan pursued.
Any professional economist will tell you that if the EU puts a 15% tariff on US goods, it has the same exact effect as if the US put a 15% tariff on EU goods.
I'm not sure you knew that economics backs you up, but it does!
The basic problem is that the WTO does not appear to be a neutral, objective organization. Almost every time it lays down a judgment, the U.S. seems to get the short end of the stick.
We put up with that sort of unbalanced trade agreements for decades, but we can no longer afford to do so. Indeed it was foolish of us ever to agree to it, because it established unfair practices and bad habits.
Hey Europe, remember what Hawley-Smoot did to the American economy....
Hold it a second... you mean, these Bozos are threatening us with a tariff that could reach $28 Million??. Oh, man, let me check the petty cash drawer...
The neo-cons told us GATT and WTO would create an economic utopia, not a world where trade-wars are the norm.
Remember that little nutty guy from Texas, Ross WhatsHisName....who WARNED US OF THE "GIANT SUCKING SOUND"...well if he had been elected President, we would not be having the trade wars now....and for the first time, this country would have been RUN LIKE A BUSINESS, certainly moreso than it is now. Presently, all we are is the money-source and dumping ground for the world...and the trade deficit proves it.
Yes, when considered as part of all our international trade it is small. But it is targeted at very specific products which means it has a very large impact on those specific industries making those products.
The industry I work in has been significantly impacted by this.
The Byrd amendment, while it's intent was good, was not put together with much foresight (under Clinton) IMHO and is perceived as a subsidy by the WTO. They apparently had no issue with the fines for dumping but they felt that giving the money collected as fines to those companies affected was a subsidy. If the money went to the communities or to the workers it may have been alright.
I was under the impression that the US had gone back to the drawing board to come up with something that achieved the same results but would not be perceived as a subsidy. Apparently that did not happen. This is not good.
A good overview of the issue can be found here
My understanding is that the Senate will not repeal it. They need to redirect the money collected from the fines away from the companies to some other entity to get the WTO to approve it. A compromise bill was put up by Olympia Snowe but has little or no support.
Well would you care to explain this contradiction then? I mean the FT's promised utopia in trade and economics yet it has not appeared to have played out that way. Oil's closer to $60 a barrel and has plenty of upside left. This is because of a cartel. Isn't the whole idea of a cartel against free trade? If it is, why doesn't the US Govt. take OPEC to the WTO? Hmmmm??? Oil at $50 a barrel is not good for the economy yet there appears to be no free-trade mechanism at work to correct the power of the cartel. Sign me confused at trying to figure out all the promises that were made in the '90s. When will that uptopia they promised get here? Or is it here and no one knows it?
No. And we don't export anything either.
U.S. exports $714.5 billion f.o.b. (2003 est.) CIA World Fact Book
Japan exports $447.1 billion f.o.b. (2003 est.) CIA World Fact Book
Germany exports $696.9 billion f.o.b. (2003 est.) CIA World Fact Book
China exports $436.1 billion f.o.b. (2003 est.) CIA World Fact Book
Hmmmm, imagine my surprise. Not only do we still make and export stuff, we're the largest exporter in the world.
Ahh Philip, you miss the point NAFTA and GATT are not treaties, they are "agreements" you see if you call it an agreement you don't have to have a supermajority, which would have been nigh onto impossible to get. I did learn something from the Klintoons.
>> Ahh Philip, you miss the point NAFTA and GATT are not treaties, they are "agreements" you see if you call it an agreement you don't have to have a supermajority, which would have been nigh onto impossible to get.
Unbelievable! I thought I was the only one outside of government who understood that point. Maybe there is hope for our nation after all. God Bless!
whether you think there was "authority" to sign the agreements, the president signed and he certainly has authority that the other countries rely on
most of those limits are company specific and are disappearing. There are almost no limits on foreign purchases of Canadian companies now.
Quote: China makes comsumer crap. Ask any engineer what they would do if trade with the EU in for instance machine tools were to be halted. Chaos
China just bought one of the premier and oldest machine tools company in Germany and are on a worldwide hunt to buy many more.
Nice try though. Just put up a bunch of figures! Tell me, how much of those numbers is cars and durable goods being exported? Hmmmmm????? Didn't think so.
I saw a true non BS chart of our exports from 2000- to 2004. Yes exports are up slightly since 2000. However they are up in 2 main areas which saved the day, agriculture (mostly lower paying jobs) and pharmecuticals.
Almost every other sector was down including computers, telecommuniactions, Hi-tech machine tools etc Basically alot of the higher paying manufacturing jobs.
There were some other manufactured goods that were up but for the most part they were down as a averge in this category.
But this is Free Trade, so is this the first Free Trade War ?
"Canada signed the U.S.-Canada Softwood Lumber Agreement, which limited exports to the United States from British Columbia, Alberta, Quebec and Ontario..."
" the agreement has been hard to enforce. Denny Scott, assistant director of the Portland-headquartered Western Council of Industrial Workers, a division of the Carpenters Union, said Canadian lumber companies have circumvented the agreement by calling lumber something else, such as "truss parts" or "pre-manufactured studs for electrical conduits." "They would put a notch in them and call them 'rafters,'" Scott said."
Gee, Neb, why don't you tell me how much is cars and durable goods. And then tell me why cars and durable goods, whether a large or small number, would change the fact that we're the largest exporter in the world.
And please, just put up a bunch of figures. With links, if you don't mind. Try not to make numbers up like your buddy superiorslots.
But will you have coffee?
Think about it...
I hold stock in at least 3 canroys, BPT, PVX, and PWI. They each claim that if their total non-Canadian stock ownership percentage goes above 48%, that they will sell your foreign stock shares for you to a Canadian buyer, with no choice for you as a U.S. citizen. Otherwise, they lose their rights to being incorporated as Canadian firms.
If that's changed, then it has been recent.
Tell me, you don't know? Shouldn't you try to gather some facts before forming an opinion? I can direct you to the numbers if you are truly interested, which I doubt.
I asked you to defend your statitics and you failed. Sorry, but that means you are just interested in truely defending your argument. Move on young man and bother someone else.
See rude, I provided statistics that are pretty straight forward. The United States is the largest exporter in the world. Nebbie can't refute it so he throws in a question about cars. Are car exports good or bad? He doesn't say. He offers no statistics of his own so I don't know why he even bothers to post a response.
Just over two-thirds of all our exports are durable goods and over 40 percent are capital goods.
The following table shows the figures in real terms.
|Real Annual Exports|
|Exports of goods and services||Exports of goods||Durable industrial goods||Capital goods, except automotive||Automotive vehicles, engines, and parts||Durable consumer goods||All durables|
|Source: Bureau of Economic Analysis|
|Exorts of Durables As A Percentage of All Exports|
|All Durables / All Goods||Durable industrial goods / All goods||Capital goods, except automotive / All goods||Automotive vehicles, engines, and parts / All goods||Durable consumer goods / All goods|
|Source: Bureau of Economic Analysis|
The proper response is to enforce the exact same tariffs against their goods. That is only fair!
May I ask where? Maybe you were posting under another name?
Thank you for posting those numbers.
This all begs the question though. If our trade figures have dramatically increased, where are the jobs? Where is the DOW 13,000? Where is the staggering GDP numbers? Why do we constantly read of our manufacturing industries laying off people and we hardly ever read of hirings?
I suspect that there is more to these numbers than meets the eye. Example, many textile products are actually made in Mexico or the Caribbean and when they come across the border some cosmetic changes are made to these products thuse allowing the manufacturer to put the lable "Made in USA" on the tag. Also, many raw materials are exported to third world nations like China or Japan, are converted into consumer products and sent to the US.
There are more to these numbers then just what you posted.
U.S. goods exports increased by 13 percent in 2004, as compared to the 5 percent increase in the preceding year (table 1) [portion posted below]. Manufacturing exports, which account for 87 percent of total goods exports, were up 13 percent, while agriculture exports, which account for 8 percent of total goods exports, were up by 4 percent. High technology exports, a subset of manufacturing exports, accounted for 25 percent of total goods exports and were up 12 percent in 2004. U.S. goods exports increased for every major end-use category in 2004, with the largest increase in the industrial supplies and materials category, up 17 percent.Percentage increase in goods exports 1994-2004*
Since 1994, U.S. goods exports are up 60 percent. Manufacturing exports increased 64 percent, while high technology exports increased 67 percent, and agriculture exports increased 39 percent. Exports of consumer goods have risen by 70 percent, while industrial supplies and materials and capital goods have increased by more than 60 percent. Of the $304 billion increase in goods exports since 1994, capital goods accounted for 42 percent of the increase, industrial supplies and materials accounted for 27 percent, and consumer goods accounted for 14 percent.
Total exports by category* (in billions of dollars)
Industrial supplies and materials: 202.0
Capital goods, except autos: 330.6
Autos and auto parts: 87.8
*Annualized based on January-November 2004 data.
Even under the most restrictive definition of "durable goods" that I can imagine, figure that we export between $400 and $500 billion worth of "cars and durable goods" per year. Does that answer your question in reply #72? Let me know if you come-up with any "statistics" that suggest otherwise.
Source: 2005 Trade Policy Agenda and 2004 Annual Report, Annex I: U.S. Trade in 2003.
Textiles are not a durable good, and the U.S. does not determine whether a product is manufactured here according to what someone claims on a label.
I doubt it. The EU is a big enough market that they're basically forcing everybody to do RoHS. Component manufacturers aren't gonna keep two different production processes going (leaded vs. unleaded!). And some states here like Cali and Maine are in the process of implementing similar protocols, so it'll likely happen here in the States too before long. So it's likely to be a worldwide thing.
IIRC, telecoms and mil-spec components are exempt, since it would prove too "disruptive" to change them over to the RoHS standard. Hmm.......
Further elaboration is needed. If 50% of the cost of a product is done in the US then it can claim the "Made in the USA" lable. Belive me, there are many trick and importers engage in to earn that lable, when in fact the vast majority of the work is done outside of the USA.
That is the part I don't understand. What should we do with the duties we have collected in anti-dumping disputes ? It only makes sense to give it to the injured U. S. firm. It seems to me that we are only making the injured party whole again.
>> whether you think there was "authority" to sign the agreements, the president signed and he certainly has authority that the other countries rely on
You really don't get it, do you? The President has been given authority by the people to ignore unconstitutional legislation, but not to enforce it. BTW, are you a socialist?
Many goods which are really imports are put into the catagory of exports. Example, we export the cotton to Mexico and the shirts/pants, etc. are made from that cotton. The apparels are then exported to the United States. The problem is that since these goods have some final assmbly here in the US it never went down as a import from Mexico in the first place.
What does the import or export of cotton and apparel have to do with US exports of durable goods?
The EU can kiss my wookie! If they think their stupid little sanctions will hurt us they have not seen nothing yet. If they go through with lifting the arms embargo against China, our sanctions will hit them and especially their military so hard that they will WISH they went back to 10% unemployment!
Screw the Peoples Republic of EU! They want to side with China then they do not deserve any submission on our part.
The EU subisizes AirBusted and I aint seen the WTO punish them. I call it anti-american bias.
i am anything but a socialist. i'm strictly a free enterpriser and a free trader. and i get appalled when people rely on their governments to put in arbitrary tariffs and restrictions, to protect them when they are fundamentally uncompetitive.