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Mammoth's remains found at homes' construction site(12Ft Fossil far too ancient for carbon dating)
Michael Owen Baker ^ | April 10, 2005 | Michael Owen Baker

Posted on 04/11/2005 11:51:17 PM PDT by nickcarraway

Fossil that stood 12 feet tall is far too ancient for carbon dating

MOORPARK, CALIF. - The remarkably well-preserved remnants of an estimated half-million-year-old mammoth — including both tusks — were discovered at a new housing development in Southern California.

An onsite paleontologist found the remains, which include 50 percent to 70 percent of the Ice Age creature, as crews cleared away hillsides to prepare for building, Mayor Pro Tem Clint Harper said.

Paleontologist Mark Roeder estimated the mammoth was about 12 feet tall, Harper said.

Roeder believed it was not a pygmy or imperial mammoth, but he had not yet determined its exact type, Harper said.

"It's considered a very significant find, and it's a very complete fossil. It's unusual because it was found all the way down near the bedrock," Harper said.

"We asked if carbon dating could be used and they said no way, it's too old," he added.

Harper said the first bones were spotted several days ago and a special crew was called in after Roeder found more remnants, including the 6- and 7-foot-long tusks.

"They've been encased in plaster and burlap and removed from the site," Harper said.

Moorpark in Ventura County is about 30 miles west-northwest of downtown Los Angeles.

"The Moorpark mammoth, that's what we'll call it," Harper said.

Other Ice Age creatures have been found in recent years around Southern California, including a mastodon in Simi Valley, a mammoth in Oceanside and a pygmy mammoth on the Channel Islands.


TOPICS: Culture/Society; Extended News; Foreign Affairs; Miscellaneous; News/Current Events; US: California
KEYWORDS: archaeology; california; fossils; ggg; godsgravesglyphs; history; mammoth; moorpark

Dave Alexander, a field technician for Paleo Environmental Associates, uses a hammer and chisel Thursday to chip around the fossilized pelvis bone of a mammoth in Moorpark, Calif.

1 posted on 04/11/2005 11:51:18 PM PDT by nickcarraway
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To: nickcarraway

They must have had to dig down at least a mile into the earth to find something 500,000 years old. You know, all that sedidment and dust and volcanic ash.


2 posted on 04/12/2005 12:09:39 AM PDT by taxesareforever
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To: taxesareforever

Not to mention the acretion of cosmic dust.


3 posted on 04/12/2005 12:17:56 AM PDT by carumba
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To: nickcarraway
"We asked if carbon dating could be used and they said no way, it's too old," he added.

Say WHAT?

A mammoth?

Sorry, but that's just nuts. There is no way a mammoth coule be "too old" for carbon dating.

4 posted on 04/12/2005 12:26:28 AM PDT by John Valentine
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To: nickcarraway

The creationist elephants are already claiming that this couldn't have been an ancestor of theirs.


5 posted on 04/12/2005 12:29:30 AM PDT by WestVirginiaRebel (Carnac: A siren, a baby and a liberal. Answer: Name three things that whine.)
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To: WestVirginiaRebel

Get over it already...


6 posted on 04/12/2005 12:51:59 AM PDT by one of His mysterious ways
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To: WestVirginiaRebel
The creationist elephants

LOL!

elefonts or exstink dinozoors? LOL!

I had to review carbon-14 dating myself, as I think I've temporarily exceeded my cranial storage and/or retrieval capacity , and am leaking like a SR-71 at sea level.

You probably don't need the ammo, but here's a link that might be, er, helpful to this thread How Carbon-14 Dating Works

7 posted on 04/12/2005 1:28:48 AM PDT by benjaminjjones
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To: benjaminjjones

The discovery is going to kill the contractor's schedule and budget.


8 posted on 04/12/2005 1:43:38 AM PDT by caltaxed
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To: caltaxed
The discovery is going to kill the contractor's schedule and budget.

Oddly enough, that's always my first thought when these things happen.

My first real jobs were in AE firms to pay my way through college, drafter, designer, plumbing, HVAC, EE.

I was in the AE engineering/design business for a while and know that the financing/build/occupancy cycle is always a critical part of the owner/engineer/builder triad.

I've also got a family member who's a pretty good GC.

A businessman might assume that the local authorities would provide for this kind of public domain intervention with compensation from state funds, but liberal environmental whacko's just aren't based in reality.

9 posted on 04/12/2005 2:27:44 AM PDT by benjaminjjones
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To: John Valentine
Sorry, but that's just nuts. There is no way a mammoth coule be "too old" for carbon dating.

And why not?!? Evidently this specimen is about 500,000 years old, based on stratigraphy, I assume. C-14 goes back about 50,000 years at most...most reliably under 30,000 years ago.

10 posted on 04/12/2005 3:38:22 AM PDT by Gondring (Pretend you don't know me...I'm in the WPPFF.)
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To: taxesareforever
They must have had to dig down at least a mile into the earth to find something 500,000 years old. You know, all that sedidment and dust and volcanic ash.

LOL!

11 posted on 04/12/2005 3:39:46 AM PDT by Gondring (Pretend you don't know me...I'm in the WPPFF.)
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To: nickcarraway

so much for that housing tract.......


12 posted on 04/12/2005 3:54:58 AM PDT by Route101
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To: John Valentine

I thought all the carbon data analysis' were debunked recently. I'll look for the article. Obviously no scientist on my part.


13 posted on 04/12/2005 4:10:32 AM PDT by poobear
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To: Gondring
Evidently this specimen is about 500,000 years old, based on stratigraphy, I assume.

Yep.

"Lindsey said the bones were in the Saugus Formation, a soil layer between 400,000 and 1.8 million years old."
A Mammoth Find in Moorpark
14 posted on 04/12/2005 4:20:49 AM PDT by dread78645 (Sarcasm tags are for wusses.)
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To: Gondring

I think those wacky scientists should just go ahead and carbon date it anyway! Why not break a few rules. You only live once. (Besides, I'd like to know the results.)


15 posted on 04/12/2005 4:34:43 AM PDT by keats5
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To: nickcarraway

FUCRE ping. Fouled Up California Real Estate.


16 posted on 04/12/2005 5:24:26 AM PDT by Graymatter (Never buy CA real estate...never buy CA real estate...never buy CA real estate.)
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To: Gondring

There is nothing in the article as posted or in the source to indicate that it these remains are of such an age. I'm not even sure if 500,000 years makes any sense for mammoth remains.

Mammoth remains are usually found in recent landslides. Stratigraphy doesn't make sense either, for a a 500,000 year time window. That is too recent.


17 posted on 04/12/2005 5:36:46 AM PDT by John Valentine
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To: benjaminjjones
am leaking like a SR-71 at sea level

Correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't it the frictional heat (or lack thereof) that caused the Blackbird to leak. Not altitude.

Perhaps this is another example of your CSS (Cerebral Sieve Syndrom)?
;-)

18 posted on 04/12/2005 6:15:27 AM PDT by bikepacker67 (If Humans are Animals, why isn't PETA protesting the torture of Terri?)
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To: nickcarraway
An onsite paleontologist found the remains...

Where else, besides Kalifornia, would one be required to have an onsite paleontologist on one's construction site? Or did this paleontologist just happen to be passing by when the remains were unearthed?

19 posted on 04/12/2005 6:18:29 AM PDT by Bloody Sam Roberts (Remember that great love and great achievements involve great risk)
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Comment #20 Removed by Moderator

To: bikepacker67
Correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't it the frictional heat (or lack thereof) that caused the Blackbird to leak. Not altitude.

It was the frictional heat that caused the parts of the fuselage to expand and STOP it from leaking. To do otherwise would have caused the bird to crumple like an empty beer can when it reached operating speed at nominal operating altitude.

So technically, 'benjaminjjones' is correct for it would be impossible for the SR-71 to reach the appropriate speed at sea level.

21 posted on 04/12/2005 6:25:42 AM PDT by Bloody Sam Roberts (Remember that great love and great achievements involve great risk)
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To: Bloody Sam Roberts
It was the frictional heat that caused the parts of the fuselage to expand and STOP it from leaking.

Yes I know. Which is why I said lack thereof.

;-)

22 posted on 04/12/2005 7:11:33 AM PDT by bikepacker67 (If Humans are Animals, why isn't PETA protesting the torture of Terri?)
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To: Bloody Sam Roberts

Most places require on-site archaeologists, not paleontologists, but some do.


23 posted on 04/12/2005 1:47:28 PM PDT by Gondring (Pretend you don't know me...I'm in the WPPFF.)
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To: bikepacker67
but wasn't it the frictional heat (or lack thereof) that caused the Blackbird to leak

As I understand it, yes.

I could have said "sitting on a runway and leaking because it hadn't heated up due to the air friction at Mach 3.2, which sealed it's purposely built loose components", but for sake of brevity, I settled for "sea level", knowing that it was a 85,000+ ceiling aircraft.

To Monday morning quarterback myself, I should have said "tarmac" but the word escaped me when I was posting at 4:30am.

I stand corrected however.

24 posted on 04/12/2005 4:14:59 PM PDT by benjaminjjones
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To: WestVirginiaRebel

haha and the evolution elephants are claiming it is a distant cousin!!


25 posted on 04/12/2005 4:17:59 PM PDT by winodog (We need to pull the fedgov.con's feeding tube)
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To: John Valentine

The article says 1/2 mya.

Not sure I understand your stratigraphy comment. Bottom line is that the time is fine.


26 posted on 04/12/2005 4:59:02 PM PDT by Gondring (Pretend you don't know me...I'm in the WPPFF.)
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To: PoorMuttly

MUTTLY...Muttly, what do you know about these bones in the yard?


27 posted on 04/12/2005 5:01:07 PM PDT by Covenantor
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To: Covenantor

..bu...but...they were like that when I got there !

Me find lots and lots of these dinosaur and mammoth and flying saucer thingies during my excavations. They are too crunchy to easily eat (unlike Orcs, which taste yummy), so Muttly leaves them for later.


28 posted on 04/16/2005 1:54:21 PM PDT by PoorMuttly ("Out of the Bat-Cave and through the woods, to PoorMuttly's house we go"-Shakespeare, me pretty sure)
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Just adding this to the GGG catalog, not sending a general distribution.

To all -- please ping me to other topics which are appropriate for the GGG list. Thanks.
Please FREEPMAIL me if you want on or off the
Gods, Graves, Glyphs PING list or GGG weekly digest
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29 posted on 06/16/2007 1:39:50 PM PDT by SunkenCiv (Time heals all wounds, particularly when they're not yours. Profile updated June 15, 2007.)
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