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Fixing immigration fairly
The Boston Globe ^ | April 12, 2005 | Ali Noorani

Posted on 04/12/2005 4:05:42 AM PDT by Boston Blackie

Invoking symbols ranging from the Revolutionary War to Martin Luther King Jr., armed vigilantes are patrolling a segment of the Arizona-Mexico border and taking the enforcement of immigration law into their own hands. While they claim only to offer support to the Border Patrol, the Mexican government is on edge, human rights activists have flooded the area, and President Bush has distanced himself from the effort.

(Excerpt) Read more at boston.com ...


TOPICS: Editorial
KEYWORDS: aliens
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To: Ben Ficklin
The immigration crowd has succeded.

If this is the case, then they owe you (and a handful of others) their undying thanks.

Without the baiting and provocations of a few of you 90% of the illegal immigration threads would have sputtered out after 25 or so posts.

141 posted on 04/12/2005 12:39:32 PM PDT by skeeter ("What's to talk about? It's illegal." S Bono)
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To: spodefly

Tortured? I added up the numbers.


142 posted on 04/12/2005 12:39:34 PM PDT by Ben Ficklin
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To: antisocial; Ben Ficklin
Composite Opinion
Seal and militarize the borders 49.3% 2,882
Beef up and enforce existing law 35.3% 2,064
Some form of guest worker program 10.5% 614
Other 3.0% 174
Undecided/Pass 1.9% 113
100.0% 5,847

143 posted on 04/12/2005 12:41:23 PM PDT by spodefly (This is my tag line. There are many like it, but this one is mine.)
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To: R. Scott
Exploitation? We have many guest workers in this country and essentially none are exploited.

It is the illegals who get exploited.

144 posted on 04/12/2005 12:43:20 PM PDT by Ben Ficklin
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To: R. Scott

Nonsense.

Remove the "workers" physically and make them stand in the same line other immigrants do.

Put some employers in jail and watch the "exploitation" dissappear.


145 posted on 04/12/2005 12:45:11 PM PDT by freedumb2003 (First you get the sugar, then you get the power, then you get the women (HJ Simpson))
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To: Ben Ficklin
As it becomes tilted, its value as a conservative news index lessens and the lurkers leave.

Most of the posters willfully bailing are Open Border advocates whom are decidedly on the left in the republican party. This development only makes FR More not less conservative.

FR played a major role in the impeachment. Since then, many have tried to harness that to promote their agenda. They all failed.

Back then, FR was much more conservative. The RINO contingent, though present, was small and not very vocal. Ever since that time this forum has seen a flood of "Party over Country" types that have taken FR way to the left.

You will also recall that during Clinton's impeachment Conservative Activism on FR was at its greatest height. I wonder what happened?

146 posted on 04/12/2005 12:46:14 PM PDT by WRhine (Is anything Treasonous these days?)
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To: Ben Ficklin
Tortured? I added up the numbers.

Yes and 80.2% of the respondents want ALL Illegal Aliens to go back to Mexico under any proposed guest worker program or want no guest worker program at all.

Again: This doesn’t play well towards your CAL position of open borders does it?

147 posted on 04/12/2005 12:54:03 PM PDT by WRhine (Is anything Treasonous these days?)
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To: WRhine; skeeter
A Mexico controlled American Bananna Republic is not any kind of reality the American People want.

Son, what you want and what you get are two entirely different things. When millions of us Californians voted in favor of Prop 187 back in the early 90s, we really thought we had some control over our future. My how reality has a way of b!tch slapping you over the head.

Keeping excercising your 1st ammendment rights; the smart money is already many, many moves ahead of you. But just for laughs, here's what's going down:

Fact: the Latinization of the US cannot be stopped
Fact: the US is already following the pattern of every other two-tier society in Latin America
Fact: every society/culture throughout history has failed ( and it always comes from within) - the US is no different

148 posted on 04/12/2005 12:56:26 PM PDT by lemura
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To: Ben Ficklin
As it becomes tilted, its value as a conservative news index lessens and the lurkers leave.


149 posted on 04/12/2005 12:58:53 PM PDT by spodefly (This is my tag line. There are many like it, but this one is mine.)
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To: spodefly
Does your poll mean that the other poll doesn't exist. BTW, I referenced the poll among freepers, you are using the composite poll that allows individuals to vote more than once.

Even your poll indicates that there is no overwhelming majority at FR advocating sealing the border. And whats worse, FR is a gathering place for immigration zealots and you still, can only get half the votes in the composite poll.

Ignore the percentages, these are not big numbers.

150 posted on 04/12/2005 1:01:14 PM PDT by Ben Ficklin
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To: WRhine
Most of the posters willfully bailing are Open Border advocates whom are decidedly on the left in the republican party ... this forum has seen a flood of "Party over Country" types that have taken FR way to the left.

BUMP

151 posted on 04/12/2005 1:03:32 PM PDT by spodefly (This is my tag line. There are many like it, but this one is mine.)
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To: spodefly
Do you really attach credibility to Alexus?

According to the goofballs at Liberty Post, Alexes shows them to be out-doing FR?

Do you know about Alexes and cookies?

152 posted on 04/12/2005 1:05:57 PM PDT by Ben Ficklin
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To: Ben Ficklin
You can spin til you are dizzy.

I not attempting to *spin* anything. (or the FReeper polls)

Given the option between mass deportations and enrolling the illegals, the vast majority will choose the guest worker program.

Perhaps you have a link to this "vast majority" you claim ???

It sure doesn't seem to be FReepers or our Lurkers........

http://www.freerepublic.com/perl/poll?poll=79;results=1

Free Republic Opinion Poll: Which of the following is the best way to solve the illegal immigration problem?

Composite Opinion

Seal and militarize the borders 49.3% 2,882

Beef up and enforce existing law 35.3% 2,064

Some form of guest worker program 10.5% 614

Other 3.0% 174

Undecided/Pass 1.9% 113

100.0% 5,847

153 posted on 04/12/2005 1:08:20 PM PDT by txdoda ("Navy Brat")
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To: WRhine
Thats not to smart. Spend all that money to deport them, interupt the flow of the economy, and then let them right back in.

That's a bullet hole in the foot.

154 posted on 04/12/2005 1:09:27 PM PDT by Ben Ficklin
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To: txdoda

The poll on guest worker programs has just as much credibility.


155 posted on 04/12/2005 1:12:56 PM PDT by Ben Ficklin
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To: Ben Ficklin
Does your poll mean that the other poll doesn't exist.

It's not my poll, it is an FR poll, and no, both polls exist. One is more clearly delineated than the other, but both show that FR is not in favor of allowing illegal immigrants to stay in this country, guest worker program or no guest worker program.

...the composite poll that allows individuals to vote more than once.

Wrong. Members can vote once, and their vote is registered with their log-in. Non-members can vote once as they are cookied during voting. In that regard the poll is as accurate as any web poll.

Even your poll indicates that there is no overwhelming majority at FR advocating sealing the border.

That is exactly right ... and yet you and your small band of thread disruptors use that "militarize the borders/machinegun the migrants" strawman on just about every thread. Same with the assertion that anyone against illegal immigration is going to vote for Hillary ... no one has said it, but it is a convenient strawman and baiting tool for several posters you are intimately familiar with.

Ignore the percentages, these are not big numbers.

Given the skill you have shown on this thread in reading polls and graphs, I'll be ignoring more than the percentages.

156 posted on 04/12/2005 1:16:27 PM PDT by spodefly (This is my tag line. There are many like it, but this one is mine.)
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To: WRhine

Precisely my point. The immigration crowd has no interest in any other issue. They could care less about judges.


157 posted on 04/12/2005 1:16:47 PM PDT by Ben Ficklin
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To: Ben Ficklin

I referenced the poll among freepers, you are using the composite poll that allows individuals to vote more than once. >>>>>>>


LOL......OK, here is the *secure* results from the members only.

http://www.freerepublic.com/perl/poll?poll=79;results=1

Seal and militarize the borders 45.9% 1,803

Beef up and enforce existing law 37.8% 1,484

****Some form of guest worker program 10.8% 423****

Other 3.3% 131

Undecided/Pass 2.2% 88

100.0% 3,929


158 posted on 04/12/2005 1:19:33 PM PDT by txdoda ("Navy Brat")
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To: spodefly
Let me clarify myself when I said these are not big numbers. The number of people participating in these polls are pretty small. These are not significant numbers. There are more people that live on my county road.

This is not a scientific poll. It has no basis in society.

You feed on your feedback.

159 posted on 04/12/2005 1:24:23 PM PDT by Ben Ficklin
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To: Ben Ficklin
I am a CTO for a web-based software company, so I know a little about it. I am not very familiar with the "goofballs at Liberty Post", however.

There are several ways to measure a web sites traffic.

Page views is one that people have used that is notoriously meaningless.

For example, FR used to limit the number of posts viewable on any particular thread to 20. Now it is a selectable preference, and a viewer can have as many as 100 posts viewable on a given thread. That means that the 'page views' for a given thread are potentially one-fifth of what they used to be ... essentially a meaningless statistic that give no indication as to numbers of viewers.

Hits is another meaningless statistic. I could build a web page with a million little tiny graphics on it, and one person could view that page and I would get a million "hits". Meaningless.

The 'Reach' category on the other hand, shows the number of individual computers accessing a site, and is the best indication available as to total viewership.

160 posted on 04/12/2005 1:25:38 PM PDT by spodefly (This is my tag line. There are many like it, but this one is mine.)
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