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Fixing immigration fairly
The Boston Globe ^ | April 12, 2005 | Ali Noorani

Posted on 04/12/2005 4:05:42 AM PDT by Boston Blackie

Invoking symbols ranging from the Revolutionary War to Martin Luther King Jr., armed vigilantes are patrolling a segment of the Arizona-Mexico border and taking the enforcement of immigration law into their own hands. While they claim only to offer support to the Border Patrol, the Mexican government is on edge, human rights activists have flooded the area, and President Bush has distanced himself from the effort.

(Excerpt) Read more at boston.com ...


TOPICS: Editorial
KEYWORDS: aliens
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To: harrowup
Whatever that means it makes more sense than anything else coming out of the Buchanalite wing of the Republican Party.

Better than what is coming from the Karl Marx wing of the ACLU and Democrat Party to which you belong.

201 posted on 04/12/2005 3:01:31 PM PDT by Spiff (Don't believe everything you think.)
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To: Czar
...as bigoted racists those ... who believe in protected ... the preservation of American culture, language and customs.

And this is where the bigotry charge gets its running charge, every time you use it.

There isn't a single conservative to be found in your grimy little pack.

It is fairly obvious who runs in packs around here.

202 posted on 04/12/2005 3:03:35 PM PDT by harrowup (Just naturally perfect and humble of course)
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To: lemura
Fact: the 10m illegals already here will NEVER be deported Fact: the border will NEVER be militarized

Don't count on it.

203 posted on 04/12/2005 3:03:52 PM PDT by Spiff (Don't believe everything you think.)
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To: Ben Ficklin
So you don't support a guest worker program?

Nope. Before I would be the least bit receptive to the need of a new guest worker program, all Illegal Aliens would have to deported First. Our immigration laws would have to be diligently enforced First. Our borders patrol would have to have the necessary resources to completely halt illegal immigration at the border First.

Anything less is AGAIN putting the cart before the horse and dropping another mismanaged Amnesty GWP on top of a chaotic open borders free for all.

If our elected officials cannot be trusted to enforce the law and live up to their constitutionally mandated duties NOW, how can they be trusted to live up to their promises THEN under any new Amnesty. Kinda makes sense, doesn’t it?

The lesson of the 1986 "amnesty to end all amnesties" is quite instructive here.

204 posted on 04/12/2005 3:08:02 PM PDT by WRhine (Is anything Treasonous these days?)
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To: Spiff
"These poll results put to a lie your assertions that FR members support guest worker plans 2 to 1. In fact, these results demonstrate that FR members OPPOSE guest worker plans by an 8 to 1 margin."

Good catch, Spiff! The CAL lies have become legion.

--Boot Hill

205 posted on 04/12/2005 3:09:25 PM PDT by Boot Hill ("...and Josuha went unto him and said: art thou for us, or for our adversaries?")
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To: blackie

Yep.


206 posted on 04/12/2005 3:15:36 PM PDT by R. Scott (Humanity i love you because when you're hard up you pawn your Intelligence to buy a drink.)
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To: Ben Ficklin
Tell me that part about Mecha, aclu and commies again.

What part? That you and the OBL share common objectives with the above? You know it's the undeniable truth. These subversive organizations do not hide their support for Open Borders. In fact they are quite vocal in their support for it...as you know.

Nice company you run with.

207 posted on 04/12/2005 3:16:05 PM PDT by WRhine (Is anything Treasonous these days?)
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To: Czar; Travis McGee; wardaddy; Spiff; Boot Hill; HiJinx; Marine Inspector; B4Ranch

You never know who's sponsoring these FROBLs or why they push their agenda so diligently. Like the pro-Putin crowd, their message is sometimes subtle and circuitous. Face it, FR is a venue vulnerable to propagandists. But in my discussions with Americans from a variety of political persuasions I hear two things: seal the border humanely; and put American citizens to work first. That some BMW-driving shareholder who belongs to the Republican party because he thinks his taxes might be lower if he supports them might disagree shouldn't surprise us. People vote with their pocketbooks in hand, don't they?


208 posted on 04/12/2005 3:20:19 PM PDT by risk
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To: Ben Ficklin
That is a 7.4 % difference. Non-members make a difference.>>>>>>>


Bad in math TOO ???? or is that *another* spin ???


http://www.freerepublic.com/perl/poll?poll=79;results=1

Members *for* a guest worker program 10.8 percent.

Non members *for* a guest worker program 10.0 percent.


(your gonna have to SHOW ME where you get your 7.4 percent difference from)
209 posted on 04/12/2005 3:23:29 PM PDT by txdoda ("Navy Brat")
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To: Czar

That was well said and quite accurate.


210 posted on 04/12/2005 3:25:35 PM PDT by wardaddy ("Finally!, A Man Worth Killing!")
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To: WRhine; WilliamofCarmichael
But the issue is whose America survives?

The reason it's a done deal is because it's probably a 1:1 ratio between all illegals and the children of some who are US citizens (assuming that they were born here). Take a drive around SoCal and you'll see hordes of young children per parent - no way all those kids were brought across the border.

That means the version of 'which America survives' has already been cast. These kids are your fellow 'citizens' - embrace them and feel the love.

211 posted on 04/12/2005 3:30:40 PM PDT by lemura
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To: Czar; Ben Ficklin
And you and the rest of your pack are the put-America-last fringe.

The undeniable truth about this seditious lot.

212 posted on 04/12/2005 3:33:37 PM PDT by WRhine (Is anything Treasonous these days?)
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To: harrowup
"And this is where the bigotry charge gets its running charge, every time you use it."

And every time you and your hyena pack make that charge, it reveals all of you for the put-America-last-we-don't-care-about-American sovereignty, culture, language or customs, race baiters that you are.

In other words, bigotry charges from a race baiting ACLU democrat don't amount to much.

213 posted on 04/12/2005 3:35:54 PM PDT by Czar (StillFedUptotheTeeth@Washington)
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To: Ben Ficklin
This is not a scientific poll. It has no basis in society.

LOL......you FIRST referenced this FReeper poll, (now YOU claim "it has no basis").

The second poll referenced (that is more suitable re: "guest workers") clearly shows ONLY 10.8 percent of FReepers are FOR a 'guest worker program'.

214 posted on 04/12/2005 3:36:22 PM PDT by txdoda ("Navy Brat")
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To: risk
"You never know who's sponsoring these FROBLs or why they push their agenda so diligently."

Generally true, but there are some exceptions.

ClintonBeGone refers to Mexican general Santa Anna as his "brother" and has admitted to having investments in Mexico.

Harrowup has confessed to being a life-long member of the ACLU and the Democrat party and admitted to being a troll and disruptor   (see here).

They can't help themselves, eventually, they all come out of the closet.

--Boot Hill

215 posted on 04/12/2005 3:36:49 PM PDT by Boot Hill ("...and Josuha went unto him and said: art thou for us, or for our adversaries?")
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To: lemura

Damn your posts are depressing.


216 posted on 04/12/2005 3:37:12 PM PDT by mthom
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To: lemura
That means the version of 'which America survives' has already been cast. These kids are your fellow 'citizens' - embrace them and feel the love.

You do a good Tokyo Rose.

217 posted on 04/12/2005 3:37:48 PM PDT by WRhine (Is anything Treasonous these days?)
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To: Ben Ficklin
It is poll 177 and has been linked above.

Which poll were you refering to in the following line ? I thought it was poll 77.

"This is not a scientific poll. It has no basis in society.

218 posted on 04/12/2005 3:38:09 PM PDT by in the Arena (Life may begin at 30, but it doesn't get real interesting until about 110.)
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To: Boston Blackie

Time for our patriotic Minutemen to arm themselves.


219 posted on 04/12/2005 3:41:00 PM PDT by mjtobias (Our love for Terri was immense; her parents' love was infinite; God's love is everlasting.)
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To: WRhine

Read the rest of Lemuras posts. Lemura is as anti-illegal as the rest of us, just thinks its a lost cause. Too soon to think that way IMO.


220 posted on 04/12/2005 3:41:13 PM PDT by mthom
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To: risk
"That some BMW-driving shareholder who belongs to the Republican party because he thinks his taxes might be lower if he supports them might disagree shouldn't surprise us."

I'm not quite that cynical (yet), but what you say has merit. I would suspect, though, that the majority of such "Republicans" are GOP "Big Tent" RINOs/liberals/moderates rather than conservatives.

221 posted on 04/12/2005 3:42:36 PM PDT by Czar (StillFedUptotheTeeth@Washington)
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Comment #222 Removed by Moderator

To: blackie
When we break the law, we get busted ~ when foreign citizens break the law, they get deified by the lunatic left!

A violent human trafficker ran unfairly banned FReeper idratherbepainting off the road yesterday near our houses. She and her husband were driving on the road when they saw two load vehicles pulled over to the side of the road loading up criminal invaders who were coming out of a field. Across the road was a regular elementary school bus stop, but it was later in the day so no kids were there at the precise moment. They slowed so that they could observe and get the license plate numbers of the vehicles. idratherbepainting hith Border Patrol on the speed dial of her cell phone. The violent human trafficker in one of the trucks saw her and recognized what she was doing. He looked angrily at her and put his truck in gear. He then ran idratherbepainting's truck off the road. He turned his vehicle around and then headed straight at them. They thought they were going to be hit head on. They swerved at the last second and a collision was averted.

It was obvious that the violent human trafficker wanted to ram idratherbepainting's truck. She was screaming on the phone with Border Patrol the whole time. The vehicles sped off to the West and then turned North. Sheriff's deputies intercepted the vehicle that had tried to ram them, but not the other truck. They had them on the ground in handcuffs. idratherbepainting told the Sheriff's office that she wanted to file charges. The deputies wrote up the incident and turned the violent human trafficker and his cargo over to Border Patrol.

Today it was learned that the Sheriff refused to file any charges except for reckless driving despite the fact that the violent human trafficker had committed a greater crime. It was also learned that the Border Patrol had released the violent human trafficker and his cargo back into Mexico.

223 posted on 04/12/2005 3:44:33 PM PDT by Spiff (Don't believe everything you think.)
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To: WRhine

BUMP


224 posted on 04/12/2005 3:44:58 PM PDT by spodefly (This is my tag line. There are many like it, but this one is mine.)
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To: txdoda; Ben Ficklin
LOL......you FIRST referenced this FReeper poll, (now YOU claim "it has no basis").

It's interesting how he changes his stories to suit whatever propaganda he is pushing at any given time.

225 posted on 04/12/2005 3:45:03 PM PDT by WRhine (Is anything Treasonous these days?)
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Comment #226 Removed by Moderator

To: Spiff
Quite the opposite.

As I have pointed out in 173, the poll on support of guest workers among freepers equates to opinion amongst the general public, differing only by degree.

The poll on sealing the border that you claim to be most accurate is an anamoly compared to polls amongst the general public.

227 posted on 04/12/2005 3:50:19 PM PDT by Ben Ficklin
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To: WRhine

Thanks for being honest about it.


228 posted on 04/12/2005 3:51:25 PM PDT by Ben Ficklin
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To: Czar
There isn't a single conservative to be found in your grimy little pack. One of your leaders, harrowup, is an admitted ACLU democrat. As for you and the rest, I am guessing that, at best, you are GOP Big Tent RINOs/liberals/moderates. At best...

You got the RINO/OBL pegged to a tee. Well said.

229 posted on 04/12/2005 3:51:57 PM PDT by WRhine (Is anything Treasonous these days?)
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To: WRhine

They really don't pass the sniff test...


230 posted on 04/12/2005 3:53:33 PM PDT by Czar (StillFedUptotheTeeth@Washington)
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To: risk
But in my discussions with Americans from a variety of political persuasions I hear two things: seal the border humanely; and put American citizens to work first.

This are the winning positions for candidates interested in running for elective office in either party. The issues sell themselves.

231 posted on 04/12/2005 3:57:53 PM PDT by WRhine (Is anything Treasonous these days?)
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To: txdoda
On the "seal the border part" the differnce is 3.4 divided by 45.9= 7.4%.

Do you not understand, that poll is an anomoly. Compared to polls exterior to FR, it would have to be bell shaped to be accurate.

232 posted on 04/12/2005 3:58:14 PM PDT by Ben Ficklin
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To: Spiff

Roger that ~ Bump!


233 posted on 04/12/2005 3:58:45 PM PDT by blackie (Be Well~Be Armed~Be Safe~Molon Labe!)
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To: Ben Ficklin
The poll on sealing the border that you claim to be most accurate is an anamoly compared to polls amongst the general public.

I did not quote a poll on "sealing the border". I quoted a poll which offered a handful of options of which FReepers overwhelmingly OPPOSED a guest worker plan by a margin of 8 to 1. Since you were selective in which poll you picked to bolster your retarded point of view and even twisted the results of that poll, you can be expected to be similary idiotic when selecting other polls to support your stupid point of view and to similarly twist their results.

You can't be trusted. You have no credibility. You've proven this time and time again. You're convincing no one at Free Republic to your point of view and you're wasting your time and everyone elses time.

234 posted on 04/12/2005 3:59:31 PM PDT by Spiff (Don't believe everything you think.)
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To: Ben Ficklin
Thanks for being honest about it.

You are welcome.

235 posted on 04/12/2005 3:59:33 PM PDT by WRhine (Is anything Treasonous these days?)
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To: lemura
RE: "That means the version of 'which America survives' has already been cast. These kids are your fellow 'citizens' - embrace them and feel the love."

Maybe.

I'd be willing to accept all (except criminals of course) as permanent residents under the color of law (PRUCOL). That covers temporary as well as those who own property and businesses as well as those with good paying career jobs.

Then enforce existing laws and let the world know in no uncertain terms.

Of the many nationalities here Mexico seems to be the worst offender as far as meddling in our internal affairs. The corrupt government of Mexico has a policy of "a nation beyond borders." They are looking out for their citizens and expect their loyalty in return.

So as for "feeling the love" it is entirely up to them not Americans. Let them choose.

BTW, I have provided links to news articles about Ireland meddling in our affairs vis-a-vis their citizens living here ILLEGALLY. Ditto for them and all who refuse to swear loyalty to the United States of America.

236 posted on 04/12/2005 4:00:53 PM PDT by WilliamofCarmichael (MSM Fraudcasters are skid marks on journalism's clean shorts.)
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To: in the Arena
Another poll has been introduced to the thread and I don't have the number of it.

I guess it boils down to which poll do you think is most accurate because they contradict.

237 posted on 04/12/2005 4:03:13 PM PDT by Ben Ficklin
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To: Spiff

BUMP


238 posted on 04/12/2005 4:03:53 PM PDT by spodefly (This is my tag line. There are many like it, but this one is mine.)
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To: txdoda

The poll on guest workers contradicts your poll.


239 posted on 04/12/2005 4:05:10 PM PDT by Ben Ficklin
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Comment #240 Removed by Moderator

To: lemura
The mexican birth rate is falling.

It is the muslims that you need to worry about, their birthrate is not falling. If anyone inherits the earth, it will be the muslims.

241 posted on 04/12/2005 4:08:11 PM PDT by Ben Ficklin
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To: Ben Ficklin
The poll on guest workers contradicts your poll.

The poll on various border solutions supersedes the poorly worded poll which you reference. Give it up.

242 posted on 04/12/2005 4:09:30 PM PDT by Spiff (Don't believe everything you think.)
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Comment #243 Removed by Moderator

To: Ben Ficklin
If anyone inherits the earth, it will be the muslims.

Thank you so much, Ben. We'll likely get a lot of mileage out of this one. Good work.

244 posted on 04/12/2005 4:11:23 PM PDT by Spiff (Don't believe everything you think.)
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To: Spiff
No, I introduced one and only one poll.

It is a poll that you and others don't like so another poll was introduced to the thread. The logic among your crowd is that the second poll is the truth.

The poll that I introduced is the truth. 60% support a guest worker plan.

245 posted on 04/12/2005 4:13:11 PM PDT by Ben Ficklin
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To: Spiff

The birth rate is the birth rate. You can't spin it.


246 posted on 04/12/2005 4:15:23 PM PDT by Ben Ficklin
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To: Ben Ficklin
As I have pointed out in 173, the poll on support of guest workers among freepers equates to opinion amongst the general public, differing only by degree.

Every public opinion poll I've seen regarding “Amnesties” has shown an overwhelming majority of Americans being against Amnesty. Every one. You constantly specify “GWP”. I'd like to see those polls and what outfit ran them.

And again: The FR poll you referenced shows that 80% want illegal aliens deported back to Mexico under any proposed GWP or don’t want a GWP program at all. Doesn't work towards your OBL side does it?

247 posted on 04/12/2005 4:17:59 PM PDT by WRhine (Is anything Treasonous these days?)
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To: Ben Ficklin
On the "seal the border part"

Where have I posted anything in this thread about "sealing the borders ??" (although it is a very good idea !!).

I have only questioned YOUR statement that "sixty percent of FReepers favored a guest worker program".......the poll you linked showed about fifty percent (of your sixty) would approve GW's IF they applied from ORIGIN COUNTRY. (a little *fact* you didn't include in your first post).

248 posted on 04/12/2005 4:21:26 PM PDT by txdoda ("Navy Brat")
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To: WRhine
We are not polling amnesty, we are polling guest worker plans.

If you try to poll amnesty then you have to poll earned legalization. If you poll earned legalization, you have to poll "path to citizenship". It cant be done.

249 posted on 04/12/2005 4:24:19 PM PDT by Ben Ficklin
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To: Ben Ficklin
If anyone inherits the earth, it will be the muslims.

And despite of the horrors of 9/11, the Bush Administration and Congress saw fit to continue the insane policy of allowing immigration from the very Terrorist harboring nations that brought us this nightmare. Says a lot about the leadership of this country.

250 posted on 04/12/2005 4:25:58 PM PDT by WRhine (Is anything Treasonous these days?)
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