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Baptist church 'fake pope' sign attracting attention, criticism (Pope Bound for Hell).
Knoxville News-Sentinel Co. ^ | April 13, 2005 | JEANNINE F. HUNTER

Posted on 04/14/2005 12:00:51 PM PDT by Dean Baker

Baptist church 'fake pope' sign attracting attention, criticism By JEANNINE F. HUNTER, April 13, 2005

NEWPORT, Tenn. - Two days after being posted, a church marquee message that questions the purpose of the papacy is still attracting attention in this small community.

"What I am trying to do is to let people know there's only one way to heaven through Jesus Christ," said the Rev. Cline Franklin, pastor of Hilltop Baptist Church. "There's no need for help. God sent his son, Jesus Christ. We're all priests if we're saved. I don't need to go to anybody else to pray."

The sign's side facing Broadway, the main thoroughfare in Newport, reads, "No truth, No hope Following a hell-bound pope!" On the other side, facing the church parking lot, it reads: "False hope in a fake pope."

The message appeared days after Pope John Paul II's funeral last week.

"It is unfortunate when it comes from within the Christian church. It's really sad," said the Rev. Dan Whitman, 54, pastor of Newport's Good Shepherd Catholic parish and Holy Trinity parish in Jefferson City. "You learn how to deal with it and pray not to be that way yourself."

It does not reflect mainstream Baptist thought, said Dr. Merrill "Mel" Hawkins, associate professor of religion and director of the Center for Baptist Studies at Carson-Newman College in Jefferson City.

"When you see signs like that, they are almost like relics or artifacts of a bygone era," Hawkins said.

He spoke about animus between Protestants and Catholics persisting after the Protestant Reformation and for centuries, during which "harsh things were said, couched within misperceptions, misunderstandings."

Among the major misperceptions is that Catholics "venerate the pope on the same level as Jesus," Hawkins said, and that "the pope is connected to their salvation in place of Jesus Christ."

Catholics make up about 12 percent of the population in the South.

"Catholics are a minority faith in the South, and there's often bias toward minority religious communities because people don't understand," he said.

James Gaddis, a lay speaker who also chairs the board at First United Methodist Church, said he had not seen the sign but had heard about it.

"I understand that it's very degrading," he said. "I think it's tragic that any church group would stoop to this posture."

Following Tuesday night's council meeting, Newport Mayor Roland Dykes Jr. said he was a little saddened by the message.

"It doesn't behoove any of us to determine who is going to heaven or hell. I think the pope is a highly, highly respected person," he said.

Franklin's church is a five-year-old independent Baptist church. When asked what the message meant, he said: "What does 'pope' mean? It means father. We have a heavenly father, and the Bible says we shall call no man a father. "

He said people have been driving by or taking pictures or calling to share their views. He said the intent was not to offend Catholics and people are misunderstanding the sign.

Copyright 2005, Knoxville News-Sentinel Co.

TOPICS: Front Page News
KEYWORDS: agitator; apostacy; apostasy; apostate; apostolicsuccession; baptist; bigots; bornagainbigots; cary; catholic; catholicism; catholicpriest; dedmundjoaquin; fundamentalism; fundamentalist; gahenna; hades; hateonparade; hatingforchrist; hell; heresy; heretic; heretical; hypocrisy; hypocrites; idiotsonparade; kittychow; kkk; livinginthepast; magisterium; maryworship; newbie; nutcase; nutjob; papacy; pope; popery; popishheresies; priest; priesthood; purgatory; rc; romancatholic; romancatholicism; talibaptist; talibaptists; transubstantiation; trollrus; wacko; whackjob; whoburntanabaptists; zotbait
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To: Logophile

Allah is originally a moon god.

To be blunt, Mohammed pulled his whole religion out of his rear end . . .grafting together Arab pagan moon practices with most of the old and new testament.

It's fundamentally inconsistent and theologically unsound.

201 posted on 04/14/2005 1:17:27 PM PDT by MeanWestTexan
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To: Dean Baker
iirc, the Mass cycles through the year following the Bible... as for reading the Bible... i was always taught that was something you did at home for homework cause i only had Catechism on thurs afternoons
202 posted on 04/14/2005 1:17:36 PM PDT by Chode (American Hedonist ©®)
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To: Lekker 1

I don't know.

203 posted on 04/14/2005 1:19:11 PM PDT by Modernman ("I'm in favor of limited government unless it limits what I want government to do."- dirtboy)
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To: Designed

Doesn't make a difference. There was still no "New Testament" to be preached from, and it would be preposterous to assume that everything they preached - every miracle recounted - every parable told - ended up in the canon.

Everything IN the canon is truth, but the story of salvation continues to unfold, otherwise, how could anyone even begin to defend Luther, who used no Scriptural citation in his infamous "95 Theses" - based on his interpretation of tradition and with no support from Scripture.

204 posted on 04/14/2005 1:19:12 PM PDT by Rutles4Ever
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To: FreepinforTerri

205 posted on 04/14/2005 1:20:30 PM PDT by conservonator (Blank by popular demand)
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To: Dean Baker

I've been rolling this around for several weeks:

It seems to me that, at the Last Day, everyone will finally see the Truth. We will know things are true that we only thought were true, and we will know things are false that we thought were false. We will be shocked to learn that some things we thought false are actually true, and probably equally shocked to learn that some things we thought true are patently false. Once that process has happened, we will all find ourselves sharing one common position on every subject, and it won't be my position or your position or the Pope's position -- it will be God's position. I don't have much insight into the exact process, whether it would be instant or prolonged, but I'm comfortable with the idea that we'll all get the "Final Judgment Day revelation of the Big Picture of Truth" or, as some may choose to put it, "The Ultimate Answer to the Ultimate Question of Life, the Universe, and Everything."

It seems to me that some constructive things come out of this line of thinking:
One is that, since we're all going to at last agree with God's view of things anyway, we'd be wise to get a head start. The key, here, is that I cease pursuing truth for truth's sake, or for the sake of my pride in being right, or far any other reason aside from pursuing truth for the sake of being in agreement with God; knowing His mind on the issue. You or I could be wrong; He is never wrong.

Another is that, although we may disagree in the present, with this future reality in mind, we are now forced to do so with an entirely different attitude; one of humility and willingness to be wrong -- even if we're really, REALLY sure that we're right. Regardless of WHAT we disagree about we know we'll be in agreement at some future point, so the present-day reality is that HOW we disagree becomes an equally important concern. The attitude and demeanor of our disagreement must be transformed from adversarial to collaborative; from one of division to one of unity. We must recognize that one (or perhaps both) of us will be changing our minds one day, and that it won't be MY doing or YOUR doing -- I won't "win" the debate and neither will you -- it will be HIS doing. He, The LORD of Hosts will win the debate. We are thus liberated from the need to be in a specific camp -- "I follow Paul. I follow Apollos." -- and free to persevere with one another; to dispassionately and objectively, with love and humility, pick through the finest elements of any debate seeking, not personal vindication but, the very heart and mind of God.

All who are in Christ Jesus sit, together, at a single table over 2000 years long with Our Lord at the Head. And shall we now dignify His Holy sacrifice for us by taking up the Bread and Wine and having a food fight? What an appalling notion! Yet, I submit to my brethren, this is precisely what has been done. We stand with crumbs in our hair, wine on our clothes, arms waving, bickering back and forth at each other and, all the while, Jesus reclines calmly at the head of the table with this quizzical half-smile on his face thinking, "Boy they're really going to feel foolish when The Father brings it all down to a close and they finally see the real Truth." And we WILL. Every last single one of us will.

So, how ought we then live?

Just something I've been thinking about & thought I'd share

206 posted on 04/14/2005 1:20:43 PM PDT by HKMk23 (Rex regum et Dominus dominantium)
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To: lizma

When I was in Catholic grade school we had what was called Bible history. It was the Bible made accessable to young children. In High School we studied the actual Bible. But the Catholic Church does not encourage people to interpret the Bible own their own. That is why there are 3 scripture readings during the Mass that are usually interpreted during the Homily.

207 posted on 04/14/2005 1:20:57 PM PDT by Barb4Bush
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To: JohnnyZ

Well, all I know is that I am still praying, and the candy bar hasn't shown up yet. I think the Shinto Priest might win...because Shinto is such a cool word and it's fun to say.

208 posted on 04/14/2005 1:21:07 PM PDT by Lekker 1 ("There is not the slightest indication that nuclear energy will ever be attainable"- Albert Einstein)
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To: Dean Baker

There is but one who will decide who enters and who is cast out... It is not for us to say.
It seems to me that any man who assumes the ability to make that determination, minister or not, does so at great peril of angering a vengeful God.

209 posted on 04/14/2005 1:21:07 PM PDT by BlueNgold (Feed the Tree .....)
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To: Dean Baker
Yea, well I sat in a Catholic church with my friend's family and listened to priest say that non-Catholics were hell bound. Such is life.

Protestant's typically do not recognize the Pope as anything more than the top preacher of a very large church. They do not necessarily acknowledge him as God's direct representative on Earth. Furthermore, protestants typically believe that worship of the Pope is blasphemous.

Judging from all the nasty comments on this thread it appears that many people are ignorant of the long standing differences between Catholicism and Protestantism.

I'm no theological scholar however so this is all just my opinion.
210 posted on 04/14/2005 1:21:26 PM PDT by Texas_Jarhead
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To: FreepinforTerri

Yes, if dunking is defaming, then Christ should have punched John the Baptist in the kisser.

Plus the whole Holy Spirit coming down as a dove and God, Himself, saying "This is my Son, with whom I am pleased." (paraphrase).

LOL. Dunk, dribble, whatever.

As long as it is in the name of the father, son, and holy spirit.

In fact, the most touching Baptism I ever saw involved a soldier, 4 other soldier praying, and a flight mechanic from Louisiana with a dirty canteen.

211 posted on 04/14/2005 1:22:09 PM PDT by MeanWestTexan
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To: concerned about politics

I know that many pagan rituals have been "Christianized" by the Church in the past, which was actually a good idea, took something bad and used it to remind of of Christ(e.g. Christmas Trees). But honestly the "Roman Bablylonian Brotherhood" theory reeks of conspiracy theory stuff. I wouldn't call it simple history at all.

212 posted on 04/14/2005 1:22:16 PM PDT by rmichaelj
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To: Verginius Rufus
and the people from other regions of the country who have moved to the South in recent decades.

The Catholic population in the South has exploded in growth over the last 15 years, mostly due to Yankees (midwest, northeast, all types) and partly due to Hispanic immigration.

213 posted on 04/14/2005 1:22:20 PM PDT by JohnnyZ (“When you’re hungry, you eat; when you’re a frog, you leap; if you’re scared, get a dog.”)
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To: jbloedow

#41 was well said.

214 posted on 04/14/2005 1:23:04 PM PDT by Texas_Jarhead
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To: Darkwolf

Pope John Paul II was a decent, godly man. Even I, a doubting Protestant who almost never goes to church, could see that. It's possible to disagree with parts of the RC theology without concluding that fine man, who did more to advance the teachings of Christianity than any other one man in the twentieth century, without smearing him and saying he's bound for Hell.

215 posted on 04/14/2005 1:23:25 PM PDT by libstripper
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To: Blogger

Excuse Me? Carson-Newman is my Alma Mater and first off it's not a Baptist school, it's a Liberal Arts college affiliated with the Tennessee baptist Convention. And second, Carson-Newman is very much a conservative school in it's teachings of Christ and religion. I'm not sure what you mean by ....someone who is an inclusivist or worse...All I can say is You judge that which you do not know.

216 posted on 04/14/2005 1:23:50 PM PDT by CrazyJoeDivola
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To: Dean Baker
We have a heavenly father, and the Bible says we shall call no man a father. "

Is this why they call their fathers "Daddy" even as grown men?

217 posted on 04/14/2005 1:24:08 PM PDT by Bella_Bru (You're about as funny as a case sensitive search engine.)
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To: Lekker 1
Is not the name "Allah" cognate with the name "Elohim" (Plural of Eloh)?

In ancient Hebrew, "Allahom" means "The curse", or "Allah" means "curse". If Israel turned it's back on God, they would suffer "Allahom." (That one is in the Tora)

218 posted on 04/14/2005 1:24:12 PM PDT by concerned about politics (Vote Republican - Vote morally correct!)
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To: Texas_Jarhead
Yea, well I sat in a Catholic church with my friend's family and listened to priest say that non-Catholics were hell bound. Such is life.

Having attended literally thousands of Catholic Masses, I have never heard a priest make a similar claim.

219 posted on 04/14/2005 1:25:09 PM PDT by conservonator (Blank by popular demand)
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To: Dean Baker

This clown just sounds like a jerk no matter what your faith is.

220 posted on 04/14/2005 1:25:16 PM PDT by WestVirginiaRebel (Carnac: A siren, a baby and a liberal. Answer: Name three things that whine.)
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