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Baptist church 'fake pope' sign attracting attention, criticism (Pope Bound for Hell).
Knoxville News-Sentinel Co. ^ | April 13, 2005 | JEANNINE F. HUNTER

Posted on 04/14/2005 12:00:51 PM PDT by Dean Baker

Baptist church 'fake pope' sign attracting attention, criticism By JEANNINE F. HUNTER, April 13, 2005

NEWPORT, Tenn. - Two days after being posted, a church marquee message that questions the purpose of the papacy is still attracting attention in this small community.

"What I am trying to do is to let people know there's only one way to heaven through Jesus Christ," said the Rev. Cline Franklin, pastor of Hilltop Baptist Church. "There's no need for help. God sent his son, Jesus Christ. We're all priests if we're saved. I don't need to go to anybody else to pray."

The sign's side facing Broadway, the main thoroughfare in Newport, reads, "No truth, No hope Following a hell-bound pope!" On the other side, facing the church parking lot, it reads: "False hope in a fake pope."

The message appeared days after Pope John Paul II's funeral last week.

"It is unfortunate when it comes from within the Christian church. It's really sad," said the Rev. Dan Whitman, 54, pastor of Newport's Good Shepherd Catholic parish and Holy Trinity parish in Jefferson City. "You learn how to deal with it and pray not to be that way yourself."

It does not reflect mainstream Baptist thought, said Dr. Merrill "Mel" Hawkins, associate professor of religion and director of the Center for Baptist Studies at Carson-Newman College in Jefferson City.

"When you see signs like that, they are almost like relics or artifacts of a bygone era," Hawkins said.

He spoke about animus between Protestants and Catholics persisting after the Protestant Reformation and for centuries, during which "harsh things were said, couched within misperceptions, misunderstandings."

Among the major misperceptions is that Catholics "venerate the pope on the same level as Jesus," Hawkins said, and that "the pope is connected to their salvation in place of Jesus Christ."

Catholics make up about 12 percent of the population in the South.

"Catholics are a minority faith in the South, and there's often bias toward minority religious communities because people don't understand," he said.

James Gaddis, a lay speaker who also chairs the board at First United Methodist Church, said he had not seen the sign but had heard about it.

"I understand that it's very degrading," he said. "I think it's tragic that any church group would stoop to this posture."

Following Tuesday night's council meeting, Newport Mayor Roland Dykes Jr. said he was a little saddened by the message.

"It doesn't behoove any of us to determine who is going to heaven or hell. I think the pope is a highly, highly respected person," he said.

Franklin's church is a five-year-old independent Baptist church. When asked what the message meant, he said: "What does 'pope' mean? It means father. We have a heavenly father, and the Bible says we shall call no man a father. "

He said people have been driving by or taking pictures or calling to share their views. He said the intent was not to offend Catholics and people are misunderstanding the sign.

Copyright 2005, Knoxville News-Sentinel Co.

TOPICS: Front Page News
KEYWORDS: agitator; apostacy; apostasy; apostate; apostolicsuccession; baptist; bigots; bornagainbigots; cary; catholic; catholicism; catholicpriest; dedmundjoaquin; fundamentalism; fundamentalist; gahenna; hades; hateonparade; hatingforchrist; hell; heresy; heretic; heretical; hypocrisy; hypocrites; idiotsonparade; kittychow; kkk; livinginthepast; magisterium; maryworship; newbie; nutcase; nutjob; papacy; pope; popery; popishheresies; priest; priesthood; purgatory; rc; romancatholic; romancatholicism; talibaptist; talibaptists; transubstantiation; trollrus; wacko; whackjob; whoburntanabaptists; zotbait
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To: Rutles4Ever
but nothing about how Christianity was practiced prior to the existence of the Bible

Tell me, did the "Roman Church" give us the Bible?

You have some explaining to do with some two dozen human authors who spoke Hebrew and predate your "church" by hundreds and by thousands of years.
341 posted on 04/14/2005 2:23:24 PM PDT by safisoft (Give me Torah!)
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To: Elsie

" was not formally defined until 1854.
HMmmm...,P>Why so LATE??
Why at ALL, after all that time??"

Probably because it was universally accepted by all Catholics with rare exceptions and there was no need to define it. Maybe because it needed to be defined at that time so that relativists and secularists within the Church during the 20th Century couldn't confuse the Faithful. Many good reasons, I'm not sure what the most important or relevant one is.

342 posted on 04/14/2005 2:23:35 PM PDT by rmichaelj
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To: MeanWestTexan

What I really meant was that Protistants (Not just Jahova Witness') don't consider just being Catholic "Enough".

And really, now that I know more about their faith, I can see how they believe that.

343 posted on 04/14/2005 2:25:11 PM PDT by Dean Baker (Two wrongs may not make a right, but three lefts do.)
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To: safisoft

Did "Mary" sin?
Was she conceived by a virgin?
Does she serve in the role of redeemer?
Is she the "Queen of Heaven"?

I've never heard any of that. ?

Do people think Catholics believe that??

Why do you ask that? Just curious...

344 posted on 04/14/2005 2:27:20 PM PDT by Dean Baker (Two wrongs may not make a right, but three lefts do.)
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To: Dean Baker
"How widespread are these beleifs? If at all??"

More widespread than we know, and it cuts both ways. (There are Catholics who say no one can be saved outside the Catholic church, although I know the Pope never said that.)

I find behavior like that reported in this article abhorrent. Sure we can disagree on doctrinal issues, but to do this right after the Pope dies certainly isn't something Jesus would do or condone.

345 posted on 04/14/2005 2:27:35 PM PDT by MEGoody (Ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.)
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To: Dean Baker

Bump FL

346 posted on 04/14/2005 2:27:46 PM PDT by Alas Babylon!
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To: TightyRighty

I'm not sure which Christian faith you belong to, but it isn't quite the same as those Protestant services of friends I am familiar with. There is no one singular event, such as I am familiar with a friends Evangelical church. We accept Jesus at Baptism, at every Mass and Holy Communion, through our prayer life and reading Scriptures. It is an ongoing relationship and renewed through sacraments, because we humans all have our failings.

347 posted on 04/14/2005 2:27:56 PM PDT by fortunecookie
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To: MeanWestTexan
I am sorry I offended your friend, but Islam is internally inconsistent. It is clearly just grafted together nonsense.

My point was not that my friend would be offended, but that my friend does not find Islam to be as nonsensical as you do. He know his religion better than any outsider, and he undoubtedly has good reasons to follow it.

In general, I am reluctant to brand any religious beliefs as "internally inconsistent" or "nonsense", especially when I see that many intelligent and well educated people believe in it. Moreover, I would rather learn about a religion from its adherents rather than its opponents. (One would not expect a Nazi to give a fair account of Judaism, for example.)

348 posted on 04/14/2005 2:28:47 PM PDT by Logophile
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To: Dean Baker

"I've never seen any argument based on Catholicism being from the Devil"

Where I grew up my Catholic friends were taught that I, a Lutheran, was going to hell and that Martin Luther WAS the devil!! lol

349 posted on 04/14/2005 2:29:22 PM PDT by bonfire
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To: Matchett-PI
God's elect are free. They love God and are free to do as they damned well please.

Free to call them ign'ant and tell you to stop being a self-righteous hater! :)

350 posted on 04/14/2005 2:29:35 PM PDT by JohnnyZ (“When you’re hungry, you eat; when you’re a frog, you leap; if you’re scared, get a dog.”)
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To: concerned about politics
I agree, although I would NOT agree anyone who's not a Catholic is unAmerican - if that's what you mean.

That isn't what I mean at all. My comment was intended to demonstrate that those who condemn Catholics without understanding us are no better than those who condemn America without understanding it.

351 posted on 04/14/2005 2:29:45 PM PDT by NittanyLion
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To: MeanWestTexan

I wish I could remember the rest of the homily, because the distinction he drew wasn't immediately apparent to me either. Unfortunately, like many homilies, it did not stay in my head and so I can't explain the difference as my pastor explained it. But he definitely was defining the Catholic beliefs as different from "born again." I don't believe there is any such thing as a "born again Catholic."

352 posted on 04/14/2005 2:29:59 PM PDT by GraceCoolidge
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To: fortunecookie

there is a competition between the Baptists and the Methodists to see who can 'recruit' the most Catholics and they are having some success.


They are ALL the same!! READ..STUDY..SEARCH!! You tell me what a 501(c)3 status (tax exempt) has done to organized religion. You identify the same whore of babylon that is in GENESIS (the beginning) and still in Revelation (the end)
WHO is she? Because unless you can solve that mystery and you can, if you're not to lazy to look for will have your answer to the endtimes "IF IT WERE POSSIBLE EVEN THE VERY ELECT OF GOD WILL BE DECEIVED." How elect are you feeling today?

Do you know what a remnant is? A SMALL piece of a whole piece.

Do you know the difference between the WIDE path that leads to destruction, which MANY take and the NARROW..gated path that FEW enter in?

Just the sheer numbers of people in organized religion should tell you something......just the fact that there is a new 501(c)3 church goes up somewhere EVERYDAY yet our country becomes more and more wicked, should be a small CLUE.

I can't figure out where peoples common sense and the ability to think for themselves has gone!!

Is anyone out there reading their bibles for themselves or are you all mindless drones being programed by your money hungry pastors preaching a plastic Jesus!!

Are you all ones that will be crying...but Lord didn't we prophecy in YOUR name...didn't we heal in YOUR name...didn't we cast out devils in YOUR he looks at you and says..."Depart from me you workers of iniquity...I KNEW YOU NOT."

I'm not saying it....HE is saying it!!!!

353 posted on 04/14/2005 2:29:59 PM PDT by BriarBey
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To: adiaireton8
"Well, then Jesus and animals and plants and stones and electrons have sinned too."

Uh not quite. The animals and plants and stones and electrons may have sinned, but since they don't have a spirit breathed into them by God, it doesn't matter.

And since Jesus is God manifest in the flesh, that verse does not apply to Him. He didn't fall short of the glory of Himself. :)

354 posted on 04/14/2005 2:30:23 PM PDT by MEGoody (Ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.)
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To: GraceCoolidge

Dear GraceCoolidge,

When an individual is baptized in the Catholic Church, one is said to be "born from above," or "born again," in that according to Catholic theology, one's soul comes alive, the Holy Spirit comes to reside in the soul, and the soul is infused with grace, at baptism.

In Catholic theology, baptism constitutes being "born again," or "born from above."


355 posted on 04/14/2005 2:31:29 PM PDT by sitetest (If Roe is not overturned, no unborn child will ever be protected in law.)
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To: Designed; Dean Baker
"...Is the Catholic Church, or any other church for that matter, teaching the APOSTOLIC faith or are they teaching the uninspired doctrines of men ...?"

If Rome cannot affirm the authority of Scripture apart from the caveat that tradition is necessary to explain the Bible's true meaning, let them explain how that does NOT make tradition a superior authority to Scripture.

Since Rome claims infallibility for itself, let them explain how that doesn't make the Scriptures ultimately irrelevant.

356 posted on 04/14/2005 2:32:51 PM PDT by Matchett-PI (The DemocRAT Party is a criminal enterprise.)
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To: bonfire

Who is Martin Luther?

(And SHAZAAM! Just as I type that, I realize "Lutheran"..."Martin Lurther"...So, maybe the founder of the Lutheran church?)

Is he maybe part of the reason for Martin Luther King's name??

357 posted on 04/14/2005 2:33:00 PM PDT by Dean Baker (Two wrongs may not make a right, but three lefts do.)
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To: Dean Baker

Well, Paul (in Romans or maybe one of the letters)boiled down what is needed for salvation to (roughly) "Jesus was the son of God. He did sinless as a sacrifice for your sins. Ask for Him to save you and He will."

After that, it's gravy.

(He also wrote a bunch on how to put up with stupid theological snit fits --- be nice to them.)

358 posted on 04/14/2005 2:33:09 PM PDT by MeanWestTexan
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To: safisoft
but without mentioning the non-biblical word "sacriment".

ROFLMAO, "sacriment" is not a word.

359 posted on 04/14/2005 2:33:46 PM PDT by JohnnyZ (“When you’re hungry, you eat; when you’re a frog, you leap; if you’re scared, get a dog.”)
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To: sitetest

I am and was raised Catholic myself, and I still don't believe that the Catholic church uses "born again" the same way other faiths express that belief. When you say one's "soul comes alive" at Catholic baptism, surely you don't mean to suggest that one who is not baptized Catholic does not have a soul? The Nicene creed states that we "acknowledge one baptism for the forgiveness of sins." The sins are forgiven and we are redeemed through Christ, but again that suggests to me something different from being "born again."

360 posted on 04/14/2005 2:34:30 PM PDT by GraceCoolidge
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