Posted on 05/01/2005 7:30:19 AM PDT by quidnunc
America's "Europe problem" and Europe's "America problem" have been debated for years. The debate is usually framed in terms of policy differences: over prosecuting the war on terrorism; over the United Nations' role in world affairs; over the Kyoto Protocol on the global environment; over Iraq. The differences are real. But attempts to understand them in political, strategic and/or economic terms alone will ultimately fail because such explanations don't reflect the human texture of contemporary Europe.
Europe, and especially Western Europe, is suffering from a crisis of civilizational morale. The most dramatic manifestations are not Europe's fondness for governmental bureaucracy or its devotion to fiscally shaky healthcare schemes and pension plans, its lagging productivity or the appeasement mentality that some leaders display toward Islamist terrorism. No, the most dramatic manifestation is the brute fact that Europe is depopulating itself.
Europe's below-replacement-level birthrates have created situations that would have been unimaginable when the European Common Market was being created in the 1950s. As recent demographic studies show, by the middle of the 21st century, 60% of Italians will have no personal experience of a brother, a sister, an aunt, an uncle or a cousin; Germany will lose the equivalent of the population of the former East Germany; and Spain's population will decline by almost one-quarter.
Europe is depopulating itself in numbers greater than at any time since the Black Death of the 14th century. When an entire continent, healthier, wealthier and more secure than ever before, fails to create the human future in the most elemental sense — by creating the next generation — something serious is afoot.
-snip-
(Excerpt) Read more at latimes.com ...
(Denny Crane: "Sometimes you can only look for answers from God and failing that... and Fox News".)
They won't need to go the expense of ovens. Large trenches will do nicely.
(Denny Crane: "Sometimes you can only look for answers from God and failing that... and Fox News".)
"Where God retreats, Allah advances"-Serge Trifkovic
(Denny Crane: "Sometimes you can only look for answers from God and failing that... and Fox News".)
Nothing to become like them. But obviously Muslims like the lay of the European land. They have been trying to conquer it for 1300 years. It is looking like this time may well succeed.
"A few days ago, I saw where a Dutch man and his family went to Vancouver because it resembles Holland much more than his home country."
I read that article also, and you're right, they're not even close to getting it. The people leaving Holland now are doing so, not because of the impending Muslim takeover, but because of the reaction of whites that don't want their country to be lost (i.e., the anti-immigrant movement).
They have a VERY long way to go if their society is to survive, even to 2050 - and they are not making much headway.
"So if I want to rape your sister and your mother in front of you and then slit all of your throats you can't really say I am wrong for that, right? Actually, I might prefer to feed you all feet first into a wood chipper."
It appears you have failed to read my entire post or perhaps did a line item veto of your own. I talked about the individual's pursuit of happiness and I specifically decried nonconsensual violence as a detriment to that. I am quite sure that my sister and mother would not consent to being raped and having their throat slit. I have no problem with people being a danger to themselves as their self is their own personal responsiblility, but to other people is an infringement of individual rights.
Either way the murderer and Mother Teresa do have things in common: their motive is self-gratification. The killer gets pleasure from carnage and Mother Teresa gets pleasure from her charity work in India. We are all here on this Earth to experience self-gratification...no exceptions.
"Are you stating that there is no objective truth? Or that there is an objective truth that we don't fully know, so therefore people should not impose their beliefs on others?"
Somewhere in between...there is an objective truth, but we will never really fully know what it is, so let us not impose our beliefs upon each other.
Anyway...back to the subject matter..you have failed to answer why it is such a crisis that Europe's population is decreasing and that there are more Muslims in the nation...unlike the "Christian" right here...they haven't openly pushed for theocracy in those nations. Also their presence proves my point...religion can still thrive within a secular government.
You are trying to have it both ways. FR is good for the mind in that we sharpen on another, and destroy each other's misconceptions.
If you are right about absolutely no absolutes (an abusurdity)...If all morality is relative, with no objective existence, or if we can never know what it is, then you have no business making an absolute of the "individuals pursuit of happiness" or of "nonconsenual violence". Either their is knowable objective morality or there is not. If there is, then it should be the basis of our agreement on what the rules for society should be. If there is not, then don't come to me with your nonsense about "individuals pursuit of happiness" or "non onconsenual violence". Those become phony absolutes that you are trying to impose on me with no objective basis, no less objectionable than my effort to impose bible-based laws on you. Please stop the hypocrisy.
*Wow! Mental note.... spell check is my friend.*
What university did you pay big bucks to to teach you this circular gobbledegook? It's surely nothing to base a life or a civilization on. No wonder liberal Euro society is so feckless against the onslaught of Islam. The USA will fare no better in preserving its liberty if it has nothing in its arsenal but relativism.
"f you are right about absolutely no absolutes (an abusurdity)...If all morality is relative, with no objective existence, or if we can never know what it is, then you have no business making an absolute of the "individuals pursuit of happiness" or of "nonconsenual violence". Either their is knowable objective morality or there is not. If there is, then it should be the basis of our agreement on what the rules for society should be. If there is not, then don't come to me with your nonsense about "individuals pursuit of happiness" or "non onconsenual violence". Those become phony absolutes that you are trying to impose on me with no objective basis, no less objectionable than my effort to impose bible-based laws on you. Please stop the hypocrisy."
Geez..you social conservatives fail to see any gray areas. There is no objective morality...but knowing that...we as a people should do the best we can. How are they phony absolutes? Wouldn't you like everyone to have a chance to be happy? So using our combined intellects..let us make a system which maximizes the opportunity! What we need is a set of rules that is flexible and inclusive without turning humankind to a primal survival test. A theocracy of any kind would fail that test as it would bring far more misery. However, the social libertarian alternative gives far more freedom for people to find their own way.
"You're imposing your beliefs on me. "
ROFLMAO...hold on let me compose myself..let me get this straight...giving people the freedom to believe what they want to believe...is imposing beliefs upon you??? You can't be serio..HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!
"Theocracy is part of the Islamic Religion, they always have heavily taxed non-muslims and essentially made them seond-class citizens wherever they have seized power. The reason they haven't done it yet is because there aren't enough of them in those coujntries yet, butthe day will come."
It is part of the Christian religion as well! Perhaps if it were Christians instead of Muslims you would be applauding it! It's all about interpretation isn't it..reading it as you want it to be read. I think its okay...but you don't and you practice it anyway..talk about true hypocrisy.
"What university did you pay big bucks to to teach you this circular gobbledegook? It's surely nothing to base a life or a civilization on. No wonder liberal Euro society is so feckless against the onslaught of Islam. The USA will fare no better in preserving its liberty if it has nothing in its arsenal but relativism."
True liberty is allowing for moral relativism. True liberty is about making up your own mind about what is right for you and your own life only. Let me stress that, You and your own life only! I don't know why I dignified such an oft-regurgitated response with a reply of my own...but I feel that I have to hammer my point across...live and let live..if they want to.
I sense lightning in this guy's future. Want to start a Zot dead pool :)
Certainly the culture of "me me me me me" has a part in the demographic collapse. But the US is also a "me" society, yet we have a much higher birthrate, even among those of european descent. I asked my daughter, who was going to school in France, why the young French are not having children. She said one big factor is a bad economy with poor economic opportunities brought on by socialism. She knew quite a few French kids with advanced degrees who were working part-time because that was all they could get. The French who do work are carrying a gigantic bureaucracy and welfare system on fewer and fewer shoulders. It is difficult to establish the economic basis for raising a family.
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.