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CNN: Man Held in Custody at Frederick, MD Airport, Re: D.C. Plane Scare
Wednesday, May 11, 2005 | Kristinn

Posted on 05/11/2005 10:09:33 AM PDT by kristinn

CNN's Kelly Arena reports that one man is being held by Maryland State Police at an airport in Frederick, MD. The police are waiting for federal authorities to arrive on the scene.

The man is said to be the pilot of the small aircraft that triggered an evacuation of government buildings in downtown Washington when he reportedly violated restricted airspace.

Frederick, MD. is located about an hour northwest of Washington, D.C. along the I-270 corridor.


TOPICS: Breaking News; News/Current Events; US: District of Columbia; US: Maryland; US: Pennsylvania; US: Virginia
KEYWORDS: airraid; dc; evacuation; falsealarm; nationalsecurity; violationofairspace; washingtondc
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To: hummingbird
Oh, you've met my Dad!

LOL!

Reminds me of my dying wish:
When I go, I want to go quietly, like my grandfather,
not screaming in terror, like the passengers in his car.
251 posted on 05/11/2005 2:22:52 PM PDT by HKMk23 (Rex regum et Dominus dominantium)
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To: purpleland
How I pity the bureaucrats and politik aristocracy scramblng for cover. I expect the wayward pilot and/or the Democrats will blame the pilot's faulty navigation on President Bush and the Patriot Act. (Only the last line is sarcasim.)

Can you imagine the paperwork that will be generated in the next few days?
252 posted on 05/11/2005 2:22:53 PM PDT by hummingbird ("If it wasn't for the insomnia, I could have gotten some sleep!")
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To: HairOfTheDog
But lets just run with your scenario fast moving jet scenario. What would you propose they do different, every day, as our policy?

I have a modest proposal. Allow no aircraft with any Muslim aboard to travel to or within the United States.

253 posted on 05/11/2005 2:25:03 PM PDT by thoughtomator ("One cannot say that a law is right simply because it is a law.")
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To: kristinn

http://kdka.com/local/local_story_131164058.html


254 posted on 05/11/2005 2:26:09 PM PDT by Dr. Eckleburg (There are very few shades of gray.)
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To: pa mom
LOL! Could you imagine if AQ started recruiting blue hairs in FL?

That is a scenario too fearful to contemplate...Al Queda Seniors from Florida. They can even use their AARP discounts to buy necessary equipment/ordnance on the cheap.
255 posted on 05/11/2005 2:27:46 PM PDT by hummingbird ("If it wasn't for the insomnia, I could have gotten some sleep!")
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To: HKMk23

LOL!!!!!


256 posted on 05/11/2005 2:28:36 PM PDT by hummingbird ("If it wasn't for the insomnia, I could have gotten some sleep!")
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To: Dr. Eckleburg

Ah..so Smoketown is in the Lancaster area. Thanks, Dr.


257 posted on 05/11/2005 2:28:45 PM PDT by fatnotlazy
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To: jsbankston
thus a private jet going 425 MPH would take less than 2 minutes from the moment it penetrated the perimeter to the time it reached or hit the White House.
Duh!

Can you say 'Patriot Missile Battery'?

Duh!

Patriot PAC-3
Air Defense System

Raytheon (USA)

Patriot Missile System provides defense of critical assets at the corps and theater level. It is designed to engage aircraft, cruise missiles and limited tactical ballistic missiles (TBMs). Such capabilities were introduced with the Patriot PAC-2 system upgrades, and more advanced PAC-3 missile, which introduces advanced antitactical missile capability.


258 posted on 05/11/2005 2:34:45 PM PDT by _Jim (<--- Ann C. and Rush L. speak on gutless Liberals (RealAudio files))
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To: Frank_Discussion
I understand that, but I think no-nonsense no-fly zones and quick responses to violations thereof (a la today) are not any real restriction of movement. Besides, it's hard to get a 1966 Olds to more than about 3 feet altitude... ;)

Oh, I don't know about that! One could take one's vehicle to the guys at Monster Garage, and - voila! - you got a flying car...


259 posted on 05/11/2005 2:36:53 PM PDT by IonImplantGuru (Give me heaven... or a 637!)
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To: hummingbird

And God forbid if we start cutting down on entitlement progams -- that might give them motivation.


260 posted on 05/11/2005 2:39:26 PM PDT by soundandvision
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To: AppyPappy
A suitcase nuke weighs about 500 lbs I think. Technically, they are mines IIRC.

Actually Pappy, according to the National Terrorist Alert Resource Center suit case nukes aren't all that big - I suspect less than 100 lbs.


261 posted on 05/11/2005 2:50:11 PM PDT by IonImplantGuru (Give me heaven... or a 637!)
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To: soundandvision

Hope this isn't off topic, but did anyone see the clip of congress evacuating? During that, someone grabbed a pole from the corner of the room. Anyone know what the heck that thing was? It was gold and there was an eagle at the top of it.


262 posted on 05/11/2005 2:50:56 PM PDT by DrGunsforHands
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To: narby

Truman had the White House rebuilt, not FDR. There is an incredible photo in the Truman Library of the gutted White House with excavation equipment inside.


263 posted on 05/11/2005 2:59:51 PM PDT by MediaMole
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To: Squawk 8888
During my first few hours of training my instructor would hand-surf. Sure gave my legs a workout...

Did he ever pull the "Flintstone slip" on you? Mine did once when I was a bit high on short final....He popped open his door and held it out with his foot.

264 posted on 05/11/2005 3:02:16 PM PDT by Chuckster ("Silence is not golden. It is yellow" Senator Zell Miller)
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To: cake_crumb

Like I said, he should have caught a missile for his stupidity.


265 posted on 05/11/2005 3:18:44 PM PDT by Spktyr (Overwhelmingly superior firepower and the willingness to use it is the only proven peace solution.)
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To: thoughtomator
" I have a modest proposal. Allow no aircraft with any Muslim aboard to travel to or within the United States."

That's reasonable enough for me--if you give an exemption clause for those Muslims who submit in person their travel plans to Homeland Security Headquarters along with an extensive dossier of background material on themselves and all acquaintances and remain present while it is completely researched.
266 posted on 05/11/2005 3:21:29 PM PDT by SolomoninSouthDakota (Daschle is gone.)
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To: hummingbird

How I pity the bureaucrats and politik aristocracy scramblng for cover. I expect the wayward pilot and/or the Democrats will blame the pilot's faulty navigation on President Bush and the Patriot Act. (Only the last line is sarcasim.)

Can you imagine the paperwork that will be generated in the next few days?

***I'm about all the toilet paper...


267 posted on 05/11/2005 3:21:58 PM PDT by purpleland (The price of freedom is vigilance.)
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To: RSmithOpt

Yup, though the B had a nasty habit of getting distracted by the sun and wandering off by itself.


Either way, he should have received a missile for his actions. That's one government expense I'd happily help pay.


268 posted on 05/11/2005 3:22:55 PM PDT by Spktyr (Overwhelmingly superior firepower and the willingness to use it is the only proven peace solution.)
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To: Chuckster

Reminds me of the days in a P2V. Opening up a hatch in the aft ordnance area, holding a corn broom out until the pilot trimmed it up, then pulling it back in. Then there's the times I'd milk the flexible rupper tube going to the true air transducer. Roller coaster.


269 posted on 05/11/2005 3:25:46 PM PDT by P3_Acoustic
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To: purpleland

(Hummm....reposted due to my incoherent comment...)

"How I pity the bureaucrats and politik aristocracy scramblng for cover. I expect the wayward pilot and/or the Democrats will blame the pilot's faulty navigation on President Bush and the Patriot Act. (Only the last line is sarcasim.)"

Can you imagine the paperwork that will be generated in the next few days?

***I'm imagining all the toilet paper today..."



270 posted on 05/11/2005 3:27:22 PM PDT by purpleland (The price of freedom is vigilance.)
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To: hummingbird

(Hummm....reposted due to my incoherent comment...)

"How I pity the bureaucrats and politik aristocracy scramblng for cover. I expect the wayward pilot and/or the Democrats will blame the pilot's faulty navigation on President Bush and the Patriot Act. (Only the last line is sarcasim.)"

Can you imagine the paperwork that will be generated in the next few days?

***I'm imagining all the toilet paper today..."


271 posted on 05/11/2005 3:29:07 PM PDT by purpleland (The price of freedom is vigilance.)
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To: jsbankston

That's why the systems around Washington need to be automatic with man-in-the-loop abort capability.


272 posted on 05/11/2005 3:30:19 PM PDT by Spktyr (Overwhelmingly superior firepower and the willingness to use it is the only proven peace solution.)
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To: N. Theknow; Aeronaut
Fort Detrick, MD Home of the famous "Anthrax bldg".. flown over it many a time in the past....Fredrick follows the standard design for most airports, there is usually something one really doesn't want to impact in case of engine failure after takeoff (most usually a school), which is constructed at the worst possible location for an engine out situation, right after the airport opens up.. it must be some sort of unwritten law

I've rented aircraft from Smoketown in the past, way back, used to be a nice place, don't know about what it's like now, did some avionics work for them too, a long time ago, traded it for flight time, an honored and age old practice ;-)

IMO this dude was a complete idijit, there is simply no excuse, in these post 9/11 days, for flying around down there without being in radio contact with either a tower or an approach/departure control, and knowing your position at all times ( a cinch with GPS, even with nothing but a sectional and VOR). This sounds like either a leftist wacko testing the waters, or some other nefarious individual (can't profile here, but you get the pic) doing the same thing as a dry run for another "for real" kamikaze attempt, with whatever payload you can imagine would fit even in a 150 (and there is a LOT of REALLY nasty stuff that will fit in even the smallest A/C.

Now, I may not have a medical any more (the FAA takes a dim view of those with closed head injuries, who take 200mg/day of Topamax (TM) for uncontrolled Migraines,( do you know that that stuff makes you lose words? "Uh.....Uh...whatever approach, this is Uh.....some aircraft..."well you get the pix...it doesn't affect one's typing skills, and you don't lose words all the time, I'm just kidding around some here ;-) and 200MG/day of Zoloft (TM) and blood pressure meds in the left seat( or any seat) in the pointy end of aircraft, Comml/Private, either fixed wing or Helo, and it's real hard to have to give it up cold (been on the ground since '98) but one doesn't forget such basic procedures, especially in such sensitive airspace.

This guy is a nutball, and frankly, if a couple of FA-18's hosed some 20 MM tracers in front of his prop, he deserved to fill his pants..... Darn, I would have loved to see some actual video, both from the FA-18 gun camera/HUD, and (I wish) from a "candid camera" in that 150 cockpit. The mix of the screams with the engine noise would be priceless.

Sometimes the system does work, after all.. I wonder what freq this idjit was "ignoring" on, and if he was squawking anything except 1200......

Keep the Faith for Freedom

Greg

273 posted on 05/11/2005 3:36:09 PM PDT by gwmoore (As the manual for the Russian Nagant revolver states: "Target Practice:'At the Deserter, FIRE' '')
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To: P3_Acoustic

LOL!


274 posted on 05/11/2005 3:42:24 PM PDT by Chuckster ("Silence is not golden. It is yellow" Senator Zell Miller)
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To: N. Theknow
What was the name of the Army base in Frederick?

Good old Camp Detrick, also known as "Detrick U" by the boys of the 9766th TSU 1951-53. "He who wears the Service Star shall never wear a battle scar".

275 posted on 05/11/2005 3:49:14 PM PDT by 19th LA Inf
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To: gwmoore
or some other nefarious individual (can't profile here, but you get the pic) doing the same thing as a dry run for another "for real" kamikaze attempt,
Then we'll see how well the Patriot 'SAMs' work then ...

(KNOW your air defense capability, then extrapolate to the expected result ...)

276 posted on 05/11/2005 4:12:18 PM PDT by _Jim (<--- Ann C. and Rush L. speak on gutless Liberals (RealAudio files))
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To: RSmithOpt
never see bush pilots flying them in Alaska.

IMNSHO a 180 or 182 is a bit light for bush work. Even a 172 is useless with floats- as a land plane you have to leave one seat empty if your tanks are full so add the floats and it won't lift much more than the pilot.

277 posted on 05/11/2005 4:25:12 PM PDT by Squawk 8888 (End dependence on foreign oil- put a Slowpoke in your basement)
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To: _Jim
Would this be the same Patriot Missile System that was allegedly operational on 9/10/01?
278 posted on 05/11/2005 4:29:20 PM PDT by jsbankston
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To: Spktyr

One accidental (or even proper) shootdown could do more damage than a wayward plane. Unleashing ordinance over a populated area has the potential for a lot of casualties. I'd rather have someone on the button who'd consider the consequences before making a decision.


279 posted on 05/11/2005 4:44:36 PM PDT by Squawk 8888 (End dependence on foreign oil- put a Slowpoke in your basement)
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To: _Jim
Good Evening, Jim,

Darn right......I do believe they will work quite well, as designed.... I just hope that the C3I folks have the intestinal fortitude to authorize release when such a scenario happens. I fear that those in authority will be too micromanaged, and bound by Political Correctness, and fear of lawsuits from the unavoidable collateral damage from the falling bits that they will make the always fatal mistake of "delayed decision"

There simply isn't enough time, given the distances involved, to become involved in a lengthy hand-ringing decision process. If you have a "hostile inbound", one simply has to make "x" number of radio calls, fire "x number of flares, allow a fighter to make a intercept pass, fire some warning shots, and if said "hostile" doesn't immediately do a 180,lower their gear (if said aircraft has retractable gear) and follow the intercept A/C to the designated airport for arrest/impoundment, then one commands "release". and the automatic sequencer takes over from that point. The stakes are too high, and the possible lethal area of munitions which can be carried in even the smallest of aircraft makes necessary a definitive destruct point, without recourse, as far away from the sensitive area as possible. The choice is simple, and one has to revert to common sense and training, and totally ignore polls, public opinion, and "Monday morning quarterbacking".

If someone screws up big time, then, in today's world, there simply is no wiggle room for second guessing, at least that is the way I was trained.

Unfortunately, in the real world of "all news all the time" and "instant polls". and the talking heads spewing nonsense about everything before they know anything, I sincerely doubt that instant, decisive, action is a real fact. I hope I'm wrong, and I see the result of a successful intercept/shootdown, of an actual terrorist threat on the news, to prove to the public that the danger exists, and we can successfully put a period to it.

Thanks for stating the exact view we all should have, and follow...

Keep the Faith for Freedom

Greg

280 posted on 05/11/2005 5:00:50 PM PDT by gwmoore (As the manual for the Russian Nagant revolver states: "Target Practice:'At the Deserter, FIRE' '')
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To: jsbankston
allegedly operational on 9/10/01?
Operational where?

You can't use what you haven't deployed.

281 posted on 05/11/2005 5:09:08 PM PDT by _Jim (<--- Ann C. and Rush L. speak on gutless Liberals (RealAudio files))
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To: gwmoore
There simply isn't enough time, given the distances involved, to become involved in a ...
You also are overlooking the fact that these targets have something called 'legacy' (they've been watched and tracked for awhile); especially the LARGER, faster moving targets (corporate jets, airliners et al) are identified on FAA and Joint Surveillance System (JSS) RADARS ... course and speed and A/C type are identified on consoles - if A/C type is unk the SPEED is the big indicator (Cessna 150's aren't speed demons as many ppl have testified). I suspect faster moving 'straying' traffic draws more attention than something as low and slow as a light, GA, two-seat 150 that could be 'taken down' by a pistol-packing traffic reporter in a helo.

Overall, behind closed doors, a LOT more is known situationally in real time than has even been described on these pages ...

282 posted on 05/11/2005 5:19:20 PM PDT by _Jim (<--- Ann C. and Rush L. speak on gutless Liberals (RealAudio files))
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To: _Jim
Exactly right, Jim,

I wasn't even thinking about that, just the situation that may or may not exist. Know about fast movers, etc., but was thinking mainly about "Political Correctness" and the "Gee Whiz, I'm gonna screw up my career" thought process that sometimes pervades WashDC.... That .05 sec of thinking about the next Promotion Board could cost a lot of lives.

We do, indeed, though , need more cost effective helos to take care of the 150's and their ilk, it's a lot easier, speed wise, than the difference between any fighter including a Harrier, and a helo, which has the inherent ability to make quick changes in airspeed, and to match airspeeds with a/c like a 150 doing at best, what 140KIAS? and that's pushing the heck out of it.......(hey, I've done things in 150's/152's(as well as a lot of other GA aircraft that Cessna (or the other GA mfgrs) never meant for them to do, and gotten away with it, and discovered that their published specs (including ceiling, were fantasy, and could be exceeded at will) but that comes under the heading of "don't try this at home", and "Don't ever try this yourself") I do admit having fun....yes, I had a 'chute and my helmet and O2 mask, complete with demand reg, followed Mil Regs on that(use over 10K') if I was doing any stupid altitude tricks......I will, however, refuse to disclose names, places, of other personnel who participated in other A/C who were just as fun-loving, and we never got nailed by Uncle Foxtrot Alfa Alfa for any of it (all pre- 9/11 of course, and nowhere near any controlled airspace, well, unless you consider 18K' a couple of times with no filing IFR, but well, we had fun ;-)

You are right about the radar, but the idea of helos is a darn good one... cheaper to operate for an intercept of small GA aircraft, and with any armed person,( a good door gunner?? Works for me!! could bring one down at will...... GOOD IDEA!!!!...

Thanks for jogging this Topamax induced moment ;-)

Greg

283 posted on 05/11/2005 5:47:23 PM PDT by gwmoore (As the manual for the Russian Nagant revolver states: "Target Practice:'At the Deserter, FIRE' '')
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To: Shermy

Hmmm. Good question. ;-)


284 posted on 05/11/2005 5:54:23 PM PDT by festus (The constitution may be flawed but its a whole lot better than what we have now.)
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To: lilylangtree
"Is he islamic?"

No. He knew how to land.

285 posted on 05/11/2005 6:01:34 PM PDT by yooper (If you don't know where you're going, any road will take you there......)
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To: Gunrunner2

Idiot???? As usual you are very free with your remarks and you have no more information than the rest of us. Typical...


286 posted on 05/11/2005 6:03:40 PM PDT by cynicom (<p)
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To: yooper

lol


287 posted on 05/11/2005 6:10:46 PM PDT by LibWhacker
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To: bootless

> He's at the Frederick Airport? Home base of AOPA.

Exactly. And don't you bet Boyer would have wanted to march down from his office and ream these guys out for undermining all the good work he's done on GA's image?


288 posted on 05/11/2005 6:21:04 PM PDT by MikeGranby
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To: gwmoore
You know, there is a LOT you can 'do' if you don't bother anybody, don't "show up an anybody's RADAR", don't cause harm to someone else's property or are 'discovered' to have lost your own life; the VAST majority of the rules exist to bring order to 'the masses' who would, without those restraints, attempt such 'acts' closer in to controlled air space, near citys, over towns et al ...

There one more aspect not considered so far; the ppl operating the PMBs have the advantage of eyes on the target and perhaps visual/radio reports from others in that unit; whereas we, plus the news mediots, plus the FAA and security at the WH and Capitol bldg are physically *blind* in such a real-time situation. The 'eyes on' aspect by the PMB personnel would make it a LOT easier to hit that 'launch' button expeditiously. Hey, if I was on duty at the launch console and I got the order from a recognized authority/chain of command figure, if verbal, I would ask once "are you sure" then pending the quick "affirmative" answer I would launch.

289 posted on 05/11/2005 6:22:12 PM PDT by _Jim (<--- Ann C. and Rush L. speak on gutless Liberals (RealAudio files))
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To: devolve

> Time to levy monster fines, loss of licenses, jail
> time, and confiscations aircraft of offenders -
> rented/leased or owned.

So if someone rents an aircraft and strays into the ADIZ, the owner of the airplane should suffer *why* exactly?


290 posted on 05/11/2005 6:25:30 PM PDT by MikeGranby
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To: devolve
The insurance premiums would prove an instant deterrent.

Yeah. We should kill GA with insurance premiums. Can't have anyone having fun or out enjoying themselves. They might stray offcourse and be considered a terrorist. Might as well ground EVERYBODY. Confiscate aircraft? Get real.

291 posted on 05/11/2005 6:55:43 PM PDT by Big Giant Head (I should change my tagline to "Big Giant Pancake on my Head")
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To: MikeGranby
And don't you bet Boyer would have wanted to march down from his office and ream these guys out for undermining all the good work he's done on GA's image?

That was one of my very first thoughts. I'll bet the good folks in the Communications Dept., and also at Be A Pilot, were mighty steamed today, too.

292 posted on 05/11/2005 7:12:53 PM PDT by bootless (Never Forget - And Never Again)
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To: yooper
"Is he islamic?"

No. He knew how to land.

ROFL! Best line of the day.

293 posted on 05/11/2005 8:11:03 PM PDT by Palladin (Proud to be a FReeper!)
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To: IonImplantGuru

Is there anything new about this out there? A name?

... are we seeing the beginning of socialist political terrorism?


294 posted on 05/11/2005 8:13:09 PM PDT by thoughtomator ("One cannot say that a law is right simply because it is a law.")
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To: yooper

that is a truly beautiful line... my compliments


295 posted on 05/11/2005 8:13:42 PM PDT by thoughtomator ("One cannot say that a law is right simply because it is a law.")
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To: bootless; Lazamataz; Frank_Discussion

It's something to see. The 52 is the trainer version with the two seats. His was built in the early 80s. They were built to do acrobatics and can fly inverted.

My understanding is that a lot of the one seat versions flew in Afghanistan.


296 posted on 05/11/2005 8:28:26 PM PDT by TC Rider (The United States Constitution 1791. All Rights Reserved.)
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To: purpleland

LOL!


297 posted on 05/11/2005 8:46:23 PM PDT by hummingbird ("If it wasn't for the insomnia, I could have gotten some sleep!")
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To: pa mom
Look out, they are going to be getting even whacker yet:

Amish Give Up - "This is Bull****," Elders Say (warning, graphic language)

Sorry, couldn't find the original on the original site. Just remembered seeing this.

298 posted on 05/11/2005 8:54:25 PM PDT by bluefish (Holding out for worthy tagline...)
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To: HairOfTheDog

As usual you're the lone voice of common sense in this vast wilderness - well almost.


299 posted on 05/11/2005 10:26:06 PM PDT by CarryaBigStick
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To: CyberAnt

Yes. . .agree.


300 posted on 05/11/2005 11:52:55 PM PDT by Gunrunner2
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