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A Critic Takes On the Logic of Female Orgasm
New York Times ^ | 5/17/05 | DINITIA SMITH

Posted on 05/17/2005 8:12:54 AM PDT by JAWs

Evolutionary scientists have never had difficulty explaining the male orgasm, closely tied as it is to reproduction.

But the Darwinian logic behind the female orgasm has remained elusive. Women can have sexual intercourse and even become pregnant - doing their part for the perpetuation of the species - without experiencing orgasm. So what is its evolutionary purpose?

Over the last four decades, scientists have come up with a variety of theories, arguing, for example, that orgasm encourages women to have sex and, therefore, reproduce or that it leads women to favor stronger and healthier men, maximizing their offspring's chances of survival.

But in a new book, Dr. Elisabeth A. Lloyd, a philosopher of science and professor of biology at Indiana University, takes on 20 leading theories and finds them wanting. The female orgasm, she argues in the book, "The Case of the Female Orgasm: Bias in the Science of Evolution," has no evolutionary function at all.

Rather, Dr. Lloyd says the most convincing theory is one put forward in 1979 by Dr. Donald Symons, an anthropologist.

That theory holds that female orgasms are simply artifacts - a byproduct of the parallel development of male and female embryos in the first eight or nine weeks of life.

In that early period, the nerve and tissue pathways are laid down for various reflexes, including the orgasm, Dr. Lloyd said. As development progresses, male hormones saturate the embryo, and sexuality is defined.

In boys, the penis develops, along with the potential to have orgasms and ejaculate, while "females get the nerve pathways for orgasm by initially having the same body plan."

Nipples in men are similarly vestigial, Dr. Lloyd pointed out.

While nipples in woman serve a purpose, male nipples appear to be simply left over from the initial stage of embryonic development.

The female orgasm, she said, "is for fun."

(Excerpt) Read more at nytimes.com ...


TOPICS: Miscellaneous
KEYWORDS: biology; dynamohum; evolution; orgasm; science; sex; whypostthis; women
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To: tiamat

And I was waiting for you to tell me to ask my Wife!


51 posted on 05/17/2005 8:57:17 AM PDT by BBell
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To: BBell

LOL!


52 posted on 05/17/2005 8:58:29 AM PDT by tiamat (Can't sleep...clowns will get me..can't sleep...clowns will get me...can't sleep....clowns will get)
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To: JAWs

One question arises reading this article - who cares ?

;-)


53 posted on 05/17/2005 8:59:20 AM PDT by patience+plumpudding (I didn't loose my mind - it was mine to give away)
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To: JAWs

One question arises reading this article - who cares ?

;-)


54 posted on 05/17/2005 8:59:22 AM PDT by patience+plumpudding (I didn't loose my mind - it was mine to give away)
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To: JAWs

Somebody please post a picture of "When Harry Met Sally".


55 posted on 05/17/2005 9:01:35 AM PDT by sparkomatic (This happens every time one of these floozies starts poontangin' around with those show folk fags!)
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To: Bluegrass Conservative

[[Dude, I think you may be doing something wrong.]]

Actually, if she is having more fun, he must be doing something right.


56 posted on 05/17/2005 9:03:12 AM PDT by lifelongsoldier (A woman can never have enough of a man who makes her have more fun.)
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To: JAWs



It's our reward for having sex with men. lol


57 posted on 05/17/2005 9:06:44 AM PDT by SouthernFreebird
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To: najida
I'm sure this thread will get plenty of responses without any help from me.

I could add something but I've been here too long to get banned while posting on a woman's orgasm thread.....

58 posted on 05/17/2005 9:07:17 AM PDT by #1CTYankee (New tag-line under-construction.)
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To: HamiltonJay

It may have been that $50 bill you gave her.......


59 posted on 05/17/2005 9:10:47 AM PDT by brwnsuga (Proud, Black, Conservative!)
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To: SouthernFreebird

"It's our reward for having sex with men. lol"

Amen, sister!

Just kidding, I like orgasms, with or without my husband.


60 posted on 05/17/2005 9:13:58 AM PDT by brwnsuga (Proud, Black, Conservative!)
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To: Maria S

Here here.

Always the problem when science tries to explain creation, no creativity on thepart of the pocket protecter crowd.

"...male and female created he them.."

nuff said!

Top sends


61 posted on 05/17/2005 9:14:08 AM PDT by petro45acp (SUPPORT/BE YOUR LOCAL SHEEPDOG!!!!)
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To: discostu
...thus if the timing is right they move the sperm of men who are more "skilled" closer to the egg giving them an advantage over less "desirable" men.

That ideal "timing" requires the man to ejaculate before the woman achieves orgasm and then to continue until she does shortly thereafter.

That's a tight window to work in...so to speak.

62 posted on 05/17/2005 9:16:09 AM PDT by PBRSTREETGANG
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To: JAWs

So guys, if you are ever having sex with a female evolutionist, just reminder her that you have no obligation to satisfy her, and go strait to the TV and a beer after you have done your thing.


63 posted on 05/17/2005 9:16:45 AM PDT by Rodney King (No, we can't all just get along.)
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To: JAWs

Female orgasm probably does aid in the survival of the species, but what I find to be a much more interesting question from an evolutionary standpoint is, 'why don't females have musculature equivalent to males?' It would confer an obvious and significant advantage in both their survival and that of their children and it is also obviously something that the human body is capable of. I wouldn't even think that it would take very many generations for this trait to evolve. The fact that it hasn't is very interesting.


64 posted on 05/17/2005 9:21:34 AM PDT by elmer fudd
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To: brwnsuga

Never paid cash for sex.... But there is no doubt the most expensive thing you'll ever get involved with in your life is women.


65 posted on 05/17/2005 9:24:53 AM PDT by HamiltonJay
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To: Argh

No actually we have been faking it, just as you always feared.


66 posted on 05/17/2005 9:25:08 AM PDT by lastchance (Hug your babies.)
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To: All

How stupid are these people. An obvious answer is that women will prefer a male and will have sex more often with a male who can induce orgasm. Anything that provides pleasure will be done more often.


67 posted on 05/17/2005 9:27:08 AM PDT by BadAndy (Specializing in unnecessarily harsh comments.)
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To: lastchance

Wimmen fake them? When they can have real ones?


68 posted on 05/17/2005 9:27:09 AM PDT by Argh
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To: PBRSTREETGANG

Some women tend to "trigger" when the man does his business if he's gotten her close.

Of course when you sit down and consider all the thing that have to go right to bring a child into the world, it's all a pretty tight window to work in. The thermo-dynamic miracle of life as Alan Moore called it.


69 posted on 05/17/2005 9:30:21 AM PDT by discostu (quis custodiet ipsos custodes)
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To: Argh

Oh we have real ones too. But when it's late at night and we know the alarm will ring at 6 AM and y'all show no sign of reaching a conclusion. It is often very time saving to ooh and aah and sigh and wiggle at the right time. Think of it as encouragement to inspire y'all to reach your goal.
Cause men sometimes do not understand we can enjoy the journey even when we don't reach the destination.


70 posted on 05/17/2005 9:31:46 AM PDT by lastchance (Hug your babies.)
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To: Paradox

From Jay and Silent Bob Strike Back, "The clits real the clits real now the female orgasm that's the myth."


71 posted on 05/17/2005 9:32:12 AM PDT by Mr. Blonde (You know, Happy Time Harry, just being around you kinda makes me want to die.)
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To: JAWs
The female orgasm, she said, "is for fun

Wow....I did NOT KNOW THAT.

Thank God for intellectuals, they are so smart.

72 posted on 05/17/2005 9:35:07 AM PDT by PISANO (We will not tire......We will not falter.......We will NOT FAIL!!! .........GW Bush [Oct 2001])
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To: lastchance
Well, I guess it beats the heck out of massaging the prostate gland...

I was pulling your leg, I guess you knew that, and you're a very good sport, Miss Chance!

73 posted on 05/17/2005 9:40:31 AM PDT by Argh
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To: Argh

Yep I figured all was in good fun. But hey how about we volunteer to be part of the research time for this evolutionary biologist or whatever the heck she is called. I am sure my husband would appreciate being a volunteer. Anything for science is my motto. Just think this gives a whole new meaning to the phrase " are we having fun yet?"


74 posted on 05/17/2005 9:44:11 AM PDT by lastchance (Hug your babies.)
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To: lastchance

I'd be delighted to volunteer with you, Miss Chance, but frankly I'd find the presence of your husband somewhat of a damper.


75 posted on 05/17/2005 9:47:11 AM PDT by Argh
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To: Argh
I was pulling your leg...

I don't think that'll get the job done.

76 posted on 05/17/2005 9:55:48 AM PDT by PBRSTREETGANG
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To: JAWs
Good grief these people are stupid... female have orgasms for the same reason men have orgasms... besides the pleasures that motives both

Sex has as it's reason to procreated

Not to be crude but that requires getting the male sperm to the female egg... and besides the fact sperm can swim...both male and female orgasms help get the sperm as close as possible to the egg so the swim is short...

The male orgasms contractions expels the sperm out and the female orgasms contractions sweeps the sperm up and in to the egg and helps stimulate the male

(Sex is better when you understand the propose of the mechanism your trying to trigger:)

77 posted on 05/17/2005 10:00:59 AM PDT by tophat9000 (When the State ASSUMES death...It makes an ASH out of you and me)
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To: PBRSTREETGANG; lastchance

Damn! Back to the drawing board...


78 posted on 05/17/2005 10:03:12 AM PDT by Argh
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To: Maria S

Pretty elementary to me: God gave this to us both for a reason, and it has pretty much zero to do with procreation.


79 posted on 05/17/2005 11:07:08 AM PDT by AFPhys ((.Praying for President Bush, our troops, their families, and all my American neighbors..))
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To: Argh

oH dear me, I had meant to emphasize that it would be totally above board. You with your honey and I with mine.
There is just too long a line at the confessional for me to do anything too naughty.


80 posted on 05/17/2005 12:36:42 PM PDT by lastchance (Hug your babies.)
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To: lastchance

Dang! Well, I don't have a honey, and we don't want the confessional line getting any longer, do we? :^)


81 posted on 05/17/2005 12:44:14 PM PDT by Argh
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To: brwnsuga



LOL...you know it had to be a woman that invented the shower massage. We can always find a way to work around a man if need be.


82 posted on 05/17/2005 1:25:28 PM PDT by SouthernFreebird
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To: tiamat

Sorry - I've been out of pocket for just over 24 hours. I'm back now and am amused by this story....

Did you hear, a woman's orgasm is just for fun!!!

I love the story about a man and woman discussing which person enjoys sex more. The woman says, "when your ear itches, and you stick your finger in it to scratch it - which feels better? Your ear or your finger?"

;-)

I'm baaaacck...


83 posted on 05/17/2005 4:29:00 PM PDT by Dashing Dasher ("You're my favorite Freeper. Ever" - Skooz 5/11/05 -- Beyond and Miss Behave agree!)
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To: Argh

"Wimmen have orgasms?"


Apparently not with you....

;-)


84 posted on 05/17/2005 4:32:56 PM PDT by Dashing Dasher ("You're my favorite Freeper. Ever" - Skooz 5/11/05 -- Beyond and Miss Behave agree!)
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To: JAWs
Ah hell, I always knew I was going to get banned one day so here goes:

Question: Why do women fake orgasms?

Answer: Because they think we care.

85 posted on 05/17/2005 4:52:50 PM PDT by Melas
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To: Psycho_Bunny

I don't suppose you can cite some sources for this, because frankly, I think you're either just wrong, or making it up.


86 posted on 05/17/2005 4:55:26 PM PDT by Melas
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To: tiamat

Oxytocin is released in both sexes by nipple stim I believe.


87 posted on 05/17/2005 4:56:54 PM PDT by Melas
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To: discostu

I was waiting for someone to state the obvious. Sex is by design pleasurable for humans so it compells us to do it, and that furthers the species. Animals have instincts, that lead to copulation when the female is in heat, we don't. Instead of the instinct we get 24/7 sex drives.


88 posted on 05/17/2005 4:58:59 PM PDT by Melas
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To: JAWs

Female orgasms strengthen the bond between the couple giving their children a better chance at a two-parent family. This is a significant adaptive advantage to the species and seems perfectly consistent with Darwinian theory.


89 posted on 05/17/2005 5:02:35 PM PDT by muir_redwoods (Free Sirhan Sirhan, after all, the bastard who killed Mary Jo Kopeckne is walking around free)
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To: JAWs
That theory holds that female orgasms are simply artifacts ...

Appendix, coccyx, those may be artifacts. Reproductive behavior is no place for artifacts to be found lounging about.

If a scholar is a library's way of creating another library, then a baby is an orgasm's way of producing another generation of orgasms.

90 posted on 05/17/2005 5:13:17 PM PDT by Plutarch
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To: Plutarch; JAWs
That theory holds that female orgasms are simply artifacts ...
Appendix, coccyx, those may be artifacts.

If the feminists have their way, the penis will be added to the artififacts list. After all, they have turkey basters.

91 posted on 05/17/2005 5:25:00 PM PDT by Veto! (Opinions Freely Dispensed as Advice)
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To: HamiltonJay

Thanks for sharing your dream journal with the rest of us :)


92 posted on 05/17/2005 5:29:12 PM PDT by YCTHouston (Come and take it.)
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To: Dashing Dasher

Their loss.


93 posted on 05/18/2005 1:30:02 AM PDT by Argh
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To: Argh

He he he!!!


94 posted on 05/18/2005 7:52:17 AM PDT by Dashing Dasher ("You're my favorite Freeper. Ever" - Skooz 5/11/05 -- Beyond and Miss Behave agree!)
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