Predators & Pornography. A disturbing link.

NRO ^ | May 19, 2005, 8:15 a.m. | By Penny Nance

[Modernman]

BTW, when I was in high-school (an all-boys school) in the 1980s, we had one kid who admitted that he masturbated--he was encouraged by one of our "theology" professors who said he thought masturbation was "beautiful." From that moment on, both the student and the teacher were utterly ostricized. I reckon that still happens among most boys.

You'd be wrong.

[Modernman]

The sooner the libertarians are banned from FR the better.

Dream on. JimRob has said that he agrees with the majority of libertarian positions.

[cyborg]

Yes I'm sure the founding fathers died for the right of perverts to view porn morning, noon and night.

[QuiMundus]

I have an idea, let's legislate that everyone behave just like you then see how many concur that they are truly happy.

Sounds like a good movie plot. If everyone were like me of course the world would be a much better place. No children would be abused. No wives would be murdered, battered, neglected or cheated on. There would be no income tax evasion or other fraud. Everyone who heed traffic laws. Come to think of it the world would be a whole heck of a lot smarter too! And generally better looking as well! And most of all, there would be no lack of humility! So. Does that satisfy your thirst for sarcasm - or should I go on... ;)

[Liberal Classic]

I'm just thinking about all the extra free time I'd have.

[Modernman]

Yes I'm sure the founding fathers died for the right of perverts to view porn morning, noon and night.

The founding fathers understood that liberty might well lead to free people doing things that the majority don't like. In a free society, you have to take the good with the bad.

[Aquinasfan]

It is not inconsistent with libertarian ideology to support controlling America's borders.

Not generally. But selectively prohibiting Mohammedan immigration would be contrary to libertarian principles, right?

[Antoninus]

Assuming for a moment that it is a sin,

No assumption necessary. It is a sin. In fact, I think St. Paul uses the Greek word "pornea" (immorality or lasciviousness) when describing the list of vices that will keep you out of heaven.

God gave us all free will, and whether or not to view pornography--and sin--is a moral choice for all of us to make; as such, Jesus tells us that we should not judge others for the moral choices that they make.

You make the mistake of conflating the discouragement of people from bad behavior with "judgment." That's not surprising as it's the exact line the Jesuits tried to peddle on me. I didn't buy it. You, apparently did buy it. If I were you, I'd return it--it's defective.

If nothing else, the Gospels make that clear. Assuming, however, that viewing pornography is not a sin--because it just simply isn't sinful or Christianity is wrong--

Only the most radical, mutations of Christianty have taught that lascivious behavior isn't sinful. Back to the drawing board, friend.

As for St. Paul, he is not Jesus.

Well, if you are still a Catholic--no mean feat if you went through Jesuit indoctrination/education--you know that canonically, St. Paul's writing is considered inspired by the Holy Spirit and on par with that of the Gospel writers.

[Modernman]

But selectively prohibiting Mohammedan immigration would be contrary to libertarian principles, right?

Not really. One of the legitimate roles of government is to protect the citizenry from outside threats. A good case can be made that the citizenry would be safer if Muslims were not allowed to immigrate to this country and if non-citizen Muslims already here were deported.

[Antoninus]

I wrote: In your opinion, then, from the time the Constitution was written until the Cultural Revolution 1960s, we lived with laws that were patently unconstitutional.

You wrote: Pretty much. There were many instances where the actions of American government did not live up to the Constitution.

There you have it, folks. A product of our post-1960s educational system.

Current Communist Goals, ca. 1964

17. Get control of the schools. Use them as transmission belts for socialism and current Communist propaganda. Soften the curriculum. Get control of teachers' associations. Put the party line in textbooks.

[Antoninus]

No, freedom is the ability to do whatever you want so long as you do not harm the person or property of another without their consent.

According to the great prophet John Stuart Mill. I don't subscribe to that particular religion.

[Aquinasfan]

The sooner the libertarians are banned from FR the better.

I don't have much use for them myself. But since they constitute a growing segment of society, we're going to have to make common cause with them when we can, while trying to convert them. Hopefully they'll see the error of their ways. The error at the heart of libertarianism is the belief that people have a God-given right to do evil. This supposed right is usually phrased as "people have a right to do what they please, as long as they don't hurt anyone else." The slogan is diabolically clever.

[Modernman]

Pretty much. There were many instances where the actions of American government did not live up to the Constitution.

There you have it, folks. A product of our post-1960s educational system.

So, in your opinion, the American government has always acted in a manner consistent with the Constitution and its ideals? Okay. I'll remember that the next time some branch of government bans school prayer or something similar.

[Antoninus]

If a state government passes a law that legalizes slavery, do you think that it should go unchallenged?

You don't know the difference between the Amendment process (legitimate) and rule by judicial fiat (tyrannical), do you?

[Antoninus]

No, it is part of being a free people.

So basically, we weren't "free" until the courts granted us the right to own, view, and distribute porn. Is that it? I guess those who are still restricted by age-of-consent laws will never be "free" under the tyrannical system you endorse... /sarcasm

[JeffAtlanta]

You don't know the difference between the Amendment process (legitimate) and rule by judicial fiat (tyrannical), do you?

No offense, but you throw out some sort of twisted point and when someone shows you that your logic is flawed, you go off on some weird tangent.

If a state passed a law legalizing slavery, the courts would rule it unconstitutional and that would be the end of that. There is already an amendment prohibiting slavery so another one wouldn't help.

[Antoninus]

The founding fathers understood that liberty might well lead to free people doing things that the majority don't like. In a free society, you have to take the good with the bad.

Right. That's why Thomas Jefferson signed a Virginia bill assigning castration as the punishment for sodomy. Good libertarian deist that he was.

[Publius Valerius]

First of all, I've made clear that I'm not a Catholic.

Second, if you buy the notion that Jesus forgives you of your sins, there aren't any sins that will keep you from heaven--ask for forgiveness, and you've got it. Whether you're a porn watcher, child molester, or serial axe murderer.

I don't make any mistake of confusion--you are making a moral judgment of others when you say that what they are doing is WRONG. Wrong is a moral judgment. Viewing pornography, in and of itself, is not evil. It is not "malum in se." It does not harm others. The very act of looking at pornography, in and of itself, does not harm society; thus, any opposition to it is on moral grounds--that is the type of judgment that Jesus tells us that we should not engage in.

The Gospel is crystal clear: why do you look at the speck in your brother's eye but do not consider the plank in your own? Jesus brought a NEW message when he came, and he was careful to warn about people who were so caught up in religious traditions that they missed the forest for the trees. They will not get passage to heaven.

Remember Matthew 9:11-12: The Pharisees said to the disciples, "Why does your teacher eat with the tax collectors and the sinners?" When Jesus heard that, he said to them, "those who are well have no need of a physician, but the sick do."

[JeffAtlanta]

That's why Thomas Jefferson signed a Virginia bill assigning castration as the punishment for sodomy. Good libertarian deist that he was.

He also owned slaves. The founding fathers weren't gods.

[Publius Valerius]

is the belief that people have a God-given right to do evil.

You do. It's called free will. God gave it to us.

Whether society has an interest in punishing certain actions is a different story.