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Atheists say it's time to 'push back' fundamentalism
Bakersfield Californian ^ | 5/22/05 | Greg Sandoval - AP

Posted on 05/22/2005 6:53:03 PM PDT by NormsRevenge

SAN FRANCISCO (AP) - To the uninformed, this weekend gathering here may have seemed like a church revival, full of zeal and fervor. But worshipping God was most decidedly not part of the agenda.

The attendees of the "All Atheists Weekend" gathered to discuss what they call the rise of fundamentalism in the U.S. and the blurring of lines between church and state.

Attendees also took time to view documentaries that question the historical accuracy of the Bible - and to hear lectures about the dangers of religious icons on public property and problems with President Bush's so-called "faith-based initiative," which seeks to give religious groups equal footing in seeking federal grants to provide social services.

Organizers said they expected more than 250 people to take part in the event, which featured a lecture by Ellen Johnson, the president of American Atheists. The gathering began Friday and continued through Sunday at various spots throughout the city.

The religious right's increasing involvement in U.S. politics has triggered an angry backlash among the godless, say Bay area atheist groups, five of which organized the weekend event.

"It's time for us to push back," said psychologist Jaime Arcila, 52, of San Francisco, who was accompanied by his two children, Javier, 15, and Amanda, 12, in a tiny theater Saturday night just south of downtown.

Arcila, who is not an official member of any atheist group, said he was prompted to attend Saturday's showing of "The God Who Wasn't There," along with about 100 other people, because of what he sees as a growing intolerance in the U.S. for people with alternative views and lifestyles.

Arcila, who was raised by Catholic parents, said the nation needs more dialogue about "peace, tolerance, justice, and love," not exclusion based on a difference of ideas.

Ali, a 36-year-old native Iranian, agreed. He declined to give his last name because he said he wants to return to his Muslim-dominated homeland someday and fears that he could be persecuted should he be identified as an atheist.

Ali said he knows all too well the effects of religious fundamentalism on a society from his own experiences in his native country.

Nations that accept only one set of values or beliefs are "restrictive and stifling," Ali said.

"I was a Muslim but stopped believing after a lot of pain and after a lot of thought," he said. "Being here at this event is encouraging me not to be afraid. It strengthens me and helps me stand up for what I believe."

But just how tolerant of Christianity and other religions are the atheists?

"We don't hate Christians," said David Fitzgerald, 40, an insurance broker and member of San Francisco Atheists. "People in this country are free to believe in whatever they want."

Nonetheless, during the Saturday night movie, the crowd booed and hissed when a photo of Pat Robertson was displayed on the screen.

Robertson, the founder of the Christian Broadcasting Network and a former U.S. presidential candidate, is a leader in the efforts by some religious groups to return America and its government to Christian values.

Fitzgerald offered no apologies.

"Robertson and other Theocrats scare the hell out of us," Fitzgerald said. "They want to turn a democracy into a theocracy. Even Christians are afraid of that."


TOPICS: Constitution/Conservatism; Crime/Corruption; Culture/Society; Extended News; Government; Politics/Elections; US: California
KEYWORDS: antichristian; antitheist; atheism; atheists; cary; christianity; culturewar; culturewars; fundamentalism; liberalbigots; pushback; religion; religiousintolerance; time
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To: balls
"This was confirmed once again when I awoke to "The News about Religion" on the BBC World Service this morning. Every single story involved violence and one religion against another. Religion sucks."

Why do you wake up listening to a commie network like the BBC (BritishBullsh**Corporation)?

I think that THAT is the question that YOU need to answer for us.

Das Kapital got a bit too boring for you, eh?

101 posted on 05/22/2005 11:13:52 PM PDT by Al Simmons (God Ain't Jive - Mott The Hoople)
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To: bobbdobbs

Ah yes. Mr. Anti-religion cult member, the Freeper Sub-Genius.

Keep boasting of your anti-God agenda.

You are a bigot pushing your own anti-faith. We DO have the right to proclaim our faith in this nation. Don't silence us, you prankster.


102 posted on 05/23/2005 12:50:27 AM PDT by weegee ("Do you want them to write a piece about how great the military is?" Elizabeth Bumiller - NY Times)
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To: Avenger

Scientology IS a religion now (although originally it was a "science"). You must have slept though the Clinton years when John Travolta bent the Bent One's ear.


103 posted on 05/23/2005 12:53:13 AM PDT by weegee ("Do you want them to write a piece about how great the military is?" Elizabeth Bumiller - NY Times)
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To: NormsRevenge; All
Told ya so...

Early warning shots-- the War against Religion...

104 posted on 05/23/2005 12:53:37 AM PDT by backhoe (-30-)
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To: NormsRevenge
Hitler rails at godlessness in Mein Kampf.
105 posted on 05/23/2005 12:56:53 AM PDT by risk
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To: Al Simmons
"I think you MEANT to say "God created man with free will; some men used their free will to follow satan into eternal damnation."
You're welcome."

That's exactly what I said. God created the atheist.
106 posted on 05/23/2005 5:00:43 AM PDT by chapin2500 (Revenge is a dish best served cold.)
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To: rdb3
Between the agnostic and atheist positions, the agnostic position is the [more] rational.

I do not see how you come to that conclusion, unless you consider "reason" to possess some form of extra-sensory perception as would be needed if one were to allow for the existence of a god as a real entity.

"Agnostic" was a term made up by Thomas Huxley at the end of the 19th century. I suppose that it is a way for the irreligious to avoid being characterized (and condemned) as atheists, but IMHO that is a timorous concession to irrational superstition.

107 posted on 05/23/2005 9:50:10 AM PDT by Nicholas Conradin (If you are not disquieted by "One nation under God," try "One nation under Allah.")
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To: Northern Yankee
We don't hate Christians," "People in this country are free to believe in whatever they want."

the crowd booed and hissed when a photo of Pat Robertson was displayed on the screen.

LOL, consistency isn't the liberals cup of tea, huh?

108 posted on 05/23/2005 10:43:11 AM PDT by Victoria Delsoul
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To: kstewskis
A muslim who has been spiritually neutered. What a concept.

But he said he wants to return to his Muslim-dominated homeland. If that's the case, I have the feeling his spiritual castration won't last too long.

109 posted on 05/23/2005 10:44:57 AM PDT by Victoria Delsoul
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To: Victoria Delsoul
But he said he wants to return to his Muslim-dominated homeland. If that's the case, I have the feeling his spiritual castration won't last too long.

yes, but it sounds like he wants to return there alive . He'd like to continue living there in good health, all parts intact, someday.

110 posted on 05/23/2005 12:47:31 PM PDT by kstewskis ("Lord, let me not be deceived..." ks)
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To: kstewskis
He'd like to continue living there in good health, all parts intact, someday.

LOL, hopefully.

111 posted on 05/23/2005 1:56:48 PM PDT by Victoria Delsoul
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To: Victoria Delsoul
LOL, consistency isn't the liberals cup of tea, huh?.

Ahhh... could this be the same group that claims to be for women's rights, but are quick to attack educated, strong women like Condi Rice, Janice Brown, Priscilla Owens,and Terri Schindler Shiavo?

They've lost any credibility they might have once had.

112 posted on 05/23/2005 6:58:02 PM PDT by Northern Yankee (Habemus Papum)
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To: Northern Yankee
I agree with you.

Good to see you, Jay.

113 posted on 05/23/2005 6:59:31 PM PDT by Victoria Delsoul
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To: Victoria Delsoul
Hi Victoria...

I am stunned... did I see the Republicans cave on Judicial nominees?

Goes to show you the only faith we can trust in is God. I can't believe these cowards? I used to admire McCain. I have nothing but contempt for this guy. What a coward...

Sorry to vent, but I can't believe what I am seeing.

114 posted on 05/23/2005 7:13:38 PM PDT by Northern Yankee (Habemus Papum)
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To: Northern Yankee
I'm mad.

This deal is ridiculous. It benefits the Democrats, and we're back to zero.

They can filibuster whenever they want and call it “extraordinary circumstances." In the meantime the Republicans won't be able to do a thing about it.

I know about McCain for the last 8 years, and I don't trust him.

115 posted on 05/23/2005 7:21:56 PM PDT by Victoria Delsoul
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To: Victoria Delsoul
Ya know... I find myself pulling further away from politics lately, and putting more energy in my faith. There's comfort there beyond words, and I know I won't feel betrayed in the end.

Many things, including the death of Terri Shiavo, the death JP the Great, and the election of Pope Benedict continue to strengthen my Catholic beliefs.

I will not compromise on those, and will continue to further my resolve of what my faith calls me to do.

It is so very nice to see you again.

School is still in session, so I best be getting ready for bed.

God bless, and good night, Victoria.

116 posted on 05/23/2005 7:36:11 PM PDT by Northern Yankee (Habemus Papum)
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To: Northern Yankee

Don't go too far, Jay. We need as many conservatives as we can get. We're in the minority, but we need to stick together or we'll be defeated .


117 posted on 05/23/2005 7:42:47 PM PDT by Victoria Delsoul
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To: NormsRevenge
Ali, a 36-year-old native Iranian, agreed. He declined to give his last name because he said he wants to return to his Muslim-dominated homeland someday and fears that he could be persecuted should he be identified as an atheist.

There is a BS story. Another LIE in the newspapers, as usual...

118 posted on 05/23/2005 8:25:32 PM PDT by Sir Francis Dashwood (LET'S ROLL!)
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To: thompsonsjkc; odoso; animoveritas; St. Johann Tetzel; DaveTesla; mercygrace; ...

Moral Absolutes Ping.

How special, the atheists are out to convert everyone else. Are they going to bring back burning at the stake?


Let me know if you want on/off this pinglist.


119 posted on 05/23/2005 10:24:50 PM PDT by little jeremiah (Resisting evil is our duty or we are as responsible as those promoting it.)
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To: Victoria Delsoul
Don't go too far, Jay.

Never too far. I will fight for what I know to be right and true. For that you can be assured!

120 posted on 05/24/2005 3:59:24 AM PDT by Northern Yankee (Habemus Papum)
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To: NormsRevenge
Organizers said they expected more than 250 people to take part in the event

Sounds like a meeting of the village atheists. Looking back at the twentieth century, we should beware of any atheistic cultural movement, even a tiny one like this. But the more common problem today is Christians who live as practical atheists. Jesus preferred hostility to Himself to indifference to Himself.

121 posted on 05/24/2005 5:28:09 AM PDT by Aquinasfan (Isaiah 22:22, Rev 3:7, Mat 16:19)
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To: NormsRevenge

God Proves That God Does Not Exist

• Philosophy & Religion
OMG @ 2:29 pm



I studied theology and philosophy. We had to learn about all the great thinkers throughout the ages, and what they had to say about God. Basically there are 2 schools of thought: One says our lives are predetermined by a higher power, and the other one says that everything we do is up to us, without a higher power guiding us.

I have always found the arguments against the existance of a god far more convincing than the arguments for the existence of a god.

A smart man once said “extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof.” In other words, I might take your word for it if you tell me it rained yesterday, but you’re gonna have to show me some proof if you’re going to claim it rained yesterday because a unicorn peed on a rainbow.

Basically those who claim there is a god don’t have one single convincing argument. Whenever I debate this stuff with them, the bottom line from their end is: “If there is no god, then where did all this come from?”

That is not an argument, it’s a question. And the question is illogical if you think it through.

Why do they ask that question? Because they can’t wrap their minds around the idea that all the stuff around us, the universe, has always existed. It was never created. It never started. It was always there.

Then the pro-god crowd replies: “That’s impossible! Nothing can have existed forever. It must have started at one point. It must have been created at some point. It must have been created by god!”

That’s when I ask them: “So, when was god created?”

And they reply: “God always existed. He was never created. He never started. He was always there.”

See the flaw in that logic?

There is absolutely no reason why there needs to be a god, because the definition of god itself is a paradox. If it is possible that something called “god” can exist forever, without ever having been created, then that very same possibility applies to something called “universe". So the very idea that god has existed “forever without being created", at the very same time eliminates the need for a god altogether.

It simply does not make any kind of sense to refuse to believe that the universe could have existed forever (no creator!), but at the same time believe that god could have existed forever.

Bottom-line: If you believe it is possible god existed forever, you just proved that god was completely unnecessary, because the universe could have just aswell existed forever, without there ever being a god creating it.


122 posted on 05/24/2005 7:11:52 AM PDT by jaime1007
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To: NormsRevenge
Nations that accept only one set of values or beliefs are "restrictive and stifling," Ali said.

Ali is right, but the US is not that kind of nation. The atheists are upset that religious people are agitating to be included in the public square, but those religious folks would not be out there if the atheists had not convinced Federal Judges to legislate from the bench and remove any semblance of religion from public places. The atheists created this problem for themselves. They're gonna have to deal with it.

Many religious folks frankly don't care how other live their lives, as long as they keep it to themselves and don't try to force others to accept their proclivities, or worse, try to teach kids that those activities are normal.

123 posted on 05/25/2005 11:07:25 PM PDT by SuziQ
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