Judge Upholds NY Smoking Bans

AP ^ | 5/25/05 | Larry Neumeister

[Gabz]

Alas you are correct.

Thank you for your concern, I am feeling a bit better today - my apologies for some of my incoherrent ramblings yesterday, I knew what I was trying to say, but it just wasn't coming out the way it should have :)

[TKDietz]

Everyone is ripping on this judge but he didn't do anything but make a correct statement of the present law on the matter. There is no recognized fundamental right to smoke tobacco. The judge was just following the law, which is exactly what he is supposed to do. That does not make him a liberal judge. It doesn't make him a thug. It is not something he can or should be impeached for, or arrested and imprisoned as at least one poster has called for on this thread. The problem here is not the judge, it's the stupid laws, which were passed by some legislative body or enacted through voter referendum. I don't know how they came to be, but those to blame are the ones who passed them.

[Protagoras]

No apologies necessary.

[t_skoz]

I live in a "free" part of New York State, or at least as "free" as you can be in NYS. I also only patronize bars that let you openly flaunt the smoking ban. There are more than a few bars around here that will let you smoke openly.

One bar I used to go to quite frequently, has a wraparound bar, and at the far end is a door leading to the fire escape. They designated that the "pot smoking section" as long as the outside door was open. Because the fines for smoking pot were just about the same as smoking cigarettes, they figured they might as well have a full-on protest. There were even off-duty NYS Troopers who frequented the place, they wanted to smoke their cigars while enjoying their drinks, so they never messed with anyone.

One time there was a kid about 22 who said he worked at the Health Department and that he was going to report the place to his boss. Someone threatened to throw him off the balcony and he left quickly after that. I never did see him around again...

It may sound drastic, but think about what our Founders did to some tea in Boston Harbor. If you don't stand up for your rights sooner or later, you'll wake up one day with nothing.

[Gabz]

I haven't lived in Delaware for 2 years, but I still know every bar I can walk into in the state that is openly ignoring the smoking ban there.

Several of my more enterprising bar-owner friends really stuck it to the state.......they gave up their licenses for selling tobacco cigarettes and now only sell non-tobacco ones which are perfectly legal products. and are perfectly legal to smoke in any "public place" in Delaware because the smoking ban is specific in stating it is the smoking of "TOBACCO" that is prohibited, nothing else. (marijana is a seperate issue)

[TKDietz]

That's one of the big problems with passing stupid nanny state laws. People are going to say "F" you to the government and break them anyway. Some of the police will not even attempt to enforce the laws and some will even break them themselves. And just as you saw in the bar with the "pot smoking section," people are going to figure they're breaking one law, they might as push it a little further. Next comes the coke snorting room and the prostitute pick up section, then maybe the "pop a cap in the ass of the MF'r who won't get out of my face" section behind the bar. It just creates general disrespect for the laws and those who enforce them that will only lead to more lawlessness. Nanny state fanatics don't get this. They want laws governing every aspect of our lives. The more laws they get enacted, the less people are going to respect the law in general.

[Protagoras]

they gave up their licenses for selling tobacco cigarettes and now only sell non-tobacco ones which are perfectly legal products

What the heck is in cigarette like that?

[Gabz]

What the heck is in cigarette like that?

I was afraid someone was going to ask me that :~) Dried, cured leaves of various plants, from lettuse to tea. Different brands have different components. They're packaged just like any other store bought brand, except they do not contain tobacco, nor all the additives the tobacco companies put into theirs.

[freepatriot32]

Libertarian ping.To be added or removed from my ping list freepmail me or post a message here

So I guess the RIGHT to life liberty and the PURSIUT OF HAPPINESS are actually just privileges endowed to us by our judges and not inalienable rights endowed to us by our creator? I'm glad this illiterate genius in a black robe set me straight on that or I would have gone m y whole life thinking that we area free people that have individual rights.But now I know we are just chattle owned by the state and city governments.No wonder new york is outlawing all gun ownership.

[freepatriot32]

ping

[Protagoras]

UGH

[TKDietz]

You know if a bar was selling non-tobacco cigarettes that weren't illegal to smoke in the bar, they'd have a pretty good defense if people were smoking tobacco cigarettes and they were accused of allowing people to violate the tobacco ban in their bar. They could just say they didn't know people were smoking tobacco cigarettes. They thought they were the legal herbal smokes.

I wonder if this crossed the minds of those running the bars that have started selling the legal herbal cigarettes?

[CSM]

""Individuals have no 'fundamental' constitutional right to smoke tobacco," the judge wrote."

More proof that we are no longer a Republic, instead we are a common good with no individual rights.

[CSM]

What is your opinion, ping.....

[DaoPian]

How would this judge rule on a private cigar aficionado's club? Clearly, there should be a objectively applicable separation between public and private activities. This is the fundamental balance that we seek in civil society. Smoking is a great case study for this struggle, but only because the activity itself necessarily invades the privacy of our other fellow citizens at times - the air we breathe or the money in our wallets. If all the smoke from a cigarette remained inside the smoker and there were absolutely zero health risks, then this wouldn't be an issue. Anyone have any realistic solutions to this issue?

[CSM]

"Did you really think we want those laws observed?" said Dr. Ferris. "We want them to be broken. You'd better get it straight that it's not a bunch of boy scouts you're up against... We're after power and we mean it... There's no way to rule innocent men. The only power any government has is the power to crack down on criminals. Well, when there aren't enough criminals one makes them. One declares so many things to be a crime that it becomes impossible for men to live without breaking laws. Who wants a nation of law-abiding citizens? What's there in that for anyone? But just pass the kind of laws that can neither be observed nor enforced or objectively interpreted – and you create a nation of law-breakers – and then you cash in on guilt. Now that's the system, Mr. Reardon, that's the game, and once you understand it, you'll be
much easier to deal with." ('Atlas Shrugged' 1957)

[CSM]

"Anyone have any realistic solutions to this issue?"

Yes. Don't enter private property that allows smoking. Use your own money and time to invest in a business that does not allow smoking, and caters to other preferences you might have. Let the market do the work.

[DaoPian]

Speaking of the marketplace. Why don't all the smokers rise up in arms with the heavy taxation on ciggy butts these days? The government could never give up suckling on that nipple. Imagine if they slapped such a thing on beer? Yikes!

[jimt]

I don't think that's in the Constitution.

No, but this is.

The enumeration in the Constitution, of certain rights, shall not be construed to deny or disparage others retained by the people.

Our would be masters need some forceful reminding of this.

[CSM]

Many are, by finding alternative sources for tobacco. The states are now criminalizing that behaviour.