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Going For Galt's Gulch
The Autonomist ^ | 05/27/05 | David MacGregor

Posted on 05/27/2005 3:55:57 PM PDT by Hank Kerchief

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1 posted on 05/27/2005 3:56:01 PM PDT by Hank Kerchief
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To: Hank Kerchief
This article by David MacGregor is a practical application of the principles first suggested in the Regi Firehammer article, Atlas Shrugged: A Model for Individualist Revolution.

2 posted on 05/27/2005 3:58:27 PM PDT by Hank Kerchief
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To: Hank Kerchief; Dagny Taggart

I'll meet you there, if I can ever get Dagny out of the beauty parlor.


3 posted on 05/27/2005 4:01:39 PM PDT by Hank Rearden (Never allow anyone who could only get a government job attempt to tell you how to run your life.)
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To: Hank Kerchief

One question about Ayn Rand:
Where are the children?


4 posted on 05/27/2005 4:05:26 PM PDT by Vicomte13 (Et alors?)
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To: Hank Rearden; eddie willers

Eddie Willers, too?


5 posted on 05/27/2005 4:10:13 PM PDT by skinkinthegrass (Just because you're paranoid, doesn't mean they aren't out to get you :^)
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To: Hank Kerchief
"Who is John Galt, Anyway?"
6 posted on 05/27/2005 4:10:22 PM PDT by noname07718
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To: stylecouncilor

ping


7 posted on 05/27/2005 4:11:52 PM PDT by windcliff
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To: Hank Kerchief

I was wondering who serves as the garbage men and sewer workers in Galt's Gulch? Even free, technologically gifted supermen produce human waste.


8 posted on 05/27/2005 4:12:37 PM PDT by Colonel Kangaroo
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To: skinkinthegrass

If you insist.


9 posted on 05/27/2005 4:14:04 PM PDT by Hank Rearden (Never allow anyone who could only get a government job attempt to tell you how to run your life.)
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To: Vicomte13

Where are the pets?


10 posted on 05/27/2005 4:14:48 PM PDT by since1868
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To: Colonel Kangaroo
I was wondering who serves as the garbage men and sewer workers in Galt's Gulch?

The morons who are currently "serving the public" as Deputy Assistant Undersecretaries in the Department of Redundancy Department.

And they're getting gigantic pay cut.

11 posted on 05/27/2005 4:15:45 PM PDT by Hank Rearden (Never allow anyone who could only get a government job attempt to tell you how to run your life.)
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Is there a brewery in Galt's Gulch?


12 posted on 05/27/2005 4:16:06 PM PDT by Honcho Bongs
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To: since1868

Pets and kids...Looters to the core...


13 posted on 05/27/2005 4:18:41 PM PDT by Vicomte13 (Et alors?)
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To: Hank Kerchief
It isn't exactly free space, though. Someone has to pay for the infrastructure, the routers, the pipes, the servers, the service providers. Someone had to create the thing. In this sense an objectivist who depends on it "just being there" is in the same position as any of the moochers in Atlas Shrugged.

That is not to say that the Internet isn't a commodity that, like any other commodity, cannot be paid for by the user. But it often is not. Take, for example, the fellow who programmed and maintains this particular FR web "space." Who pays him? Well, the users do. Some of us, anyway. And are we paying him an amount commensurate with what we receive? And if not, are those of us who do not also in the position of the moochers?

14 posted on 05/27/2005 4:24:26 PM PDT by Billthedrill
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To: Vicomte13

Pets and kids there just so altruistic.


15 posted on 05/27/2005 4:25:07 PM PDT by since1868
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To: since1868

Pets and kids just take and take.
Looters! Moochers to the core!

That's why there are none in Ayn Rand's worlds (either her novelistic ones or her real life: she died childless).


16 posted on 05/27/2005 4:30:49 PM PDT by Vicomte13 (Et alors?)
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To: Vicomte13

And from what I read with noone at her bedside.


17 posted on 05/27/2005 4:33:12 PM PDT by since1868
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To: noname07718
"Who is John Galt, Anyway?"

..the antithesis to Shrillary, sKerry and their Ilk....all looters.

18 posted on 05/27/2005 4:34:34 PM PDT by skinkinthegrass (Just because you're paranoid, doesn't mean they aren't out to get you :^)
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To: Hank Kerchief

I like the cigarettes, $$$$$.


19 posted on 05/27/2005 4:39:52 PM PDT by blam
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To: skinkinthegrass

I think I'll die in a train.


20 posted on 05/27/2005 4:41:19 PM PDT by eddie willers
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To: Hank Kerchief

"Atlas Shrugged" should be a must read for any elected official. As relevant today if not more, than when it was written. I'm a little partial though....


21 posted on 05/27/2005 4:44:00 PM PDT by John_Galt518 (Get off my phone you big dope! - Mark Levin (aka the Great One))
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To: Vicomte13
Ayn Rand had pets of her own, especially one cat who frequently accompanied her when writing.

There are children in Atlas Shrugged, and a very important passage has to do with a mother and her children in Galt's Gulch.

Hank

22 posted on 05/27/2005 4:50:19 PM PDT by Hank Kerchief
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To: Hank Kerchief

This is an infomercial....


23 posted on 05/27/2005 4:59:47 PM PDT by myself6 (Nazi = socialist , democrat=socialist , therefore democrat = Nazi)
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To: Hank Kerchief
Galt's Gulch portrays what could be possible in a rational society—and in each new generation of readers it inspires hope, and shines like a beacon pointing to a different world.

It has also inspired speculation as to how such a society may be created in reality. ---

--- Freedom-loving individuals would simply love a place to call their "own".
Trouble is, such a place does not exist—and appears to be impossible to create, under the existing notions of national sovereignty.


______________________________________


Under the principles outlined in the US Constitution, any County in any State of the Union could declare itself to be a "Galts Gulch" in spirit, and eventually gain quite a bit of autonomy in reality, under the provisions of "Home Rule". -- Here is a typical example of such a charter.

Home Rule Charter for Allegheny County
Address:http://www.county.allegheny.pa.us/charter21/


A county that adopts a home rule charter has the ability to amend its governmental organization and powers to suit its needs.
A home rule charter is, in essence, a local constitution.

Home rule gives control over the structure and operations of county government to County voters.

Home rule does not set a county adrift from the rest of the state.
A County is still subject to restrictions found in the United States and Pennsylvania Constitutions and in state laws applicable to all counties.

"Counties without home rule can do only those things specifically authorized by state law; however, home rule counties can do anything not specifically forbidden by state or federal law."


Of course the real kicker would come when a group like minded 'Galts Gulchers' took over political control of a County, and insisted that ALL Fed & State officials strictly obeyed our US Constitution while in the county.
24 posted on 05/27/2005 5:07:12 PM PDT by P_A_I
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To: myself6
This is an infomercial....

We believe in free enterprise and free trade. Fundamental to all free transactions between individuals is information. Call it what you like--I call it liberty and the exercise of free speech. Hank

25 posted on 05/27/2005 5:20:01 PM PDT by Hank Kerchief
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To: Vicomte13; Hank Kerchief
"One question about Ayn Rand: Where are the children?"

Anyone on this thread ever hear of the Flint School? There were a lot of kids there. Ayn Rand's philosophy of objectivism was taught there for many years and a lot of the students keep in touch even today, (almost 25 years after the school closed).
26 posted on 05/27/2005 5:26:14 PM PDT by DocRock
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To: eddie willers
:D *Good Train Music* "..Riding on, The City Of New Orleans... Good Morning America How Are You..." */Good Train music*...from Arlo Guthie
27 posted on 05/27/2005 5:37:23 PM PDT by skinkinthegrass (Just because you're paranoid, doesn't mean they aren't out to get you :^)
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To: Hank Rearden

Well Hank, c'mon over. I may be the only current resident of Galts Gulch around here. The county requires anyone with a driveway over 300' long to have it named, and the owner may choose the name. Hence, I live in Galts Gulch. Ya'All are always welcome to drop in & share a brew, which we unfortunately must import.


28 posted on 05/27/2005 7:22:18 PM PDT by diogenes ghost
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To: Hank Kerchief

There is no Galt's gulch.
And if there was the government would find it and Waco them all.

You will be assimilated.


29 posted on 05/27/2005 7:31:56 PM PDT by the gillman@blacklagoon.com (M.A.D. but with a share of the profits.)
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To: glock rocks; chemainus; Andonius_99; sonserae; ShadowDancer; TigerTale; bronxboy; dpwiener; ...

Atlas Shrugged ping


30 posted on 05/27/2005 7:50:14 PM PDT by FreeKeys (Happy 100th birthday, Miss Rand: 1905-2005)
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To: Vicomte13
One question about Ayn Rand: Where are the children?

I'm an Ayn Rand fan with kids and grandkids, and I think your question is incredibly, bizarrely, outrageously inane, let alone irrelevant. Rand put out an ENORMOUS amount of work; A.S. alone took 12 years of 16-hours-a-day intensity, and she explained that, since such productivity was her goal, that it would have been unwise, let alone unfair, to have kids in the face of all that.

I believe that she has brought over 4 million Americans (including myself) over from the Dark Side -- (and W. would have lost if she hadn't). So DO try to develop a little realistic perspective, and appreciate the positive, won't you?

31 posted on 05/27/2005 7:57:06 PM PDT by FreeKeys (Happy 100th birthday, Miss Rand: 1905-2005)
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To: Hank Kerchief

I just go to Las Vegas...it's as close to Galt's Gulch as we're ever going to get in America today. ;)


32 posted on 05/27/2005 7:59:20 PM PDT by Mr. Jeeves ("Violence never settles anything." Genghis Khan, 1162-1227)
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To: Mr. Jeeves
Las Vegas...it's as close to Galt's Gulch as we're ever going to get in America today. ;)

There is definitely a "shrugging" feeling in Vegas, especially when they clean me out at the tables.

33 posted on 05/27/2005 8:02:10 PM PDT by KC_for_Freedom (Sailing the highways of America, and loving it.)
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To: Vicomte13

Children are not inconsistent with Objectivism.

There are many rewards that come from having children-- financial, emotional, spiritual. They are an investment that pays off over time, and then a whole bunch at maturity. It is not a totally safe bet, but people will continue to try- we are wired that way.

Now, Ayn Rand and Objectivism would certainly have a problem with the Looters taking someone's money to pay for someone else's children. But as long as each family is taking care of their own, there is no problem.

I also do not see a big problem between Objectivism and charitable giving, as long as it is freely given. Religion is also outside of the realm of her philosophy.

Just because Ayn Rand was a childless atheist that had some big personal issues does not negate her basic philosophy which holds that man should not be coerced at gunpoint to give to others.


34 posted on 05/27/2005 8:37:01 PM PDT by RobFromGa (Send Bolton to the UN!)
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To: RobFromGa

Man has to be coerced at gunpoint to obey law.
Otherwise there is no law.


35 posted on 05/27/2005 8:42:18 PM PDT by Vicomte13 (Et alors?)
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To: skinkinthegrass

So is George Gershwin's "Concerto In F"

He said he was inspired writing that music by the sounds of the "Broadway Limited" when he was riding it during that compositions difficult birth.


36 posted on 05/27/2005 8:52:59 PM PDT by Chef Dajuan (Its a pork fat thing!)
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To: FreeKeys
You did not answer the question.
WHERE ARE THE CHILDREN?
I consider the book "Atlas Shrugged" to be deeply provocative, and I would recommend it as a core classic novel to be read by everyone who pursues a thorough basic education.
It, and the Author, is limited in its scope, if one tries to twist it into a rational, working philosophy.
37 posted on 05/27/2005 9:13:48 PM PDT by sarasmom
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To: Vicomte13
Man has to be coerced at gunpoint to obey law.

Rand said the law should be to protect man's real rights. You don't have to coerce a rational man to leave his neighbors alone, just as he would want to be left alone. The law should PROTECT against the initiation of force, fraud, or coercion in general, NOT TO DO THE INITIATING.

BTW, I notice you have posted nothing on your profile page; I'm suspicious of people who post nothing personal, let alone nothing at all. Could you be a troll in disguise? An agent-provacateur? A puddin'-stick?

38 posted on 05/27/2005 9:19:12 PM PDT by FreeKeys (Running Condi in '08 will destroy the anti-American moonbat wing of the DemocRAT party for good.)
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To: Vicomte13
You obviously haven't read "We the Living" yet. It's almost an autobiography. A view into a society crushed by a communist revolution.
39 posted on 05/27/2005 9:28:07 PM PDT by Myrddin
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To: KC_for_Freedom
There is definitely a "shrugging" feeling in Vegas, especially when they clean me out at the tables.

My local taco shop puts cute little quips on their sign each week. One that fits your situation:

They say money talks. All mine says is Adios.

40 posted on 05/27/2005 9:32:41 PM PDT by Myrddin
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To: Hank Kerchief
A man-made Utopia, now there's an oxymoron
41 posted on 05/27/2005 9:37:13 PM PDT by bluepistolero
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To: FreeKeys
I'm suspicious of people who post nothing personal, let alone nothing at all. Could you be a troll in disguise? An agent-provacateur? A puddin'-stick?

Funny. Until very recently, I didn't have anything on my profile page either and I've been here since shortly after the invention of the wheel.

42 posted on 05/27/2005 9:39:00 PM PDT by zeugma (Come to the Dark Side...... We have cookies!)
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To: FreeKeys

In Michigan, those who live in the northern part of their lower peninsula are sometimes called "trolls", because they live "under the [Mackinac] Bridge.
I once lived in northern Michigan for a time, so in that sense I am, or at least was, a troll.

Otherwise, I have posted far and wide here for some time on many topics, particularly things concerning France and Catholic religion.

I have little to say on my profile page.
I do not wish to reveal who I am, but I do not wish to lie either.


43 posted on 05/27/2005 9:43:16 PM PDT by Vicomte13 (Et alors?)
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To: FreeKeys

Thanks for the ping.


44 posted on 05/27/2005 9:58:11 PM PDT by PGalt
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Comment #45 Removed by Moderator

Comment #46 Removed by Moderator

To: sarasmom
It, and the Author, is limited in its scope, if one tries to twist it into a rational, working philosophy

I have thought a lot about this question lately since my life is hardly one that Rand would have respected, but I have a lot of self-respect and I admire Rand.

I think of Rand's philosophy the way a lot of folks here think about their religion.

She showed what we can do when we are our best. As human beings we sometimes fail to meet that challenge. That dosen't make the goal any less appropriate.

Rand clearly identified correct and proper moral behavior.

A good and great society would be modeled on such ideals.

We have fallen so far from where Rand (and our Founding Fathers) wanted us to be sometimes it is hard to see the trees, the forest, anything at all. :-(
47 posted on 05/28/2005 1:55:20 AM PDT by cgbg (When do I wake up from this socialist nightmare?)
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To: Powerclam
Is there a brewery in Galt's Gulch?

If there isn't, then start one. If there is and you think you can do better, compete with it.

Sorry, didn't know you were humor impaired.

48 posted on 05/28/2005 2:55:44 AM PDT by Honcho Bongs
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To: Hank Kerchief

If five or more objectivists could actually agree on a location for a Galt's Gulch, they would immediately have to set up tribunals for the daily excommunications of the not-objectivist-enough among them (Tibor Micham, David Kelly, Nathaniel and Barbara Branden, etc.).


49 posted on 05/28/2005 3:07:30 AM PDT by Larry Lucido
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To: FreeKeys
I think the poster you were responding to was referring to the absence of children in her literature, not in her personal life. I have noticed this in Ayn Rand's books myself. It seems that none of her protagonists ever have children. I'm thinking AS mentioned Hank Reardon having children but now I can't remember for sure. Of course, not having children herself, Ayn Rand probably didn't have the frame of reference to be able to write much about them.

Some of Ayn's protagonists like Dagny Taggert remind me of the self-obsessed, childless, over-achieving Yuppies we have today who can be found in Starbucks all over America sipping lattes while banging away on their laptops and working into the night.

Not that there's anything wrong with that...

50 posted on 05/28/2005 3:21:24 AM PDT by SamAdams76 (Don't You Think This Outlaw Bit's Done Got Out Of Hand?)
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