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Going For Galt's Gulch
The Autonomist ^ | 05/27/05 | David MacGregor

Posted on 05/27/2005 3:55:57 PM PDT by Hank Kerchief

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To: Powerclam
Apparently, you haven't read Atlas Shrugged...

No I haven't. I sincerely appreciate you telling me how that works in Rand's world. Rand in some ways was a refreshing change from the socialist tide during the times she wrote. But she was a militant atheist whose atheism was such an integral part of her philosophy that I wouldn't trust her if she asserted that the grass is green.

51 posted on 05/28/2005 4:12:45 AM PDT by Colonel Kangaroo
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Comment #52 Removed by Moderator

To: sarasmom
You did not answer the question.

I made the SPECIFIC DECISION that the pathetic question was DEFINITELY NOT worth dignifying with an straight answer, or couldn't you tell?

Rand discusses children the Chapter, "The Comprachicos" in This book and elsewhere in other books of essays.

As far as the novels go, Rand's book, The Romantic Manifesto points out that her school of fictional literature does NOT write about life "as it is for everyday people," (as the depressing "naturalist" school of literature does) but life "as it could be and ought to be" (including for those who decide for themselves to choose enormous goals and the vigorous life of productivity and virtue). So they are ALLEGORIES NOT snapshots. Can you appreciate the difference?

And who the heck ARE you; where's YOUR profile page?

53 posted on 05/28/2005 6:57:58 AM PDT by FreeKeys (Running Condi in '08 will destroy the anti-American moonbat wing of the DemocRAT party for good.)
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To: Larry Lucido
If five or more objectivists could actually agree on a location for a Galt's Gulch, they would immediately have to set up tribunals for the daily excommunications

If five or more Christians in 1490 Spain would set up tribunals they would not only excommunicate, but sentence suspected non-believers to death. If five or more Christians in 1692 Massachusetts would set up tribunals, they would not only excommunicate, but sentence accused non-believers to death.

Oh, wait; THEY DID!

Oh, wait; NOT ALL CHRISTIANS DO THAT KIND OF STUFF.

Oh, wait; what am I responding to this kind of silliness for?

My apologies for wasting bandwidth.

54 posted on 05/28/2005 7:07:38 AM PDT by FreeKeys (Running Condi in '08 will destroy the anti-American moonbat wing of the DemocRAT party for good.)
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Comment #55 Removed by Moderator

To: SamAdams76
I'm thinking AS mentioned Hank Reardon having children but now I can't remember for sure.

Hank had no kids nor did Francisco or J.G., himself.

And of course, Dagny was childless.

Ironically, Akston considered Galt, Francisco & the Danneskjold his sons. Of course he never had to change their diapers or tell them bedtime stories.

56 posted on 05/28/2005 8:05:02 AM PDT by Tribune7
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To: Powerclam
Is there a brewery in Galt's Gulch?

If there isn't, then start one. If there is and you think you can do better, compete with it.

Sorry, didn't know you were humor impaired.

Maybe you're just not as funny as you think you are...

Well, in the new spirit of senatorial compromise, I'll try to be funnier if you try to be more polite.

57 posted on 05/28/2005 9:13:55 AM PDT by Honcho Bongs
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To: Myrddin

To be sure. When I play using a system, I lose my money systematically.


58 posted on 05/28/2005 9:15:25 AM PDT by KC_for_Freedom (Sailing the highways of America, and loving it.)
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To: A. Pole

Ping


59 posted on 05/28/2005 9:17:59 AM PDT by Nowhere Man (Lutheran, Conservative, Neo-Victorian/Edwardian, Michael Savage in '08! - DeCAFTA-nate CAFTA!)
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To: Hank Kerchief

Hank, thanks for the ping! Good article.


60 posted on 05/28/2005 10:54:17 AM PDT by UnklGene
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Comment #61 Removed by Moderator

To: FreeKeys
This article is a typical secondhander's exaggerating advertisement starting with the claim that "internet is like an alternative society" in light of what had been written prior in the article. After that it is nothing more than a typical get rich quick and avoid taxes advertisement. In fact, the entire article is an insult to all the freedom loving readers at FreeRepublic.
62 posted on 05/28/2005 3:17:04 PM PDT by jackbob
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To: Colonel Kangaroo
I was wondering who serves as the garbage men and sewer workers in Galt's Gulch? Even free, technologically gifted supermen produce human waste.

If you want to see a city breakdown quickly, stop the pickup of garbage. While it's been many, many years since I read Atlas Shrugged, I believe that he was getting everyone who society depended on and who was good at what they did. But I could be wrong.

Mark

63 posted on 05/28/2005 3:20:50 PM PDT by MarkL (I've got a fever, and the only prescription is MORE COWBELL!!!)
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To: FreeKeys; Willie Green; Wolfie; ex-snook; Jhoffa_; FITZ; arete; FreedomPoster; Red Jones; ...
A.S. alone took 12 years of 16-hours-a-day intensity, and she explained that, since such productivity was her goal, that it would have been unwise, let alone unfair, to have kids in the face of all that.

I guess the Randian supermen/superwomen would rather leave the task of raising children to the stupid and unproductive breeders.

BTW, there are many better books writen in much shorter time by people with children. I feel sorry for Mrs. O'Connor.

64 posted on 05/28/2005 3:29:56 PM PDT by A. Pole (Mandarin Meng-tzu: "The duty of the ruler is to ensure the prosperous livelihood of his subjects.")
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To: the gillman@blacklagoon.com
There is no Galt's gulch. And if there was the government would find it and Waco them all.

You forgot about the invisiblity shields. Ayn Rand came from Russia and she must have been so impressed by the Russian story of invisible city Kitezh that she decided to create atheistic version of it.


65 posted on 05/28/2005 3:36:54 PM PDT by A. Pole (Mandarin Meng-tzu: "The duty of the ruler is to ensure the prosperous livelihood of his subjects.")
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To: jackbob

Good point.


66 posted on 05/28/2005 6:25:55 PM PDT by FreeKeys ("Hey, everyone makes misteaks." -- James Taranto)
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To: Powerclam
Is there a brewery in Galt's Gulch?

If there isn't, then start one. If there is and you think you can do better, compete with it.

Sorry, didn't know you were humor impaired.

Maybe you're just not as funny as you think you are...

Well, in the new spirit of senatorial compromise, I'll try to be funnier if you try to be more polite.

Excuse you, but you were the first to be impolite in this exchange. But, in the "spirit of compromise", I'll be less anal if you'll be less rectal.

If you don't even know how you come across there isn't much point in continuing this. But you seem like one of those "last word" kind of guys so go ahead with your last shot. Personally, I'm moving on to more interesting things.

67 posted on 05/28/2005 6:34:21 PM PDT by Honcho Bongs
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To: A. Pole
BTW, there are many better books writen in much shorter time by people with children. I feel sorry for Mrs. O'Connor.

I can think up of one right off the bat, J.K. Rowling with her series on Harry Potter. I believe she has 2 or 3 children IIRC, too lazy to google, almost time for bed anyhoo. B-)
68 posted on 05/28/2005 10:27:05 PM PDT by Nowhere Man (Lutheran, Conservative, Neo-Victorian/Edwardian, Michael Savage in '08! - DeCAFTA-nate CAFTA!)
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To: A. Pole
You forgot about the invisiblity shields. Ayn Rand came from Russia and she must have been so impressed by the Russian story of invisible city Kitezh that she decided to create atheistic version of it.

IIRC, I think Dagny's plane got too close to Galt's Gulch, her engine conked out, probably due to the electromagnetic interference (EMI) from the invisibility field interfered with the ignition system. I got the impression the field was generated with a lot of power, ala "The Philadelphia Experiment," and it worked much the same way using high intensity RF (radio frequency) fields. I think Galt's Gulch would have its cover blown at some point, with all that EMI, someone, most likely the FCC, would be snooping around and then things would happen after that.

A side note, I'm an amateur radio operator and into electronics so I'm weighing in on the technical side.
69 posted on 05/28/2005 10:37:47 PM PDT by Nowhere Man (Lutheran, Conservative, Neo-Victorian/Edwardian, Michael Savage in '08! - DeCAFTA-nate CAFTA!)
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To: Hank Kerchief
Atlas Shrugged: One Hour Later
70 posted on 05/29/2005 7:00:32 AM PDT by B-Chan (Catholic. Monarchist. Texan. Any questions?)
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To: Hank Kerchief; Hank Rearden; Dagny Taggart; FreeKeys; John_Galt518; diogenes ghost; PGalt
'Atlas Shrugged' is listed as the 2nd most influential book of all time.

Here's a sidebar from USA Today's article: Scandals lead execs to 'Atlas Shrugged' which attempts to prove that Ayn Rand's philosophy was behind the Enron Tyco, and Worldcom scandals ...

Influential books

71 posted on 05/29/2005 1:57:44 PM PDT by JohnathanRGalt (---- Fight Islamist CyberTerror at: http://haganah.org.il/haganah/ ----)
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To: Colonel Kangaroo
"I was wondering who serves as the garbage men and sewer workers in Galt's Gulch? Even free, technologically gifted supermen produce human waste."

Anyone who takes pride in his work would be welcome at Galt's Gulch...at least that is what I took from the book (the only book I have read/enjoyed multiple times)

72 posted on 05/29/2005 2:01:51 PM PDT by gorush (Exterminate the Moops!)
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To: B-Chan
I love the cartoon, says it all and it had me laughing so hard. Here is another one showing the inspiration for "The Fountainhead."

The Fountainhead
73 posted on 05/29/2005 3:07:33 PM PDT by Nowhere Man (Lutheran, Conservative, Neo-Victorian/Edwardian, Michael Savage in '08! - DeCAFTA-nate CAFTA!)
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To: Nowhere Man

LOL!

In case anyone cares, here's my two cents: Ayn Rand was an awful writer, and her philosophy is unchristian and incompatible with human nature.

That is all.


74 posted on 05/29/2005 4:00:35 PM PDT by B-Chan (Catholic. Monarchist. Texan. Any questions?)
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To: B-Chan; A. Pole

I can't remember who posted that drawing of "The Fountainhead." I was wondering if it was you or maybe A. Pole (pinging you) who posted it. I do agree with you on Ayn Rand though plus her version of utopia working well has about as much of a chance as Karl Marx's utopian world working well, we have proof of that already.


75 posted on 05/29/2005 4:12:59 PM PDT by Nowhere Man (Lutheran, Conservative, Neo-Victorian/Edwardian, Michael Savage in '08! - DeCAFTA-nate CAFTA!)
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To: Hank Kerchief
it has the capacity to be as private as you want it to be

Talk about an alternate reality. Numerous combinations of just three letters can beat PGP!

NOTHING on the net is private. Public encryption is sufficient only against the public. States are not restrained by law, economics or technology.

76 posted on 05/29/2005 4:35:26 PM PDT by antidisestablishment (Our people perish through lack of wisdom, but they are content in their ignorance.)
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To: antidisestablishment
Public encryption is sufficient only against the public. States are not restrained by law, economics or technology.

You mean they can use rubber-hose cryptanalysis?

77 posted on 05/29/2005 4:47:20 PM PDT by A. Pole (Mandarin Meng-tzu: "The duty of the ruler is to ensure the prosperous livelihood of his subjects.")
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To: FreeKeys

LOL!
Unable to answer a simple question and quite irate that it was even asked!
Check your own six, you are quite vulnerable to any and all simle attacks.


78 posted on 05/29/2005 5:48:44 PM PDT by sarasmom
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To: Hank Kerchief
"Galt's Gulch" always exemplified to me the errors promoted by objectivism. "Atlas Shrugged" is all about how commies want to ruin civilization, and what ingenious plan do the objectivists come up with in response? They shrug their shoulders and let the commies win. Real smart.
79 posted on 05/29/2005 5:57:44 PM PDT by Tailgunner Joe
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To: gorush
Best that I can remember, John Galt himself was the one working on the sewers and such. He was specifically in charge of the electricity and it wouldn't be much of a stretch to believe that he was running the other utilities as well. Sewers and water treatment plants require a fair amount of motor power at certain points, thereby also making him the best qualified. He described himself as the local handyman. His main job of course was running and maintaining the power systems, so he probably contracted out the labor rather quickly to someone else. He also had that physics course he was teaching (50 dollars gold for the subscription.)

Children are addressed in the book, since Dagny meets two as well as their mother. The mom says a few pithy sentences that points out the Objectivist view of kids, which others on this board have already mentioned. Many discussions of specific issues such as children are only alluded, although they are intentionally alluded, since the book is already over a thousand pages long. She assumes that the reader is intelligent and can fill in the rest of the discussion, so she just touches on the broad outline. Reading the book all the way through will answer nearly all of your questions.
80 posted on 05/29/2005 6:08:40 PM PDT by Netheron
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To: Netheron
"Reading the book all the way through will answer nearly all of your questions."

As I said I have read it numerous times, I believe you have confused me with the person to whom I was responding.

81 posted on 05/29/2005 6:14:31 PM PDT by gorush (Exterminate the Moops!)
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To: A. Pole

LOL! That is one method I suppose. ;)


82 posted on 05/29/2005 6:33:04 PM PDT by antidisestablishment (Our people perish through lack of wisdom, but they are content in their ignorance.)
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To: Honcho Bongs

"Is there a brewery in Galt's Gulch?"

Yes, I'm running it.


83 posted on 05/29/2005 6:40:33 PM PDT by dljordan
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To: Tailgunner Joe

"Atlas Shrugged" is all about how commies want to ruin civilization"

I'm willing to bet you've not read this book.


84 posted on 05/29/2005 6:43:46 PM PDT by Lurker 50001
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To: Hank Kerchief

What, no cheap floozies???


85 posted on 05/29/2005 6:45:27 PM PDT by The Las Vegas Hoodlum
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To: Lurker 50001

The good part of the book is Rand's criticisms of the left. What she offers as an alternative is where she comes up short.


86 posted on 05/29/2005 7:17:02 PM PDT by Tailgunner Joe
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To: Tailgunner Joe
what ingenious plan do the objectivists come up with in response? They shrug their shoulders and let the commies win.

... and the Libertarians would allow Galt's Gulch to be overrun by an unlimited number of immigrants who would then vote in socialism.

87 posted on 05/29/2005 8:08:17 PM PDT by SandyB
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To: sarasmom
Unable to answer a simple question and quite irate that it was even asked! Check your own six, you are quite vulnerable to any and all simle attacks.

Well, at least I'll give you an A for tenacity (to go along with your Fs in epistemology, logic and coherence).

88 posted on 05/30/2005 9:55:45 AM PDT by FreeKeys (SAVE YOUR FAVORITE WEB PAGES TO DISK BEFORE THEY'RE TORN DOWN BY MCCAIN-FEINGOLD)
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To: Tailgunner Joe

"The good part of the book is Rand's criticisms of the left"

No, she treats the left and the right, as we know them, with equal disdain. Her main thrust in the book was about the evils of communism. What torques most conservatives about her work, is she went after the mystics, those who preach the word... the Jim Jones', the Tammy Fayes, and Jim Bakers.

Of course we all know Jim Jones was a good guy except for that little koolaid incident, and the Bakers were pretty good people if you over look a little corruption.

The other thing that seems to hit home is the laws issue, that there is no gain in ruling honest men, that the government must pass enough laws to make most of the population criminal in order to extort money from them.

"What she offers as an alternative is where she comes up short."

And just what does she offer as an alternative?

I still say YOU have not read this book.

Lurker


89 posted on 05/30/2005 5:42:00 PM PDT by Lurker 50001
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To: Lurker 50001
I read the book almost twenty years ago. My memory may be a little rusty. Why do you think I haven't read it? Because I said it's about how commies want to ruin civilization? Isn't it? Or is it just that no one who had really read such an obviously illuminating text could ever disagree with it?

What torques most conservatives about her work, is she went after the mystics, those who preach the word... the Jim Jones', the Tammy Fayes, and Jim Bakers.

Being religious does not make one conservative, but then nor does being an atheist. Conservatives definitely have loyalty to things other than themselves. Their nations for example. Is loyalty to one's nation a quality appreciated by objectivists? It is by me.

And just what does she offer as an alternative?

Anarcho-syndicalism.

90 posted on 05/30/2005 5:56:40 PM PDT by Tailgunner Joe
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To: Tailgunner Joe

I do not think Ayn wanted to put industry under the control of labor, but I think she wanted to put the government under control and make the individual supreme in dealing with the government...wait where have I heard this before?

"Why do you think I haven't read it? Because I said it's about how commies want to ruin civilization?"

That's about it, I'm hard pressed to see how anyone could come to that conclusion after reading Atlas Shrugged.

"Conservatives definitely have loyalty to things other than themselves. Their nations for example."

Loyalty to their nation...how do you choose, is it the nation that was given to us, or the nation we have now, or the nation it will be in the future? It would seem that your loyalty at some point along this path would be considered betrayal.


91 posted on 05/30/2005 6:26:33 PM PDT by Lurker 50001
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To: Lurker 50001
Her main thrust in the book was about the evils of communism.

So commies don't want to ruin civilization?

92 posted on 05/30/2005 6:55:19 PM PDT by Tailgunner Joe
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To: Tailgunner Joe

The commies had already ruined civilization so badly by the time that John Galt et. al. came on the scene that the current one was unrecoverable. The members of Galt's Gulch were destroying the old one to create a new one. The old one was inevitably going to destroy itself no matter what they did. The only question was "Should people hang on in a futile effort to preserve it, or take the best of the old and reboot the system?"


93 posted on 05/31/2005 4:50:24 AM PDT by Netheron
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To: Netheron

That's called defeatism. I'm not interested in such a pessimistic philosophy. I want conservatives to take this country back and undo the damage socialism has done to it. I do not expect them to join the communist cause of destroying it. Commies also believe in the "inevitability" of their predictions and that the old rotten civilization must be torn down before the new utopia can be created. That's just anarchist nonsense.


94 posted on 05/31/2005 10:55:17 AM PDT by Tailgunner Joe
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To: Colonel Kangaroo
I was wondering who serves as the garbage men and sewer workers in Galt's Gulch?

My guess is that technologically gifted supermen would find a way.

The closest answer is probably "Who was Eddie Willers?".

95 posted on 05/31/2005 11:34:12 AM PDT by jonno (We are NOT a democracy - though we are democratic. We ARE a constitutional republic.)
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To: Vicomte13

There where children in Galts Gulch.

Read the book (again).

Regards,


96 posted on 05/31/2005 11:41:25 AM PDT by jonno (We are NOT a democracy - though we are democratic. We ARE a constitutional republic.)
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To: jonno
Probably Quentin Daniels, since they seemed to make the new guys do the the menial jobs until they worked their way up. And one of the main points of Galt's Gulch was that the technological innovativeness of its inhabitants had rendered a lot of menial labor obsolete. And men like Hank Rearden had worked in their industries for years, and knew (rather unrealistically) how to do every job on the factory floor as well as handle the executive offices.

Rand's point was that John Galt and his fellows were well-rounded individuals who had the ability to handle any challenge.

97 posted on 05/31/2005 11:49:56 AM PDT by Mr. Jeeves ("Violence never settles anything." Genghis Khan, 1162-1227)
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To: B-Chan

Good humor is based in truth.

If you had read the book you know that Dagny not only CAN cook (and clean, etc.) but considered it a high honor - for thosed she loved.

Thus, no humor in the cartoon (IMHO).

Regards,


98 posted on 05/31/2005 11:51:03 AM PDT by jonno (We are NOT a democracy - though we are democratic. We ARE a constitutional republic.)
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To: MarkL
If you want to see a city breakdown quickly, stop the pickup of garbage. While it's been many, many years since I read Atlas Shrugged, I believe that he was getting everyone who society depended on and who was good at what they did. But I could be wrong.

The only reason things break down quickly during garbage strikes is because the union thugs prevent, through sabotage, intimidation, and threats, anyone from doing the work that they are refusing to do.

99 posted on 05/31/2005 11:54:05 AM PDT by mvpel (Michael Pelletier)
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To: Vicomte13
Where are the children?

They were all subjected to Galt's two hour long soliloquy and died of boredom.

100 posted on 05/31/2005 11:54:11 AM PDT by avg_freeper (Gunga galunga. Gunga, gunga galunga)
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