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Blacks suspended [from Charlotte schools] far more than whites
Charlotte Observer ^ | June 12, 2005 | Liz Chandler, Adam Bell, Peter Smolowitz

Posted on 06/12/2005 7:34:54 AM PDT by southernnorthcarolina

Why are Charlotte's black students suspended more often than whites?

It's a hard-to-answer question, say Charlotte-Mecklenburg Schools officials. But they want to look deeper, they say.

An Observer investigation found black students were nearly four times more likely to be suspended than whites in the 2003-04 school year.

Overall, CMS suspended 8 percent of white students, and 30 percent of black students.

Such disparities also exist nationally and suggest a culture clash in schools, experts say.

"It's a very difficult issue, and it's uncomfortable for folks," says assistant superintendent Susan Agruso. "Part of it may be related to culture. Part of it's poverty ... You don't want to believe there are biases, but the truth is -- there probably are."

African American males made up about 21 percent of all CMS students but 46 percent of those suspended.

African American females were second. They accounted for 26 percent of those suspended -- in contrast to national studies that found white males second.

Charlotte's white students made up 42 percent of the student population but just 20 percent of those suspended. Hispanic students' suspensions were proportional to their population.

"If the bulk of our suspensions are centered around a certain group, our responsibility is to figure out why that's happening and what we can do to correct the situation," Agruso says.

The disparity is biggest in elementary schools, where black students were eight times more likely to be suspended than whites.

Agruso says that may stem from culturally different styles and expectations of behavior.

"A lot of children don't show behavior appropriate for school," she says. "We have kids who haven't learned that you're respectful to teachers, you don't curse in class, you don't get up and walk around."

Significant disparities also exist at Mecklenburg's top-achieving high schools. Myers Park and Providence don't suspend as many students as other high schools. But when they do, most suspensions are of black students.

Just 4 percent of Myers Park's white students were suspended, while 31 percent of black students were suspended.

At Providence, 6 percent of white students were suspended, compared with 37 percent of black students.

Principals at both schools were unaware of the extent of the disparities, but say race plays no role in discipline decisions.

Providence High's Mike Mathews wants to further study the disparities at his school.

Myers Park's Bill Anderson called the gap "absolutely not" acceptable. He wants to expand training for teachers to better understand the culture of poverty, which he believes plays a role.

Poverty and other socioeconomic factors may explain some of the disparity, experts say. In Mecklenburg, black school-age children are four times more likely to live in poverty than white children.

The stresses of poverty can mean less structure at home. Children are exposed to more violence and trauma in poor neighborhoods. And they're more likely to live with single parents who may not have as much time to share with their children.

UNCC researcher Laurie Garo found a link between suspensions and crime. She mapped the address of every CMS student suspended in 2003-04 -- and found them largely clustered in the same impoverished neighborhoods plagued by unemployment, dropouts and crime.

"These kids are being put out of the education process, which leaves them unemployable, prone to poverty and reliant on crime for survival," says Garo.

An Observer analysis of school-crime records found black students were far more likely to be arrested at school than white students. Charlotte-Mecklenburg police made 1,004 arrests on CMS campuses in the 2003-04 school year. Of those arrested, 81 percent were black.

A national study suggests yet another reason for the racial gap in suspensions.

Indiana University's "The Color of Discipline" scientifically adjusted for socioeconomic factors and still found blacks suspended more often -- and for more discretionary reasons.

In Charlotte, 44 percent of all suspensions were for "generally disruptive behavior" and "insubordination." Such behaviors require judgment calls by teachers and principals.

"We have to teach people to be very aware of their biases," says Agruso, "and ask if bias is creeping into how they treat a child."

Cultural differences between white teachers and black students can lead to misinterpretation. Black students talking back to teachers may not be a sign of disrespect, says diversity consultant Tim Wise, but can show engagement, as when churchgoers respond to ministers.

Even black teachers and students can misjudge one another when they come from different backgrounds. Direct confrontation by a teacher is a threat for some students.

"You just learn in certain neighborhoods, you don't back down," says Harvard University's Ron Ferguson, who researches achievement gaps. "If you back down, you're going to get your butt whupped."


TOPICS: Culture/Society; US: North Carolina
KEYWORDS: blackstudents; discipline; education; liberalism; pagingbillcosby; pantload; racism; schools; whosyourdaddy
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The Charlotte Observer has outdone itself. An old gag had it that a liberal newspaper -- and the Observer certainly qualifies -- announced the ultimate cataclysm with the headline "World to be destroyed; women and minorities to suffer most." Increasingly, actual Observer articles are resembling the joke. On a daily basis, for decades now, our fishwrapper can be counted on to hammer home how much minorities are mistreated and discriminated against.

God forbid that anyone suggest that the students who were suspended were at fault. Heavens, no. The fault lies in the cultural insensitivity of whites (who, by the way, are now a minority in the Charlotte-Mecklenburg School System).

You see, honky, in da hood it be cool to call your teacher a ho if she disses you, ya know what I'm sayin?

1 posted on 06/12/2005 7:34:55 AM PDT by southernnorthcarolina
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To: southernnorthcarolina

The obvious answer has escaped them.

Suspend a whitey if he looks at you funny. If they inhale too deeply, kick them out. That should help even out the disparity < /yes, sarcasm intended>


2 posted on 06/12/2005 7:36:58 AM PDT by Hodar (With Rights, come Responsibilities. Don't assume one, without assuming the other.)
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To: southernnorthcarolina
Why are Charlotte's black students suspended more often than whites?

Incredibly (in a sane world) the article would at least raise the question as to whether those suspended students DESERVED suspension.

But alas, we do not live in a sane world, therefore the OBVIOUS is never discussed, as it isn't very PC.

3 posted on 06/12/2005 7:38:06 AM PDT by Guillermo (42% of suicide bombers in Iraq are Saudi and Bush continues to lick their boots)
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To: Hodar

No, it didn't escape them...they are not that stupid.

Just referring to it (the obvious) would bring instant charges of racism, classism, etc.


4 posted on 06/12/2005 7:39:17 AM PDT by Guillermo (42% of suicide bombers in Iraq are Saudi and Bush continues to lick their boots)
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To: southernnorthcarolina
Black students talking back to teachers may not be a sign of disrespect, says diversity consultant Tim Wise, but can show engagement, as when churchgoers respond to ministers.

Myers Park's Bill Anderson called the gap "absolutely not" acceptable. He wants to expand training for teachers to better understand the culture of poverty, which he believes plays a role.

How stupid can these clowns be?

The problem is NOT the teachers. As pointed out earlier in the article:

"A lot of children don't show behavior appropriate for school," she says. "We have kids who haven't learned that you're respectful to teachers, you don't curse in class, you don't get up and walk around."

The lefties are not helping the underprivileged by sanctioning antisocial behavior. Doing that only perpetuates their plight.

5 posted on 06/12/2005 7:42:39 AM PDT by BenLurkin (O beautiful for patriot dream - that sees beyond the years)
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Comment #6 Removed by Moderator

To: southernnorthcarolina

Sounds like the crime rate.


7 posted on 06/12/2005 7:43:45 AM PDT by Unicorn
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To: southernnorthcarolina

Here's a similar question; what are the minority/majority expulsion numbers? I. e., How many of the reported 30% blacks expelled are expelled more than once?


8 posted on 06/12/2005 7:44:57 AM PDT by dhuffman@awod.com (The conspiracy of ignorance masquerades as common sense.)
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To: southernnorthcarolina

In my observations as a teacher in a black majority school district for nine years, I would say it is because the black kids misbehave more often.


9 posted on 06/12/2005 7:45:22 AM PDT by Ahban
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To: BenLurkin
Doing that only perpetuates their plight

I just love it when a plan comes together.

10 posted on 06/12/2005 7:46:01 AM PDT by Guillermo (42% of suicide bombers in Iraq are Saudi and Bush continues to lick their boots)
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To: Guillermo

There is an excellent story a few items down from this on how Indian and Asian students are excelling in school; while America uses schools to coodle Mexicans and Blacks.

To paraphrase: 'America staggers towards something called diversity, like a bum will drag himself to a bottle of cheap booze on the sidewalk'. And we have the other gem; Chinese and Indian schools don't have time for loosers, they focus on the hard working, smart kids. America places it's emphasis on making life easier on the loosers, thus making the successful kids little more than the elite among the loosers.


11 posted on 06/12/2005 7:46:20 AM PDT by Hodar (With Rights, come Responsibilities. Don't assume one, without assuming the other.)
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To: Ahban

And to take it a step further, many black kids are raised without the influence of a father in their lives. Discipline is lacking and therefore, at school, they get into more trouble.


12 posted on 06/12/2005 7:48:23 AM PDT by dawn53
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To: southernnorthcarolina
"If you back down, you're going to get your butt whupped."

They won't get their butt whupped for bad behavior in school, though, and therein lies the problem.

13 posted on 06/12/2005 7:53:58 AM PDT by TADSLOS (Right Wing Infidel since 1954)
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To: dawn53

Well Maury Povich is getting to the bottom of the problem of no father in the home - he has given DNA tests up to as many as 25 guys to find out who the father of one child is.

And he does this day in and day out - it is a tough job.



14 posted on 06/12/2005 7:54:27 AM PDT by MudSlide
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To: dawn53

And to take it a step further, libralism is a mental disorder. I would guess that the children of black Republican voters would be LESS likely to get in trouble than the average white kid. Give me some funding, I want to do a study!


15 posted on 06/12/2005 7:54:49 AM PDT by Ahban
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To: southernnorthcarolina
Black students talking back to teachers may not be a sign of disrespect, says diversity consultant Tim Wise, but can show engagement, as when churchgoers respond to ministers.

I didn't know standing up in church on Sunday and calling the minister a "punk-ass b*tch" or a "motherf*cker" was "engagement."

16 posted on 06/12/2005 7:54:52 AM PDT by rickmichaels (God Bless America, Land That I Love)
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To: southernnorthcarolina

So the students who were taught correct behavior prior to Kindergarten are now supposed to suffer by having troublemakers in the classroom to disrupt their education to satisfy these lefties. I dont think so. Maybe some kids need a little extra attention in the early grades to teach them right from wrong.


17 posted on 06/12/2005 7:56:52 AM PDT by Dave S
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To: southernnorthcarolina

Yes. I am a public high school teacher. This "hip-hop" culture where young black men associate themselves with criminals and gang members is killing them. It's killing them academically and socially. In my school, we don't allow the F word in the hallways; when it's heard the kid (usually black) is written up and often suspended. What else are we to do? If we allow that kind of language the parents of the kids who don't use it will pull their kids out and send them to private schools, as maybe they should. As long as young black men have gangbangers as their heros and prefer to bring $150.00 sneakers to class tied around their necks instead of pencils and paper, this is going to go on.


18 posted on 06/12/2005 7:57:10 AM PDT by kjo
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To: dawn53
There are more dysfunctional black families than white families. Ergo, there are more dysfunctional blacks in school. The reason for the dysfunctional families is government policy that destroys the family structure via the rules on welfare.

Most people think LBJs great failure was Vietnam. That was his second greatest failure. The seeds of the present dysfunctional society that affects both the black and the white community but to a greater extent the black community is Lyndon Bains Johnson's "Great Society Legislation" which is the basis of the present welfare system that is destroying society instead of saving it.
19 posted on 06/12/2005 7:57:17 AM PDT by cpdiii (Oil Field Trash, Roughneck, Geologist, Pilot, Pharmacist, (OIL FIELD TRASH was fun))
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To: southernnorthcarolina
Myers Park's Bill Anderson called the gap "absolutely not" acceptable.

Mr. President, we cannot allow a mineshaft gap!

20 posted on 06/12/2005 7:59:02 AM PDT by csvset
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To: Dave S
"Maybe some kids need a little extra attention in the early grades to teach them right from wrong."

The die is cast by the time the child is six years old.

Get your children out of the anarchy/chaos of the public schools.

21 posted on 06/12/2005 8:01:12 AM PDT by blam
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To: Ahban

My three cousins in Jackson Mississippi who taught public for years say precisely the same thing.


They quit and went to teaching private for less money.

Jackson public schools are 88% black


22 posted on 06/12/2005 8:02:24 AM PDT by wardaddy ((Free ILoveDane!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!))
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To: Ahban
I had a black kid work for me a couple of years ago and I had a conversation with him about standing up to police at traffic stops. He was telling me that it's a mark of pride to give the cops lip. Almost an obligation. I told him that the white boy's response to a policeman was yes sir and no sir. He understood, but I don't think it changed anything.
23 posted on 06/12/2005 8:03:20 AM PDT by Thebaddog (Dawgs off the coffee table.)
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To: Ahban
"We have to teach people to be very aware of their biases," says Agruso, "and ask if bias is creeping into how they treat a child."

Most adults have a bias against obnoxious, disruptive behaviour. If a student chooses to act like a ghetto thug or "ho", s/he will not get much of an education. Want to help these kids? Make them behave like civilized people. Their culture, not racism or the "biased" school, is what's dragging them down.

24 posted on 06/12/2005 8:03:26 AM PDT by teawithmisswilliams (Question Diversity)
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To: southernnorthcarolina

Jus' gotta hab quotas, it jes' ain't fayuh no uther way.

Those in the best position to fix this on going problem, are too busy making excuses and blaiming everything and everyone else, to face up to and work on the problem.

The only racism present in this situation, is the raciests who prefer to blame every shortcoming by members of their own race on imagined racism by members of another race.


25 posted on 06/12/2005 8:03:56 AM PDT by F.J. Mitchell (From their slimy left bank puddle, the froggy Dems still croak" Duh........ We da mainstream, we da)
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To: wardaddy
"Jackson public schools are 88% black"

I went to Jackson once. It was the only place I've ever seen a mall with a 12 foot fence around it with armed security guards at the gated entrances/exits.

26 posted on 06/12/2005 8:05:00 AM PDT by blam
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To: southernnorthcarolina

I wonder if there is a correlation to single parent household?


27 posted on 06/12/2005 8:05:30 AM PDT by the_daug
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To: southernnorthcarolina
He wants to expand training for teachers to better understand the culture of poverty, which he believes plays a role.

What kind of crap is that? And if the teacher 'understand(s) the culture of poverty', then she has to put up with bad behavior from some of the kids, but not others? I think that would be called discrimination.

I think the reason behind a higher percentage of black children being suspended is the same as why there is a higher percentage of black males in prison.
28 posted on 06/12/2005 8:05:54 AM PDT by Serenissima Venezia (Hoping to be a California Vigil Antie for the Minuteman Project)
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To: Constitution Day; Alia; TaxRelief; Howlin

If any of the keepers of the NC Ping List are not in church at this hour (like the undersigned infidel), he or she may wish to send this out.


29 posted on 06/12/2005 8:07:12 AM PDT by southernnorthcarolina (What happens in Waxhaw STAYS in Waxhaw.)
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To: kjo

Where do you teach? (you don't have to be specific if you like)

I was in 7th grade Jackson MS when court ordered busing came in over Christmas break 1969 and the Jr High school went from maybe 10% voluntary black to about 65% black when we came back from break. It was supposed to have been 50% but some white booked for private asap.

I stayed and it was wild. I had never seen kids so wild. Sure there were some nerdy black kids and whatnot but I had never seen sex in the bathroom and knife fights and all sorts of crazy stuff.....gang stuff too. I was attacked by a gang for refusing to turn over my pencil...lol...a damned pencil. My black homeroom teacher saved my ass.

My folks yanked me out after that year and we went private and neighborhood schools were ruined forever.

Folks here don't have a clue unless they were there.

At the time I actually thought it was fun...12 years old and all.


Thanks for your efforts teach!


It's about the families and culture....always has been.


30 posted on 06/12/2005 8:09:33 AM PDT by wardaddy ((Free ILoveDane!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!))
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To: blam

Parts of it have a J-burg charm.


31 posted on 06/12/2005 8:09:59 AM PDT by wardaddy ((Free ILoveDane!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!))
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To: cpdiii
There are more dysfunctional black families than white families

Fear not, help is on the way. Currently bastardy is at the same level in the white population as it was in the black population in the late 1960's. One more generation and things will even out.
32 posted on 06/12/2005 8:10:38 AM PDT by Kozak (Anti Shahada: " There is no God named Allah, and Muhammed is his False Prophet")
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To: southernnorthcarolina

All these kids need is a father that takes his belt off and whips their asses with it.


33 posted on 06/12/2005 8:12:13 AM PDT by BobS
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To: southernnorthcarolina
Indiana University's "The Color of Discipline" scientifically adjusted for socioeconomic factors and still found blacks suspended more often -- and for more discretionary reasons.

So, we have a study that adjusted for factors of social and economic bias. So where are the raw numbers. In other words how many of the black suspensions (other factors being controlled) are because of discretionary calls by the teacher. (and how many teachers are black?). This is a flawed study like so many examined by Thomas Sowell in his book "Vision of the Anointed". The problem is that the study started with the vision that blacks would be discriminated against in school and proceeded from there.

One thing that should be mentioned is that teachers, as a class, work very hard on their prejudices. I had a bias against kids who refused to turn in homework for example. I would never let a racial bias affect what I did as I tried to understand every student. But some kids work harder, some kids let you know they are trying to get it but can't. Some kids come after school or during lunch for the extra help that was always offered. Etc. And the teacher tries to behave equally toward every student, and tries to be fair when deciding the grades at the end of every quarter. But I would have to argue that disruptive behavior hurts all the kids for the sake one one or two who can't behave. Sorry, classes need discipline and kids need to come to school with this one understanding -- behave or out you go.

Finally it must be noted that this article casts dispersions on a fine -- usually left thinking group -- the teachers themselves. If this is a left on left problem, maybe we should let them duke it out. I for one would love to see the teachers union take on the elites who put out shoddy research like this. The anointed Vs. the anointed.

34 posted on 06/12/2005 8:23:28 AM PDT by KC_for_Freedom (Sailing the highways of America, and loving it.)
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To: southernnorthcarolina
"Blacks suspended [from Charlotte schools] far more than whites"

The reason is behavior and not race. The few times that I got mine busted for bad behavior in school, I got it busted again when I got home. No questions on my part concerning fairness were entertained.

35 posted on 06/12/2005 8:23:41 AM PDT by davisfh
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To: southernnorthcarolina
they get suspended more for the same reason they go to jail more, because they commit more crime.

white males on the other hand account for nearly 100% of mass murder convictions for the same reason... because more white men commit these types of crimes.

who knows why, but to blame every oddity you notice between ethnic groups on racism is absurd.
36 posted on 06/12/2005 8:30:06 AM PDT by Nyboe (From God we receive both our freedom and morality. A Godless society will have neither.)
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To: Thebaddog

I have a confession to make-it's not just the young black kids who think they're just duty bound to piss off every Cop who pulls them over. My own youngest son,white, now middle aged and solid as a rock,law abiding, hard working family man, was the same as the black kid you are talking about, in his youth.

He himself has raised four of his children to adulthood and not one ever ran a routine traffic stop into a felony, with their own lips. I believe that he learned the hard way, that sometimes the less pain, the more gain, and shared that knowledge with his children.




37 posted on 06/12/2005 8:34:53 AM PDT by F.J. Mitchell (From their slimy left bank puddle, the froggy Dems still croak" Duh........ We da mainstream, we da)
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To: rickmichaels

Would they be suspended if they called out "Amen, brother!" in class?


38 posted on 06/12/2005 8:36:23 AM PDT by Tax-chick ("They settled down hard on a government grant, with six mouths to feed and forty acres to plant.")
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To: southernnorthcarolina
But they want to look deeper, they say.

However, they do not want to look deeply enough to find the TRUE root of the problem, which is that blacks violate school policies at a rate four times that of whites, and the violations are more egregious on average than those of white students.

39 posted on 06/12/2005 8:38:31 AM PDT by IronJack
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To: F.J. Mitchell
Why are Charlotte's black students suspended more often than whites?

The answer is known to anyone who has taught both.

40 posted on 06/12/2005 8:39:00 AM PDT by ReadyNow (When you see the eye, expect a lie.)
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To: southernnorthcarolina
Why are Charlotte's black students suspended more often than whites

Could it possibly be that they commit more offenses that call for suspensions? nah, it's Bush's fault.

41 posted on 06/12/2005 8:39:20 AM PDT by zip (Remember: DimocRat lies told often enough became truth to 48% of Americans (NRA))))
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To: southernnorthcarolina

Not all athletes proform the same way and to require a basketball player to catch the football on sunday would just end up in exasperation far everyone. So we wonder why some act out.


42 posted on 06/12/2005 8:43:57 AM PDT by Judge Roy
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To: southernnorthcarolina
Such disparities also exist nationally and suggest a culture clash in schools, experts say.

It is a culture clash. It’s a Black Thing and you wouldn’t understand.
Behavior among teenage Blacks is not only tolerated but also accepted as the norm. The same behavior is unacceptable to most Whites. The use of violence in response to minor perceived slights is one example.
43 posted on 06/12/2005 8:44:04 AM PDT by R. Scott (Humanity i love you because when you're hard up you pawn your Intelligence to buy a drink.)
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To: BenLurkin
He wants to expand training for teachers to better understand the culture of poverty, which he believes plays a role.

Truly amazing. All Whites are rich – even in North Carolina, and all Blacks are poor.
44 posted on 06/12/2005 8:46:02 AM PDT by R. Scott (Humanity i love you because when you're hard up you pawn your Intelligence to buy a drink.)
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To: Ahban
In my observations as a teacher in a black majority school district for nine years, I would say it is because the black kids misbehave more often.

The obvious solution is to encourage white kids to misbehave more often so that the suspension rates will be similar.

45 posted on 06/12/2005 8:46:41 AM PDT by Polybius
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To: Hodar
They (the paper) are certainly dancing around the truth and facts. But then I've seen what repercussions can result from actually trying to get at the facts: Riots and Mayhem. (So, I'm not going to get on their case; yet)

Were they more honest -- no doubts there'd be -- Massive screams of "racism" and boycotts.... extortion by special interest groups "BY ANY MEANS NECESSARY".

I wish they (those "power groups") would take their toys and go home -- and let people truly and earnestly wanting to help the problem, get at it.

We're talking about CHILDREN. Precious, unique, little souls. But special interest groups are into power and money; babies and children being mere "instruments" in their grand ole' strategy to "control" others.

46 posted on 06/12/2005 8:47:51 AM PDT by Alia
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To: kjo

Bingo. It's called "leveling the playing field" in modern liberalese. Creates a "war" zone, actually. And then the demands that only "specific minority teachers" teach only that specific minority. Quotas by another means. I've not ever seen it work well or bring up student grades, under those terms.


47 posted on 06/12/2005 8:49:35 AM PDT by Alia
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To: southernnorthcarolina; Constitution Day; TaxRelief; 100%FEDUP; 2ndMostConservativeBrdMember; ...

NC *Ping*

Please FRmail Constitution Day OR TaxRelief OR Alia if you want to be added to or removed from this North Carolina ping list.
48 posted on 06/12/2005 8:51:16 AM PDT by Alia
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To: Hodar

Not loosers, but LOSERS! Gad!


49 posted on 06/12/2005 8:53:36 AM PDT by Paulus Invictus
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To: southernnorthcarolina
UNCC researcher Laurie Garo found a link between suspensions and crime. She mapped the address of every CMS student suspended in 2003-04 -- and found them largely clustered in the same impoverished neighborhoods plagued by unemployment, dropouts and crime.

"These kids are being put out of the education process, which leaves them unemployable, prone to poverty and reliant on crime for survival," says Garo.

The above is a classic "pro-culture-war zone" hack assertion. Dime a dozen. It uses this scenario to "grow" liberal/democrat bureacracies. Don't fall for it. There are some superb charter schools in the area. If the parents really care...

50 posted on 06/12/2005 8:54:06 AM PDT by Alia
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