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Is Staying Home with Children "Shirking Work" For Child Support Purposes? [UNBELIEVABLE LAWSUIT]
Findlaw's Writ ^ | 6/14/05 | Joanna Grossman

Posted on 06/15/2005 2:32:06 PM PDT by freespirited

Jane Chen was a well-paid Wisconsin anesthesiologist. But at the age of 43, she decided to "retire" to stay home with her three school-age children.

Even in 2005, Chen's decision was hardly unusual or remarkable: Women (and sometimes men) frequently forego employment, even lucrative employment, in order to stay home with children.

What is remarkable and unusual, though, is that Chen's decision landed her in court. Her ex-husband argued that, by staying home, she was "shirking" her responsibility to provide financial support to their children. And he complained that due to her decision, a court was now ordering him to pay $4000 more a month in child support.

In Chen v. Warner, the Wisconsin Supreme Court recently sided with Jane Chen. It held that her decision was reasonable under the circumstances, and did not constitute "shirking."

Other states, however, have ruled differently. And overall, America features a checkered legal landscape on the treatment of divorced parents who forego income in favor of at-home childrearing.

Some Background on Child Support Law

Once, only fathers were legally required to pay child support. Now, under the law, all parents have a legal duty to support their children.

In a family with married parents, that obligation is enforced mainly through the abuse-and-neglect laws. Parents who fail to support their children risk losing them, and may even face criminal penalties.

When parents divorce - or sometimes, even if they never married - the duty of support changes. For the non-custodial parent, it is enforced through the imposition of formal child support obligations.

In theory, child support has always been available. But historically, it was not routinely awarded until at least the 1970s. Then, through a series of federal laws, Congress required states to adopt rules that would result in a greater number of child support awards, in greater amounts. (It did not, however, mandate what the rules ought to be.)

Pursuant to a 1988 federal law, every state today maintains child support guidelines that dictate exactly how much a non-custodial parent should be obligated to pay. The guidelines in each state are derived from a set formula, which is supposed to produce an appropriate amount of support to meet children's needs. These formulas, regardless of their technical variations, are all based on the basic assumption that children should benefit from roughly the same percentage of parental income after divorce as they did in the intact household.

States tend to follow one of three basic formulas:

First, some states, such as Wisconsin, simply require noncustodial parents to pay a flat percentage of their income to the custodial parents based on the number of children being supported.

Second, a majority of states use the "income-shares" model. In this model, total support is calculated based on a percentage of combined parental income. Then, each parent's portion is calculated based on his or her relative earnings.

Third, a handful of states use a model that first carves out necessary expenses for parental support, and then assigns a percentage of the remaining income for child support.

One of Congress' goals in requiring states to adopt guidelines was to decrease judicial discretion in awarding child support and, thereby, to increase consistency among awards. As a result, the amount of support called for by any set of guidelines is "presumptively" appropriate - which means that a judge can only deviate from that amount (up or down) in certain, limited circumstances.

The Definition of "Income" for Child Support Purposes

While state definitions of "income" vary, most permit judges to replace actual "income" with "earning capacity" in appropriate circumstances.

One such circumstance would be an attempt to avoid obligations. For example, suppose a father quits his job immediately before appearing in divorce court, for the sole purpose of evading a child support award. In that situation, the court will likely substitute his former monthly wage for "0" when calculating child support.

But what if the loss of income is not an obvious attempt to avoid obligation - as was the case with Jane Chen? Should the judge calculate support based on actual income (even if it is "0")? Or should the judge look to the individual's earning capacity instead?

That is the question the Wisconsin courts grappled with, in Chen v. Warner.

Chen v. Warner: The Finances and Their Agreement

At the end of their 18-year marriage, Chen and her then-husband, John Warner, both worked at the Marshfield Clinic. She was earning $236,000 per year as an anesthesiologist; he was earning $256,452 as a neuroradiologist. Both parents had always worked full-time while raising their three children.

When they divorced, the couple agreed to joint physical custody of the children, with custody to each parent in alternating weeks. Based on this fact, and on the respective incomes of the parties, Wisconsin's child support guidelines would have dictated roughly equal child support obligations for the parents in this case (Warner would owe a few hundred dollars more, based on his slightly greater income).

Thus, Chen and Warner parted ways without a child support order in place, agreeing that each would simply pay the children's expenses during custodial periods and unusual expenses would be shared equally. Also, Warner would put $400 per month per child in a college savings account.

Shortly after the divorce became final, Chen sought to go part-time at the clinic. When they refused her request, she quit. Because she had savings of over a million dollars, she anticipated being able to easily cover expenses for herself and the children with investment income alone.

The market downturn surprised her, however, and she found herself with insufficient income to cover her expenses. She then sought to require Warner to pay child support.

By that time, Warner's income had nearly doubled -- to $472,000. Even after he paid his own expenses and contributed to a retirement account, he was left with discretionary monthly income of $12,000.

Thus, his ability to pay child support was hardly in doubt. But, on the other hand, neither was Chen's: Had she stayed at the clinic, she, too, would have been earning over $400,000 yearly, and even returning to work after time off, she could still garner a hefty salary if she chose.

Voluntary Un- and Underemployment: Courts Can Decide Its Effect

Should one parent have to pay child support because of another's change in job status? Or should the parent with changed job status have his or her earning capacity taken into account? (Often, this question is, in practice, the question of whether this parent will be forced to return to work, since one can hardly spend "imputed" income.)

The answer is: It's generally up to the court's discretion.

Few courts still require proof of an ill-motive. But a parent who voluntarily impoverishes herself in a bid to avoid paying child support will certainly fail. But what about when the motive is different - for instance, the lower income is because the parent has opted to spend more time taking care of the children?

In some states, there is an express statutory exception for a "nurturing parent" with young children. Louisiana, for example, exempts the primary caretaker of children under five from having income imputed to them. Similarly, the American Law Institute's Principles of the Law of Family Dissolution recommend against imputing income, based on earning capacity, to a custodial parent with non-school age children.

Wisconsin has no statutory exception, however. The statute permits the discretionary imputation of income if it concludes that a parent is "shirking" - the state's term for voluntary un- or under-employment. ("Shirking," despite its very pejorative connotations, is used by Wisconsin courts simply to describe any unreasonable voluntary decision to reduce or forego income, regardless of motive.)

Wisconsin also, however, permits a court to consider the desirability of having an at-home parent -- and the value of any services provides by the at-home parent -- in deciding whether to impute income to that parent based on his or her earning capacity.

The Chen/Warner Case: Was Chen's Decision to Be At Home "Reasonable"?

The parties in the case all agreed that the unemployment was voluntary, and that the true purpose was for Chen to spend more time with her children. But was it reasonable?

An intact family has the luxury of making almost any decision about work and income that it sees fit - even if the consequence is that children have much less money available to meet their needs. And many families elect to have one parent - usually the mother, despite greater workforce access and gains in equality for women - stay home while children are young.

The decision is made easier by trust: The parent who stays home trusts the other parent to provide for her if, later, her career opportunities are more limited; the parent who works trusts the other parent not to monopolize the children's affections, and gives up time with the children because he trusts that this is best for the family as a whole.

But when parents are divorced, trust may be lacking - and parents may come into conflict when they must defend such decisions to a court. Worse, this task is made all the harder when one parent's unemployment directly affects an ex-spouse's child support obligation.

Parents who might have easily come to a decision about work and income during their marriage, may find such a decision extremely difficult to make when they are divorced. Even simply continuing a prior arrangement that worked well can become controversial as the parties' interests diverge.

The father in this case argued that although children generally benefit from having an at-home parent, the benefit was not sufficient to outweigh the increased burden on him. Moreover, he argued, the children were of school-age, had no special needs, and had done well earlier in their lives, when both parents worked full time.

The appellate court ruled, however, that the mother's decision to retire was reasonable, given the circumstances: She had been unable to find appropriate part-time work, the father could easily afford child support, and the children would benefit from her greater involvement in their lives and activities. It thus upheld the trial court's order for the father to pay $4000/month in child support.

Other States' Approaches: Different From Wisconsin's

In other states without an express exception for caregiving, the results have been mixed. (The variations are aptly described in a 1999 student note in the Catholic Law Review authored by Catherine Moseley Clark, "Imputing Parental Income in Child Support Determinations: What Price for a Child's Best Interest?")

Some courts focus solely on earning capacity, without regard to motive - ill or otherwise. Others take account of a broader conception of a child's best interests to include their non-economic needs as well.

Outside the caregiving context, noncustodial parents routinely have income imputed to them when they voluntarily reduce or forego wages. A father in a recent New York case, for example, was held in contempt of court for refusing to seek admission to the bar when he had both completed law school and passed the bar exam.

The father had chosen to pursue theological studies instead -- a decision the court ultimately said he was not entitled to make given his outstanding child support obligations. His responsibility, in the court's eyes, was to maximize his earning capacity, given his demonstrated ability and the opportunity for high-income work at a law firm.

A Case Involving Parents with Lower Income Will Be a Better Test Case

Yet Dr. Chen was permitted to forego an annual income of $415,000 in order to stay home with her school-age children, over whom she had custody only every other week. Was that the right result?

Most observers might say yes - but the answer would be an easy one only because the father had a very high ability to pay the child support. That meant that the Chen/Warner children could have what many would see as the best of both worlds: ample financial support, plus a full-time at-home parent.

(Others, of course, would see having two working parents - each a role model, fulfilling his or her hopes and ambitions - to be the best of both worlds. But on this topic, reasonable minds differ.)

The law might have been better served by a lower-income case - in which one parent's unilateral decision not to work caused a real hardship for the other parent. Also interesting would be a case in which both parents wanted to stay at home - but only one could do so.

What if Dr. Warner had also wanted to be in Dr. Chen's position? This doesn't seem so far-fetched: After all, he'd sought equal physical custody of the children, not just visitation; he was far from an absentee dad.

In such cases, the court would have had to grapple more thoughtfully with the tension between a parent's duty to provide financial support and the obligation to tend to their other needs. It will have to grapple, as well, with the tension between the different visions two now-adversarial parents may have for what is best for themselves, and for their children.

--------------------------------------------------------

Joanna Grossman, a FindLaw columnist, is a professor of law at Hofstra University. Her columns on family law, trusts and estates, and discrimination, including sex discrimination and sexual harassment, may be found in the archive of her columns on this site.


TOPICS: Culture/Society; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: childsupport; stayathomemom; wisconsin
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By that time, Warner's income had nearly doubled -- to $472,000. Even after he paid his own expenses and contributed to a retirement account, he was left with discretionary monthly income of $12,000.

And he went to court over giving 4K a month to his kids? The feminists will have a field day with this guy.

1 posted on 06/15/2005 2:32:08 PM PDT by freespirited
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Comment #2 Removed by Moderator

To: freespirited

Okay, where are all the dolts you see on divorce/child support threads blaming only the women.


3 posted on 06/15/2005 2:34:28 PM PDT by k2blader ("A kingdom of conscience ... That is what lies at the end of Crusade.")
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To: freespirited
"And he complained that due to her decision, a court was now ordering him to pay $4000 more a month in child support. "

Hmm just another guy refusing to bear the burden of supporting people who don't want to work. Good for him, wonder how he votes
4 posted on 06/15/2005 2:36:16 PM PDT by tfecw (Vote Democrat, It's easier than working)
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To: freespirited

What child needs 4k a month to live off of?


5 posted on 06/15/2005 2:37:29 PM PDT by Xenophobic Alien (OK gang, you know the rules, no humping, no licking, no sniffing hineys.)
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To: freespirited
it's only "shirking work" if a guy does it.

basing any case law on this would be silly since it's such an anomaly. Probably 1 in 500 dads get custody.
6 posted on 06/15/2005 2:37:44 PM PDT by Rakkasan1 (The MRS wanted to go to an expensive place to eat so I took her to the gas station.)
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To: Xenophobic Alien

well it's more than that ;)

they don't say how much he pays but mentioned that the 2 parents pay about the same (dad pays a couple hundred dollars more)

So based on that I would guess these kids are getting about 8,200 a month for in total.


7 posted on 06/15/2005 2:40:10 PM PDT by tfecw (Vote Democrat, It's easier than working)
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To: Order 66

Welcome to freerepublic


8 posted on 06/15/2005 2:43:06 PM PDT by Xenophobic Alien (OK gang, you know the rules, no humping, no licking, no sniffing hineys.)
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To: freespirited
If the gender roles were reversed this wouldn't even be an issue. No single father would be allowed to choose to stay home to raise his children and get $4k a month from his ex-wife in child support. We are programmed not to notice this unfair double-standard.
9 posted on 06/15/2005 2:43:20 PM PDT by Now_is_The_Time (reality is non-negotiable)
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To: freespirited

Obviously, he doesn't value mom staying home with children.
A lot of men would rather have the 2nd income than a stay at home mom for the kids.


10 posted on 06/15/2005 2:43:52 PM PDT by Lorianne
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To: k2blader
If the husband is now an ex-husband because he committed infidelity, or was physically violent toward his wife, or was a drug addict he should be on the hook no matter what.

But I have no patience for women who leave their husbands because of constant bickering, or "emotional abuse", or their own infidelity or because they're "in a rut" and "have to be me."

These things really have to be judged on a case-by-case basis.

Botom line: far too many Americans end marriages because they are selfish.

11 posted on 06/15/2005 2:44:19 PM PDT by wideawake (God bless our brave troops and their Commander-in-Chief)
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To: Lorianne
A lot of men would rather have the 2nd income than a stay at home mom for the kids.

Not I.

I'm an actual man.

12 posted on 06/15/2005 2:45:32 PM PDT by wideawake (God bless our brave troops and their Commander-in-Chief)
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To: Xenophobic Alien

courts are suppose to consider the "best interest of the child" . maybe the kid was best interested in violin lessons,ballet lessons, summer,spring and fall camp,wearing the Ambercrombie wardrobe, and going to private tutors.
and when all is said and done, they'll probably need a shrink and some meds ,too.
btw, cool name.


13 posted on 06/15/2005 2:45:36 PM PDT by Rakkasan1 (The MRS wanted to go to an expensive place to eat so I took her to the gas station.)
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To: All

I'm most confused as to why the interest on $1 million wasn't enough to provide for herself and the kids during her custodial periods.

And I don't understand, really, why it's OK for a woman to change the deal midstream. We wouldn't let the guys do this. Also, we seem to think it's OK for a man to just have to go along with the woman's decision here without any input into it whatsoever.

This is classic feminism.


14 posted on 06/15/2005 2:47:21 PM PDT by Madeleine Ward
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To: freespirited

I wonder who would pay if he decided not to work. I'll bet the court would force him to work, and there's your answer.

If he can't quit working, she shouldn't be able to either.

If she's well off enough to quit working, then he shouldn't have to pay any increase in support. If she isn't well off enough to quit working, then what the hell did she quit for?

Happy Father's day dad. Hope you get some vaseline...


15 posted on 06/15/2005 2:48:57 PM PDT by DoughtyOne (US socialist liberalism would be dead without the help of politicians who claim to be conservative.)
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To: Lorianne
She's not a stay at home mom for the kids.

She's a, "happens to be at home because she wanted to coast on her earnings mom when they are living with her instead of their father every other week"

As for why they got divorced? If he was cheating or beating the ol wife i highly doubt he would have equal custody of the kiddies. We aren't talking about a deadbeat dad, we're talking about a person who has the potential to earn 400,000 bucks a year decided she doesn't want to work anymore because the ex can pay for things.
16 posted on 06/15/2005 2:51:04 PM PDT by tfecw (Vote Democrat, It's easier than working)
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To: wideawake
Bottom line: far too many Americans end marriages because they are selfish.

Agreed. And, when they do this, they give up the convenience of being able to decide (together) that one should stay home with the kids.

17 posted on 06/15/2005 2:51:24 PM PDT by Half Vast Conspiracy (If their Chief of police is okay with it, I am guessing that we should probably be okay with it.)
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To: CrawDaddyCA

ping


18 posted on 06/15/2005 2:51:26 PM PDT by Xenophobic Alien (OK gang, you know the rules, no humping, no licking, no sniffing hineys.)
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To: DoughtyOne

If he had tried to quit work, he would not have been awarded any money from the wife because his staying at home would not be 'reasonable.'


19 posted on 06/15/2005 2:51:35 PM PDT by Madeleine Ward
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To: k2blader
OK, let me get this straight: these two parents, after the divorce, were caring for the children on alternate weeks. That means that 50% of the time, the kids were living at Dad's house. Dad was also putting money into a college account for each kid monthly. Mom, who made as much as Dad, decides to quit, presumably to devote more time to the children that she ONLY CARED FOR 50% OF THE TIME. Then, inexplicably, the market downturn somehow affected her "savings" (I'm thinking if you lost money from a market downturn, your money wasn't in savings, but in stocks), so she then feels entitled to ask for $4000/month for caring for the kids 50% of the time. Oh, and let's not forget that these kids were school-age, so most of the day they're not even at home.

My guess is that this woman has decided she just didn't want to work anymore, and it was far easier to force her husband to pay her way than go back to work. She's taking him for a ride, and he knows it. He has shown quite clearly that he want to take care of his children, and does, but he obviously does not feel obligated to pay her personal expenses just because she decided not to work. Since child support was the only means she had of siphoning money out of him, then arguing against the child support is the only way he can stop her from stealing his money. However, knee-jerkers grab that concept and say "Hey, he's trying to get out of paying child support!" Bah. $4000/month is far more than is needed to take care of these kids 50% of the time. She'd be spending most of that money on her own personal items and expenses.
20 posted on 06/15/2005 2:52:21 PM PDT by fr_freak
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To: freespirited

At 43, with three children, staying home is a pretty common call. My wife now stays home, giving up a six figure salary to do so. We believe the kids are better off, she is better off, and the family is better off with her home. I make a fine salary -- but losing 110K in income hurts -- period.

This case is obviously one that is fact-driven, and should be based upon the individual circumstances of each case and each family.

At 472K, contributing 4k a month to child support is not a real problem. This is a guy who is probably damn mad at the wife, and would rather have the money in his pocket. I can't blame him for that -- but this is a situation of their making.

Neither of these folks are horribly sympathetic, Particularly when most American families would love to net a total of 4K a month in their whole houshold.



21 posted on 06/15/2005 2:53:18 PM PDT by Iron Eagle
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To: DoughtyOne
I wonder who would pay if he decided not to work. I'll bet the court would force him to work, and there's your answer.

If he refused to work, he would be in jail. If the roles were reversed, he would be in jail. Men's disobedience to the child support industry will not be tolerated.

22 posted on 06/15/2005 2:55:30 PM PDT by Luddite Patent Counsel ("Those are my principles, and if you don't like them... well, I have others." - Groucho Marx)
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To: Iron Eagle
At 472K, contributing 4k a month to child support is not a real problem.

It's never a problem when it's not your money.

23 posted on 06/15/2005 2:56:48 PM PDT by Luddite Patent Counsel ("Those are my principles, and if you don't like them... well, I have others." - Groucho Marx)
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To: fr_freak

I think your post pretty much nailed it.


24 posted on 06/15/2005 2:57:56 PM PDT by malakhi
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To: Lorianne
A lot of men would rather have the 2nd income than a stay at home mom for the kids.

Im not one of them..

25 posted on 06/15/2005 3:00:04 PM PDT by cardinal4 (Extraordinary Circumstances- proving PT Barnum was right..)
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To: freespirited

They each have equal capacity to earn fairly generous incomes. They agreed that each would cover the expense of the child during their half of the year.

She has decided to take off work during her custody period, and has asked him to pay her a stipend during that time. Is she willing to do the same for him, if he decides to take off work when the child is staying with him?

That would be my verdict. Instead of alternating weeks, let them alternate months. Let him pay her the $4k during her month off, then when he has custody and she's back at work, let her pay him.


26 posted on 06/15/2005 3:00:14 PM PDT by marron
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To: tfecw


As for why they got divorced? If he was cheating or beating the ol wife i highly doubt he would have equal custody of the kiddies


_____

Your joking right? What does cheating have to do with custody under nofault divorce laws?

I think that if I worked full time and hubby worked full time and Daddy left and I was not able to get a part time job I would stay home with the children. The kids would be on tenterhooks as it is and need the extra guidance.


27 posted on 06/15/2005 3:03:06 PM PDT by mlmr (CHICKIE-POO!)
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To: Iron Eagle

At 472K, contributing 4k a month to child support is not a real problem

_________

I read it as 4k more a month...I imagine he is paying 7 or 8K. But at 472 that still doesnt give much of a bump.


28 posted on 06/15/2005 3:04:47 PM PDT by mlmr (CHICKIE-POO!)
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To: freespirited

"Moreover, he argued, the children were of school-age, had no special needs, and had done well earlier in their lives, when both parents worked full time."

And about all this, he had a good point!

Great post! This was really and excellent article, it gave a very informative over view of this subject, and was quite readable, if a little exacting in its precision (but I guess that can't be avoided in a piece like this). It also really shows, not tells but shows, how divorce truly undermines family life; and indicates via its discussion of even the wealthiest amoung us, how that starts to undermine all of society. Especially in its impact on the children in the family. If this family was together they might have the mom stay home; or maybe she could get better part time work (it seemed the week on/week off custody was making sucha gig hard to find, maybe), or they might have big fights about it (all the time!), but they wouldn't be adversaries in a court room, letting "society" and THE GOVERNMENT run their lives and raise their children.

So telling, really.


29 posted on 06/15/2005 3:06:37 PM PDT by jocon307 (Can we close the border NOW?)
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To: mlmr
"Your joking right? What does cheating have to do with custody under nofault divorce laws? "

I never joke. ;)

I have no idea what cheating does in terms of custody. I do know that men have a very difficult time getting custody of kids. I haven't experienced divorce first hand or via my parents so i dunno. I think it's pretty clear that if he's abusive or shooting H that he wouldn't have equal custody.

"
I think that if I worked full time and hubby worked full time and Daddy left and I was not able to get a part time job I would stay home with the children. The kids would be on tenterhooks as it is and need the extra guidance.""

Sure I would agree with that scenario, but this article couldn't be any farther from that scenario.
30 posted on 06/15/2005 3:07:52 PM PDT by tfecw (Vote Democrat, It's easier than working)
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To: marron

She left a job paying 240 a year to stay home and he bitches about 4 k in support? That is peculiar.

But the fair thing is for both to have 1/2 time jobs,,they could job share since she can't get 1/2 time. And then both contribute and both get to stay home.


31 posted on 06/15/2005 3:08:26 PM PDT by cajungirl (no)
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To: wideawake

I believe about 2/3 of divorces are initiated by the wife.


32 posted on 06/15/2005 3:08:57 PM PDT by Restorer
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To: jocon307
but they wouldn't be adversaries in a court room, letting "society" and THE GOVERNMENT run their lives and raise their children.

Of course, restricting their ability to divorce would also constitute "society" and THE GOVERNMENT running their lives.

33 posted on 06/15/2005 3:09:14 PM PDT by malakhi
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To: tfecw

Sure I would agree with that scenario, but this article couldn't be any farther from that scenario

But that was the gist of the article.




I have no idea what cheating does in terms of custody.

Not much.


34 posted on 06/15/2005 3:10:00 PM PDT by mlmr (CHICKIE-POO!)
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To: mlmr

"But that was the gist of the article. "

Wrong try reading the article, not Gisting it. Post 20 gives a "gist" of the article.


"I read it as 4k more a month...I imagine he is paying 7 or 8K. But at 472 that still doesnt give much of a bump."

Sure, he's already paying for all the other lazy people who don't want to work, what's one more?


35 posted on 06/15/2005 3:11:24 PM PDT by tfecw (Vote Democrat, It's easier than working)
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To: tfecw

"they don't say how much he pays but mentioned that the 2 parents pay about the same (dad pays a couple hundred dollars more)"

But, I think the situation here, and why it went to court, was that originally the dad was paying $0.00 in child support. They just each went about their lives with the kids and only if a big expense came up would either have to part with a specific amount of $$. Then, even when the mom started working part time she supplemented with other income from investments, etc. and still did not get a "child support" income from ex-hubby.

Now, she wanted to stop working all together and have him provide a monthly (annual, whatever) "stipend"; and I guess she'll get it now. But, as the kids are older, and as the father does have a great ability to pay, I suppose it's ok for these people. But what I really got out of this article is how really bad a way that is to life one's life as a parent.


36 posted on 06/15/2005 3:11:56 PM PDT by jocon307 (Can we close the border NOW?)
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To: jocon307

I felt sorry for the kids, one week with mom, one week with Dad. How can a kid deal with that? It just seems so disruptive unless they live around the corner from each other.


37 posted on 06/15/2005 3:14:14 PM PDT by cajungirl (no)
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To: jocon307
oooh that's interesting. I guess it doesn't really make sense for the mother to pay dad x amount of dollars and for dad to pay mother pretty much the same right back ;)
38 posted on 06/15/2005 3:14:37 PM PDT by tfecw (Vote Democrat, It's easier than working)
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To: Luddite Patent Counsel

"It's never a problem when it's not your money."

And that's true too.


39 posted on 06/15/2005 3:16:32 PM PDT by jocon307 (Can we close the border NOW?)
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To: Lorianne
Obviously, he doesn't value mom staying home with children.

No, he doesn't value her refusing to pull her weight financially. Her little mid-life crisis is costing him $4000 more per month.

40 posted on 06/15/2005 3:17:30 PM PDT by Modernman ("Laws are like sausages, it is better not to see them being made." -Bismarck)
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To: freespirited
"The appellate court ruled, however, that the mother's decision to retire was reasonable, given the circumstances: She had been unable to find appropriate part-time work, the father could easily afford child support, and the children would benefit from her greater involvement in their lives and activities. It thus upheld the trial court's order for the father to pay $4000/month in child support."

Judicial activism, socialist, elitist, egalitarian thinking at it's worst.

41 posted on 06/15/2005 3:17:41 PM PDT by tahiti
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To: cajungirl

"But the fair thing is for both to have 1/2 time jobs,,they could job share since she can't get 1/2 time. And then both contribute and both get to stay home."

Yes, but then what if the husband doesn't want to do that either?


42 posted on 06/15/2005 3:19:26 PM PDT by jocon307 (Can we close the border NOW?)
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To: Xenophobic Alien
What child needs 4k a month to live off of?

There are three children. But more important is that here you have three kids who alternate custody between mom and dad. Dad, who earns almost a half million dollars a year goes to court over having to spend a few grand a month more on them that he can easily afford. You dont think these kids are going to wonder how their father feels about them now that he's gone to court hoping to be able to spend the money on himself instead of them?

I cant imagine being this guy's patient.

43 posted on 06/15/2005 3:19:47 PM PDT by freespirited
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To: Luddite Patent Counsel
If he refused to work, he would be in jail. If the roles were reversed, he would be in jail.

I was under the impression that slavery and debtors prisons were something from a bygone era....

44 posted on 06/15/2005 3:20:13 PM PDT by Modernman ("Laws are like sausages, it is better not to see them being made." -Bismarck)
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To: Iron Eagle

Actually, the story said he had to pay $4,000 MORE a month after his wife stopped working. It never did say what his total payment was. My guess is that the were each paying about $4,000 a month, and he was required to pick up what she was no longer paying. $96,000 a year is not chicken feed, even for a guy making his salary. Is child support tax deductible, does anyone know? If these are after tax dollars, that really is a big bite.


45 posted on 06/15/2005 3:21:15 PM PDT by blau993 (Labs for love; .357 for Security.)
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To: cajungirl

In our family, my dad worked and my mom stayed home, I worked and my wife stayed home (the kids are grown now, but now we've got grandkids and my wife is pretty busy with them... and still home), and I've always believed thats the way it ought to be.

When a marriage breaks down, the dad owes a fair share of the child's expenses. Since the woman's earnings are usually limited for at least a few years after the divorce, if he has left her, he should pay something more during those first few years until she has had time to get on her feet.

But this seems like a unique case. She is, or was, a millionaire. And while she says she wasn't allowed to work half-time, it seems to me that part-time and flex-time work is pretty common in the medical field, especially when they work through an agency. I sympathise with her desire to be off while the child is at her house, but I find it hard to believe she couldn't get work through an agency the week he's with his dad.


46 posted on 06/15/2005 3:21:22 PM PDT by marron
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To: cajungirl

"It just seems so disruptive unless they live around the corner from each other."

LOL, right! I remember hearing Dr. Laura tell people who wanted to do this, was to let the kids live one place and have the parents live one week on/one week off with the kids.


47 posted on 06/15/2005 3:22:25 PM PDT by jocon307 (Can we close the border NOW?)
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To: Lorianne

Why doesn't she go to work and he can stay at home and watch the kids? What about equal protection under the law? They have 50/50 time with the kids. He has as much a right to be a shirker as she does. Oh, he's a guy so he gets stuck with all the responsibilites, but none of the rights. The next Civil Rights movement needs to be for fathers who are immediately guilty when they set foot in Family Court.


48 posted on 06/15/2005 3:28:20 PM PDT by GreenOgre (mohammed is the false prophet of a false god.)
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To: blau993
Actually, the story said he had to pay $4,000 MORE a month after his wife stopped working. It never did say what his total payment was.

That was really confusing, wasn't it? I *think* what she meant was 4K in addition to what he spends when the kids live with him and what he is putting away for their college education. So we are talking about him writing a 4K check to the ex-wife every month. Originally he did not write any check to the ex-wife.

49 posted on 06/15/2005 3:30:05 PM PDT by freespirited
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To: GreenOgre

I'm saying that MANY people claim a mom "staying home with the kids" is SO important.

The father in the story is obviously not one of them ... but there are many people, particularly here at FR, who claim that a mom should stay at home with the kids. Where are they now?


50 posted on 06/15/2005 3:33:13 PM PDT by Lorianne
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