Posted on 06/22/2005 5:19:10 AM PDT by thierrya
Jun. 22, 2005 0:50 | Updated Jun. 22, 2005 3:01
China, Israel discuss expanding defense ties
By NINA GILBERT
Expansion of defense ties with Israel was on the agenda during talks with his Israeli counterparts this week, Chinese Foreign Minister Li Zhaoxing said Tuesday.
Li, who spoke at the start of a meeting with the Knesset Foreign Affairs and Defense Committee, did not go into detail about the current dispute between Israel and the US over the Israel upgrade of Chinese Harpy drones.
He said that during his visit he had held talks on expanding ties in the fields of "trade, army, culture, education and tourism."
Foreign Minister Silvan Shalom apologized to US Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice earlier this week over the deal, and expressed hope that the crisis would be quickly resolved.
Defense Minister Director-General Amos Yaron is expected to be sacked as part of the deal to resolve the crisis with the US.
Li was asked by Labor MK Danny Yatom about US-Chinese relations and how the ties were affecting Israel's ability to sell arms to China. Li responded that ties between the US and China were improving, and that the main problem in the ties was Taiwan. He said China also opposed the sale of US arms to Taiwan that could pose a threat to it, according to Yatom, who heads the Israel-China parliamentary friendship association.
Li also told Israel to prepare for an imminent influx of Chinese tourists as an outgrowth of deepening ties.
"I can let you know with some certainty that thousands of Chinese tourists will visit Jerusalem and other parts of the country. You are such an attraction. I have already advised enterprises of this country to prepare more hotel rooms for the upcoming Chinese tourism," he said.
Li also told the MKs that he was moved by his visit to Yad Vashem, saying it made him feel a bond between the Jewish people and the Chinese. He said 20 million Chinese were "slaughtered by the Japanese aggressors" during the same period of World War II.
"We should never forget history, instead we should turn it into united efforts to maintain world peace," he said.
Committee chairman Yuval Steinitz said the relations with China were "extremely" important for Israel, referring to China as the "giant" and Israel as the "dwarf."
degense=defence
However, the problem with Israel can be solved overnight if the US government really puts its foot down and do it like it means it. How long can Israel resist pressure from the US. I don't see, however, the problem with China being fixed any time soon.
The indirect affects of economic trade are one thing, for which you are right in the general sense; although some would argue that China would easily get foreign investment and sell its goods elsewhere if we did not trade with China.
Our allies directly supplying advanced military hardware to China is a whole other dimension and it is not hypocritical of the U.S. to expect Israel to not supply such material to China.
????
Yep, should have been without although I am not sure it traces back to any sexual aberration.
Maybe you should first consider stop footing the Chinese defence bill by buying $300 bln-worth of merchendise from them,
That is a subject all by itself with good arguments on both sides. I will be happy to discuss it but that is not the subject at the moment.
... and then, maybe, consider stopping selling weapons to muslims that eventually will kill the Americans. Ah, whatever.
The US has see-sawed on both sides of this issue since the beginning. We first had to assure Israel's survival since we had helped create them and secondly they were the only democracy in that area. We were in the beginning of the cold war with the USSR arming the Arabs and us arming Israel. We are actually in a continuation of that at the moment. The left has always used surrogates to fight us rather than confront us directly.
It is obviously a mixed bag over there with allegiances changing constantly and policies shifting accordingly. Shortly after Carter allowed the Ayatollahs to overthrow the Shah, Iraq invaded Iran. We preferred Iraq under the circumstances and helped arm them. As an example of shifting allegiances, we invaded them after they invaded Kuwait.
Our alliance with Saudi, Kuwait, Egypt, and many others in the area have also been based in the cold war era and shifted over time due to changes over there.
To those who point out that Saudi supports the terrorists and that we support the Saudi leadership should not take such glee in pointing out the seeming hypocrisy. The world runs on oil. We run on oil. The Saudis and their neighbors sit on most of it. The cold war is still being fought and the Communists are still using surrogates, this time the Islamists. We can't successfully invade and occupy Saudi and wouldn't if we could. We aren't that practical.
So the area must be managed as best it can be under the circumstances. Bill Clinton mismanaged it and Bush is trying to not only straighten that out but to also make bold moves to transform the entire area.
The Arab-Israeli conflict is central to all that. The Arabs and terrorists use Israel as their excuse and rallying cry to keep the historic conflict boiling. That keeps us tied to that, spending lots of money and time best spent elsewhere. It would be nice if Israel would show a little more appreciation.
Yes, that is what we wish we could and would do. Life is so much simpler in black and white. Unfortunately, we are frequently forced into gray areas.
What if they took us up on our dare and chose China? Would China take their side in the current and probably continuing conflict or would they quickly facilitate the extinction of Israel? Since the Arabs are fighting us I suspect China would back them. With Israel gone and the Arabs emboldened and backed by China what would happen to Iraq and the rest of the area? In my view it would be forced to join China and the terrorists and make our security much in doubt.
Life ain't easy and hasn't been since Eve decided to push apples.
This is a good analysis. But I would not agree that Israel is not showing support. But consider Israel's situaltion. She has lost so much blood over recently, both figuratively and literally and keeps on loosing it. The economy has been down the drains with all the terrosism, boycots by governments, churhes and universities. The country is jumping on every opportunity to earn an extra buck. However, if push comes to shove, she will never geopardize its relationship with the US. But, please, give the country a break. It's been cornered and is just trying to survive.
I did not envoke hypocricy. But the effects of the trade with China are direct all right. The money goes straight to developing and buying sophisticated weaponry, if not from Israel than elsewhere. And this weaponry will kill the American soldiers if the US chooses to interfere with the Chinese-Taiwanese conflict on the side of Taiwan (and I'm not even mentioning the long-term challenges). True, China can find other investment sources, let them, but let them not get money from us. And the problem with Israel can be fixed in half a jiffy, if the US government says it like it means it. Yes, the Israelis are desperate, but not crazy.
And India, for that matter.
Already happened. Neighboring muslim countries (not Syria or Lebanon) are already full of modern US weapons.
Besides, are you sure those couple of "Patriot or Arrow systems" will not end up in the hands of terrorists and be used against US troops in the region? So, go ahead, arm Hizbullah.
Your correct, It won't happen.
How do you know China or Russia won't sell U.S. / Israeli weapons to Israels enemies (Iran, Syria)?
"I can let you know with some certainty that thousands of Chinese tourists will visit Jerusalem and other parts of the country. You are such an attraction. I have already advised enterprises of this country to prepare more hotel rooms for the upcoming Chinese tourism"
"and later perhaps we could make out..."
ping.
"To those who point out that Saudi supports the terrorists and that we support the Saudi leadership should not take such glee in pointing out the seeming hypocrisy. The world runs on oil. We run on oil. The Saudis and their neighbors sit on most of it. The cold war is still being fought and the Communists are still using surrogates, this time the Islamists. We can't successfully invade and occupy Saudi and wouldn't if we could. We aren't that practical."
I take no joy. It makes me sick. It is a holdover from Pres Bush 1 Arabist realism. And it is contra to the current President's stated aims and a clearly failed policy of appeasement. That policy got us 15 of 19 attackers on 9/11. That policy continues to placate the number one supporter and exporter of Jihad in the world.
What is the point of draining the swamp in Iraq if the swamp is allowed to grow in SA?
What would happen if we took a hardline with SA? Can they drink their oil? If they don't sell it to us they will sell it elsewhere thus freeing up another supplier. The Arab Oil boycott is not possible today. They can't afford it and are not unified anymore. We are propping up a doomed, corrupt regime that foments anti-US jihadism to stay in power.
As to our not being able to invade or occupy SA, why not? Not saying we should but we certainly could. Sometimes I think our bail out of Kuwait and SA in Gulf 1 was a huge strategic error.
One major difference. In the drone deal under discussion, Israel asked the DOD if they could sell them, and defense said OK. Different administration, I know. Israel doesn't get a say in our sales, four times what we sell to Israel, to her enemies. Who we're commited to keeping in an inferior military position.
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