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Clergy who don't believe in God
The London Times ^ | 5 July 2005 | Ruth Gledhill

Posted on 07/04/2005 6:53:08 PM PDT by Aussie Dasher

Clergy and laity show signs of schism over homosexuality, miracles and the Almighty

HUNDREDS of Church of England clergy doubt the existence of God and fewer than two thirds believe in miracles, a study out today says.

The report, published on the eve of the General Synod, refers to “very fragile faultlines along which the Church of England could be torn apart”. Congregations are much more conservative than most of the comparatively liberal clergy preaching to them.

The report says that if committed Anglicans are clear about one thing it is the existence of God: 97 per cent have no hesitation in affirming His existence. Yet, it continues, one in 33 clerics doubts the existence of God. If reflected throughout the Church’s 9,000 clergy the finding would mean that nearly 300 Church of England clergy are uncertain that God exists.

(Excerpt) Read more at timesonline.co.uk ...


TOPICS: Culture/Society; Extended News; News/Current Events; United Kingdom
KEYWORDS: anglican; anglicans; church; churchofengland; clergy; europeanchristians; god; unbelievable
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This is truly unbelievable!

If these clowns don't believe in God, what exactly do they believe in?

1 posted on 07/04/2005 6:53:09 PM PDT by Aussie Dasher
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To: Aussie Dasher
A minister who doesn't believe in the Bible is like a doctor that doesn't believe in Grey's Anatomy.
2 posted on 07/04/2005 6:54:53 PM PDT by kezekiel
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To: Aussie Dasher
I swear, I think the seminaries were infiltrated by Marxists a decade or so ago, and now we are seeing the poisonous fruit of the effort.
3 posted on 07/04/2005 6:57:52 PM PDT by Fido969 ("The story is true" - Dan Rather)
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To: Aussie Dasher
If these clowns don't believe in God, what exactly do they believe in?

Gay marriage?

4 posted on 07/04/2005 6:58:40 PM PDT by blueberry12
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To: kezekiel
Depends on the church the minister works for, and the kind of doctor we're talking about. 8^)

5 posted on 07/04/2005 7:00:04 PM PDT by LibertarianInExile ("Property must be secured or liberty cannot exist." -- John Adams. "F that." -- SCOTUS, in Kelo.)
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To: Aussie Dasher
HUNDREDS of Church of England clergy doubt the existence of God and fewer than two thirds believe in miracles, a study out today says.

This is the apostate church that will deny Christ and follow a man instead - the Antichrist - who is due to rise to power from the EU.
Pope Paul said the Antichrist is alive and well, and will come out of the liberal New Age movement.

There's nothing in the Bible that says the 666 liberal will be welcomed in the U.S. "World" in the ancient text can also mean land or city. In other worlds, the land they were aware of at the time.

6 posted on 07/04/2005 7:00:16 PM PDT by concerned about politics (Vote Republican - Vote morally correct!)
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To: sionnsar

Ping


7 posted on 07/04/2005 7:01:28 PM PDT by wagglebee ("We are ready for the greatest achievements in the history of freedom." -- President Bush, 1/20/05)
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To: Aussie Dasher

It is a job, you ought to see the house my former rector lives in. I am so glad I got out of that fake church


8 posted on 07/04/2005 7:01:30 PM PDT by mel
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To: Aussie Dasher

They worship the "Palestinians".


9 posted on 07/04/2005 7:02:37 PM PDT by Sabramerican (Sarcasm/Some here don't get it unless you spell it out)
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To: Aussie Dasher

Can you even be a member of the clergy if you don't believe in God? Shouldn't that be met with automatic excommunication?


10 posted on 07/04/2005 7:02:47 PM PDT by TheBigPicture
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To: Aussie Dasher

The Church of England went through a similar period in the eighteenth century, when doubt was endemic among the clergy who basically held their jobs for the perks and not from any religious commitment. The revival led by John Wesley turned things around. Although his direct influence was on the Methodists, he also inspired a revival in the C of E.


11 posted on 07/04/2005 7:03:49 PM PDT by Cicero (Marcus Tullius)
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To: Aussie Dasher
At least the truth comes out.

These guys became preachers because it was a career path like nursing or counseling or sociology. They majored in it in college and seminary. It's a lot like history (that's the whole substance of the Harvard and Yale and other Ivy divinity schools). It is a clinical study of religion, as though religion were a sociological concept. Frikken cute.

There ought to be one requirement for the ministry. The indwelling of the Holy Spirit. Period.

Anyone that doesn't believe that isn't a believer.

12 posted on 07/04/2005 7:04:56 PM PDT by Dark Skies
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To: TheBigPicture

I have to wonder what they're doing there in the first place...


13 posted on 07/04/2005 7:05:44 PM PDT by Aussie Dasher (The Great Ronald Reagan & John Paul II - Heaven's Dream Team!)
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To: jan in Colorado

Check this one out.


14 posted on 07/04/2005 7:05:46 PM PDT by Dark Skies
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To: ahadams2; anselmcantuar; Agrarian; coffeecup; Paridel; keilimon; Hermann the Cherusker; ...
Thanks to wagglebee for spotting this.

Sigh, I've heard of this before. Such clergy think of themselves simply as "providing a service."

Traditional Anglican ping, continued in memory of its founder Arlin Adams.

FReepmail sionnsar if you want on or off this moderately high-volume ping list (typically 3-7 pings/day).
This list is pinged by sionnsar and newheart.

Resource for Traditional Anglicans: http://trad-anglican.faithweb.com

Speak the truth in love. Eph 4:15

15 posted on 07/04/2005 7:05:48 PM PDT by sionnsar (†trad-anglican.faithweb.com† || Iran Azadi || Kyoto: Split Atoms, not Wood)
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To: Aussie Dasher

Nothing but it is a good way to make a living.


16 posted on 07/04/2005 7:06:21 PM PDT by rudyudy
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To: blueberry12
If these clowns don't believe in God, what exactly do they believe in?

Spiritual guidance without a Holy Spirit
Church as a social function
Helping community without knowing where all help originates

Sailing in very deep waters without an anchor, compass, or maps

Pitiful
17 posted on 07/04/2005 7:06:47 PM PDT by HangnJudge
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To: concerned about politics

Yepper - the signs are all there. My Pastor says to look for someone from the EU that is a great economist as the Anti-Christ. The churches are becoming more and more apostate which means that Satan has infiltrated them as the "liberals" have infiltrated our own government.


18 posted on 07/04/2005 7:07:04 PM PDT by trebb ("I am the way... no one comes to the Father, but by me..." - Jesus in John 14:6 (RSV))
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To: Aussie Dasher
It seems to me, this is a major risk in state established churches. Eventually, the clergy become state-sanctioned, mid-level bureaucrats with degrees in social work and all decked out in a thin veneer of "ritual."
19 posted on 07/04/2005 7:07:09 PM PDT by pollyannaish
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To: Aussie Dasher

Big deal - I'm a social worker but I don't believe in Socialism. I just believe in helping people.


20 posted on 07/04/2005 7:08:19 PM PDT by Senator Pardek
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To: Aussie Dasher
And this kind of 'liberalness' seems to be spreading, as per clergy in other faiths as well that don't take their vows or the teachings of their faiths seriously and lead many astray.

If these clowns don't believe in God, what exactly do they believe in?

Doesn't matter, as long as it's not the 'traditional' interpretation of 'God'. Afterall, a 'merciful' and 'loving' God would not deny gays the right to marry, etc. They assume our interpretation of God and the Bible all these centuries has been wrong and they are the saviors to come along and rescue us. And just as long as we become enlightened by them and go along with them. These are the first to openly and on record admit their unbelief that I have read, but I don't believe they'll be the last. I'm searching for the link I read a few months ago about Priests in Austria or the Czech Repub who kind of said the same thing. The real question: is anyone disagreeing with them or have they all been swayed?

21 posted on 07/04/2005 7:09:27 PM PDT by fortunecookie
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To: Senator Pardek

Fair enough - but you'd reckon a minister of religion would at the very least believe in God!


22 posted on 07/04/2005 7:09:50 PM PDT by Aussie Dasher (The Great Ronald Reagan & John Paul II - Heaven's Dream Team!)
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To: Aussie Dasher
Sir Humphrey Appleby: "The Queen is an inseparable part of the Church of England!"

Prime Minister James Hacker: "And what about God?"

Sir Humphrey Appleby: "I think He is what is known as an optional extra."

--Yes Prime Minister

23 posted on 07/04/2005 7:10:45 PM PDT by Loyalist (No confidence in Mr. Dithers.)
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To: Loyalist

Sir Humphrey was before his time!


24 posted on 07/04/2005 7:11:44 PM PDT by Aussie Dasher (The Great Ronald Reagan & John Paul II - Heaven's Dream Team!)
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To: Aussie Dasher
If these clowns don't believe in God, what exactly do they believe in?

A minister that doesn't believe in God reminds me of a Democrat that doesn't believe in government.

These aren't ministers. They are con men.

25 posted on 07/04/2005 7:13:13 PM PDT by stevem
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To: Aussie Dasher

Sounds like some Unitarians I know.


26 posted on 07/04/2005 7:17:57 PM PDT by Vaquero ("an armed society is a polite society" Robert Heinlein)
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To: Fido969

You are absolutely correct, except the Marxists infiltrated back in the late '50's or early '60's.

This is indeed the poisoned fruit.

Read up on the World Council of Churches or the National Council of Churches. It'll flat curl your hair.


27 posted on 07/04/2005 7:18:23 PM PDT by Humidston (Hillary's Full Name - EVITA PEYRONie's CLINTON)
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To: Aussie Dasher


.


Praise GOD that...

LOVE is the only reality and that...

GOD is LOVE.


.


28 posted on 07/04/2005 7:19:56 PM PDT by ALOHA RONNIE ("ALOHA RONNIE" Guyer/Veteran-"WE WERE SOLDIERS" Battle of IA DRANG-1965 http://www.lzxray.com)
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To: Aussie Dasher
> If these clowns don't believe in God, what exactly do they believe in?

I do believe you have invented the next national parlor game.

10. Organic brown rice
9. Collection plates
8. Global warming
7. The return of the Mother Ship
6. Gaia
5. Public opinion polls
4. Therapy
3. Group nudity
2. Pedophilia
1. Entrails

29 posted on 07/04/2005 7:20:14 PM PDT by T'wit ("My little jokes don't hurt nobody. But when Congress makes a joke, it's the LAW!" -- Will Rogers)
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To: T'wit

11. Tofu

;-)


30 posted on 07/04/2005 7:22:05 PM PDT by Humidston (Hillary's Full Name - EVITA PEYRONie's CLINTON)
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To: Humidston

There's plenty of athiest clergy right here in the United States. We saw many of them rallying for Kerry last year, and then there's that 'Separation of Church and State' group that says they are clergy, when in fact they are athiests.


31 posted on 07/04/2005 7:23:03 PM PDT by Lancey Howard
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To: Vaquero

Sounds like some Unitarians I know.

Faith without Creed - Unitarians
http://www.uua.org/pamphlet/3089.html

At least they are upfront with their unbelief
The Anglicans have no such excuse


32 posted on 07/04/2005 7:23:13 PM PDT by HangnJudge
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To: sionnsar
Sigh, I've heard of this before. Such clergy think of themselves simply as "providing a service."

So why does their book say The Book of Common Prayer? Who are they praying to?

33 posted on 07/04/2005 7:26:25 PM PDT by concerned about politics (Vote Republican - Vote morally correct!)
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To: stevem

They may be con men or they may simply be occupying a job. I see the unbeliever ministers much like union auto workers. They don't really believe in the work they do or in the results. They're just there and keep on going.

But when they don't believe in anything, then what is there to get excited about? There is no literal Presence. The Holy Spirit is just a concept. Jesus may or may not have actually lived, but he was just a pretty good man with occasional bouts of temper. No difference between Jesus and Buddha or Mohammed, really.

How can you be excited about anything when nothing really matters and everything is symbolic at best?

Satan has his shoes off and his feet on the desk. His work is being carried on by a number of believers, but more unbelievers. After all the devil doesn't require that you believe in him, just that you do what he will.


34 posted on 07/04/2005 7:26:35 PM PDT by MarkBsnr (When you believe in nothing, then everything is acceptable.)
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To: Aussie Dasher
If these clowns don't believe in God, what exactly do they believe in?\

Pension funds?

35 posted on 07/04/2005 7:27:26 PM PDT by Podkayne (Islam is a lie. Allah is not Jehovah. Burkas are evil.)
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To: Aussie Dasher
HUNDREDS of Church of England clergy doubt the existence of God and fewer than two thirds believe in miracles, a study out today says.

"Clergy" who disbelieve in God are accepting their salaries under false pretenses. They are common thieves.

36 posted on 07/04/2005 7:28:24 PM PDT by Semi Civil Servant
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To: Aussie Dasher
"HUNDREDS of Church of England clergy doubt the existence of God and fewer than two thirds believe in miracles, a study out today says. "

The Bible warns us of shepherds who lead the sheep astray. There is gonna be one hell of a price to pay! Congregations should send these charlatans packing because they are a blight on Gods creation.

37 posted on 07/04/2005 7:28:37 PM PDT by patriot_wes (papal infallibility - a proud tradition since 1869)
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To: Lancey Howard
There's plenty of athiest clergy right here in the United States.

Absolutely! I couldn't agree more.

38 posted on 07/04/2005 7:30:38 PM PDT by Humidston (Hillary's Full Name - EVITA PEYRONie's CLINTON)
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To: T'wit

You forgot kwaanza.


39 posted on 07/04/2005 7:33:22 PM PDT by theymakemesick (Adjusted for inflation, Clinton's 1997 $42m inauguration cost 25% more than W's $40m in 2005)
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To: Aussie Dasher

Sounds somewhat self limiting to me. Who would go to church to be preached at by an atheist?


40 posted on 07/04/2005 7:34:38 PM PDT by bill1952 ("All that we do is done with an eye towards something else.")
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To: Aussie Dasher

Psalm 26:4-9 I have not sat with vain persons, niether will I goin with dissemblers. 5 I have hated the congregation of evil doers; and will not sit with the wicked. 6 I will wash mine hands of innocency: so will I compass thine altar, O Lord 7 That I may publish with the voice of thanksgiving, and tell of all thy wondrous works 8 Lord, I have loved the habitation of thy house and the place where thine honour dwelleth. 9 Gather not my soul with sinners, nor my life with bloody men.


41 posted on 07/04/2005 7:37:23 PM PDT by diverteach
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To: Aussie Dasher
...and fewer than two thirds believe in miracles.

Here's Paul's scriptural test for any church -

"But I will come to you shortly, if the Lord wills, and I will test, not the word of those who are puffed up, but the power. For the kingdom of God is not in word but in power. " 1 Cor 4:19-20

It appears these churches fail the test.

42 posted on 07/04/2005 7:39:43 PM PDT by aimhigh
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To: trebb
Yepper - the signs are all there.

"They will have a form of Godliness, but lack the power of it."

43 posted on 07/04/2005 7:40:49 PM PDT by concerned about politics (Vote Republican - Vote morally correct!)
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To: Aussie Dasher

$


44 posted on 07/04/2005 7:45:53 PM PDT by skimbell
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To: Lancey Howard

T'anks-- you said it as good as-- Nah you have said it better than I could--but then as the local daily said I'm so far to the right of Ronald Reagan I make him seem like a new Dealer.The local homosexuals have their activists call everytime I got published to call me a bible thumper.
But I've seen a lot of kids enrolled in Bible Colleges who
do not believe in God-- most don't even believe the Bible
to be relevant to todays world-hence the gays in the pulpit-and same sex marriage -- and all--look up-our salvation draws nigh.


45 posted on 07/04/2005 7:50:25 PM PDT by StonyBurk
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To: kezekiel
"A minister who doesn't believe in the Bible is like a doctor that doesn't believe in Grey's Anatomy."

Or like a Supreme Court Justice who doesn't believe in the Constitution.

46 posted on 07/04/2005 8:02:11 PM PDT by sageb1 (This is the Final Crusade. There are only 2 sides. Pick one.)
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To: Fido969

"I swear, I think the seminaries were infiltrated by Marxists a decade or so ago, and now we are seeing the poisonous fruit of the effort."

I think it's more like 3 or 4 decades ago


47 posted on 07/04/2005 8:02:12 PM PDT by Mount Athos
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To: concerned about politics
So why does their book say "The Book of Common Prayer"? Who are they praying to?

' First off, throw the question of the title (of the '79) to the Rev. Dr. Peter Toon, and prepare to stand back. Second, as I noted, they think of themselves as providing a service ("if it makes them feel better...").

And third, as a PK ("preacher's kid") I can confidently inform you that priests and ministers are just as human as you and me, and that sometimes some of them go through periods of questioning their faith too -- and that sometimes, unfortunately, they don't come through such.

(I'm not considering here those with other agendas...)

48 posted on 07/04/2005 8:03:43 PM PDT by sionnsar (†trad-anglican.faithweb.com† || Iran Azadi || Kyoto: Split Atoms, not Wood)
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To: sionnsar
"(I'm not considering here those with other agendas...)"

Like the International Humanist and Ethical Union? Or Swing's URI?

49 posted on 07/04/2005 8:06:51 PM PDT by sageb1 (This is the Final Crusade. There are only 2 sides. Pick one.)
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To: sageb1

Bingo. And worse.


50 posted on 07/04/2005 8:08:56 PM PDT by sionnsar (†trad-anglican.faithweb.com† || Iran Azadi || Kyoto: Split Atoms, not Wood)
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