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Is the Drug War a Conservative or Liberal Issue? (Warning: I am a Newbie to starting posts)
Sensei Ern

Posted on 07/05/2005 9:30:27 AM PDT by Sensei Ern

For many years, I have been a strong opponent of legalizing drugs. As you read this, remember that I am still against drug legalization, but I have more sympathy for the opposing argument.

The reason I have been opposed to drug legalization is to protect children. I grew up in a home that was one step up from a crack house..at least we had heat and food. I know first hand what can happen when a child lives in those conditions.

As a counter, I have always felt that use of tobacco and alcohol should be legal for those of a responsible age.

The reason I am considering a change is because of the pain I went through this last month. Four weeks ago, I had a root canal done on a tooth...it was Friday. Once the Novocain wore off, I was in serious pain because the doctor was inexperienced and left a partial root. I experienced pain worse than listening to Rosanne Barr sing the National Anthem. He forgot to write a prescription.

I called the emergency number only to be told I could see the doctor on Monday. TWO WHOLE DAYS IN EXTREME PAIN! I had some 800mg Ibuprofen in the medicine cabinet. That only took away enough pain to convince myself to not commit suicide to stop the pain.

On Monday, I was given a prescription of Tylenol 3 with Codeine and an antibiotic. That took away the pain. Until it ran out. Again, extreme pain. Another dentist did another root canal...and again did not get the whole root. I made sure he gave me a prescription for the pain, before I left the office.

Finally, when that ran out, and another dentist completed the root canal, the pain has subsided.

To be in the kind of debilitating pain I was in, cannot be described. Bill Cosby once talked about taking your bottom lip and pulling it over your head...that comes close.

I have always been an advocate of personal responsibility. That conflicted with knowing that some of the drugs offered today are so dangerous that they needed to be regulated. Then, I thought back about how things were a hundred years ago. The doctor prescribed a treatment, and you either made it yourself, or went to the pharmacist, who mixed up the more potential drugs.

Back then, the only regulation was, could you afford the cost? Drugs were available, and the pharmacist would determine whether you were abusing. If you OD'd on a drug from abuse, you died and life went on for others. But, you could get drugs if they were needed, and you did not have to wait until Monday. You didn't need to wait for approval from anyone to use a drug.

That is enough about that for the moment.

If drugs were to be legalized, they should be regulated like alcohol and cigarettes...have a legal purchasing age. Also, if you do harm to another while under the influence of anything, you should be held personally responsible...to the fullest extent, especially capital punishment for causing a death. If you are taking drugs to get high, strap yourself into a chair and sleep it off.

If drugs were immediately legalized, we could expect some immediate effects. For one, the drug addicts would run out and by everything, and we would have a rash of overdosing for about a month. The rest of us could then go on with our lives, only mourning the loss of a relative, instead of daily living with the horror of a drug addict in our lives.

Currently, I believe law enforcement should be stronger. But, I could be moved to undecided if I heard good arguments for the opposite.

--Pray for our troops --Pray they have wisdom to do the right thing --Pray they remain courageous --Pray they know we love and support them --Pray they get the equipment they need to do the job --Pray for their safe return home to a hero’s welcome


TOPICS: Culture/Society
KEYWORDS: drugs; drugskilledbelushi; drugskilledchris; drugskilledjanis; getthecopshigh; letsgetstonned; personal; responsibility; wannagethigh; wodlist
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To: Sensei Ern

3 million overdosing? No way. You essentially have access to any drug you want now, if you want it bad enough, and there are not that many people who OD. As for the need for painkillers, I am one of those who has medical problems and sometimes I need the good stuff just to function. So i wish all the anti-drug people could be in the same situation - oxicodone worked great but I doubt I could get any now. 20 tablets got me through 6 months, so it isn't like I'm some user, just the WOT has negative consequences on many levels.


101 posted on 07/05/2005 10:44:17 AM PDT by FastCoyote
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To: my_pointy_head_is_sharp

Are you for a free society or one where the government dictates your every move? Free societies allow men and women to decide things for themselves. Totalitarian governments so not.


102 posted on 07/05/2005 10:44:43 AM PDT by Blood of Tyrants (G-d is not a Republican. But Satan is definitely a Democrat.)
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To: my_pointy_head_is_sharp
You are in the wrong forum. You want the DU, down the hall and to your left.

No he doesn't. Liberals are the ones who want the government to get involved in every aspect of our private lives, restricting our freedom "for our own good." Conservatives are the ones who want the government to butt out and leave us alone, to let us exercise our freedoms, to choose our own risks, and to do what we want unless we harm a nonconsenting other. Or at least that's the way it's supposed to be.

103 posted on 07/05/2005 10:44:47 AM PDT by Politicalities (http://www.politicalities.com)
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To: FastCoyote

oooops, that would be WOD not the WOT, sorry.


104 posted on 07/05/2005 10:45:15 AM PDT by FastCoyote
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To: MEGoody

When I got my head kicked in by a bunch of drunks, I took great solace in the fact that at least they weren't on illegal drugs.


105 posted on 07/05/2005 10:46:05 AM PDT by wingnutx (Seabees Can Do!)
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To: LexBaird
Give me the right to shoot tweekers dead on the spot if they assault me or mine, and I might agree.

As far as I know, every state in the union allows the use of deadly force to defend oneself from assault. Where do you not have the right to shoot junkies (or, for that matter, perfectly sober people) dead on the spot if they assault you or yours?

106 posted on 07/05/2005 10:46:34 AM PDT by Politicalities (http://www.politicalities.com)
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To: wingnutx
When I got my head kicked in by a bunch of drunks, I took great solace in the fact that at least they weren't on illegal drugs.

Dude. You don't want to hear what he has to say about alcohol.

107 posted on 07/05/2005 10:47:12 AM PDT by Politicalities (http://www.politicalities.com)
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To: MEGoody

"When your sister has been raped and thrown out a window by someone who is high, let me know."

Gee, if the war on drug money had been devoted to taking violent offenders, rapists and thieves off the street for good, don't you think your sister wouldn't have been raped and thrown out that window because the police had already incarcerated the miscreant?


108 posted on 07/05/2005 10:49:05 AM PDT by FastCoyote
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To: Politicalities
Hey, suppose his sister caught a bullet in the crossfire from a violent turf war fought over illegal, drugs, can he have an opinion then?

Sure, then he'd have a vested interest - it wouldn't just be theoretical at that point.

What if his sister had her home burglarized by a desperate addict forced to pay prices that are inflated several orders of magnitude by the war on drugs, can he have an opinion then?

Are you claiming that 'desparate addicts' will work to buy their drugs instead of stealing if drugs are legalized? I doubt that.

What if his sister was a judge in Colombia, executed by powerful and exceedingly well-funded organized criminals, then can he have an opinion?

Do you think the drug lords are going to become model citizens if drugs are legalized? I doubt it.

Suppose his sister is going broke paying higher taxes both to pay for this insane civil war and to make up the shortfall from billions of dollars flowing through the entirely tax-free black market, is he allowed to have an opinion then?

Do you think taxes would go down if drugs were legalized? Do you think the druggies wouldn't have to be sought out and arrested from some other crime committed while they were high? I doubt that.

If his sister's best friend died of an accidental overdose because her drug of choice was not labeled for potency like alcohol is, then does he get to have an opinion?

If his sister was this girl's best friend, she'd be working to get her off drugs, not to legalize them.

Drug prohibition has not prevented it.

And legalizing drugs will only make it worse.

109 posted on 07/05/2005 10:50:03 AM PDT by MEGoody (Ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.)
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To: Pessimist
As I have been told right here so many times, our gov't is here to legislate morality.

Unlike our liberal counterparts, I don't need the gov't to lead me down the 'correct path' of life.
110 posted on 07/05/2005 10:51:34 AM PDT by downtoliberalism ("A coalition partner must do more than just express sympathy, a coalition partner must perform,")
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To: Blood of Tyrants
It happened after Prohibition ended.

Before I'd buy that, you'd have to present proof of long term model citizenhood of former bootleggers on a wide ranging scale, not one or two stories. And not a short term drop in crime.

111 posted on 07/05/2005 10:52:58 AM PDT by MEGoody (Ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.)
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To: LexBaird

The little guy on the street is isn't the big problem, it's the source. I'd rather have the cops going after that.


112 posted on 07/05/2005 10:53:18 AM PDT by Indy Pendance
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To: Politicalities
Yessir, there's no such thing as a law-abiding purveyor of alcohol!

Are you being purposely dense or is this your natural state?

113 posted on 07/05/2005 10:53:52 AM PDT by MEGoody (Ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.)
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To: need_a_screen_name; All

I happen to be in the decriminalizing.. Jails need the rooms for Child Molestors and viloent criminals..


114 posted on 07/05/2005 10:54:32 AM PDT by KevinDavis (the space/future belongs to the eagles, the earth/past to the groundhogs)
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To: Pessimist
Not really. What if some tub of lard gets a heart attack while driving?

When you can show me the rate of fat people having car accidents because of their fat is as high as the rate of violent crimes committed by people who are high, then we'll talk.

Try blaming the a##hole - not the drugs.

Funny, this a##holes rap sheet is full - and it's all related to drug use. He doesn't have one crime in his rap sheet prior to his first bust for violent behavior committed while he was high.

115 posted on 07/05/2005 10:56:36 AM PDT by MEGoody (Ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.)
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To: FastCoyote
Gee, if the war on drug money had been devoted to taking violent offenders, rapists and thieves off the street for good, don't you think your sister wouldn't have been raped and thrown out that window because the police had already incarcerated the miscreant?

Every offense on this guy's rap sheet was committed while he was high. But I guess you had to give it a shot.

116 posted on 07/05/2005 10:57:46 AM PDT by MEGoody (Ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.)
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To: softwarecreator
If an adult wants to stick a needle in himself while wasting his life ... go for it, I'll just step over the body on the way home to my wife and family.

That argument falls apart when you consider our socialist welfare agenda. You will have to pay for his hospitalization, care and ultimately...his funeral.

117 posted on 07/05/2005 10:57:53 AM PDT by Lekker 1 ("Who the hell wants to hear actors talk?"- Harry M. Warner, Warner Bros., 1927)
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To: wingnutx
When I got my head kicked in by a bunch of drunks, I took great solace in the fact that at least they weren't on illegal drugs.

I wouldn't be opposed to making alcohol illegal - but you may have already figured that out.

118 posted on 07/05/2005 10:58:40 AM PDT by MEGoody (Ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.)
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To: KC_for_Freedom
I believe the full legalization (like alcohol and smokes) has been tried and has not been pretty . (the Netherlands)

How so?

119 posted on 07/05/2005 10:59:13 AM PDT by Ken H
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To: my_pointy_head_is_sharp

I think you dulled your pointy head by thinking too much.

I don't abuse drugs. I saw first hand as a child what drug abuse can do. I want no part of that as an adult. I also have no tolerance of drug abusers.

I did not say I don't use drugs because I do use codine when prescribed, for the ease of pain. I also use aspirin and other normal medicine, in appropriate manners.

I definately do not appreciate you calling me a liar.

I did not make it up. I go to the same dentist as I always have. But, the dentist who has worked on my teeth for the last five years has seen his practice grow substantially. He has hired some other dentists to assist him and he has moved more into the administration of the practice rather than the actual drilling.

He is excellent in doing root canals. He did emergency dental work in an emergency room for ten years prior to openning his practice(he explained that in an emergency room, he did dental work on patients who were in car accidents and other such emergencies where dental damage was present).

Now, his assistants range in talent from the best in their field to rank amatuers. The first guy, I was his first live, out of school root canal. Hence, all the screw ups...not completing it, forgetting the prescription. The reason I was told by my main dentitst that the second dentist did not get it all was that the first one mangled the root canal so bad that the second missed some of it.

This is a lot of information, but I doubt it will convince you I am telling the truth.

I am sure you will ask why I did not bring a malpractice suit. I am just not one to do that. My dentist is a friend.




With the info aside, explain to me why, in a conservative arguement - not a "that's the way it is and provide examples of other ways we regulate behaviour" arguement, as to why we who are capable of controlling our behaviour must be hindered due to the irresponsibility of others.


120 posted on 07/05/2005 10:59:20 AM PDT by Sensei Ern (Christian, Comedian, Husband,Opa, Dog Owner, former Cat Co-dweller, and all around good guy.)
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To: Dan(9698)
It is because of the cost to everyone else when you get screwed up and have to have everyone else take care of you.

It is the same with AIDS and other "freedom" junk

Do you support mandatory seat belt laws and a crackdown on fatty foods?

121 posted on 07/05/2005 11:01:18 AM PDT by Ken H
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To: Politicalities
Every place that will not issue permits to carry. Or hold harmless for manslaughter charges for "excessive force". Or would charge someone for firearms possession.

But my greater point is this: most of the so-called libertarian anti-drug war advocates you see have nothing to say on the responsibility side of the equation.

If the consequence of indiscriminate drug use was unemployment without legal recourse, cirrhosis of the liver without government medicaid, dying in an alley without anyone stopping to look, mandatory attempted murder charges against anyone driving a vehicle with ANY intoxicant in their system, etc., then I might have more sympathy to their cause. But as long as society has to carry the burden of the dregs of druggies, it also has the right to try to abate the problem in any way the society collectively decides.

122 posted on 07/05/2005 11:03:25 AM PDT by LexBaird (tyrannosaurus Lex, unapologetic carnivore)
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To: Ken H
How so?

For starters, there has been a marked increase in drum circles and pachouli sales.

123 posted on 07/05/2005 11:03:58 AM PDT by wingnutx (Seabees Can Do!)
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To: softwarecreator
Works along the same line as you can take a girl out and spend lots of money in an attempt to end up in bed with that person, yet prostitution is illegal.

That raises another question (no longer related to the thread, really): Why on earth is it illegal to pay a woman for sex, yet it is somehow legal to pay a woman to have sex on camera for a porno?

124 posted on 07/05/2005 11:04:08 AM PDT by Junior_G
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To: MEGoody
Sure, then he'd have a vested interest - it wouldn't just be theoretical at that point.

Got it. So men have no right to an opinion on abortion, civilians have no right to an opinion on military spending, and Northerners had no right to an opinion on slavery. You've got a funny system of beliefs, anyone ever tell you that?

Are you claiming that 'desparate addicts' will work to buy their drugs instead of stealing if drugs are legalized? I doubt that.

Doubt it all you want, it's still true. You don't see people committing robberies to buy cigarettes, and you don't see flourishing black markets in cigarettes, because cigarettes are legal and (relatively) cheap. During the aftermath of World War II, when tobacco was in short supply in Germany, respectable middle-class citizens were picking cigarette butts out of the garbage, something they admitted they normally never would have done, but the restricted supply forced them into it.

The pharmaceutical cost of heroin is about $0.02 per dose. Nobody would commit a burglary (and take the risk of prison time and/or injury by an irate and/or armed homeowner) to pay for that.

Do you think the drug lords are going to become model citizens if drugs are legalized? I doubt it.

No, I think the drug lords will lose their source of funding and become powerless, just as the alcohol gangs of the Prohibition era faded away when that insane policy ended. The drug lords have power because they have an immense quantity of income, all of which would vanish virtually overnight were the black market eradicated by legalization.

Do you think taxes would go down if drugs were legalized?

Yup, just as I think that taxes are lower than they'd otherwise be if the government didn't have a huge source of income from taxing the sale of alcohol and tobacco. In my state, 3.8% of all revenue comes from taxing alcohol and tobacco. If we didn't have that income, it'd have to come from elsewhere, hence taxes would be higher. That doesn't include expenses for enforcement of any prohibition on alcohol or tobacco. If we did not have to spend money to enforce prohibition of drugs, and if we had additional revenue from taxation of drugs, other taxes could decrease.

Do you think the druggies wouldn't have to be sought out and arrested from some other crime committed while they were high?

Well, let's see. We wouldn't need to arrest people for possession. We wouldn't need to arrest people for engaging in turf wars, since the turf wars wouldn't exist. (We'd also, of course, spare ourselves the body count from such tragedies.) You seem to be under the impression that drugs take control of you and force you to commit crimes. There are quite literally millions of drug users in the United States, the vast majority of whom commit no crimes beyond simple possession.

If his sister was this girl's best friend, she'd be working to get her off drugs, not to legalize them.

Do you have any friends who drink alcohol? Do you think they'd be better off if alcohol were not labeled for potency, so they had no idea how much of the potentially-fatal drug they were consuming?

And legalizing drugs will only make it worse.

Oh, hey, if you say so. You don't need to provide any evidence or anything, just as long as you assert it, I guess that makes it so. Never mind the enormous evidence that the War on Drugs causes far, far more crimes (and deaths) than it prevents, we'll just ignore it, because you say so.

125 posted on 07/05/2005 11:05:08 AM PDT by Politicalities (http://www.politicalities.com)
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To: Indy Pendance

If our lawmakers actually put true thought into our laws, we would not have the feeling-based, reactionary, "WE GOTTA DO SOMETHING!" laws they have passed in the past few decades.


126 posted on 07/05/2005 11:07:43 AM PDT by Sensei Ern (Christian, Comedian, Husband,Opa, Dog Owner, former Cat Co-dweller, and all around good guy.)
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To: MEGoody
Yessir, there's no such thing as a law-abiding purveyor of alcohol!

Are you being purposely dense or is this your natural state?

Hey, don't blame me, I'm just taking your argument to its natural conclusion. You claim that legalization wouldn't end the black market, despite the fact that it's clearly done so in the case of alcohol.

127 posted on 07/05/2005 11:07:47 AM PDT by Politicalities (http://www.politicalities.com)
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To: softwarecreator

My assumption is that one can have a drink or two without it affecting him the way a smoking pot would. That's a bare bones thought.

I'm no expert on this matter though. I tend to observe these threads from afar, let the people who are used to debating it be without my messing around. :)


128 posted on 07/05/2005 11:09:05 AM PDT by baseballfanjm
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To: Indy Pendance
The little guy on the street is isn't the big problem, it's the source. I'd rather have the cops going after that.

I'd rather have cops doing both. It isn't a zero-sum game. As Guliani's "Broken Window" theory has borne out in NYC, the toleration of small crimes creates the atmosphere for large crimes to flourish.

But, tell you what, next time your house is burglarized or your business vandalized, just call the cops and tell 'em not to bother. Tell 'em to spend the time solving a murder instead.

129 posted on 07/05/2005 11:09:34 AM PDT by LexBaird (tyrannosaurus Lex, unapologetic carnivore)
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To: Politicalities
Hey, don't blame me, I'm just taking your argument to its natural conclusion.

I'm not sure whose argument you are attempting to take to a 'natural conclusion' but it wasn't mine. So again, are you being purposely dense or is this your natural state?

Of course there are legal sellers of alcoholic beverages now, because alcohol is legal. But do you think those who were bootleggers kept selling alcohol after prohibition was repealed, or do you think they took up some other criminal activity?

The latter makes more sense. I've never seen anything to support the former. If you have some solid proof, feel free to present it.

130 posted on 07/05/2005 11:12:11 AM PDT by MEGoody (Ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.)
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To: baseballfanjm

I'd rather ride in a car driven by someone who just had two hits off a bong than I would someone who just drank two martinis.


131 posted on 07/05/2005 11:12:18 AM PDT by Trampled by Lambs (This Tagline is on hiatus as I think of a new one.)
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To: LexBaird
If the consequence of indiscriminate drug use was unemployment without legal recourse, cirrhosis of the liver without government medicaid, dying in an alley without anyone stopping to look, mandatory attempted murder charges against anyone driving a vehicle with ANY intoxicant in their system, etc., then I might have more sympathy to their cause. But as long as society has to carry the burden of the dregs of druggies, it also has the right to try to abate the problem in any way the society collectively decides.

You are arguing, in essence, that the existence of social services that transfer costs for individual health-harming decisions to the populace in general (which I oppose, by the way) means that you no longer "own" your body and society has the right to impose restrictions on your behavior in order to protect its own interest in your health. Recognize that the exact same argument could be used to justify government prohibitions on auto racing, Big Macs, sugary snacks, and to justify government mandates on seatbelts, helmets, toothbrushing, and/or just living in hermetically-sealed plastic bubbles.

Again, I don't like the gradual erosion of our culture of personal responsibility. If someone is dumb enough to harm himself -- by injecting heroin, drinking alcohol, smoking tobacco, racing an automobile, or jumping out of an airplane with a not-infallible parachute -- let him assume that risk, and let him bear the associated costs. But just because I'm a minority in this viewpoint and because the democratic majority has decided to require society to bear some of these costs is no justification for restricting personal liberty.

132 posted on 07/05/2005 11:12:31 AM PDT by Politicalities (http://www.politicalities.com)
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To: MEGoody

Not arguing against you, but every one of your arguments can and should be used in the alcohol arena. Yet we as a society, continue to accept the fact that alcohol is not a drug such as heroin or such. Continuing to outlaw contriband does not solve the problem, obvious in the alcohol example. The difference is, we don't spend billions of dollars a year trying to reduce the use, and take in millions of dollars a year in tax revenue. And once again, I believe this to be the case of legislating morality. If society were truly tired of the results of impared peoples actions, we would make those actions unacceptable, period.


133 posted on 07/05/2005 11:13:18 AM PDT by downtoliberalism ("A coalition partner must do more than just express sympathy, a coalition partner must perform,")
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To: Blood of Tyrants

DING! DING! DING! DING!

It was on a DC Metro bus, in Maryland.


134 posted on 07/05/2005 11:14:08 AM PDT by Sensei Ern (Christian, Comedian, Husband,Opa, Dog Owner, former Cat Co-dweller, and all around good guy.)
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To: Indy Pendance
they'll continue with the current status quo.

The users like that the drugs can be found

The enforcers have a job that is exciting and makes them feel good.

The politicians can rant and rave

The dealers make lots of money

Smugglers and growers have short thrilling lives and also make lots of money.

Everyone likes the status quo except maybe the taxpayers, but even they believe that their tax money is going to hold the level of usage down.

135 posted on 07/05/2005 11:15:08 AM PDT by KC_for_Freedom (Sailing the highways of America, and loving it.)
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To: Lekker 1; softwarecreator
You will have to pay for his hospitalization, care and ultimately...his funeral.

Not to mention the government support for his widow and children until they are old enough to decide if they want to become drug addicts too.

136 posted on 07/05/2005 11:15:37 AM PDT by LexBaird (tyrannosaurus Lex, unapologetic carnivore)
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To: Politicalities
Alcohol and tobacco are not the same as illegal drugs. More people use alcohol and tobacco than drugs. So your statistics need to reflect this. They also must reflect the frequency and amount of use. Drugs can be far more addictive. And tobacco does not interfere with a persons ability to drive safely. Drugs also can be easily used to exploit people, especially children. Alcohol and tobacco can be used safely in moderation; illegal drugs cannot.

Legalizing drugs would result in more people using drugs, more children using drugs, more drug related traffic accidents and fatalities, more addicts and more breakdown of the family structure.

I believe in personal responsibility - and it is the responsible thing for everyone to abstain from illegal drugs. It is responsible for my elected representatives to allow this reality to be reflected in the legal code. It is responsible for law enforcement to punish those who engage in the irresponsible activity of drug abuse. By doing so they are protecting me and my family from the destructive, irresponsible behavior of drug abusers.
137 posted on 07/05/2005 11:15:37 AM PDT by unlearner
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To: Ken H

My recollection is that the usage soared and the locals were left with take over of public places by users in various states of "high". I believe they have back tracked on the degree of "openness" they will accept. Maybe others know more.


138 posted on 07/05/2005 11:16:57 AM PDT by KC_for_Freedom (Sailing the highways of America, and loving it.)
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To: MEGoody
I'm not sure whose argument you are attempting to take to a 'natural conclusion' but it wasn't mine

Oh, sure it was. Your statement was "So legalize drugs and the guys who sell them will suddenly become law-abiding citizens? Riiiiiiiight." This was in response to someone else's statement "Legalize drugs and you will defund the gangs." But this is true. We legalized alcohol, and all the criminal gangs of Prohibition faded away.

We tend to have a view of Prohibition as kind of a time of charismatic gangsters in their dapper suits, but these were in fact vicious criminals who gunned down competitors and innocents alike. Why were they able to do this? Because they were flush with cash from supplying a demand. We removed the black market, and thus removed their funding, and drive-by shootings became a thing of the past... until the War on Drugs really got into high gear in the mid-70s and we doomed ourselves to repeat the unremembered past.

Will the individual drug dealers become law-abiding citizens? Perhaps, perhaps not. Realize that many of them became criminals because of the powerful incentive of huge black-market profits. But regardless of how many of them remain criminals, it's dead certain that the powerful drug-running gangs they belong to will lose their source of income, and that can only be a good thing.

139 posted on 07/05/2005 11:17:05 AM PDT by Politicalities (http://www.politicalities.com)
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To: Politicalities
Doubt it all you want, it's still true.

Got proof?

You don't see people committing robberies to buy cigarettes, and you don't see flourishing black markets in cigarettes, because cigarettes are legal and (relatively) cheap.

If cigarettes were made illegal tomorrow, I doubt you'd see people who were purchasing black market cigarettes raping women and throwing them out windows because they were under the influence of tobacco. It's a nice effort, but your comparison is not valid.

The pharmaceutical cost of heroin is about $0.02 per dose.

Do you honestly think it would sell for anywhere near that?

No, I think the drug lords will lose their source of funding and become powerless, just as the alcohol gangs of the Prohibition era faded away when that insane policy ended.

You honestly think they faded away when prohibition ended? I'd like to see some proof of that. Every history I've read indicates that bootleggers became purveyors of other 'goodies' once prohibition was repealed.

140 posted on 07/05/2005 11:17:41 AM PDT by MEGoody (Ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.)
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To: softwarecreator
I don't use drugs and never will so I personally could not care less one way or another.

I don't get it. You see liberty attacked but because the behavior involved doesn't appeal to you personally, you don't care? I don't own a gun and have never shot one, but when I see the latest "Brady Bill" proposed by some do-gooding know-it-all, I get pretty incensed.

141 posted on 07/05/2005 11:18:53 AM PDT by laredo44 (Liberty is not the problem)
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To: Politicalities
The drug lords have power because they have an immense quantity of income, all of which would vanish virtually overnight were the black market eradicated by legalization.

Indeed they do have an immense income:

UN Report Puts World's Illicit Drug Trade At Estimated $321 Billion

-- http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1434311/posts

142 posted on 07/05/2005 11:19:10 AM PDT by Ken H
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To: Sensei Ern

You sure don't sound like a "Newbie" ... and BTW I totally agree with you


143 posted on 07/05/2005 11:19:53 AM PDT by clamper1797 (Advertisments contain the only truths to be relied on in a newspaper)
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To: unlearner
...Legalizing drugs would result in...

---

How would you know?

I think the only thing that might change would be,
more tax revenue.
more jobs. (no different then Coors, AHBusch, etc.
Maybe a more efficient judicial system, since no back log of victimless crimes. Maybe?
144 posted on 07/05/2005 11:20:49 AM PDT by downtoliberalism ("A coalition partner must do more than just express sympathy, a coalition partner must perform,")
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To: Politicalities
Your statement was "So legalize drugs and the guys who sell them will suddenly become law-abiding citizens? Riiiiiiiight."

Read the rest of my post, dear, and you'll see where your mind went blank. It seems you still haven't been able to focus long enough to read the entire post.

"Legalize drugs and you will defund the gangs." But this is true.

Do you think all the little gang members will go back to school, study hard and become productive citizens? Or do you think that the criminal element will just find something else criminal to get involved with?

145 posted on 07/05/2005 11:20:58 AM PDT by MEGoody (Ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.)
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To: Lekker 1

We would have to pay whether it is legal or not, wouldn't we?


146 posted on 07/05/2005 11:21:28 AM PDT by softwarecreator (Facts are to liberals as holy water is to vampires)
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To: downtoliberalism
Not arguing against you, but every one of your arguments can and should be used in the alcohol arena.

I agree. I have no problem with making alcohol illegal.

147 posted on 07/05/2005 11:21:42 AM PDT by MEGoody (Ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.)
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To: Politicalities
Conservatives are the ones who want the government to butt out and leave us alone, to let us exercise our freedoms, to choose our own risks, and to do what we want unless we harm a nonconsenting other. Or at least that's the way it's supposed to be.

I wonder at what point all of this started swinging the other way. What many Conservatives support now, not just the WoD, but in general, were definitely not Conservative issues in the past...
148 posted on 07/05/2005 11:22:46 AM PDT by af_vet_rr
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To: LexBaird
The small time seller, IE 10-20 dollar deals, will be out on the street in hours doing it again. If he is thrown in jail, another person will just take his place. If the supply is dried up, he won't have anything to sell. The current system is not working to stop drugs, we are wasting our money this way. What is your solution to get drugs off the streets that will be effective and permanent? I suggested to go after the supply, you told me not to call the cops if my house was burglarized.
149 posted on 07/05/2005 11:23:22 AM PDT by Indy Pendance
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To: MEGoody

...Do you think all the little gang members will go back to school, study hard and become productive citizens?
---

Gang members don't join a gang because of their drug of choice.


150 posted on 07/05/2005 11:23:33 AM PDT by downtoliberalism ("A coalition partner must do more than just express sympathy, a coalition partner must perform,")
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