Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

Skip to comments.

(Islamic Society of North America) ISNA Condemns the Terrorist Attacks in London
ISNA dot net ^ | 7-7-05 | some guy wearing a bedsheet

Posted on 07/07/2005 12:28:18 PM PDT by doug from upland

ISNA Condemns the Terrorist Attacks in London 07- 7-05 10:42 ISNA

July 7, 2005

Plainfield, Indiana- We note with deep sadness the unfortunate events of this morning in London, England. We condemn such acts of mindless violence that violate the standards of Islam, as well as, of all faiths.

It is regrettable to note that a short-lived website has allegedly claimed responsibility for this reprehensible act and that website purported to link itself with a so-called Muslim group. Such a situation does not bode well for Britain's Muslims who maintain positive relations with their government and are active participants in British public life.

Irrespective of the sociopolitical implications, this act violates the Islamic principles of the sanctity of life and the safety and security of innocent civilians.

The British Chief Rabbi Sir Jonathan Sacks has aptly stated: "It is not the weapon of the weak against the strong but the rage of the angry against the defenseless and innocent. It is an evil means to an evil end."

The Islamic Society of North America expresses its fullest condemnation of this unwarranted act of terrorism and offers its condolences to those who have lost their loved ones. May God grant all the strength to bear this loss.

Contact resource:

Dr. Sayyid M. Syeed

Secretary General

Phone: 317-839-8157 ext 222

Email: ssyeed@aol.com


TOPICS: Foreign Affairs; Government; News/Current Events; Politics/Elections; United Kingdom
KEYWORDS: alqaeda; bedsheet; islamicterror; islamofascism; isna; jihadinengland; jihadineurope; jihadinlondon; koranimals; londonattacked; muslimamericans; religionofpeace; religionofpieces; religionoftolerance; taquiyya; terrorism; terrorists; towelonhead; trop; waronterror; wot
I'm sure we and our friends in London all feel better now.
1 posted on 07/07/2005 12:28:21 PM PDT by doug from upland
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | View Replies]

To: doug from upland

Words.


2 posted on 07/07/2005 12:30:34 PM PDT by jennyjenny
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: doug from upland
WTF does "condemnation" mean? What's the difference between that and "disagree". It certainly doesn't mean "willing to do what is necessary to prevent it from happening again".
3 posted on 07/07/2005 12:31:17 PM PDT by Lekker 1 ("Who the hell wants to hear actors talk?"- Harry M. Warner, Warner Bros., 1927)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: doug from upland

They're more worried about what is going to happen to their fellow Muslims than they are for the families of the victims.


4 posted on 07/07/2005 12:31:32 PM PDT by dfwgator
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Lekker 1

I want to see just one Muslim turn in a fellow Muslim to the authorities for being a terrorist. Just one.


5 posted on 07/07/2005 12:32:27 PM PDT by dfwgator
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 3 | View Replies]

To: doug from upland

BAWHAAAA and that's it, just BS!!!


6 posted on 07/07/2005 12:32:37 PM PDT by seeker41
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: doug from upland
The Islamic Society of North America expresses its fullest condemnation of this unwarranted act of terrorism and offers its condolences to those who have lost their loved ones. May God grant all the strength to bear this loss.
They might be just words, but at least they're unequivocal.
7 posted on 07/07/2005 12:36:33 PM PDT by eastsider
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: doug from upland

I don't buy it .. .. ..


8 posted on 07/07/2005 12:50:04 PM PDT by lionheart 247365 (( I.S.L.A.M. ; ) Islam's Spiritual Leaders Advocate Murder .. .. .. ))
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: dfwgator

Wasn't the guy that led the US to Saddam Hussein's sons a muslim?


9 posted on 07/07/2005 1:03:23 PM PDT by echoBoomer
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 5 | View Replies]

To: echoBoomer

Maybe, but I'm talking about the terrorists that are in the sleeper cells in Britain and the US. There are Muslims who know about them, but never try to turn them in. That's what I was referring to. Iraq is a different story as most of the Shiite muslims wanted Saddam gone, because he was a Sunni Muslim, and had Sunni support.


10 posted on 07/07/2005 1:07:47 PM PDT by dfwgator
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 9 | View Replies]

To: doug from upland
I guess I would be very curious to see if these words released Thursday would match what is preached on Friday in the mosque in Plainfield. Something tells me that the message may be somewhat different...
11 posted on 07/07/2005 1:25:44 PM PDT by Hegemony Cricket (No rolling stone ever says, "I want to be a Bryologist when I grow up!")
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: doug from upland

"ISNA Condemns the Terrorist Attacks in London 07- 7-05 10:42 ISNA

July 7, 2005

Plainfield, Indiana- We note with deep sadness the unfortunate events of this morning in London, England. We condemn such acts of mindless violence that violate the standards of Islam. We are sad that a muslim suicide bomber died and it only resulted in the death of a few dozen Infidels. The standards of islam call for at least 100 infidels to die per suicide bomber.

It is regrettable to note that the people of the world are realizing that muslims are terrorists. Such a situation does not bode well for Britain's Muslims who maintain farcical positive relations with their government and are active participants in destroying the British western lifestyle.

Irrespective of the sociopolitical implications, this act follows the Islamic principles of the sanctity of life and the safety and security of infidels. Infidels are of no value except to bring pleasure to muslims by killing the infidels.

The British Chief Rabbi Sir Jonathan Sacks has aptly stated: "It is not the weapon of the weak against the strong but the rage of the muslims against the defenseless and innocent. It is an evil means to an islamic domination of the world. And this is what we are trying to achieve."

The Islamic Society of North America expresses its fullest commendation of this unwarranted act of terrorism and offers its condolences to the family of the suicide bomber. May God grant all the strength to bear this loss. The innocent people deserved to die. Death to all infidels.

Contact resource:

Dr. Sayyid M. Syeed

Secretary General

Phone: 317-839-8157 ext 222

Email: ssyeed@aol.com"


12 posted on 07/07/2005 1:38:39 PM PDT by ArmedNReady (Ask Your Congressman to Declare that islam is a Terrorist Organization.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: eastsider
The Islamic Society of North America expresses its fullest condemnation of this unwarranted act of terrorism ...

As opposed to what, the warranted version the spineless pigs are so partial to ???

13 posted on 07/07/2005 2:55:07 PM PDT by tomkat
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 7 | View Replies]

To: doug from upland

Fine. Now, let's see some names, addresses, hideout info, pictures - you know, stuff we can use.


14 posted on 07/07/2005 2:56:24 PM PDT by Larry Lucido
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: ArmedNReady

I called them and told them to take their condemnation and shove it up their a*s.


15 posted on 07/07/2005 3:00:03 PM PDT by tobyhill (The war on terrorism is not for the weak!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 12 | View Replies]

To: tobyhill
Good on ya!

As far as I'm concerned, they're welcome to use a C4 suppository to make it go more easily.

Lying raghead bastards.

16 posted on 07/07/2005 3:01:40 PM PDT by MarineDad (Whenever mosques and JDAM's meet, civilization benefits.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 15 | View Replies]

To: eastsider

" They might be just words, but at least they're unequivocal."

I don't buy it. We must remember, their goal is world domination period. There is no option for them. They by their cultural nature backed by their particular brand of Islam cultic sect, are taught how to lie. Their Quran contains verses that tell them they are to lie and deceive to protect other followers of Muhammad, as well as advancing their cult to dominate all. They have been living the lie for so long it is now inbreed.

When you start seeing them hauling in any suspect terrorist, no matter how slight the persons actions, words may be in revealing they go along with those dozens of verses in the Koran and writings in the Hadtith that condone terroristic acts etc., then you might possibly believe some of them are actually sincere. Until they hand over these people anything they ever say is just words. And their words, proven by some 1400 years of history always end up when carefully analyized to be half truths or total lies. It has become extremly difficult to give them any more excuse.

If you knew a neighborhood kid was planning on blowing up some innocent kids in your neihborhood would you not step forth and try to stop it while their was time? Same goes here. They have been given a few years now to start doing something about the problem in all Europe, Canada, USA, Australia, and other civilized countries they flock to to avoid very yoke of Islam in it's many varieties, and of course the crude cultural ethnic inheritance they had to live under which is most often the direct result of following Islam. They have no more excuses.


17 posted on 07/07/2005 4:59:17 PM PDT by Marine_Uncle (Honor must be earned)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 7 | View Replies]

To: doug from upland
The British Chief Rabbi Sir Jonathan Sacks has aptly stated: "It is not the weapon of the weak against the strong but the rage of the angry against the defenseless and innocent. It is an evil means to an evil end."

Does this mean ISNA condemns Palestinian terrorism against Israel, which is what the Rabbi was referring to?

How disgusting of them to hide behind Rabbi Sacks.

18 posted on 07/07/2005 5:07:01 PM PDT by Alouette (The only thing learned from history is that nobody ever learns from history.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Alouette

They will always link Israel.


19 posted on 07/07/2005 5:10:04 PM PDT by doug from upland (The Hillary documentary is coming)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 18 | View Replies]

To: doug from upland

My letter to:

Dr. Sayyid M. Syeed, July 7, 2005

Sir. With all respect. I write the following. Firstly. While working at AT&T as a Integrated Circuit Designer, and later a Unix programmer and other fields of endevor I had worked quite closely with engineeers who where born and raised in Iraq, Iran, Afghansitan, and had a neighbor born in Lebanon. All these people where of one or another Islamic sect.

So in writing do understand I for many years had no reason to not think very kindly of them. I considered them friends.
I was invited into their homes, meet their families, helped cut one another grass, built things together, repaired our homes, sat around outside and discussed politics etc.. In the work environment, we worked as one. We had to meet project goals.
We sat and ate the same foods in the caffeteria. So surely I would not have been classified as being anti-Muslim by any
strectch of the word.

That being said. Since the attacks on the United States of America by obviouse maligned fundelmental Islamicist, and
all that has happened since. And re-learning in often quite often infinite detail all the attacks on the USA abroad, both at our embassies and such places such as a Marine barracks we maintain to help keep the peace in a troubled land, I have been forced to totally change my viewpoint on how I look at both Arab culture, Persian culture and other ethnic nationalities in the far east. Of course I have also read much on your religion that has become available.

So I am not writing from a position of "knee jerking". It has been made quite abundantly clear to most of America and
most westernized democracies in general that Islam has the many verses that make it known quite clearly what the duties
of every true believer in Islam must do concerning bringing Islam forth as the dominant world religion. The Koran is quite clear. There is no way of getting around what your religion preaches. You people have been stuck with this horrible yoke around your neck for some 1400 years. And no amount of saying that one misses the points due to transliteration in language etc., is even slightly honest to perpetrate at this point. The facts are well known how all true believers must act. And any sane person, any person of Godly conscientious surely must want to react in horror to put it quite clearly, as to how your religious leaders allow, often perpetrate, and sponsor at government levels on down, the continued teachings of parts of your common religion that ends up breeding religious fanatics, often totally un-learned in how much of the world
works, so as they have no balance, ability to discern what they are taught as being the work of Satan and not of the living and True God.

So with the above being said sir. I cannot help but wonder along with millions of Americans and other peoples of the world when you people in positions of power, authority, influence over your ethnic and religious brothers are going to put the foot down and do more then offer an occasional condemation when your fellow Muslims take more lives in the name of Allah.

Time may not be on your side. As you must sense, liberalism is having a difficult time protecting you. Millions of Americans and the numbers shall continue to grow, are starting to become accutely aware of what is going on. Really. They are starting to ask themselves questions. Amoung them being why if the "religion of Islam" is really so peaceful and abhords the killing of innocent human beings from other religions or have no religion at all, why are not their leaders putting a stop to what has been
going on for many years. Why do for instance the Arabs continue to blow up Israelis? Why do Muslim dominated governements turn their backs and allow people say like Abu Mussab Al Zarqawi, the freedom to do what he has been able to do for so many years, obviouse to you as well as I, long before Saddam was removed from power. We are asking why and many people are are becoming more angry, more distrustful of any mid or far easterner they may encounter on the street. And the very very saddest part of all this is this country by our very nature, and going by our rule of laws and respecting our Constitution about personal freedom and the right of all our citizens equal justice under the law, and the right to pursue the freedoms our laws gaurantee are more and more faced with the delima of how to treat people of the Muslim faith. After all they continue to show
us they are not to be trusted. Which of you are working secretly for some terror cell that is hiding behind a supposed benign religious facade.

Surely though as unpleasant a task it is, it would seem the only hope for a better future for peoples of all religious persuasion, are for you Muslims in the position of authority to start openly not only condeming all in your mists that mean evil to the general public at large, but are intent on carrying out crimes of terror, to start rounding these people up and turning them into the appropriate
Federal and State authorities of this country. That is the only way we are going to start believing Islam is a religion of peace.
You must do your duty. You live in a land that offers you much. Otherwise you would not be here. If you are only here to arrange an eventual means of dominating all other religions then it should be noted that cannot work. How could it work. The very actions your religion preaches, show us that Muslims are simply not to be trusted, based on their actions and continued silence. If you fear having your throat slit. Then sir, it should be obvious to you at this point in your life that there are some terribly fundelmental problems with your religion. And if you realize this then for you and others in an equal position of understanding must start to turn the tide. Your organizations must start to be reactive NOT passive. And like any good neighbor, one must be willing to warn ones
neighbor who the bad people are. You would want the same treatment due you, right? If I knew you, and I knew someone wanted to harm you, is it not my duty as a "believer" to warn you someone wants to harm you? Is this not the way all peoples should treat one another. How many active cells of terrorist are operationg in the United States alone, I have not the slightest idea. But surely those peoples of the Muslim faith living in America must know many of them. Why are your peoples not speaking up?

I shall out of respect bid you good health and peace for the future, can I expect the same from you in how your conciouse will lead you?

George


20 posted on 07/07/2005 6:30:36 PM PDT by Marine_Uncle (Honor must be earned)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Marine_Uncle

Well reasoned and written. I suspect it will fall on deaf ears.


21 posted on 07/07/2005 6:44:56 PM PDT by doug from upland (The Hillary documentary is coming)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 20 | View Replies]

To: jennyjenny

Wonderful. They condemn the attacks. Fantastic.

When are they going to turn in Crazy Uncle Achmed who mixes up ampho in the back shed?

Wanna make a statement? Turn in your friends and relatives who actually engage in this kinda stuff.

Otherwise, this is merely wasted air.


22 posted on 07/07/2005 6:46:40 PM PDT by Wombat101 (Sanitized for YOUR protection...)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 2 | View Replies]

To: Marine_Uncle

Doug, it would appear that in your case, Al-Qaida has been successful in driving a wedge between good folks like you, and the majority of Muslims in the U.S., and that is really sad. This is the perfect time for you to have this dialog with your Muslim co-workers. I'm sure that they share our horror of the recent events in London.

Sadly, your knowledge of the history of the Quran is very shallow. It is just like that of those who take something out of context from the Old Testament in order to justify behaviors like that of the Third Reich. In fact, just about every religion has been abused as such. Have you ever heard of "The Crusades?"

Several weeks after 9/11, I wrote letters to both CAIR and ISNA, demanding to know why their organizations had failed to clearly denounce those terrorists who claim to have acted in the name of Islam. At the time they were worried about a backlash, but slowly learned that their silence was wrong. I am satisfied by their quick responses to this recent tragedy.

Your suggestion that they round up these miscreants makes me laugh. Do you think that most mosques have a list of local terrorists? Come on, get real! That said, it was nice of a local Muslim in nearby Lodi (CA) to tip off the FBI about some strange goings on there.

There are literally millions of American citizens who are Muslims, just like my second cousins. They are engineers, teachers, store owners and hair-dressers who share the same feelings as the rest of us regarding this tragedy, though, sadly, they are loathe to disclose their religion to others because of that wedge that you and many others are allowing the terrorists to place there.

George, you are a smart guy. This is the time to talk to your Muslim co-workers and neighbors. Ask them questions, engage in debate, tell them your perceptions of their religion. You will all learn something!


23 posted on 07/07/2005 6:58:57 PM PDT by km6xu
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 20 | View Replies]

To: doug from upland

"Well reasoned and written. I suspect it will fall on deaf ears."
Your probably right. But I felt driven to write him. In fact I was going to send him a similar letter about a half year back.


24 posted on 07/07/2005 7:22:13 PM PDT by Marine_Uncle (Honor must be earned)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 21 | View Replies]

To: km6xu

I work for myself in a one-man operation so I have no Muslim co-workers.


25 posted on 07/07/2005 7:29:37 PM PDT by doug from upland (The Hillary documentary is coming)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 23 | View Replies]

To: km6xu

"George, you are a smart guy. This is the time to talk to your Muslim co-workers and neighbors. Ask them questions, engage in debate, tell them your perceptions of their religion. You will all learn something!"

I know what the perceptions involve. I have many years of study under my belt. Yes I have book shelfs with history books on the Crusades, the falls church of Rome, the geopolitcal power struggles both at Rome and Constantinople, the histories of all Europe, early histories of Egypt, Akadians, Summrirans, Hittites, the lists go on and on .....
the Arabs, and Islam. Yes I am smart. Yes I have to some degree spoken and shared religouse believes with my Muslim friends, of past. I no longer live in the area I did.
I have read much on all the things the Muslim scholars have claimed to make the OT/NT look like it is corrupt. And having a good understanding of my Christian religion based on some 25 years of often in depth study, I can read stuff in Koran and personally see how off based it is. How Mahummad twisted things as he picked up bits of information from the Jews and Christians he then often later either killed or put under subjection to his desires. On and on.
I don't speak from a view point where I just picked up some little articles at some web site.

You should have paid attention more closely with what my words asked of the good doctor. If you did I don't see how you could make a statment like "Sadly, your knowldege of the history of the Quran is very shallow". I take nothing sir,
out of context. I wonder how aware you are that there are many western scholars who speak many dialects of the Arabic language, and have years of study in how to read various forms of Arabic, and have spent years studying the Quran and Hadith, and are now starting to shed and entirely different view then some of us where lead to believe by reading books lets say produced some twenty years back. And even if my English translation of the Koran, I use the electronic version of The Holy Qur'an, translated by M.H. Shakir and published by Tahrike Tarsile Qur'an, Inc., in 1983.

http://www.hti.umich.edu/k/koran/

Where not how should I say a very good translation compared to some versions in a given dialetc of Arabic, there are verses that leave no doubt, not the slightest doubt, as to their meaning. Islam, can no longer make any excuses. It has been exposed.

Sir. Please answer this for me. If there are no verses in the Koran and the "traditions" and other early works on Islam that make it totally clear that every faithful true believer must go forth and bring all infidels into total subjugation, if they do not submit they must be killed, then where pray tell do these Satanic ideas come from?

What book? Don't use the Crusades and the OT as examples.
Your arguments will not go far with anyone that is learned in these matters. As for the NT and all Christian teachings. You will not find a single sentence that says for someone to be stoned to death, nor harmed in any way. Right?
Have you read through NT? So again, don't assume what you have been told, or may have in a superfilous manner read a few things, think in any way the Crusades had anything to do with true Christiantiy. This is simply crap propogated through the centuries for the un-learned.

But getting back to the question at hand. Regardless of what I may ask someone who perhaps follows a religion and most probably in most cases, never really studied it in detail, this goes for many so called Christians, etc., I pull no punches nor mean to be un-fair, what would would I expect go gain in real knowledge from them? What they been told and never have verified lets say for a ten year period of study, then comparing it closely with other religions?
Obviously religion 101 in most any college in this land is but a very small and most often totally misleading venture to say the least.
So I can appreciate your suggestions. Fine I have no problem with that. But the questions go un-answered. Why do not
Muslim organizations in America start to take an active rule in denouncing the evil works done by Immans in this country to fire up individuals, no differently in essence then say some wahabbi cleric in Saudi Arabia would do. And why are they not looking carefully in just who is teaching here.
And why are good peoples that know who in thier mosque are being conditioned to do bad things not coming forth and tipping off the local authorities. Don't they as American citizens or long time residence perhaps with green cards reaping all kinds of free benifits from the tax payers have a moral obligation to come forth?
That is what I asked the good doctor.

Finally. You asked. "Do you think that most mosques have a list of local terrorists?" Answer. You are either naive or being how should I say it, crafty, in wording it that way.
But lets say you really are simply naive. My answer is.
Yes. Because this is where probably 90% or more of them will show up. In a mosque. It is not difficult to understand such a simple concept as that right? Now it may not take the form of a "list". But surely just based on the mid-eastern culture, anyone showing up at a mosque will be approached. Friendships offered. New people are welcomed. People notice differences, nuiances of how an individual behaves. But surely in the cases where known or suspect mosques are harboring or conditioning people to eventually join cells and or perhaps carry out an individual act of terror, there will be a mental list and or a paper list.
But I am going to simply assume your question was sincere and honest in it's intent.

In closing. I shall admit something I did not bring out in the letter to the doctor. My Lebanese neighbor Araf, though I genuinely liked, and he showed the same affection, as well as his wife and daughter toward me, did not exactly admire Americans by any means. And during the first Gulf war I could not help but notice in off the fly remarks that Saddam was going to put a real hurt on the US military. When Saddam's army was wiped out in less then four days, and all his military defense and communication networks where taken out and all his airforce that tried to get airborne let alone fight where shot down with ease, Araf was not in the mood for a long time to want to even look at me. Araf had some quite strong feelings about Jews and America. But he felt compelled to have his family all located here, given green cards etc., and milk the system as best as he could.
When ever I would talk about how truely wonderfull the Lord God truly is, all the blessings He provides, his graciousness, and often very fatherly help provided in times of need, and prayers answered. Araf would remain quite quite, as well as some of my other Arab and other mid-eastern friends. They did not seem to have any idea what the heck I was talking about. So sir, by kindly interactions, and observations, I believe I have really to some degree gotten a rather clear idea as how my friends approach the Lord Creator of all things. Obviously you know what I derived from this. To them He Who IS, is a far distant non approachable God. Not the God of Abraham and Jesus the SON of God.
But we departed friends some three years later when I moved.
Hope I may have provided you a little insight into a few things I may be aware of.


26 posted on 07/07/2005 9:05:05 PM PDT by Marine_Uncle (Honor must be earned)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 23 | View Replies]

To: Marine_Uncle

Wow, I am humbled by a most impressive response! I am glad that there are thoughtful Freepers who know more about religious history than I do.

You are obviously well aware that almost any religion can be perverted as such, and people should speak out when they see it happening. This is easy for us because the Muslim faith is a minority, and we are fortunate to have freedom of speech. Those in 1930s German weren't so lucky. It is hard to imagine, but that was our Christian faith on the stake less than a century ago. Even today, our country is divided amongst religious lines on some issues. Fortunately, there isn't much disagreement about the fate deserved by terrorists.

Yes, there are plenty of folks like your neighbor Araf who see the world through a strange lens (and indeed some worse), but there are plenty more good Muslims like my relatives who are normal folks just like you and I. We even celebrate Christmas together (though I'll admit to being generally clueless about their observances).

Debate like this is finally starting to force the Muslim community to address these issues, albeit too slowly for my taste. A look at today's leading articles on Al-Jazeera demonstrates that quite clearly. While my relatives are okay, maybe your neighbor is a fence-sitter. Talk to him. Ask him what good (in a secular sense) can come from the slaughter of innocent civilians. Then ask him about those portions of the Quran that you know so well. Ask him how he thinks the Muslim community and its representatives should respond. And tell him that he was smart to choose to live in the best country on earth!

I do apologize for my crafty wording regarding mosques and terrorists. Yes, that was indeed intentional, and you are of course correct about the correlation, but that does not show causality. Black people are disproportionatelly represented in the prison population, but that doesn't mean that every black person is predisposed towards criminal activity.

It is my hope that the majority here communicates to the Muslim community not only what we expect from them, but to understand that there is no gray area in the minds of real Americans when it comes to terrorists. There is only one acceptable option.


27 posted on 07/07/2005 11:22:10 PM PDT by km6xu
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 26 | View Replies]

To: km6xu

As I had indicated, I no longer am in contact with these people because I lost my job and had to relocate. As you
pointed out your relatives of the Muslim faith may be more
trustworthy, down to earth, and reliable people then some
folks you perhaps grew up with or now work with etc..
I shall withhold from making statements to try to prove a point, lets say where many Muslims are not aware of some of the verses that admonish them to go forth and conquere and subjugate the infidel. I realize often OT references to the Lord instructing his people to drive off and or kill some given ethnic group, say the Elomites, often is used as an execuse by some to indicate that there is little difference between what Islam and Hebrews did. But after a close study, one will see a vast difference, in why the Hebrew nation was instructed to rid their land from pagans verse subjugating them. We do not see the Lord's choosen people enslaving others. Quite the contrary. The acts where always issued in order to keep the Hebrew nation "clean" from foreign influence. Put another way. Do not intermingle with us, we serve the living God and do not want your rituals and believe system in our mist, for it will corrupt our people.
Diametrically opposed to this concept, Islam's commission is to subdue all, and convert them. All must obey Allah. And if they do not they are subject to death. And so integrated into the Arab mind is the fact that their cousins are their mortal enemies. There is no way out of this mess. And surely if you have made a terse study into Arab history you are aware of how they try to cover up their second rate status due to the expulsion of Abraham's first son Ismael from the tribe. Ishmael as promised would be the father of a great nation, and his seed starting with his son's
Ne-ba'joth, ke'dar, Ad'be-el, and Mib'sam branch out into the syrian highlands, and southern regions of now Jordan, southward into what is now Saudi Arabia. Then some time later after Sara passed on took his concubine wife Ketu'rah
and produced she had six sons, Zimran,Jok'shan,Me'dan, Mid'ian,Ish-bak, and Shu'ah. Where for instance the peoples in the tribe of Mid'ian migrated to the Gulf of Aqaba area then southward along the eastern coast of the Red Sea to those cities such as Al Madinah (Medina), Makkah(Mecca),Jiddah(Jedda), etc., downward to Aden at the Gulf of Aden. In short, the cousins moved outward and did not associate with the sons of Abraham (tribes of Israel) that came to be once Isaac's son Jacob produced his seed.
As best as can be imagined, the distant cousins we know refere to Arabs, from the very beginning held a grudge, because they where not accepted as the true seed of the Lord God's choosen people. They where the "rejects". So the seed of contempt where sown early on. And as one studies the exploits of the Arabs, Mahummad's raise to power etc., clearly this theme of rejection is the underlining driving force as to how their behavior patterns where exercised. I don't know how else to put it. Within this very sad situation, we see Mahummad and most likely close associates picking up knowledge from Hebrews and Christians who lived in the areas around his operational territory, as well as his early exploits northward towards Syria as his new found power base started their quest to conquere. He and others integrated theology from these two religions into his own with the many obviouse modifications. Ancient Hebraic fables such as how Adam and Eve observed how a raven buried it's mate by pushing earth/leaves over it, now can be read in the Koran as how Able was buried. Now to a Muslim this is the word of God. Yet nowhere in the OT book of Genesis does one find such a method of burial. It came from a fable. But to the belivers of Islam, they have been convinced that only the Qu'ran is the true book of God. In their zeal to accept that the book is actually holy, remember much of what you read in books on Islam, always bring out the concept where Islam rejects Icons, Idols etc., yet their rituals and every day actions show otherwise. Much of the Islamic world in it's ignorance are lead to believe no infidel can touch or read the Qu'ran before submitting to Allah and the words of his prophet, right? Think about that. As I said before, one is required to accept without having the oppurtunity to study what they are supposed to accept. Their holy book is an ICON to them, in many ways. Just look at all the fuss was made over the alleged abuse of it, at Gitmo. They kiss and hold images of past gone Caliphs, Immans etc., in high esteem. Yet at the same time it can be shown that many versions of the Qu'ran are routinely destroyed in Saudi Arabia if found to not be of a given versian the wahabist insist is the only real Qu'ran.
But enough of this. It leads nowhere in particular. I shall leave it at your discreation to become more familiar with what Islam represents, and it's altimate goals.
I would only add, that I for one am often leary of just hopping around the Internet to find sites that provide information on Islam. As is always the case, one can find sites that are just bashing Islam and provide in-accurate information. And I do realize it is so easy to obtain false pictures that at first appear to be somewhat true. Only through serious research methods can one perhaps arrive at a accurate understanding of how any religion operates. And in this I would be misleading if I pretended to fit into this category.
One thing though I am certain of. Until a large effort is made by the various branches of Islam to take a very honest look at what should be believed and what can be found to be in gross error, and then re-educated their constiuency, the problem is not going to go away. For the record, I have in the past year or so read some articles, sorry I cannot provide links, they where in passing, where some clerics in Egypt for one place, are starting to admit a carefull review of the many things written in the Qu'ran must be carefully scrutinized and if found worthless or distructive, then omitted from the Qu'ran. However, no matter how serious they might be in such an endeavor. It will have little effect unless they make all public domain. For again, many of the Islamic faith, like any other faith, are not in the position to apply a indepth study of their book. And there is so much written in say the Hadiths (the traditions), that attempt to explain much of what is written in the Qu'ran that also would have to come under carefull scrutiny, that these things may never bear fruit. For the record these very things quite a few hundred years ago, where attempted by some Islamic scholars but fell by the was side. It is hard enough for them to try to find common ground on basic believes, concerning who to follow in the context of where does the final authority exist. Much like we find say between the Roman Catholic Church and the various Protestant Churches. Same deal. But the essence of what I write simply opens the question as to why do Muslims think Islam is so pure, the final religion so to speak, when it can be found to be quite a mess in so many ways. I pretty much have a good idea of the answer. And I think the person I addressed the letter to, even has a better idea as to what Islam really represents. Jesus proclamied the good news, and commisioned his diciples to go forth and preach that all can be saved and please God by doing certain things. Nowhere in the OT/NT do we find the commission to go forth and conquer. The polar opposite is found in Islam. It demands it's subjects go forth and conquer then subjugate. We simply cannot get around these simply facts.
Have a pleasant day. Sorry for the verbosity.


28 posted on 07/08/2005 12:24:41 PM PDT by Marine_Uncle (Honor must be earned)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 27 | View Replies]

To: km6xu

Sir, perhaps what I rave on about can be somewhat illustrated by reading the below article just published. I'll leave it go at that.

http://www.timesdispatch.com/servlet/Satellite?pagename=RTD/MGArticle/RTD_BasicArticle&c=MGArticle&cid=1031783671387


29 posted on 07/08/2005 1:01:58 PM PDT by Marine_Uncle (Honor must be earned)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 23 | View Replies]

Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.

Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson