Posted on 07/15/2005 11:29:25 AM PDT by nypokerface
Simply wanting things to be true to fit your personal theology or writing style does not make them true.
You mean such as saying the Waldensians were founded by Peter Waldo?
The Waldensians, as most scholars (non-Catholic scholars, that is) agree, originated pre-Peter Waldo (Peter of Lyons), probably in the ninth century. (The term "Waldensian" refers to the Valdenses, or "valley men," not followers of Waldo.) The main proof of this is that their creed, the "Noble Lesson," dates to 1100, before Peter's birth, and mentions the already ongoing persecution of the Valdenses by Catholics.
Of course, for obvious reasons the Catholic Church has no interest in correctly dating the Waldensians.
No, I don't. But it doesn't then follow that Christ, were he to come back today and look at the churches, would find the Way expressed most purely in the Roman Catholic Church. I'm not going to join what I believe to be a somewhat misguided church because it presumes to date itself to St. Peter.
Notice I said "somewhat misguided," not non-Christian. And that's a lot more credit that many Catholics on FreeRepublic give non-Catholics. I've been told straight out, on this forum, that I'm not a Christian. Why? Not because of what I believe or don't believe regarding the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, but simply because I'm not Catholic.
Then something is seriously wrong.
First, let’s look at Matthew 16:16-19 “He said to them, "But who do you say that I am?" Simon Peter said in reply, "You are the Messiah, the Son of the living God." Jesus said to him in reply, "Blessed are you, Simon son of Jonah. For flesh and blood has not revealed this to you, but my heavenly Father. And so I say to you, you are Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church, and the gates of the netherworld shall not prevail against it. I will give you the keys to the kingdom of heaven. Whatever you bind on earth shall be bound in heaven; and whatever you loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.”
Now, here’s the interesting part. The word “Church” (singular) in Matthew 16 is from the Greek “ekklesia.” This word “ekklesia” occurs in the gospels only here and in Matthew 18:17 (twice).
"If your brother sins against you, go and tell him his fault between you and him alone. If he listens to you, you have won over your brother. If he does not listen, take one or two others along with you, so that every fact may be established on the testimony of two or three witnesses. If he refuses to listen to them, tell the church (ekklesia). If he refuses to listen even to the church (ekklesia), then treat him as you would a Gentile or a tax collector. Amen, I say to you, whatever you bind on earth shall be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.”
It is the same Church in Matthew 16 and 18. Here it refers not to the entire Church of Jesus, as in Matthew 16:18, but to the local congregation of the same Church, which Paul told to be “perfectly united in mind and thought.”
Clearly, the Church in Matthew 16 is the Church Christ said he will build. The Church of Matthew 16 is the same Church of Matthew 18. The Church in Matthew 16 would survive because “the gates of the netherworld shall not prevail against it.”
This Church has other characteristics. The Church is “the pillar and foundation of the truth” -- “Although I hope to come to you soon, I am writing you these instructions so that, if I am delayed, you will know how people ought to conduct themselves in God's household, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and foundation of the truth.” 1 Tim 3:14-15. Note the singular - THE Church, the pillar of truth. This cannot refer to multiple churches teaching multiple versions of the Truth. The Church that teaches with authority - "He who listens to you listens to me, and he who rejects you rejects me" (Luke 10:16)
So if, as you suggest, “it doesn't then follow that Christ, were he to come back today and look at the churches, would find the Way,” what happened? Did the Church that clearly existed in Matthew 18 not survive? Or is the Bible wrong?
No games here.
The words are scripture.
These are serious questions.
For your information, If you ever read the Holy Bible, christianity started with Jesus Christ himself. And he was born Jewish. Just because Constantine wanted to claim it and make it what he wanted dosent make him right. The only one to be worhiped is God himself, not some man sitting on a throne having people bow down to him and kissing his hand or whatever else they do. To answer your question NO, its not christianity, a christian does not pray to statues or mary whitch is not still a virgin by the way. they pray to Jesus the only way to God.
Hahahaha.... Well have fun with your dillusions. The Roman Catholic Church traces itself and the concept of Papal Supremecy to Peter himself, Christ himself stated he would build his church upon Peter (Matthew 16:18-19). Peter ordained his successor for the Rome see.
As to worshiping Idols... funny, I never turn on TV and see Roman Catholic Priests and Bishops preaching the “health and wealth” feel goodism drive through heresy... these nearly always from protestant offshoots that for the most part have shown they make it up as they go along.
The idea that the Roman Catholic Church is not Christian is certainly knews to all those who have died in his name over the years as defenders and martyrs... make sure you inform the man upstairs of this when he punches your clock.
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.