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Seafloor survey buoys Atlantis claim: Earthquake debris shores up evidence for lost city
NATURE.COM ^ | JULY 22, 2005 | Andreas von Bubnoff

Posted on 07/22/2005 8:56:42 PM PDT by CHARLITE

There occurred violent earthquakes and floods. And in a single day and night of misfortune... the island of Atlantis disappeared in the depths of the sea."

This account, written by Plato more than 2,300 years ago, set scientists on the trail of the lost city of Atlantis. Did it ever exist? And if so, where was it located, and when did it disappear?

In a recent paper in Geology, Marc-Andre Gutscher of the European Institute for Marine Studies in Plouzané gives details of one candidate for the lost city: the submerged island of Spartel, west of the Straits of Gibraltar.

The top of this isle lies some 60 metres beneath the surface in the Gulf of Cadiz, having plunged beneath the waves at the end of the most recent ice age as melting glaciers caused the sea level to rise.

Geological evidence has shown that a large earthquake and a tsunami hit this island some 12,000 years ago, at roughly the location and time indicated in Plato's writings.

Gutscher has surveyed this island in detail, using sound waves reflected off the sea floor to map its contours1. His results bring mixed news to Atlantis hunters.

Ups and downs

At first, his conclusions seemed disappointing. At the time identified by Plato for the city's loss, the sea level would have been fairly high on the island's banks.

According to sea-level measurements alone, Gutscher estimates the island "would have been reduced to wave-swept rocky islets" and would have been less than 500 metres in diameter, making it impossibly small for a sophisticated city.

But there is a saving grace. Gutscher says the island might have sunk further since those times from seismic activity.

Layers of turbidite, the sand and mud shaken up by underwater avalanches, suggest that eight earthquakes have happened in the area since Atlantis sank. Each earthquake could have resulted in a drop of the sea floor by several metres.

So 12,000 years ago, Spartel might have been 40 metres higher than expected, and could have measured five by two kilometres.

"This is an interesting contribution to the discussion," says Jacques Collina-Girard, a geologist at the University of the Mediterranean in Aix-en-Provence, who suggested Spartel as a candidate for Atlantis a few years ago.

Simple folk

"This does not mean the island was inhabited," Gutscher cautions. At a conference of Atlantis researchers in Greece this month, he became convinced that the sophisticated city described by some could not have existed this long ago. "If inhabited, it would have probably been simple fishermen and not a Bronze Age culture as described by Plato," he says.

The Bronze Age is usually described as beginning just 5,000 years ago. Gutscher adds that his sound reflection data revealed no unusual geometric structures that could suggest an extinct civilization.

He says that the Egyptians who told Plato the Atlantis story may have used a different definition of 'years', meaning the destruction of Atlantis happened more recently than thought.

Candidate city

The conference in Greece came to no firm conclusions about the city's existence. But researchers managed to agree on 24 criteria that a geographical area must satisfy in order to qualify as a site where Atlantis could have existed. The place must have accommodated such oddities as hot springs, northerly winds, elephants, enough people for an army of 10,000 chariots, and a ritual of bull sacrifice.

At present there are half a dozen candidates for Atlantis's location, each one with its own shortcomings. Some say that settling on a final answer may prove impossible.

"The geophysics is well done, the geology excellent," says geologist Floyd McCoy of the University of Hawaii, Kaneohe, of Gutscher's study. "But most of Plato's description of Atlantis is so ambiguous and open to interpretation. With the information we have from the ancient text, it may never be found, if indeed it ever existed."


TOPICS: Culture/Society; Foreign Affairs; News/Current Events; Philosophy
KEYWORDS: archaeology; atlantis; emiliospedicato; geological; ggg; gibraltar; godsgravesglyphs; history; island; legend; oceanfloor; plato; portugal; spain; spartel; spedicato; survey; writings

1 posted on 07/22/2005 8:56:43 PM PDT by CHARLITE
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To: SunkenCiv

GGG Ping.


2 posted on 07/22/2005 8:58:16 PM PDT by blam
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To: SunkenCiv
A Catastrophic Scenario For Discontinuities In Human History
3 posted on 07/22/2005 9:02:59 PM PDT by blam
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To: SunkenCiv
A Catastrophic Scenario For Discontinuities In Human History
4 posted on 07/22/2005 9:03:28 PM PDT by blam
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To: Mycroft Holmes

ping


5 posted on 07/22/2005 9:05:55 PM PDT by fooman (Get real with Kim Jung Mentally Ill about proliferation)
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To: CHARLITE

Hey! I see palm trees growing among Atlantis' submerged streets and temples!


6 posted on 07/22/2005 9:06:36 PM PDT by Cultural Jihad
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To: CHARLITE

Guy, everytime they find a submerged island, they estimate it could have been above water 10 trillion years ago and was probably Atlantis.


7 posted on 07/22/2005 9:11:32 PM PDT by graycamel
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To: CHARLITE
Silly researchers are looking in the wrong place...

Atlantis is in the Pegasus galaxy...


8 posted on 07/22/2005 9:12:03 PM PDT by AFreeBird (your mileage may vary)
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To: blam
Sorry to tell ya this... But it wasn't a earthquake that sank Atlantis.

Yeah, it was all my fault. I left the bathroom tap running... And got too drunk to turn it off.

9 posted on 07/22/2005 9:17:12 PM PDT by sonofatpatcher2 (Texas, Love & a .45-- What more could you want, campers? };^)
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To: blam
A Catastrophic Scenario For Discontinuities In Human History

Thank you so much for this resource. It is too long for a thorough reading right now, but I have kept it in a separate folder. It is fascinating indeed. I very much appreciate your having posted such an erudite, informative source.
Thanks!

Char :)

10 posted on 07/22/2005 10:21:19 PM PDT by CHARLITE (I propose a co-Clinton team as permanent reps to Pyonyang, w/out possibility of repatriation....)
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To: Buffalo Head

And isn't that a buffalo heading around the palms? ;-)


11 posted on 07/22/2005 10:26:20 PM PDT by Cultural Jihad
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To: blam; FairOpinion; Ernest_at_the_Beach; StayAt HomeMother; 24Karet; 3AngelaD; asp1; ...
Thanks Blam.

To all -- please ping me to other topics which are appropriate for the GGG list. Thanks.
Please FREEPMAIL me if you want on, off, or alter the "Gods, Graves, Glyphs" PING list --
Archaeology/Anthropology/Ancient Cultures/Artifacts/Antiquities, etc.
The GGG Digest
-- Gods, Graves, Glyphs (alpha order)

12 posted on 07/23/2005 12:01:11 AM PDT by SunkenCiv (Down with Dhimmicrats! I last updated by FR profile on Tuesday, May 10, 2005.)
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"researchers managed to agree on 24 criteria that a geographical area must satisfy in order to qualify as a site where Atlantis could have existed. The place must have accommodated such oddities as hot springs, northerly winds, elephants, enough people for an army of 10,000 chariots, and a ritual of bull sacrifice."

I need to get a job as a "researcher".


13 posted on 07/23/2005 12:03:37 AM PDT by SunkenCiv (Down with Dhimmicrats! I last updated by FR profile on Tuesday, May 10, 2005.)
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To: CHARLITE

Islands off Cadiz---and Cadiz itself, for that matter---have gotten soaked in historical times, by subsidence or sea level rise.


14 posted on 07/23/2005 5:45:13 AM PDT by Graymatter
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To: CHARLITE
But researchers managed to agree on 24 criteria that a geographical area must satisfy in order to qualify as a site where Atlantis could have existed. The place must have accommodated such oddities as hot springs, northerly winds, elephants, enough people for an army of 10,000 chariots, and a ritual of bull sacrifice.

sounds like a Prince concert.

15 posted on 07/23/2005 5:49:21 AM PDT by SlowBoat407 (A living affront to Islam since 1959)
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To: blam

What is it about the legend of Atlantis that motivates scholars and treasure-hunters?

Considering the land masses that have come submerged since the last glacial maximum, there are probably sunken cities and sunken civilizations all over the world.

They can't all be Atlantis, but they're still worth finding.

By the way, I lost the link to that map again. When I upgraded Firefox a couple of months ago, I lost all my bookmarks. Can you please link it again? Thanks.


16 posted on 07/23/2005 9:43:18 AM PDT by CobaltBlue (Extremism in the defense of liberty is no vice. Moderation in the pursuit of justice is no virtue.)
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To: CobaltBlue
Considering the land masses that have come submerged since the last glacial maximum, there are probably sunken cities and sunken civilizations all over the world.

They can't all be Atlantis, but they're still worth finding.
I wholeheartedly agree. Bravo!
Catastrophical Scenario for Discontinuities in Human History
by Emilio Spedicato
University of Bergamo
"that Atlantis was Minoan Crete, destroyed by the tsunami which followed the collapse of the volcanic chamber in Santorini... requires so many substantial changes to the Platonic text, that it is equivalent in our opinion to rejecting the text"
Spedicato puts Atlantis on Hispaniola. I don't necessarily agree with that, but at least it conforms to Plato's text. :')

17 posted on 07/23/2005 11:23:53 AM PDT by SunkenCiv (Down with Dhimmicrats! I last updated by FR profile on Tuesday, May 10, 2005.)
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To: blam

Oh yeah, you already posted the link. [blush]


18 posted on 07/23/2005 11:24:46 AM PDT by SunkenCiv (Down with Dhimmicrats! I last updated by FR profile on Tuesday, May 10, 2005.)
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To: CobaltBlue
"By the way, I lost the link to that map again."

What map?

This one?

19 posted on 07/23/2005 11:45:31 AM PDT by blam
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To: CHARLITE

First mistake the Egyptians told Solon, Plato's ancestor.


20 posted on 07/23/2005 11:49:37 AM PDT by Little Bill (A 37%'r, a Red Spot on a Blue State, rats are evil.)
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To: Little Bill

quibble -- Solon is said (by Plato) to have been Critias' ancestor. Aristocles (Plato's real name, if memory serves) had obscure parents, but by one ancient account, they were a great couple of guys. ;')


21 posted on 07/23/2005 8:47:15 PM PDT by SunkenCiv (Down with Dhimmicrats! I last updated by FR profile on Tuesday, May 10, 2005.)
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Timaeus and Critias:
Google

22 posted on 07/23/2005 8:56:48 PM PDT by SunkenCiv (Down with Dhimmicrats! I last updated by FR profile on Tuesday, May 10, 2005.)
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To: Little Bill

Whoops. Dropides was Critias' ancestor, and Solon was merely a distant relative of both.


23 posted on 07/23/2005 8:58:06 PM PDT by SunkenCiv (Down with Dhimmicrats! I last updated by FR profile on Tuesday, May 10, 2005.)
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To: 75thOVI; AndrewC; Avoiding_Sulla; BenLurkin; Berosus; CGVet58; chilepepper; ckilmer; Eastbound; ...
Timaeus
Plato
Critias: There have been, and will be again, many destructions of mankind arising out of many causes; the greatest have been brought about by the agencies of fire and water, and other lesser ones by innumerable other causes. There is a story, which even you have preserved, that once upon a time Paethon, the son of Helios, having yoked the steeds in his father's chariot, because he was not able to drive them in the path of his father, burnt up all that was upon the earth, and was himself destroyed by a thunderbolt. Now this has the form of a myth, but really signifies a declination of the bodies moving in the heavens around the earth, and a great conflagration of things upon the earth, which recurs after long intervals; at such times those who live upon the mountains and in dry and lofty places are more liable to destruction than those who dwell by rivers or on the seashore. And from this calamity the Nile, who is our never-failing saviour, delivers and preserves us... Many great and wonderful deeds are recorded of your state in our histories. But one of them exceeds all the rest in greatness and valour. For these histories tell of a mighty power which unprovoked made an expedition against the whole of Europe and Asia, and to which your city put an end. This power came forth out of the Atlantic Ocean, for in those days the Atlantic was navigable; and there was an island situated in front of the straits which are by you called the Pillars of Heracles; the island was larger than Libya and Asia put together, and was the way to other islands, and from these you might pass to the whole of the opposite continent which surrounded the true ocean; for this sea which is within the Straits of Heracles is only a harbour, having a narrow entrance, but that other is a real sea, and the surrounding land may be most truly called a boundless continent.

24 posted on 07/23/2005 9:02:01 PM PDT by SunkenCiv (Down with Dhimmicrats! I last updated by FR profile on Tuesday, May 10, 2005.)
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To: SunkenCiv

The plain truth is that Atlantis is in Florida. There's a small town by that name (population approx. 5,000) a few miles from West Palm Beach. The best part is that it's next to another small town named Lantana, home of The National Enquirer.


25 posted on 07/23/2005 9:27:52 PM PDT by Berosus ("There is no beauty like Jerusalem, no wealth like Rome, no depravity like Arabia."--the Talmud)
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To: Berosus

Michigan is home to Hell and Paradise. OTOH, we have a Montague, but no Capulet.


26 posted on 07/24/2005 7:41:08 AM PDT by SunkenCiv (Down with Dhimmicrats! I last updated by FR profile on Tuesday, May 10, 2005.)
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To: blam

That's it. Thanks.


27 posted on 07/25/2005 9:36:31 AM PDT by CobaltBlue (Extremism in the defense of liberty is no vice. Moderation in the pursuit of justice is no virtue.)
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Comment #28 Removed by Moderator

To: AFreeBird
HA!
I LOVE that show. Sci Fi Fridays! Bring it on!
29 posted on 08/19/2005 4:08:29 AM PDT by MrsEmmaPeel
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