Home Schools Run By Well-Meaning Amateurs (Barf alert!)

Once tenured, they cannot be fired; however, they may be promoted.

Hey! I want a promotion! And this thing called tenure, I know it exists in college, I haven't seen it here.

"Only when public school teachers get paid according to their abilities and accomplishments (like in a real job)"

Easy to say--hard to do. There are too many factors. If a teacher has all low kids and makes wonderful progress with them, but still gets lower test scores with some teacher who works with higher students and gets higher test scores, which one should be paid higher? There's a lot of subjective things to consider too. A teacher who works really well with parents may not have things reflected in a quantitative way. Sometimes it is things like that that REALLY count.

With the current climate of encouraging disrespect towards teachers, it seems that one's idea of merit pay wouldn't be any more, probably less, than I make now (which is okay--not minimum wage--but not a whole lot either).

I love being a teacher and wouldn't trade it for anything. We have been in school two weeks and I already have a myriad of stories to tell. I love working with the students and parents and seeing the progress of my little first graders. Seeing those little eyes light up is wonderful as it is when the parents get excited that their children are learning too. So in a way, I receive a lot of "merit" pay, in fact more than any amount anyone can give. For such is priceless, and you can't put a measure on that.

Moog, while I understand where you're coming from and I can't deny some truth in it, I do none the less have a serious problem with where you seem to be headed with those comments.

Yes, there are disruptive children. Yes there are bad parents. Yes, the kids can't concentrate because it's hot, cold or for other reasons.

I just can't help but think that with 12 years of having these children for 4 to 5 hours a day, nobody was able to teach them how to read or do simple math. Still, this happens.

Children just aren't learning. Way too many of them are not learning.

I hardly every took homework home with me from school as a child. My parentds didn't check up on me every evening. If there was a problem at school, they were contacted. Other than that, I did far less than the kids today are asked to do.

What gives?

Moog, while I understand where you're coming from and I can't deny some truth in it, I do none the less have a serious problem with where you seem to be headed with those comments.
Yes, there are disruptive children. Yes there are bad parents. Yes, the kids can't concentrate because it's hot, cold or for other reasons.
I just can't help but think that with 12 years of having these children for 4 to 5 hours a day, nobody was able to teach them how to read or do simple math. Still, this happens. Children just aren't learning. Way too many of them are not learning. I hardly every took homework home with me from school as a child. My parentds didn't check up on me every evening. If there was a problem at school, they were contacted. Other than that, I did far less than the kids today are asked to do.
What gives?

I could write a book on a reply, but I'll try to keep it short. My parents expected us to have our butt in class and to learn somethign regardless of who our teacher was. Homework came before TV or playing with friends. We were expected of course, to still do church-related things which were MORE important.

To make it short, circumstances, attitudes and perceptions, priorities, and so on and so on have changed. A climate of disrespect towards others is encouraged, people focus on the negative (as it looks like I'm doing here:), we blame others for our ills rather than being responsible for things, people place less importance on things that we used to think were more important, we are more prone to pout and scream if we don't get our way, some of us want our way no matter who gets in our way, we complain more about more petty things than we used to, we're more spoiled, and so on and so on. There are so many factors out there. I'm certainly not trying to blame any one thing. I'm saying that there are multiple things to consider (many, many, many more than I can ever list here)rather than putting all the eggs in one basket. I see many examples of wonderful things that happen that will never be told about. It is swept under the rug to make way for the more newsworthy negativity. My parents too, did not often help out at the school. If they were contacted, they dealt with the problem and things went on. But education was of parmount importance and they had high expectations. The important thing to my mom wasn't us going to Harvard, though, it's that we all turned out to be "good kids" and productive adults (oops forgot to mention being active participants in our religious faith). We all have. Honoring this is important to all 8 of us.

It's obvious you have good parents and more obvious you are one. I am SO thankful that my students have wonderful parents who work with them the 87% of the time they have their children. Actually, some of these parents become cherished friends and every year I see miracles happen (not due to me). One of these years I think I'll write a book:).

Thanks for the nice reply Moog. I can agree with a lot of what you said. Take care.

D1

[If a teacher has all low kids and makes wonderful progress with them, but still gets lower test scores with some teacher who works with higher students and gets higher test scores, which one should be paid higher? There's a lot of subjective things to consider too. A teacher who works really well with parents may not have things reflected in a quantitative way. Sometimes it is things like that that REALLY count.]

From my own experience working in industry (this method is used by large companies who have many workers to keep track of), the best way to recompense workers fairly based on merit is:
- The company (school) devises a set of comprehensive standards that consists of reasonable goals the workers (teachers) are expected to achieve.
- Competent supervisors track workers achievements according to the standard and at regular times (perhaps once or twice per year) an evaluation is made as to how well the worker accomplished the goals.
- Written records are kept of merit evaluations, and review of the evaluation system itself is part of the process as well as an appeals provision to help prevent bias.

I've seen this system work very well for companies that have a great many workers who do difficult jobs that may seem hard to evaluate or have subjective outcomes, as you pointed out is true of teachers.

The key is to place knowledgeable supervisors who are, or were, experienced teachers themselves in the position of evaluating the current employees. This ensures that evaluations are based on what is reasonably expected of individual teachers given the students, the parents, the environment, amount of money the school has, and anything else, objective or subjective that affects performance.

I know that this type of system for evaluating merit pay would disgust many union workers and certainly every union leader, but it does work, and it's a vast improvement over the "equal pay for all" system that is the current practice.

What you said about the current climate encouraging disrespect towards teachers is absolutely true. There are far more students (and parents) who hinder education with their attitude and it makes teachers' jobs tougher than in the past.

But I went to a Catholic grade school, so disrespect towards teachers wasn't something I saw happen a lot until I attended a public high school. <[:^)

I hope you do well as a teacher and you continue to love your work as you do now!

What you said about the current climate encouraging disrespect towards teachers is absolutely true. There are far more students (and parents) who hinder education with their attitude and it makes teachers' jobs tougher than in the past. But I went to a Catholic grade school, so disrespect towards teachers wasn't something I saw happen a lot until I attended a public high school. <[:^) I hope you do well as a teacher and you continue to love your work as you do now!

A lot of it has to do with perception, attitude, and investment. When people invest (e.g. time) with the right attitude, then wonderful things happen. I have seen it happen again and again and again and again and again. I could butcher this to death, so I won't go on.

I absolutely love what I do. Each year is different and brings forth many wonderful miracles and stories that I see happen. Each year I get to meet wonderful parents and students. Who wouldn't love that? Sometimes I wonder how I got so lucky. I think the man upstairs is looking out for me because some of the things I see happen are definitely not my doing and have no simple explanation.

thank you

Head custodian? The NEA has to have a janitor write for them? What's the matter, no literate teachers left? Jeeze.

As "Well-Meaning Amateurs" my wife and I have managed to see our homeshooled childeren score consistantly in the 90th percentile based on the old fashioned, non-dumbed down Iowa test.

Lack of sociaization with homeschollers is a big myth. Plenty of good peer interaction with little League, 4H, Sunday school, science fairs...

The educational elite have lost control and know it.

And thanks to you Moog.

D1