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Massive electric current tested in US
Aljazeera

Posted on 07/29/2005 2:28:26 PM PDT by Grendel9

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To: BipolarBob

Wait a minute. Power is 'watts' or 'joules/second'. Energy is 'watt seconds or hours'. That's power x time. The unit mw/hr would read 'milliwatts per hour', which is not correct at all. The joule is the unit for energy. A joule/s is a watt.

Electrical generating plants are usually rated in 'megawatts' or 'MW' with a capital M. This is power. Power is only the time RATE at which electical energy is produced/used. You don't buy 'power', you buy 'energy'. Energy is measured in watts times time, or 'watt hours'. This is sometimes written as 'watt-hours' but then some folks think the dash is a minus sign, which it isn't.

A 100 Watt light bulb isn't more 'powerful' than a 60 watt bulb. Things can't 'have' power. They can only 'use' energy at higher or lower rates. 100 Watts means the bulb uses energy at the rate of 100 joules per second. Every second it is on, it uses 100 joules. In one hour, it uses 360 000 joules of energy.


41 posted on 07/29/2005 3:06:23 PM PDT by Right Wing Assault ("..this administration is planning a 'Right Wing Assault' on values and ideals.." - John Kerry)
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To: Grendel9
Amps? No clue what that means? Read about Andre Maria Ampere, famous dead guy here:
42 posted on 07/29/2005 3:07:42 PM PDT by steveo (Member: Fathers Against Rude Television)
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To: E=MC<sup>2</sup>
the peak "demand" reported was something like 9,000 megawatt hours

Wait a minute again! 'Peak' implies a rate rather than a total. (Just as 'peak speed' would be measured in 'miles/hour'. Total distance would be speed times time, which gives 'distance'.)

If they wanted to say 'power' they should use 'megawatts'. If they want to say 'energy' they should use 'megawatt hours'. It sounds as if they were talking about power since they mentioned a peak value. This means people were using energy a the highest RATE for the day. They should have said 'megawatts', the proper unit for power, not 'megawatt hours'.

43 posted on 07/29/2005 3:15:14 PM PDT by Right Wing Assault ("..this administration is planning a 'Right Wing Assault' on values and ideals.." - John Kerry)
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To: Grendel9

But I understand that if you wear a tinfoil hat, you can thwart the power of it. ;)


44 posted on 07/29/2005 3:22:26 PM PDT by MizSterious (Now, if only we could convince them all to put on their bomb-vests and meet in Mecca...)
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To: Major_Risktaker
We would run the experiments in the control room behind laminated glass with ear protection and sunglasses on. It should be a scene in a sci-fi movie.
45 posted on 07/29/2005 3:24:55 PM PDT by Final Authority
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To: Grendel9
From this reference:

Atlas consists of high voltage capacitor banks that discharge electrical energy into a system of parallel plate transmission lines. Large electrical currents flowing through the plates produce an intense magnetic field, applying a huge pressure pulse into a cylindrical liner and target containing materials of interest. Atlas acts as a giant power amplifier, using energy that accumulates slowly at 480 volts and is stored in the machine's capacitor banks for sudden release into the liner and target. As the electrical current surges through Atlas, it accelerates materials to velocities well in excess of that required to escape Earth's gravity (as high as 22,000 miles per hour), and generates pressures equivalent to millions of times that of Earth's atmosphere. During the few millionths of a second that it is operating at full performance, the tremendous electrical output of Atlas is approximately three to four times that of the world's total electric power production (4 trillion watts)!

LANL and Sandia have been doing this sort of thing for years. Huge currents are pushed through a rounded conductor, and in the process vaporize it. The magnetic field produced by the current drives the plasma radially into a target. The collisions with the target produce considerable radiation. These are device simulators.

46 posted on 07/29/2005 3:27:26 PM PDT by MassLengthTime
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To: Grendel9

Hoover, Eureka and others are salivating.

"Get the NEW supersucker, with 19million big amps!"


47 posted on 07/29/2005 3:30:59 PM PDT by Professional Engineer (Dining room, we don't need no stinkin dining room! Classroom space, on the other hand, is valuable.)
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To: Grendel9

Electrifying!


48 posted on 07/29/2005 3:33:04 PM PDT by Junior (Just because the voices in your head tell you to do things doesn't mean you have to listen to them)
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To: Grendel9

bzzzzzump


49 posted on 07/29/2005 3:33:16 PM PDT by Fester Chugabrew
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To: kingu
Do they have an extra one to go test down at Gitmo?

Messy. A 20-amp (fast blow) terrorist in a 19 million amp circuit...

50 posted on 07/29/2005 3:37:26 PM PDT by adx (Why's it called "tourist season" if you ain't allowed to shoot 'em?)
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To: MassLengthTime
it accelerates materials to velocities well in excess of that required to escape Earth's gravity (as high as 22,000 miles per hour)

Quibble: escape speed is 25 000 mi/h near the earth's surface.

51 posted on 07/29/2005 4:06:07 PM PDT by Right Wing Assault ("..this administration is planning a 'Right Wing Assault' on values and ideals.." - John Kerry)
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To: Grendel9
1.9X107 Amps? That's one serious ZOT!
52 posted on 07/29/2005 4:09:00 PM PDT by Redcloak (We'll raise up our glasses against evil forces singin' "whiskey for my men and beer for my horses!")
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To: Right Wing Assault
Wait a minute. Power is 'watts' or 'joules/second'. Energy is 'watt seconds or hours'. That's power x time. The unit mw/hr would read 'milliwatts per hour', which is not correct at all. The joule is the unit for energy. A joule/s is a watt.

This is an excellent post. It shows knowledge of physics and explains things clearly and concisely. You have brought the discussion of a technical subject to the right level of detail without being pedantic.

Most people have no understanding of physics and everyday conversation doesn't have the same precise definitions for ideas like power and energy and motion. For example try to tell someone that the brake pedal in their car is an accelerator. In physics it is an accelerator as is the steering wheel when going around a corner, but neither of these devices will ever be an accelerator in common conversation.

In the imagination of popular culture, a 100 Watt bulb will always be more powerful than a 60 Watt one. This is often a source of confusion when moving to scientific subjects.

53 posted on 07/29/2005 4:30:15 PM PDT by stripes1776
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To: Right Wing Assault

Good catch.


54 posted on 07/29/2005 4:44:30 PM PDT by MassLengthTime
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To: steveo
I went the other route, to Coulomb, since I knew that one Ampere is equal to one Coulomb flow in 1 second. One Coulomb is equal to 6.25x10^18 electrons flow.
However, to get any flow, one must have a difference of potential, aka voltage. What voltage would be required to push 1.9x10 ^7 amperes and each Ampere equal to 1 coulomb electrons...wow what a number.
OTOH, how do you measure current in amperes present for milliseconds, when the ampere is defined as one Coulomb of flow for 1 second?
55 posted on 07/29/2005 5:12:31 PM PDT by AntiBurr ("Ceterum censeo Islam esse delendam " with apologies to Cato)
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To: MassLengthTime

I remember seeing an Air Force magazine back in the early 90's of a B-52 (BUFF) on a big wooden platform. The Sandia guys used the wooden platform to zap planes and other systems with big EMP jolts to see how well they'd survive and what could be done to shield them.


56 posted on 07/29/2005 7:42:53 PM PDT by gregwest
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To: Echo Talon
Whoo hooo we are designing the LIGHTNING ZOT! :D YEE HAWW!

Like this one?

http://205.243.100.155/frames/mpg/500kV_Switch.mpg

57 posted on 07/29/2005 7:46:20 PM PDT by FreedomCalls (It's the "Statue of Liberty," not the "Statue of Security.")
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To: stripes1776

Thanks, stripes. Power and energy are confusing topics for most folks. Of course, since journalists know nothing about it but pretend they do, they are of no help. They pretend everyone else understands it, too. It would be nice if they would give a little sidebar whenever they talk about this stuff. If you want to read it, fine. If not, fine. But they should at least give it a shot rather than bluffing. And it is obvious they rarely run the stories past anyone who understands the topics, either.


58 posted on 07/29/2005 8:26:15 PM PDT by Right Wing Assault ("..this administration is planning a 'Right Wing Assault' on values and ideals.." - John Kerry)
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To: Right Wing Assault

ZOT!


59 posted on 07/29/2005 8:31:53 PM PDT by Fitzcarraldo
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To: FreedomCalls

wholey cow! :D


60 posted on 07/29/2005 8:33:12 PM PDT by Echo Talon (http://echotalon.blogspot.com)
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