WSJ: Hiroshima - Nuclear weapons, then and now.

opinionjournal.com ^ | August 5, 2005 | Editorial

[OESY]

Today--or August 6 in Japan--is the 60th anniversary of the dropping of the atomic bomb on Hiroshima, which killed outright an estimated 80,000 Japanese and hastened World War II to its conclusion on August 15. Those of us who belong to the postwar generations tend to regard the occasion as a somber, even shameful, one. But that's not how the generation of Americans who actually fought the war saw it. And if we're going to reflect seriously about the bomb, we ought first to think about it as they did.

...No surprise, then, that when news of the bomb reached Lt. Fussell and his men, they had no misgivings about its use: "...We were going to live."...

What about Japanese lives?... Since the ratio of Japanese to American combat fatalities ran about four to one, a mainland invasion could have resulted in millions of Japanese deaths--and that's not counting civilians....

Also true is that the threat nuclear weapons pose today is probably greater than ever before. That's not because they're more plentiful--thanks to the 2002 Moscow Treaty (negotiated by John Bolton), U.S. and Russian arsenals are being cut to levels not seen in 40 years. It's because nuclear know-how and technology have fallen into the hands of men such as A.Q. Khan and Kim Jong Il, and they, in turn, are but one degree of separation away from the jihadists who may someday detonate a bomb in Times or Trafalgar Square....

Looking back after 60 years, who cannot be grateful that it was Truman who had the bomb, and not Hitler or Tojo or Stalin? And looking forward, who can seriously doubt the need for might always to remain in the hands of right? That is the enduring lesson of Hiroshima, and it is one we ignore at our peril.

[A Jovial Cad]

So you'd trade two cities for your grandfather?

Yep. And I'd trade ANY American soldier/sailor/airmen/marine's life in that bargain: in a war they didn't start, against a fanatical enemy that deserved to be defeated.

Trust me, your grandfather isn't worth two cities

Trust me, asshole: he was worth a million of you, any day of the week. And all the ashes in Hiroshima & Nagasaki put together, to boot.

[Gefreiter]

1,
But civilians will always die in modern conflict, particularly in urban areas. If the death of civilians is the issue, and we agree that civilians will always be killed, then why not argue that war itself is a crime?

Or another avenue is, where is the line between combatant and non-combatant in this modern age? Civilian factory workers for war industries, agriculture workers who harvest food to feed armies, skilled civilian technicians or engineers...if there were a direct line between their job and sustaining the war effort, why wouldn't those civilians be legitimate military targets?

What about a society so rigorously militarized, as imperial Japan was, that any citizen could be a combatant? And aside from civilian considerations, what about the hard military targets in both Hiroshima or Nagasaki?

1st, it is sad that the war was fought at all, let alone with such savagery. And it is unfortunate that science, scholarship, technology, and war came together in such a way to give us atomic weapons.

But bombing of cities was brought on by the Nazis in England. You know as well as I that once the adversary goes past the limits, he should expect the same treatment back.

Japan was utterly, unquestionably crushed. There was no chance for a Japanese Dolchstoss theory, no opportunity for the empire to be retained and resurgent later.

Finally, had Japan not initiated the Pacific war, then fought it with total disregard for the generally accepted laws of land warfare, it might have ended differently for them.

[Manic_Episode]

No, it is not false. My analogy is this:
Try to harm my kids get shot in the head, whether armed or not.

One upmanship in the force continuum in self defense is absolutely justifiable.

We won, get over it.

[hgro]

You are perhaps one of the most naive, history deficient adults (Lets hope you are an adult) to comment on a subject of which you have no knowledge.

[A.A. Cunningham]

Did God fearing civilian Christians in Nagasaki deserve to die?

Why did those "God fearing civilian Christians in Nagasaki", many of whom were most likely involved in Japan's war effort, not heed the warning that God provided them, courtesy of the United States, to get out of town and avoid death?

Front side of OWI notice #2106, dubbed the “LeMay bombing leaflet,” which was delivered to Hiroshima, Nagasaki, and 33 other Japanese cities on 1 August 1945. The Japanese text on the reverse side of the leaflet carried the following warning: “Read this carefully as it may save your life or the life of a relative or friend. In the next few days, some or all of the cities named on the reverse side will be destroyed by American bombs. These cities contain military installations and workshops or factories which produce military goods. We are determined to destroy all of the tools of the military clique which they are using to prolong this useless war. But, unfortunately, bombs have no eyes. So, in accordance with America's humanitarian policies, the American Air Force, which does not wish to injure innocent people, now gives you warning to evacuate the cities named and save your lives. America is not fighting the Japanese people but is fighting the military clique which has enslaved the Japanese people. The peace which America will bring will free the people from the oppression of the military clique and mean the emergence of a new and better Japan. You can restore peace by demanding new and good leaders who will end the war. We cannot promise that only these cities will be among those attacked but some or all of them will be, so heed this warning and evacuate these cities immediately.” (See Richard S. R. Hubert, “The OWI Saipan Operation,” Official Report to US Information Service, Washington, DC 1946.)

[1stFreedom]

Stick to the issue please...

[Eric in the Ozarks]

Lived there ten years. More than anecdotal.

[A Jovial Cad]

Stick to the issue please...

He has. The "issue" is that you don't know what you're talking about, and are a troll trying to disrupt to boot.

Why don't you try sticking to the issue, and answering the historical realities that have been raised and which have, effectively, made you look silly?

[cartoonistx]

[chris1]

You are a fool. A total delusional fool. Do you realize how many people were not killed because we dropped the two A-Bombs?

The Japanese were going to fight to the death. Based on our experience fighting in the South Pacific, we realized these people would fight till the end and that the only way we would win is if we showed them we would kill every last one if that is what they wanted.

After we dropped the first one, they thought we shot our load. After we dropped the second one, they thought we might have an endless supply. It was only then they quit.

So, it would have been better for us to lose hundreds of thousands of more of our own soldiers?

[elbucko]

And Dresden was also horrific....

....and so was Cologne, so what! Just what, exactly, is your point?

[chris1]

Does the words Pearl Harbor mean anything to you????

[elbucko]

So all the residents of Hiroshima and Nagasaki were slave owners and beheaders?

Strategically, yes.

[BureaucratusMaximus]

Hiroshima and Nagasaki were crimes against humanity......

In my time here on FR, I have never read a statement as stated above, filled with such ignorance and cowardice.

Try that one out on a WWII Pacific veteran...make sure you count your teeth beforehand.

[elbucko]

And as the son of an Army soldier, a former army man myself, I can gladly say dropping the bombs was wrong and a crime against humanity.

Something tells me that part of that sentence is false.

[Pete from Shawnee Mission]

My father, a naval aviator, had orders to ship out to okinawa for the invasion. We are very likely alive because they dropped the bomb....

[Mrs. Don-o]

It’s not true that "only anti-American leftists" object to the indiscriminate killing of civilians. Whether you're talking about Hiroshima, Nanking, Nagasaki, Coventry, Hamburg, Guernica, Tokyo, New York City or anyplace else, the moral law acknowledged by Judeo-Christian civilization is the same and does not change. The deliberate shedding of innocent blood is an abomination.

"Any act of war aimed indiscriminately at the destruction of entire cities of extensive areas along with their population is a crime against God and man himself. It merits unequivocal and unhesitating condemnation. "
(Catechism of the Catholic Church)

[Pete from Shawnee Mission]

Context is ever thing. Liberals ignore context regarding the dropping of the of the atomic bomb. It does not suit their purposes.

It has been estimated that approximately 250,000 civilians were killed each month by the Japanese in their conquered territories. English and Australian prisoners of war were used as slave labor on the Burma Thailand railway,some 100,000 or so died of, illness, malnutrition, and unrelenting labor and abuse. The Bataan Death march took what? The lives of 40,000 American prisoners of war? And of course, the Japanese initiated the whole war by bombing Peal Harbor, invading china, Korea, the Philippines, etc, etc.

The Japanese had their own nuclear bomb program, but you don't hear much about that. They had a bio weaponds program in Manchuria, and tested the biological agents on Chinese and Americans prisoners of war. The Japanese were vicious killers. But the people they killed somehow don't count.

We saved countless lives and without doubt saved the lives of American, English, and Australian soldiers who were horribly mistreated in their camps. But in the liberal calculus we were the war mongers and vicious killers because we made a tactical devision to drop the atomic bomb.

[ohioman]

If you were really in the Army, your anti-American attitude would most certainly earn you a much-deserved "pillow party."

[G32]

What planet are you from? People die in wars. They started the war.