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Humans to Blame for Ice Age Extinctions, Study Says
National Geographic ^ | August 10, 2005 | Hillery Mayell

Posted on 08/11/2005 11:02:22 AM PDT by ZULU

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To: JohnnyM
yes, mitochondrial eve was without a mate for many thousands of years waiting for Y-Chromosome Adam to appear.

No, sorry. Try reading for comprehension next time.

Very logical.

It is logical when you understand it.

When you don't, though, it's easier to just to ridicule things to cover your discomfort over your inability to grasp the material.

101 posted on 08/11/2005 3:06:02 PM PDT by Ichneumon
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To: taxesareforever; antceecee
["There's a real lack of a 'smoking gun' implicating either climate change or human hunting, but that's true for every theory."]

What is not a theory is that scientists have too much time on their hands coming up with more and more theories. Until they present facts their theories belong in comic books.

What also isn't in question is that you obviously have no real idea how science works, or why scientists propose as many plausible hypotheses as they can think of, and then continue to perform validation/falsification tests on them as long as it takes for the results to clearly indicate which explanation is the correct one (or closest to the correct one, anyway).

102 posted on 08/11/2005 3:09:50 PM PDT by Ichneumon
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To: GOP_1900AD
At one point, there may have been as few as 10000 people world wide.

My high school had 2000 students. To think that at one point, there were 5 of my high schools throughout the world is just incomprehensible.

103 posted on 08/11/2005 3:16:37 PM PDT by technochick99 (firearm of choice: Sig Sauer....)
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To: antceecee; taxesareforever
Amazing what they accept as good 'science'.

Yes, it is amazing how effective the scientific method is at separating valid ideas from horse manure.

They make pronouncements on theories they pull out of their @sses and call it good science,

No they don't. You might want to refrain from trying to critique a field you don't know enough about to properly review.

but let someone suggest that there could be a higher power involved in creating the universe and they insist that is 'not scientific'

The "suggestion" is indeed not scientific, and neither is any other "suggestion" of any other sort on any other topic. If you ever get to the point where you have a testable *theory* on that subject (*and* know what actually constitutes a theory in the scientific sense and what features your proposal will have to have to qualify), do feel free to get back to us.

and thus not worth teaching against their other holy theory of 'evolution'.

Not in science class, anyway. Go right ahead and propose Odin or Shiva or whoever in a class on religion or sociology or history if you wish.

I guess 'good science' is whatever they pronounce it to be.

I guess you don't have a clue about this subject, but you keep talking anyway. "Good science" is that which follows proper scientific procedure and validation methods. If you choose to just "propose" something instead but not go through the hard work necessary to demonstrate the validity of your proposal via the proper methods, then you shouldn't complain when your proposal doesn't qualify as science, or appropriate for teaching in science class.

104 posted on 08/11/2005 3:19:29 PM PDT by Ichneumon
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To: Ichneumon

"...why scientists propose as many plausible hypotheses as they can think of, and then continue to perform validation/falsification tests on them as long as it takes for the results to clearly indicate which explanation is the correct one (or closest to the correct one, anyway)."

Even you admit they are guessing!!!
The problem with the scientific community today is many have politicized the process of validation of their ideas. They present some of the most convoluted/ridiculous theories as FACT instead of the educated guesses they truly are (I use the term educated loosely here). I have nothing against the scientific method properly and honestly applied to test hypotheses and I do believe there are many researchers who are honest, but there are many who are only reporting/validating the person paying them to do their research.
OTH, YOU respond with personal attacks against those here who have contempt for these would be Einsteins. Pehaps your feelings are hurt by the low opinion some of us hold for these scientific parasites spewing their garbage. My comments were and are not meant personally to you, only to the subject at hand. You have absolutely no idea as to the level of my education and/or experience. The fact I criticize the scientific community does not make me any less intelligent than you sir/madam.


105 posted on 08/11/2005 4:07:19 PM PDT by antceecee
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To: untrained skeptic

"It's mainly people starting with a conclusion, and looking for evidence to support it, and trying to ignore or minimize evidence that contradicts it.

In the end there's nothing useful to learn from their theory, other than that they have an agenda."

Exactly.


106 posted on 08/11/2005 4:12:57 PM PDT by antceecee
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To: Ichneumon

Admit it. It is all personal opinion.


107 posted on 08/11/2005 4:26:57 PM PDT by taxesareforever (Government is running amuck)
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To: ZULU

And how many years and federal dollars did it take for this enlightening research. Am I,as a taxpayer,getting my monies worth? duh!


108 posted on 08/11/2005 4:29:32 PM PDT by jos65
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To: conservatrice

Animals will one day sue humans.


109 posted on 08/11/2005 4:30:43 PM PDT by expatguy (http://laotze.blogspot.com/)
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To: taxed2death
Wooly Mammoth... the "other white meat"

You wouldn't happen to know this guy?

Please don't ask me to explain anything about this strip, such as how the shark and turtle are talking, how the shark is holding the spear gun, where he got the spear gun, etc. Just know that I saw this on the web site for the strip (www.slagoon.com) and knew that I was hooked.

110 posted on 08/11/2005 5:52:16 PM PDT by Phsstpok (There are lies, damned lies, statistics and presentation graphics, in descending order of truth)
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To: jos65

Sorry. Not even a sloth bone.


111 posted on 08/11/2005 6:28:30 PM PDT by ZULU (Fear the government which fears your guns. God, guts, and guns made America great.)
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To: ZULU

Now if we could just be responsible for the extinction of liberals we'd be gettin somewhere....


112 posted on 08/11/2005 8:50:38 PM PDT by festus (The constitution may be flawed but its a whole lot better than what we have now.)
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To: ZULU

Oh, please ... just, frickin' please.


113 posted on 08/11/2005 8:53:01 PM PDT by Let's Roll ( "Congressmen who ... undermine the military ... should be arrested, exiled or hanged" - A. Lincoln)
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To: Let's Roll

Sorry. Begging will get you nowhere.

No sloth or Mammoth for you today!


114 posted on 08/11/2005 9:04:47 PM PDT by ZULU (Fear the government which fears your guns. God, guts, and guns made America great.)
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To: ZULU

Obviously they would have preferred the humans to starve instead.

Must be a great feeling, going through life filled with such self-loathing for fulfilling Holy Darwin's Sacred Dictate:

"The fittest shalt survivest; yea, he shalt extinctify the unfit competitor."


115 posted on 08/11/2005 9:06:41 PM PDT by ApplegateRanch (The Marching Morons are coming...and they're breeding more Democrats beyond all reason!)
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To: SunkenCiv

PINGAROONY!


116 posted on 08/11/2005 9:33:36 PM PDT by ApplegateRanch (The Marching Morons are coming...and they're breeding more Democrats beyond all reason!)
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To: ApplegateRanch; blam; FairOpinion; Ernest_at_the_Beach; StayAt HomeMother; 24Karet; 3AngelaD; ...
Thanks AppleGateRanch for the pingerino.

To all -- please ping me to other topics which are appropriate for the GGG list. Thanks.
Please FREEPMAIL me if you want on or off the
"Gods, Graves, Glyphs" PING list or GGG weekly digest
-- Archaeology/Anthropology/Ancient Cultures/Artifacts/Antiquities, etc.
Gods, Graves, Glyphs (alpha order)

117 posted on 08/11/2005 10:23:46 PM PDT by SunkenCiv (Down with Dhimmicrats! I last updated by FR profile on Tuesday, May 10, 2005.)
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To: ZULU
They had an article recently about a human footprint found in Mexico that was dated to 40,000 years ago. It was preserved in lava.

The footprint was headed towards the Rio Grande.

Well yeah, I'd be heading for the water too if I just stepped in some lava! LOL

118 posted on 08/11/2005 11:05:31 PM PDT by Auntie Dem (Hey! Hey! Ho! Ho! Terrorist lovers gotta go!)
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To: Ichneumon
What also isn't in question is that you obviously have no real idea how science works, or why scientists propose as many plausible hypotheses as they can think of, and then continue to perform validation/falsification tests on them as long as it takes for the results to clearly indicate which explanation is the correct one (or closest to the correct one, anyway).

So you're saying science is just one "shot in the dark" after another, or put another way, "A bunch of wild-ass guesses" (SWAG)?

"Science" today has been prostituted by the left to be just another hammer to force their warped view of the world on the rest of us politically. Just as one doesn't need to be a meteorologist to know when it's going to rain, you don't need to be a "scientist" to smell the BS.

119 posted on 08/11/2005 11:13:51 PM PDT by Auntie Dem (Hey! Hey! Ho! Ho! Terrorist lovers gotta go!)
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To: Ichneumon

You left out "peer review". They produce theories that their "peers" agree with. It is not only their opinion it is the opinion of elitists that that won't see the light of day unless it has their stamp of approval on it. It's called "The scientific establishment" and to get along you better toe the line of the elitists. To suggest that I don't see the big picture is pure bunk. I spent three hours in a public meeting last night listening to environmentalist poppycock. I know what the big picture looks like and it leaves out a whole bunch of people that have common sense.


120 posted on 08/11/2005 11:15:27 PM PDT by taxesareforever (Government is running amuck)
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To: Ichneumon; antceecee

Common sense will win a war over scientific evaluation. Matter of fact, the war would be long over before the scientific solution were agreed upon by the elitists.


121 posted on 08/11/2005 11:18:11 PM PDT by taxesareforever (Government is running amuck)
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To: ZULU
"Burp" Ha Ha!

"sloths survived until about 4,400 years ago. " on Hispaniola and Caribbean islands.

That means long boats of some sort arrived 4400 years ago. That would coincide with Egyptian and Phoenician development. Coinkidink? I ask you.
122 posted on 08/12/2005 1:08:50 AM PDT by FastCoyote
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To: Night Hides Not
Now I can't find buffalo jerky anywhere.

As any good hunter knows, buffalo jerky can be found at your nearest gun show...

123 posted on 08/12/2005 1:57:51 AM PDT by Drammach (Freedom; not just a job, it's an adventure..)
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To: calex59
The fact is, after the ice the water of the plains eventurally went away, as rain fall wasn't that great, the prey annimals died and then the big predators died from lack of food.

A good deal of the central plains was actually woodland at the time.. At least that south of the glacial lakes..
When the glacial dams ( I think they were called Morains ) broke under the pressure, great floods swept south destroying much of those woodlands..
They weren't that heavy, but much more forested than the plains of today..
Those woodlands provided cover for predators, allowing them to close in on their prey before a quick, rushing attack to dispatch the prey..

Additionally the glacial lakes would have been fairly heavily forested along the shorelines..
In fact, as the glacial melt began, water levels would have risen right into the surrounding forestlands..
Big Cats especially, do a great deal of their hunting along the shores and banks of "watering holes"..
That is where the meat is..

Big predators need big protein..
Open plains mean plenty of running room for buffalo, antelope, etc..
Running down prey on an open plain requires even more protein..
Somewhere along the line, you find a point of no return, benefit less than effort required..
End result: Starvation..

I think you are essentially correct, but the actual emergence of wide open plains actually occurred at the end of the Ice age as well as all those other factors..
Climate change, (warming) glacial melt causing flooding, ( Mega Flash Floods ) The sudden loss of possibly thousands of small lakes and of course, the big glacial lakes, the loss of grazing land scoured by the floods, probably the deaths of millions of herbivores as well as thousands of carnivores..
All these factors would have contributed to the loss of not only mega fauna but taken a major chunk out of any other animal or human inhabitants throughout the Midwest, upper midwest, the northwest, large chunks of mid-southern Canada, etc...( Not positive about the eastern continent, but I seem to recall much of the same flooding, etc. took place there as well..
The arrival of a large number of new human inhabitants would have eventually contributed as well, ( I believe there were other, earlier, smaller groups scattered about along the east and gulf coast, as well as central and south american coast ) but I believe much of the "damage" was natural..
As others have pointed out, I don't think there were enough humans here at that point to have had that much effect on ALL of the Mega Fauna of America..
Just doesn't make sense..

124 posted on 08/12/2005 2:38:17 AM PDT by Drammach (Freedom; not just a job, it's an adventure..)
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To: Drammach
As any good hunter knows, buffalo jerky can be found at your nearest gun show...

Thanks for the tip! I'll take my boys with me...it should be a lot of fun.

125 posted on 08/12/2005 3:36:27 AM PDT by Night Hides Not (The only NOC list containing the name of Valerie Plame was stolen by Ethan Hunt.)
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To: ZULU

No comment other than the fact that the grants that paid for this study were a waste of cash.


126 posted on 08/12/2005 4:30:18 AM PDT by Dustbunny (The only good terrorist is a dead terrorist)
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To: Publius6961

"And they were 100% wrong."

I must have missed their retraction. So, that whole thing turned out to be bogus?


127 posted on 08/12/2005 7:34:14 AM PDT by dsc
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To: ZULU
This is all speculation. The only "evidence" that the "so-called" experts had was that it appeared that the Giant Sloths died out around 11,000BC, and that it is a common assumption that humans emigrated to North America via the land bridge around 11,000 BC. That is not proof.

Proof are Giant Sloth bones with cut marks on them. Proof consists of cave paintings of Giant Sloths being hunted. Proof consists of a number of other things that are evidence for this speculation.

For all we know, the sloth tasted terrible. So just because one theory dovetails into another theory is no reason for an out and out connection, that is unless one states that the speculation has some solid rationale behind it.

128 posted on 08/12/2005 9:42:40 AM PDT by vannrox (The Preamble to the Bill of Rights - without it, our Bill of Rights is meaningless!)
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To: ZULU

well, there ya have it. We global freeze, we global warm...seem evolution has really done a poor job by allowing us to proliferate so much.


129 posted on 08/12/2005 9:44:03 AM PDT by the invisib1e hand (see my FR page for a link to the tribute to Terri Schaivo, a short video presentation.)
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To: ZULU
Humans are likely responsible for the extinction of Ice Age megafauna—large mammals like giant sloths, short-faced bears, mammoths, and saber-toothed cats—that occurred in the Americas around 11,000 years ago, a new study says.

That's okay. We still have cows.

130 posted on 08/12/2005 9:44:49 AM PDT by Lazamataz (Islam is merely Nazism without the snappy fashion sense.)
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To: vannrox

I think the main hole in their theory is that there is irrefutable proof that the Clovis First Theory is dead.

Unless they can come up with something better than a Clovis point as an indication of a new factor around 11,000 years ago, this theory holds no water - not even ice.

Why did man live here for over 30,000 years without eating into extinction all the ice age megafauna, and then all of a sudden, 11,000 years ago wipe them out??

Some cultural change?? New "invaders"?


131 posted on 08/12/2005 9:48:30 AM PDT by ZULU (Fear the government which fears your guns. God, guts, and guns made America great.)
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To: Night Hides Not
Thanks for the tip! I'll take my boys with me...it should be a lot of fun.

Lots more than guns at Gun Shows..
Found a great refractor telescope there, cheap.. also binoculars.. In the late summer and fall, there are all sorts of hunting jackets, other gear, tons of knives, and kitchen-dining room cutlery, tools of all sorts, ( magnifiers, tweezers, "extra hands", vices, grinders ) exotic woods ( pick your project, not just for knife handles ) and other oddball stuff..

And of course, there are guns, but often you will find historical exhibits as well..
Civil War weapons, complete with photos of the military units that used them..
Historical western gear, used by cowboys, sherriffs, outlaws, you name it.. again, often accompanied by photos, sherrriff's badges, other documents..
There can also be WW1, WW2 memorabilia, from all the military branches, and tons of books recounting various military operations from Sicily to Iwo Jima..

Throughout, you will find Men and Women that are dedicated to America, Patriotism, and the 2nd amendment..
A good message and example for young men..

Have a good time..

132 posted on 08/12/2005 11:08:02 PM PDT by Drammach (Freedom; not just a job, it's an adventure..)
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To: ZULU

It's Bush's fault. He should be forced apologize and explain why this had to happen.


133 posted on 08/12/2005 11:15:26 PM PDT by Republican Wildcat
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To: Yo-Yo
They are warming up to blaming the humans for melting all those nice ice sheets, too.

Just one small problem, though. Humans were on the North American Continent long before the Clovis types which are generally dated ca 12,000 years ago. Seems they would have gnawed the last of the big critters before Clovis or Folsum cultures got their spears sharpened...

Ordinary climate change and diminishing habitat got the megafauna, and climate has been changing and will continue to change regardless of humans actions short of full tilt nuclear war. I really doubt we have that much global influence.

Most of this crap was started as a Communist Bloc effort (their seed money plus a lot of useful idiots) to shut down West Bloc industry during the Cold War.

134 posted on 08/12/2005 11:25:42 PM PDT by Smokin' Joe (God save us from the fury of the do-gooders!)
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To: calex59
Pretty soon we will have somehow made the dinos die off.

Nasty little pygmies eating thunder lizard omlettes.....

135 posted on 08/12/2005 11:30:22 PM PDT by Smokin' Joe (God save us from the fury of the do-gooders!)
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To: Night Hides Not
One hunt provided meat until the smell got too bad, and then they pulled stakes and left the area. It was a pig-out, with whatever could be eaten eaten, whatever could be smoked preserved, and the rest left to rot.

Not until the horse (nasty white guy innovation) did the hunt become more efficient, just because they could take individual animals instead of killing them wholesale.

136 posted on 08/12/2005 11:34:11 PM PDT by Smokin' Joe (God save us from the fury of the do-gooders!)
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To: ZULU

Maybe 11,000 years ago they invented the chilli cook-off?


137 posted on 08/12/2005 11:44:08 PM PDT by Smokin' Joe (God save us from the fury of the do-gooders!)
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To: ZULU

those cavemen drove SUVs ?


138 posted on 08/12/2005 11:51:37 PM PDT by isom35
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To: ZULU
"Humans are likely responsible for the extinction of Ice Age megafauna .....that occurred in the Americas around 11,000 years ago, a new study says. "

.......Solid evidence that Europeans arrived in America long before Columbus.

139 posted on 08/13/2005 12:00:19 AM PDT by cookcounty (Army Vet, Army Dad.)
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To: When do we get liberated?

HE was killing all those creatures and burying them in shale so he could reap oil profits 11,000 years later!


140 posted on 08/13/2005 12:12:26 AM PDT by KingNo155
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The Cycle of Cosmic Catastrophes: Flood, Fire, and Famine in the History of Civilization The Cycle of Cosmic Catastrophes:
Flood, Fire, and Famine
in the History of Civilization

by Richard Firestone,
Allen West, and
Simon Warwick-Smith

 
Catastrophism
 
· join · view topics · view or post blog · bookmark · post new topic · subscribe ·
 

141 posted on 03/28/2011 3:42:29 PM PDT by SunkenCiv (Thanks Cincinna for this link -- http://www.friendsofitamar.org)
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142 posted on 03/28/2011 3:45:04 PM PDT by SunkenCiv (Thanks Cincinna for this link -- http://www.friendsofitamar.org)
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· GGG managers are SunkenCiv, StayAt HomeMother, and Ernest_at_the_Beach ·
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143 posted on 03/28/2011 3:45:18 PM PDT by SunkenCiv (Thanks Cincinna for this link -- http://www.friendsofitamar.org)
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To: ZULU
Climate change may have been a factor in pushing the animals to extinction, Steadman says, but it took humans to push them over the edge

Survival of the fittest. Get over it.

144 posted on 03/28/2011 3:46:15 PM PDT by Cementjungle
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To: ZULU
Ok, when I open this thread I get the following pop-up window:

The server www.phil.fak.uni-duesseldor.de:80 introduction module I requires a username and password

It gives me a login screen. Weird.

145 posted on 03/28/2011 3:49:24 PM PDT by Sawdring
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To: SunkenCiv

Read my #145, do you get the same thing when you open this thread?


146 posted on 03/28/2011 3:52:53 PM PDT by Sawdring
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To: Sawdring

I got some kind of popup on page one, I believe it has to do with one of the posted graphics.


147 posted on 03/28/2011 4:56:24 PM PDT by SunkenCiv (Thanks Cincinna for this link -- http://www.friendsofitamar.org)
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