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Happy Birthday, India. (She turns 58 today)
Sify News ^ | 8/15/05 | Sify news service

Posted on 08/14/2005 7:47:48 PM PDT by voletti

On midnight 14th August 1947, Great Britain ceded soverignity over the Indian subcontinent to its native people. The struggle for Independence was led by Mohandas K Gandhi and boasted stalwarts like Nehru. The day also marked the birth in blood of 2 new nations - India and Pakistan - in one ancient land .

(Excerpt) Read more at sify.com ...


TOPICS: Culture/Society; Foreign Affairs; Front Page News; Miscellaneous; News/Current Events; United Kingdom
KEYWORDS: gandhi; happybirthday; india; nehru; pakistan
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Must say, there seems to be something about the Brits. They left their colonies in decent enough shape to become successful democracies following the rule of law. Contrast that with ex-spanish, Dutch or worse, French colonies.....and you'll know what I'm talking about.
1 posted on 08/14/2005 7:47:48 PM PDT by voletti
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To: voletti

This was one of the worst debacles in British history. Read "Freedom at Midnight" for a well-documented history of this tragedy.


2 posted on 08/14/2005 7:58:23 PM PDT by Luddite Patent Counsel (Theyre digging through all of your files, stealing back your best ideas.)
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To: voletti
Happy Birthday.........to a nation who is smart enough to understand the USA........thanx........
3 posted on 08/14/2005 8:03:33 PM PDT by marmar (Even though I may look different then you...my blood runs red, white and blue.....)
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To: marmar

Happy Birthday to India !!! Isn't it one of two nations on the entire globe that actually LIKES the USA? I was impressed last month when its presidented visted, and hope we can move forward with India as an ally.


4 posted on 08/14/2005 8:05:53 PM PDT by EDINVA
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To: EDINVA

Exactly.......that is why I gladly say Happy Birthday India, may the Light shine on you brightly.....


5 posted on 08/14/2005 8:07:20 PM PDT by marmar (Even though I may look different then you...my blood runs red, white and blue.....)
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To: marmar

not to mention India is heavily populated with really bright, well educated people ... and those, of course, who aren't ... but most Indians I've met are EXTREMELY well educated in many spheres.


6 posted on 08/14/2005 8:10:43 PM PDT by EDINVA
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To: EDINVA

Lots of doctors.........


7 posted on 08/14/2005 8:11:51 PM PDT by marmar (Even though I may look different then you...my blood runs red, white and blue.....)
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To: voletti

dotn forget the contribution of Hitler and the rest of germany. Had there been no world wars India would likely have been like Autralia or Canada (not to say thats bad).
And who forget the Indian Natioanl army which allied with Hitler and Japan against the US and her allies.

now as for the colonies, France tried to reclaim indo china after losing it to Japan.. damn frogs.


8 posted on 08/14/2005 8:19:19 PM PDT by minus_273
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To: marmar

what do you mean India became a socialist state and allied with the soviets in the cold war. They also founded the non aligned movement to oppose the US.


9 posted on 08/14/2005 8:20:31 PM PDT by minus_273
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To: voletti

Listening to the recent talk by the India PM to Congress, I am convinced India has come of age, and is well on its way to be a power to take note of. The next few years of alliance with India should interesting.


10 posted on 08/14/2005 8:48:11 PM PDT by mikeIII
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To: voletti

Happy Birthday, India!!! Here's some American jobs!

Yours,

George W. Bush


11 posted on 08/14/2005 10:53:40 PM PDT by Blzbba (For a man who does not know to which port he is sailing, no wind is favorable - Seneca)
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To: Luddite Patent Counsel
Ah, another lapdog of ol' blighty defending British Imperialism.

India has one of the fastest growing economies in the world and may even surpass ol' blighty within my lifetime. F--k the Tories and their sadness of the "loss of the Raj."

12 posted on 08/14/2005 10:56:18 PM PDT by Clemenza (Intelligent Design Isn't Very Intelligent)
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To: Luddite Patent Counsel; Clemenza

This was one of the worst debacles in British history. Read "Freedom at Midnight" for a well-documented history of this tragedy.

"Freedom at Midnight" is pure crap. Larry Collins and Dominique Lapierre (French-frog) are two liberal pukes and lickspittles of the Raj.......... And there are quite a few of them on FR as well.

This was one of the worst debacles in British history.

Yeah a mistake that was corrected in 1947.

And now the ol' Blighty Raj and their apologists can relegate themselves to the sewers of history. The so-called "Great Britain"(the Poms call it to pamper their vanity) is just a "has-been-shadow-of-a-has-been-power", whose presence or absence from the world scene today does not make any difference. Pommies were never more irrelevant to the world politics then today. The ol' Blighty is just a deadwood still occupying the UN seat. It is high time they hand it over to G4 with dignity.


13 posted on 08/15/2005 4:33:39 AM PDT by Gengis Khan (Since light travels faster than sound, people appear bright until u hear them speak.)
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To: voletti

bttt


14 posted on 08/15/2005 4:41:55 AM PDT by Guenevere
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To: Gengis Khan; Clemenza

Easy enough to resort to name-calling when you have no facts to back your bile. India is a third-world backwater joke and always will be, whether you want to pretend it's a "democracy" or not. Besides the hundreds of thousands, perhaps millions, of people killed as a direct result, many of India's (and Pakistan's)present problems can be traced to the incompetent manner in which independence came about. If you want to stick your heads up your arses and ignore that, and celebrate such idiocy, go right ahead. Seems to be a natural position for you.


15 posted on 08/15/2005 7:36:52 AM PDT by Luddite Patent Counsel (Theyre digging through all of your files, stealing back your best ideas.)
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To: Luddite Patent Counsel
Easy enough to resort to name-calling when you have no facts to back your bile.
 
You bloody-well asked for the bile with your first post, mate. And you whine now that you cant stand the heat? How Pommie of you!
 
India is a third-world backwater joke and always will be, whether you want to pretend it's a "democracy" or not.
 
Whatever it is, its way better then the "dhimmocracy" that is Britain.The much vaunted greatness of the so-called "Great Britain" is by far a bigger joke then any that exists in the world today. At best its an inconsequential and impotent province of Europe (not even worth calling a country) at worse its a country that whores its arse to the Dhimmies.
 
Besides the hundreds of thousands, perhaps millions, of people killed as a direct result, many of India's (and Pakistan's)present problems can be traced to the incompetent manner in which independence came about.
 
Incompetent? Naah. Its was the result of the Machiavellian schemes of the Pommie pukes, the likes of Mountbatten (who of course was cuckolded by none other then Nehru), unleashed it on India by design. Thanks to India which started the process of decolonisation and dismantling of the vestiges of the Raj, London was relegated to their deserving place in world politics, ie the sewers. Even Ireland has better standing then Britain in world politics. Personally I think the English shithole would be better off inside the EU and under the French and Germans.
 
If you want to stick your heads up your arses and ignore that, and celebrate such idiocy, go right ahead. Seems to be a natural position for you.
Not bloody likely.
Then again talking about arse, had it not been for the Indians fighting and dying for the British pansies in World war I and World war II the Pommie arse would have been disfigured beyond recognition by the Jerries and the Japs. The effeminate and upscale British mama's boys (or mama's pantywaist rather) would have had their (spineless) necks shoved through their tiny anal apertures by the Germans and Japanese had it not been the Indians and other colonial armies coming to their aid. The big mistake we Indians did was to save the British arse so that now they can make gratuitous remarks about India.
 
Why dont YOU stick your head out and see yourself in the mirror.

16 posted on 08/15/2005 11:38:50 AM PDT by Gengis Khan (Since light travels faster than sound, people appear bright until u hear them speak.)
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To: sukhoi-30mki; Cronos; CarrotAndStick; razoroccam; Arjun; samsonite; Bombay Bloke; mindfever; ...

Pinging you!

.....you might enjoy my responses.


17 posted on 08/15/2005 11:42:52 AM PDT by Gengis Khan (Since light travels faster than sound, people appear bright until u hear them speak.)
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To: Luddite Patent Counsel
India is a third-world backwater joke and always will be, whether you want to pretend it's a "democracy" or not.

India is a rapidly modernizing nation that is throwing off its flirtations with socialism of the last century and taking its rightful place on the world stage.

India is also a well-established democracy. English has been spoken on the sub-continent for almost as long as on this continent. Finally, India is threatened by Islamo-fascism.

It should be clear to any thinking person that, in the 21st Century, the USA and India are natural allies.

18 posted on 08/15/2005 11:43:54 AM PDT by Modernman ("A conservative government is an organized hypocrisy." -Disraeli)
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To: voletti

An Indian woman who works for said that she wishes the British would come back.


19 posted on 08/15/2005 11:44:39 AM PDT by DM1
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To: Gengis Khan
You bloody-well asked for the bile with your first post, mate

I am most decidedly not your "mate". Outside of Massachussetts, we don't condone that stuff here. As to the rest of your post, you're on an American site. Try learning the vernacular before you continue sounding like a character from Trailer Park Boys. And if you would come up for air, you might note that I didn't post anything about the state of the U.K. today. Perhaps such stuff is tattooed on the interior of your colon, and you read it there.

20 posted on 08/15/2005 11:48:22 AM PDT by Luddite Patent Counsel (Theyre digging through all of your files, stealing back your best ideas.)
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To: MadIvan
You've got to see this....

Gengis Khan wrote: Whatever it is, its way better then the "dhimmocracy" that is Britain.The much vaunted greatness of the so-called "Great Britain" is by far a bigger joke then any that exists in the world today. At best its an inconsequential and impotent province of Europe (not even worth calling a country) at worse its a country that whores its arse to the Dhimmies.

21 posted on 08/15/2005 11:48:24 AM PDT by wtc911 (see my profile for how to contribute to a pentagon heroes fund)
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To: Luddite Patent Counsel
This was one of the worst debacles in British history. Read "Freedom at Midnight" for a well-documented history of this tragedy.

Can you give us a hint?

Worse than giving almost all of "palestine" to the muslims when it was supposed to be 50-50?

22 posted on 08/15/2005 11:48:47 AM PDT by Publius6961 (Liberal level playing field: If the Islamics win we are their slaves..if we win they are our equals.)
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To: DM1

Indians often say things without any seriousness. Chattering classes. It's been a badge for centuries. To claim some Indian wants a foreign power to rule it is sheer stupidity.


23 posted on 08/15/2005 12:13:43 PM PDT by CarrotAndStick (The articles posted by me needn't necessarily reflect my opinion.)
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To: CarrotAndStick

"To claim some Indian wants a foreign power to rule it is sheer stupidity. " well that is a nice statement i do not believe i referenced anything but an anectdote. No need to state someone is stupid based on a conversation now is there. That being said were you involved in this conversation? No? well then telling someone who was what he or she claimed is in fact sheer stupidity. Also as it happens this conversation started with her stating that there is a lot of corruption now and how the British introduced Common law which although not perfect helped to bridge a bit of their caste system by helping out what are referred to as untouchables. She claimed that in many respects they were better off. You dont like it, fine just relaying a conversation i was involved in keep your "sheer stupidity" comments to yourself


24 posted on 08/15/2005 12:24:19 PM PDT by DM1
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To: Publius6961
Can you give us a hint? Worse than giving almost all of "palestine" to the muslims when it was supposed to be 50-50?

One example, the Pakistan/India division was made without any consideration of where the Hindu and Muslim populations lived, and without sufficient notice to allow for orderly relocation. As a result, millions of people were uprooted, at least hundreds of thousands, perhaps millions, died in the upheaval as a result. Many more innocent deaths than have occurred with the Palestine debacle.

25 posted on 08/15/2005 12:35:22 PM PDT by Luddite Patent Counsel (Theyre digging through all of your files, stealing back your best ideas.)
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To: voletti
She doesn't look a day over 50. ;-)
26 posted on 08/15/2005 12:45:58 PM PDT by CounterCounterCulture
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To: Clemenza
India has one of the fastest growing economies in the world and may even surpass ol' blighty within my lifetime.

That's at the outside edge of possible. According to my calculations and Nationmaster, if you live 40 more years and the UK only grows in per capita terms 0.5% a year over that term (a low estimate), India would have to grow on average 6.34% per capita over that span. Possible, but just barely. It appears to have turned the corner, but is still a very poor country.

But all people should welcome the rise of India independently of geopolitics.

27 posted on 08/15/2005 12:48:27 PM PDT by untenured (http://futureuncertain.blogspot.com)
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Comment #28 Removed by Moderator

To: DM1

You are correct - many older Indians express that viewpoint (especially those above age 65). They feel that there has been a tremendous decline in law and order. Freedom has meant rights over responsibility.

For this, I blame Gandhi, Nehru, and the Congress party.

However, I am more optimistic about India with the present generation - they are more gutsy, take initiative, don't give a damn about Gandhi or Nehru, are capitalistic, and don't give much thought to stupid caste considerations.

And I wish India the best on its birthday.


29 posted on 08/15/2005 12:52:15 PM PDT by razoroccam (Then in the name of Allah, they will let loose the Germs of War (http://www.booksurge.com))
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To: razoroccam

"You are correct -"
Thank you, I also hope that India can get moving in a positive direction.


30 posted on 08/15/2005 12:56:43 PM PDT by DM1
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To: Luddite Patent Counsel
You are correct about this being the worst debacle - at least 2 million Hindus, Sikhs, and Muslims died. The blame, and there is plenty to go around, goes to the British who did not foresee the communal forces being unleashed, to Nehru who put his ambition above his country, and to Gandhi who, lost in a self-delusional grandness and naivete, subjected India to such a brutal outcome. If Gandhi was truly a Mahatma, he would have the guts to tell the British and Nehru to keep India in its empire rather than divide it. But then, he wasn't truly a Mahatma and his threats of "over my dead body" proved more hot air than reality
31 posted on 08/15/2005 12:58:04 PM PDT by razoroccam (Then in the name of Allah, they will let loose the Germs of War (http://www.booksurge.com))
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To: MadIvan

Considering that I left India due to Gandhi, don't see why I should have to apologize for her. Heck, I am due for a refund. Now, whom to get it from? Hmmmmmmm.......


32 posted on 08/15/2005 1:01:47 PM PDT by razoroccam (Then in the name of Allah, they will let loose the Germs of War (http://www.booksurge.com))
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To: Luddite Patent Counsel
I am most decidedly not your "mate". Outside of Massachussetts, we don't condone that stuff here.
 
Har har har........... your kind never fails to pick up the wrong connotation. One that has to do with the favourite Pommie pastime. LOL!
 
The word "mate" works in more the one way in the Anglo sphere btw.
 
Perhaps such stuff is tattooed on the interior of your colon, and you read it there.
 
And looks like you have got the whole literature engraved on your sigmoid flexure (the vernaculars included).

33 posted on 08/15/2005 1:03:43 PM PDT by Gengis Khan (Since light travels faster than sound, people appear bright until u hear them speak.)
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To: razoroccam
If Gandhi was truly a Mahatma, he would have the guts to tell the British and Nehru to keep India in its empire rather than divide it.

Something about this triad's history the world should not be willing to ignore, but it does.

(Jinnah was stronger than Gandhi, Nehru, and the British all combined.)

34 posted on 08/15/2005 1:08:17 PM PDT by ARridgerunner
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To: ARridgerunner

Jinnah was a British tool.


35 posted on 08/15/2005 1:11:15 PM PDT by Gengis Khan (Since light travels faster than sound, people appear bright until u hear them speak.)
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To: Gengis Khan

How so?


36 posted on 08/15/2005 1:14:15 PM PDT by ARridgerunner
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To: ARridgerunner

Indeed - the ironies abound.

Gandhi and Nehru were both educated in England. Nehru, especially, was a fabian socialist, which was so popular in England. Fabian socialism crept into the Labour party and despite Tony Blair, afflicts it to some extent even now. A part of this was political correctness and servile attitude towards other cultures while belittling one's own. This attitude can be seen in Gandhi/Nehru's Congress and British Labour.

India has been paying the price since 1947, and we saw last month the British paying the price for it.


37 posted on 08/15/2005 1:20:09 PM PDT by razoroccam (Then in the name of Allah, they will let loose the Germs of War (http://www.booksurge.com))
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To: MadIvan
Before Britain came along, people in India were divided by ridiculous numbers of languages,
 
We still have as many as 814 languages and dialects. After Britain what?
 
, had no experience of democracy
Yeah. While the Brits were there we had none at all.
 
and thought it was OK to light the old wife on fire if her husband happened to kick the bucket
 
Sorry to break it to you but the Brits did nothing to stop it. They perpetuated it until the social reformers from within the Hindu fold pressurised the British gov to put an end to it.
 
We gave you English, railways, experience with Democracy..
 
English.....yes.
Railways.......yes. (In anycase we had to rebuild it when we switched over to meter guage).
Democracy........nope!
 
You would not be where you are without us. You would not be who you are without us.
 
Oh we will erect a monument  in your name.
 
Sheesh!
 
Remember that before you spout off arrogant bullshit. Because you wouldn't be able to understand what the hell is being said on here without Britain having been in India.
 
Wont have mattered much. I dont think Indians willingly embraced slavery for your exalted "English".
 
that is effing rich coming from a country that sided with the Soviet Union during the Cold War
 
Dont forget YOUR country embraced Pakistan before we "sided with the Soviet Union".
 
and is harbouring more Muslims than Pakistan
 
Muslims ....yes. (The world's second largest Muslim country).
Dhimmis ......none.
 
I'll take that kind of comment seriously when you apologise to the world for Indira Gandhi.
 
Indira Gandhi did some pretty horrible things but ........remember Bangladesh? She was dead right on that one.
 
And I'll take your kind of comments seriously when you apologise to the world for the crimes of the Raj.

38 posted on 08/15/2005 1:38:50 PM PDT by Gengis Khan (Since light travels faster than sound, people appear bright until u hear them speak.)
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To: voletti
I hope this is the right thread to add "Happy Birthday" wishes to Pakistan as well.

I would hope that the recent moves at reconciliation between the two neightbors lead to a real peace down the road.

39 posted on 08/15/2005 2:04:33 PM PDT by Peter vE (Ceterum censeo: delenda est Carthago.)
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To: voletti

I was going to make a birthday cake, and then I remembered just how many folks there are in India - I didn't want to start any arguments over who got a bigger piece and all that, so I dropped the idea...


40 posted on 08/15/2005 2:27:31 PM PDT by AzSteven
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To: Luddite Patent Counsel

"India is a third-world backwater joke and always will be"

Weren't serious about that, were you?


41 posted on 08/15/2005 2:28:03 PM PDT by razoroccam (Then in the name of Allah, they will let loose the Germs of War (http://www.booksurge.com))
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To: voletti

The phrase, "gunboat diplomacy" originated with the actions of the British in one of their colonies. British gunboats cruised up and down a river, blasting villages as a punitive measure.

Ghandi raised an impressive amount of support in India by peaceful means, and Britain was facing the impending support aroused there. India has come far since her independence but not before.

My ancestors who fought in the American Revolutionary War would also have disagreed with your comments.

France didn't do any worse than Britain with her many Muslim colonies. In fact, in at least one British colony in a Muslim territory, the Arabs beheaded a who city of British men, women and children. Their heads were piked all around the city.

Western Europe is western Europe--not one of those countries much better than another.


42 posted on 08/15/2005 9:21:11 PM PDT by familyop ("Let us try" sounds better, don't you think? "Essayons" is so...Latin.)
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To: voletti

Happy Birthday to India, though! It's quickly becoming a great country without the help of any "empire!"



43 posted on 08/15/2005 9:22:20 PM PDT by familyop ("Let us try" sounds better, don't you think? "Essayons" is so...Latin.)
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To: Luddite Patent Counsel
"India's (and Pakistan's)present problems can be traced to the incompetent manner in which independence came about."

India did manage to put an "Empire" out on its rear end, just as our USA and Israel did.

And India's getting better as a result. It's a powerful country now--in resourcefulness and attitude, far more powerful than Britain is. And I would much more rather work for Indians than Britons.
44 posted on 08/15/2005 9:28:54 PM PDT by familyop ("Let us try" sounds better, don't you think? "Essayons" is so...Latin.)
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To: voletti

happy birthday India, now can someone there please reset my netscape email password?


45 posted on 08/15/2005 9:34:11 PM PDT by isom35
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To: voletti; All
Photo Essay: Independence Day Celebrations Prime Minister's Independence Day Speech
46 posted on 08/15/2005 9:47:37 PM PDT by Srirangan
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To: Gengis Khan
So far as I'm concerned, there's nothing to apologise for. Britain's takeover of India was due to a vacuum of power after the Mughal Empire collapsed.

And you neatly sidestepped, gobshite, the whole Democracy issue - it's not just a matter of actually voting, but its the education and laws your leaders received. Gandhi was a solicitor, remember? Without British laws and traditions, there was no philosophical basis in the Indian tradition to have come up with the democratic system India now enjoys.

As for suttee - don't lie about that either. As this shows::

British governors generally taxed fairly and improved their holdings, often building roads in the region. Eventually, though, the British also began to impose their own ideas of culture on the people they governed in South Asia. For instance, they forbade the religious practice of suttee, in which, where women threw themselves on the burning funeral pyres of their husbands.

Never, ever lie to my face. Just don't try it.

Ivan

47 posted on 08/15/2005 10:18:53 PM PDT by MadIvan (You underestimate the power of the Dark Side - http://www.sithorder.com/)
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To: MadIvan

True the British did a few good things. But they only did it for their profit, not with the motive to govern the people fairly.


48 posted on 08/16/2005 6:36:34 AM PDT by Srirangan
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To: Srirangan
True the British did a few good things. But they only did it for their profit, not with the motive to govern the people fairly.

What possible directly deriveable economic benefit was there in educating the likes of Nehru and Gandhi? What benefit was there from killing the Thugee?

Answer: none.

Try again.

Ivan

49 posted on 08/16/2005 7:30:28 AM PDT by MadIvan (You underestimate the power of the Dark Side - http://www.sithorder.com/)
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To: MadIvan

Gandhi - You solely asked for economic benefits. Well, under Gandhi India started producing -salt- something that the British Raj forced India to import from UK.

Nehru - Hundreds of Dams, Schools, Universities, and othe rinsitutions under his govt. You ask "what benefit?".

Try you? No thanks, you seem to be pretty ill informed. I'm all to happy to leave it at that.


50 posted on 08/16/2005 7:49:03 AM PDT by Srirangan
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