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Phoenix firm to build huge solar farm
MSNBC ^
| Aug. 14, 2005
| Adam Kress
Posted on 08/15/2005 8:31:47 PM PDT by nickcarraway
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To: nickcarraway
Stirling's concentrated solar dish -- unlike photovoltaic panels that collect sunlight on a much smaller scale -- harnesses heat from the sun with 82 mirrors and reflects
Well that does sound smarter than the old way.... but $3 billion dollars and 31,000 acres of California land - means this is gonna be some expensive electricity - they could have had a decent nuclear plant instead and gotten cheap electricity.
2
posted on
08/15/2005 8:37:09 PM PDT
by
gondramB
To: gondramB
He estimated that it could cost roughly a quarter-billion dollars to construct and install every 50 megawatts of solar power -- but the pollution-free and renewable source pays for itself over time with little maintenance. To me, that's the most interesting question: how much are they going to have to shell out annually for maintenance and upkeep?
To: nickcarraway
That's $10714 per customer, assuming the $3 bil is the cost ceiling.
4
posted on
08/15/2005 8:43:40 PM PDT
by
thoughtomator
(Free Michael Graham!)
To: nickcarraway
>> a 7-square-mile solar farm in Southern California
I'm thinking there is some rare scorpion or other desert dwelling critter with a large stinger (that wants to get into your shorts) that will cause this project to fold faster than a house of cards in a hurricane.
Only illegals scampering over the boarder are allowed to destroy this rare earth, using this wasted real estate for any potential profit will be squished out before it ever gets past planning.
5
posted on
08/15/2005 8:46:53 PM PDT
by
mmercier
(it is going to take a lot of love to change the way things are)
To: nickcarraway
And capturing all that heat from the Sun will lower the temperature of Southern California which will cause a shift in wind patterns sucking clouds from the ocean across the area thus reducing the sunlight available to reach the dishes....
Is this the real reason Congress voted to extend daylight savings time?
6
posted on
08/15/2005 8:52:08 PM PDT
by
bayourod
(Winning elections is the only thing Those who glorify losing are unclear on the concept of democrac)
To: mmercier
I'm thinking there is some rare scorpion or other desert dwelling critter with a large stinger (that wants to get into your shorts) that will cause this project to fold faster than a house of cards in a hurricane. you called it (beat me to it, in fact)! Zero pollution or no, there is no way the envirowackos will let this thing be erected w/o hell to pay. It may get done, but you may as well add half a billion just to fight the fight those bastards will wage over it. The very idea of making MONEY off the sun! Well! Harumph, harumph!
7
posted on
08/15/2005 8:55:31 PM PDT
by
Migraine
To: snowsislander
>> To me, that's the most interesting question: how much are they going to have to shell out annually for maintenance and upkeep?<<
Well if there is no upkeep and the thing lasts 10 years that would work out to $57 per megawatt hour. Does anybody know if that is a fair price in California these days? I'm sure there will be upkeep and hopefully it will last longer than 10 years but that should at least be the right order of magnitude.
(250 000 000 / 50) / (365 * 24 * 10) = 57.0776256
8
posted on
08/15/2005 8:55:52 PM PDT
by
gondramB
To: nickcarraway
they should take the money and build a nuclear plant
9
posted on
08/15/2005 8:58:49 PM PDT
by
kellynla
(U.S.M.C. 1st Battalion,5th Marine Regiment, 1st Marine Div. Viet Nam 69&70 Semper Fi)
To: gondramB
I think one square mile is equal to 640 acres.So 7 square miles
should be 4480 acres.
All I could say is 'bout time. I just hope this isn't
a market "pump and dump" scheme where they highly
tout a product, then as soon as word gets out, and the stock
prices start to rise, or investment capital increases,
they dump the stock, or siphon off the investment capital
and the project goes belly up...
We'll see, but we need to get off of foreign oil...that would be
completely coool...This could be a great lesson to China,
and Europe, so they won't have to use as much foreign oil...
I am sure the loss of oil sales volume would severely depress
the price of oil.
10
posted on
08/15/2005 8:59:50 PM PDT
by
Getready
((...Fear not ...))
To: nickcarraway
Photo voltaic cells are still too expensive at around $10 a watt, to be used on a large scale. You'd have $1000 bucks in a panel to run a 100 watt bulb, in the daylight when you don't need it, not to mention all the ancillary equipment needed to make it work, storage batteries,regulators, charge controllers and such.
11
posted on
08/15/2005 9:00:14 PM PDT
by
Boiling point
(If God had not meant for man to eat animals, he wouldn't have made them out of meat!)
To: All
12
posted on
08/15/2005 9:05:00 PM PDT
by
bnelson44
(Proud parent of a tanker!)
To: Getready
>.I think one square mile is equal to 640 acres.So 7 square miles
should be 4480 acres. <<
You are right. I did (7 miles)^2 instead of 7 square miles.
Thanks for catching it.
13
posted on
08/15/2005 9:07:59 PM PDT
by
gondramB
To: kellynla
Here is an interesting coal versus nuke cost comparison - it says they both come in at about $30 per megawatt hour.
Part of the cost for the nuclear plant is $15-$20 million dollars a year for property taxes. I wonder what the property taxes will be on 7 square miles for their solar plant?
Coal vs Nuke cost comparison
14
posted on
08/15/2005 9:09:26 PM PDT
by
gondramB
To: gondramB
Electricity Price Indexes August 15, 2005 |
Figures represent weighted average price of electricity traded at the indicated hubs. All indexes quoted in dollars per megawatt hour; volumes in megawatt hours. |
|
|
DJ COB |
California-Oregon and Nevada-Oregon Borders |
|
Aug 15 |
Aug 14 |
Aug 13 |
Aug 12 |
Firm |
On Peak |
77.07 |
n.q. |
73.38 |
73.38 |
Volume |
5392 |
n.q. |
6720 |
6720 |
Off Peak |
63.96 |
n.q. |
53.43 |
53.43 |
Volume |
2456 |
n.q. |
3400 |
3400 |
Non Firm |
On Peak |
n.a. |
n.q. |
s58.70 |
s58.70 |
Volume |
n.a. |
n.q. |
0 |
0 |
Off Peak |
n.a. |
s57.56 |
s42.74 |
s42.74 |
Volume |
n.a. |
0 |
0 |
0 |
|
Explanatory Notes: |
Firm: Electricity that meets the minimum criteria of being Financially Firm and backed by liquidating damages. Non Firm: Electric energy subject to interruption at any time. On Peak: 16-hour period of heavy demand. Off Peak: Eight-hour period of light demand. r: Revised.n.q.: No quote. s:Surveyed data. n.a.: One-day lag for non-firm, not available for others. For questions and additional hubs from Dow Jones please call 609-520-4663. |
Explanatory Notes: Firm: Electricity that meets the minimum criteria of being Financially Firm and backed by liquidating damages. Non Firm: Electric energy subject to interruption at any time. On Peak: 16-hour period of heavy demand. Off Peak: Eight-hour period of light demand. r: Revised.n.q.: No quote. s:Surveyed data. n.a.: One-day lag for non-firm, not available for others. For questions and additional hubs from Dow Jones please call 609-520-4663.
15
posted on
08/15/2005 9:12:04 PM PDT
by
sefarkas
(why vote Democrat-lite???)
To: snowsislander
As I understand it, the 500 megawatt farm will consist of 20,000 hydrogen powered Sterling Engines driving 20,000 25 kw generators. Somehow, the output of these 20,000 generators will have to be controlled for voltage and phase balance in order to work together. This means that a computer system that will need perhaps 100,000 inputs, one hell of a software program, and 100,000 outputs. Then add in who knows how many switches, circuit breakers, and other electro-mechanical devices needed to get the power online and the statement ... the renewable source pays for itself over time with little maintenance... seems rather ridiculous.
To: nickcarraway
For the same $2-3billion, a Westinghouse AP1000 nuclear power plant will deliver twice as much power to the grid.
17
posted on
08/15/2005 9:16:12 PM PDT
by
sefarkas
(why vote Democrat-lite???)
To: nickcarraway
18
posted on
08/15/2005 9:22:46 PM PDT
by
Kevin OMalley
(No, not Freeper#95235, Freeper #1165: Charter member, What Was My Login Club.)
To: nickcarraway
Gee, that sounds bigger than the 5,000 acres they want to drill on in ANWAR.
19
posted on
08/15/2005 9:35:52 PM PDT
by
Eagles6
(Dig deeper, more ammo.)
To: sefarkas
"For the same $2-3billion, a Westinghouse AP1000 nuclear power plant will deliver twice as much power to the grid."
I wonder how many Nuclear power plants could fit on the same footprint as the solar plant?
20
posted on
08/15/2005 9:38:24 PM PDT
by
fallujah-nuker
(Atque ubi solitudinem faciunt, pacem appelant)
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