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How Intelligent Design Hurts Conservatives (By making us look like crackpots)
The New Republic ^ | 8/16/05 | Ross Douthat

Posted on 08/18/2005 5:17:34 PM PDT by curiosity

The appeal of "intelligent design" to the American right is obvious. For religious conservatives, the theory promises to uncover God's fingerprints on the building blocks of life. For conservative intellectuals in general, it offers hope that Darwinism will yet join Marxism and Freudianism in the dustbin of pseudoscience. And for politicians like George W. Bush, there's little to be lost in expressing a skepticism about evolution that's shared by millions.

In the long run, though, intelligent design will probably prove a political boon to liberals, and a poisoned chalice for conservatives. Like the evolution wars in the early part of the last century, the design debate offers liberals the opportunity to portray every scientific battle--today, stem-cell research, "therapeutic" cloning, and end-of-life issues; tomorrow, perhaps, large-scale genetic engineering--as a face-off between scientific rigor and religious fundamentalism. There's already a public perception, nurtured by the media and by scientists themselves, that conservatives oppose the "scientific" position on most bioethical issues. Once intelligent design runs out of steam, leaving its conservative defenders marooned in a dinner-theater version of Inherit the Wind, this liberal advantage is likely to swell considerably.

And intelligent design will run out of steam--a victim of its own grand ambitions. What began as a critique of Darwinian theory, pointing out aspects of biological life that modification-through-natural-selection has difficulty explaining, is now foolishly proposed as an alternative to Darwinism. On this front, intelligent design fails conspicuously--as even defenders like Rick Santorum are beginning to realize--because it can't offer a consistent, coherent, and testable story of how life developed. The "design inference" is a philosophical point, not a scientific theory: Even if the existence of a designer is a reasonable inference to draw from the complexity of, say, a bacterial flagellum, one would still need to explain how the flagellum moved from design to actuality.

And unless George W. Bush imposes intelligent design on American schools by fiat and orders the scientific establishment to recant its support for Darwin, intelligent design will eventually collapse--like other assaults on evolution that failed to offer an alternative--under the weight of its own overreaching.

If liberals play their cards right, this collapse could provide them with a powerful rhetorical bludgeon. Take the stem-cell debate, where the great questions are moral, not scientific--whether embryonic human life should be created and destroyed to prolong adult human life. Liberals might win that argument on the merits, but it's by no means a sure thing. The conservative embrace of intelligent design, however, reshapes the ideological battlefield. It helps liberals cast the debate as an argument about science, rather than morality, and paint their enemies as a collection of book-burning, Galileo-silencing fanatics.

This would be the liberal line of argument anyway, even without the controversy surrounding intelligent design. "The president is trapped between religion and science over stem cells," declared a Newsweek cover story last year; "Religion shouldn't undercut new science," the San Francisco Chronicle insisted; "Leadership in 'therapeutic cloning' has shifted abroad," the New York Times warned, because American scientists have been "hamstrung" by "religious opposition"--and so on and so forth. But liberalism's science-versus-religion rhetoric is only likely to grow more effective if conservatives continue to play into the stereotype by lining up to take potshots at Darwin.

Already, savvy liberal pundits are linking bioethics to the intelligent design debate. "In a world where Koreans are cloning dogs," Slate's Jacob Weisberg wrote last week, "can the U.S. afford--ethically or economically--to raise our children on fraudulent biology?" (Message: If you're for Darwin, you're automatically for unfettered cloning research.) Or again, this week's TNR makes the pretty-much-airtight "case against intelligent design"; last week, the magazine called opponents of embryo-destroying stem cell research "flat-earthers." The suggested parallel is obvious: "Science" is on the side of evolution and on the side of embryo-killing.

Maureen Dowd, in her inimitable way, summed up the liberal argument earlier this year:

Exploiting God for political ends has set off powerful, scary forces in America: a retreat on teaching evolution, most recently in Kansas; fights over sex education . . . a demonizing of gays; and a fear of stem cell research, which could lead to more of a "culture of life" than keeping one vegetative woman hooked up to a feeding tube.

Terri Schiavo, sex education, stem cell research--on any issue that remotely touches on science, a GOP that's obsessed with downing Darwin will be easily tagged as medieval, reactionary, theocratic. And this formula can be applied to every new bioethical dilemma that comes down the pike. Earlier this year, for instance, the National Academy of Sciences (NAS) issued ethical guidelines for research cloning, which blessed the creation of human-animal "chimeras"--animals seeded with human cells. New York Times reporter Nicholas Wade, writing on the guidelines, declared that popular repugnance at the idea of such creatures is based on "the pre-Darwinian notion that species are fixed and penalties [for cross-breeding] are severe." In other words, if you're opposed to creating pig-men--carefully, of course, with safeguards in place (the NAS guidelines suggested that chimeric animals be forbidden from mating)--you're probably stuck back in the pre-Darwinian ooze with Bishop Wilberforce and William Jennings Bryan.

There's an odd reversal-of-roles at work here. In the past, it was often the right that tried to draw societal implications from Darwinism, and the left that stood against them. And for understandable reasons: When people draw political conclusions from Darwin's theory, they're nearly always inegalitarian conclusions. Hence social Darwinism, hence scientific racism, hence eugenics.

Which is why however useful intelligent design may be as a rhetorical ploy, liberals eager to claim the mantle of science in the bioethics battle should beware. The left often thinks of modern science as a child of liberalism, but if anything, the reverse is true. And what scientific thought helped to forge--the belief that all human beings are equal--scientific thought can undermine as well. Conservatives may be wrong about evolution, but they aren't necessarily wrong about the dangers of using Darwin, or the National Academy of Sciences, as a guide to political and moral order.


TOPICS: Constitution/Conservatism; Government; Philosophy; Politics/Elections
KEYWORDS: creationism; crevolist; education; evolution; hesaidcrackhehheh; immaturetitle; intelligentdesign; politics; science
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To: Tribune7
If we teach that there is a design to life and the universe, and a reason for our existence beyond chance, and truth is real and findable, we will have smarter kids and better scientists.

Why lie to our children and say that we've demonstrated some "design to life" and that we know that there's a reason for our existence beond chance? How will lying to children in htis way make them smarter?
651 posted on 08/19/2005 12:51:28 PM PDT by Dimensio (http://angryflower.com/bobsqu.gif <-- required reading before you use your next apostrophe!)
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To: BibChr

OK I will find out about it. There is another film called Chaos (French) and I have heard it is excellent.

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0265116/


652 posted on 08/19/2005 12:58:52 PM PDT by eleni121 ('Thou hast conquered, O Galilean!' (Julian the Apostate))
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To: spunkets

Your version does NOT accurately translate what the original actually says.


653 posted on 08/19/2005 1:01:58 PM PDT by Just mythoughts
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To: Just mythoughts

So the Hebrew Bible I linked to and their translation is wrong?


654 posted on 08/19/2005 1:13:56 PM PDT by spunkets
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To: Dimensio
No Dimensio,

I have come to the conclusion that you are not really about any kind of dialog. That is one thing that can be drawn from your replies, no sincere desire for any kind of dialog. That is is what I laugh at.

Now we'll go back to that time you cut in on LifeOrGoods? and I tried to get you to answer some of the same questions you ask, but no you ran off again.

Hey Dimensio!! Don't run away again!! There are questions to be answered!

See.. remember LifeOrGoods?

He made a statement, and you converted that into an assumption that life is "working" according to a design and that he has not demonstrated this.

And so I asked Well what about you?

Are you assuming life is "working" yes/no?
Is life "working" according to a design yes/no?
What is your position?
What is your design?
What is your description of a design?
Does it 'look like' evolution? yes/no?

Interesting. You have made a demand that he demonstrate, but who shall it be to?

655 posted on 08/19/2005 1:15:44 PM PDT by mordo
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To: curiosity
The appeal of "intelligent design" to the American right is obvious.

I read that and stopped reading.

656 posted on 08/19/2005 1:17:58 PM PDT by Frapster (Don't mind me - I'm distracted by the pretty lights.)
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To: Dimensio; visually_augmented
visually_augmented wrote: Theories should be discussed and debated, of course, but we should never lose site that they are theories - not dogma...

Dimensio replied: Every explanation in science is theory, always subject to change. There is nothing in science greater than theory.

The only folks who seem to "lose site [sic] that they are theories - not dogma..." are the CS/ID folks.

They accuse evolutionists of teaching theories as if that is a negative. They refuse to learn how science works, even when corrected (as Dimensio does here), because then they would have less to argue against.

Can you say "straw man" boys and girls? I knew you could!

657 posted on 08/19/2005 1:35:19 PM PDT by Coyoteman (Is this a good tagline?)
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To: Dimensio

Dimensio: "There is nothing in science greater than theory."

Except maybe experimental evidence?? There are certain things that are observational and should be identified as fact. Certainly this is a part of science that many pure Darwinists have forgotten. Seems they have misrepresented the theory as experimental evidence.

I am not necessarily endorsing ID but certainly we need to be spending more time on the investigation of alternate theories since many of the essential elements of Macro evolution are still lacking. Most aspects of this theory are still inferred.

Some have condemned the ID folks saying they are against science. That the proponents of ID will just throw their hands up at some point and say "we're done, no more study required because we have the answer". This is hogwash since the very foundations of science came about by men who desired to better understand God's creation. Personally, I think a view of science that is God centered would tend to motivate us further since most all God-fearing individuals realize we can never completely understand God nor His creation completely. I expect that some scientists presume a day will come where study will end because they have discovered it all! The very fact that we cannot and will not "figure it all out" is probably evidence in itself there is a creator. The created can never surpass or equal the creator.

Much of science is observational and hence we don't necessarily need to reproduce an event to describe how it occured or the results. For example, just because we can't create a chromosome doesn't mean we cannot distinguish the different types. This is why I think both sides of this debate are scientific. Granted, both sides use deception and bad science along the way but that does not mean they are not valid approaches to scientifically examine the existence of life as we now know it.


658 posted on 08/19/2005 1:44:38 PM PDT by visually_augmented (I was blind, but now I see)
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To: visually_augmented
Except maybe experimental evidence??

Experimental evidence is used to build theory. Experimental evidence alone is nothing special, it's just an observation. You use combined exprimental evidence to create theories.

There are certain things that are observational and should be identified as fact.

"Objects fall to earth" is an observation. It is a fact that objects fall to earth. It is not a fact that objects will always fall to earth. The explanation for why objects fall to earth and why we should assume that it will be the case that objects within proximity to earth will fall to it is theory. Theories are built upon facts, but anything that can be called "fact" is too simplistic to have any broad meaning in itself.
659 posted on 08/19/2005 1:48:28 PM PDT by Dimensio (http://angryflower.com/bobsqu.gif <-- required reading before you use your next apostrophe!)
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To: doodlelady
In the same way a little Christmas tree light has the whole power of the Hoover Dam behind it.

Care to flesh this out a little more? Expound upon this profundity?

Or is it more 'best of the best' contributions and stupid irrational mordo cant get it.., yeah thats the ticket.
660 posted on 08/19/2005 1:52:58 PM PDT by mordo
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To: GSHastings
The Koran certainly "coopts" lots of stuff. In fact, it is believed by researchers in the West that it began as a manual for use by Christian missionaries to use in Mecca to bring Arabs to Jesus.

That has nothing whatsoever to do with what we find in Jonah, and in this case it's the Bible that is reflecting a far older story otherwise found only in the most ancient of Hindu texts, and as background for Buddhism.

661 posted on 08/19/2005 1:57:18 PM PDT by muawiyah (/ hey coach do I gotta' put in that "/sarcasm " thing again?)
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To: Zechariah11

I have not defamed Christ.

But you are saying that his most severe criticism was for among others, those who would teach evolution and that said teaching undermines the teachings of Christ.

I think that is the crux of the matter and on that score we will have to agree to disagree. And to bar teaching of a scientific theory because it is at odds with Christ's teachings, is just plain wrong.


662 posted on 08/19/2005 2:17:45 PM PDT by cajungirl (no)
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To: syriacus

You are assuming that the title of the thread is an organized activity of those who are "evolutionists". I don't think "evolutionists" are the issue. The issue is religious ideas being taught as science


663 posted on 08/19/2005 2:19:39 PM PDT by cajungirl (no)
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To: CasearianDaoist

I think your rudeness and tantrum throwing is unequaled. And bullying.


664 posted on 08/19/2005 2:23:02 PM PDT by cajungirl (no)
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To: spunkets

I use the Companion Bible, KJV. Appendix 7 explains

"The Revisers ill-advisedly decided that "all such words, now printed in italics, as are plainly implied in the Hebrew, and necessarily in Egnlish be printed in common type.

One of the consequences of this decision is that the verb "to be" is not distinguished from the verb "to become", so that the lessons conveyed by the A.V. "was" and "was" (in italics) in Gen. l:2; 3 and 4; 9 and 10; 11 and 12, are lost.

There is more on the subject in Appendix 48 - The Use of Various Types in the English Bible.


665 posted on 08/19/2005 2:39:57 PM PDT by Just mythoughts
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To: doodlelady

Hey, if religion is prohibited in some activity my tax dollars are paying for, I say get rid of that activity.


666 posted on 08/19/2005 2:40:07 PM PDT by muawiyah (/ hey coach do I gotta' put in that "/sarcasm " thing again?)
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To: cajungirl
Your statement
And how do you know what Jesus thinks of evolution? You got some kind of pipeline?

Well why don't you read his words and then you tell us yourself?
667 posted on 08/19/2005 2:43:55 PM PDT by mordo
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To: cajungirl
You are assuming that the title of the thread is an organized activity of those who are "evolutionists"

The title could be written by anyone who implies that IDers are crackpots.

668 posted on 08/19/2005 2:52:55 PM PDT by syriacus (You are shouting so loudly that I can't "hear" you.)
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To: mordo

Actually if those words are read, I do believe they are two centuries old, long before our current debate.


669 posted on 08/19/2005 3:04:37 PM PDT by cajungirl (no)
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To: syriacus

Could be written by a democrat.


670 posted on 08/19/2005 3:05:37 PM PDT by cajungirl (no)
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To: cajungirl

I guess your very rude reply was the answer...sorry to hear that you think of the Bible as only another book


671 posted on 08/19/2005 3:16:37 PM PDT by apackof2 (In my simple way, I guess you could say I'm living in the BIG TIME)
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To: Dimensio
If so, what kind of consequences would there be following the cessation of consciousness?

I guess you'll find out

672 posted on 08/19/2005 3:17:59 PM PDT by apackof2 (In my simple way, I guess you could say I'm living in the BIG TIME)
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To: BMCDA
Now is the death of these people the father's fault (who could have made some more changes to his son's design) or is it the fault of the son?

The answer is obvious. If the father controlled the kids destiny by construction, the father is at fault. Next.

673 posted on 08/19/2005 3:18:05 PM PDT by WildTurkey (When will CBS Retract and Apologize?)
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To: visually_augmented
Fundamentally, evolution relies on the hypothesis that all life forms (or certainly most life forms) trend to higher complexity.

Did you make that up?

674 posted on 08/19/2005 3:18:54 PM PDT by WildTurkey (When will CBS Retract and Apologize?)
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To: spunkets
Folks choose their own destiny.

How can one choose their own destiny when it has been decided before they were born? Does not compute.

675 posted on 08/19/2005 3:20:37 PM PDT by WildTurkey (When will CBS Retract and Apologize?)
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To: curiosity
Nonsense. That God always knows what I do does not imply that God planned it.

Oh, sort of like evolution. God did not plan every detail, he just set it into motion. Thank you for your support on this issue.

676 posted on 08/19/2005 3:22:13 PM PDT by WildTurkey (When will CBS Retract and Apologize?)
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To: Jorge
Having foreknowledge of the future doesn't make God responsible for everybody's actions.

When you construct something with the knowledge that it will do evil, you are responsible. God created man knowing he would do evil; he is responsible.

677 posted on 08/19/2005 3:24:33 PM PDT by WildTurkey (When will CBS Retract and Apologize?)
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To: kidkosmic1

I don't understand. I was told on another thread that all the innocent babies that died in the tsunami would go to heaven because God knew that if they had lived they would have been saved so they just took a shortcut since God knew what they would do had they lived. Didn't God know they would die?


678 posted on 08/19/2005 3:27:10 PM PDT by WildTurkey (When will CBS Retract and Apologize?)
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The festival of ignorance continues.


679 posted on 08/19/2005 3:49:59 PM PDT by balrog666 (A myth by any other name is still inane.)
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To: WildTurkey
"How can one choose their own destiny when it has been decided before they were born? Does not compute."

What's been decided? Free will requires that the individual make the choices, not anyone else. The individual can't make the choices before he exists.

680 posted on 08/19/2005 4:01:42 PM PDT by spunkets
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To: spunkets
What's been decided? Free will requires that the individual make the choices, not anyone else. The individual can't make the choices before he exists.

That's right. The individual can't make the choices since it was already decided what he would do BEFORE he was born.

681 posted on 08/19/2005 4:05:10 PM PDT by WildTurkey (When will CBS Retract and Apologize?)
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To: spunkets

You only THINK you are making choices. Actually, God decided those 'choices' for you BEFORE you were born.


682 posted on 08/19/2005 4:05:50 PM PDT by WildTurkey (When will CBS Retract and Apologize?)
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To: cajungirl
I have done neither, and you know it. Her position is absurd on the face of it.

You are merely taking sides based on gender, not on any other "principle." Your retort is as childish and it is off point.

I have asked for cogent discussion from "doodle" and have not gotten it. Instead I received what can only be described as willful obtuseness interspersed with ill conceived gobbledygook, and this gobbledygook she has used to literally heckle people on this thread. She in no way meaningfully response to post directed at her.

In any event, it is none of your business.

If you have a substantive point, please make it. Otherwise spare me your "refereeing." It is completely uncalled for and out of line. She is big girl.

Honestly. Talk about rude.

As for you personal opinion of me, I could really care less.

683 posted on 08/19/2005 4:06:05 PM PDT by CasearianDaoist
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To: WildTurkey
You only THINK you are making choices. Actually, God decided those 'choices' for you BEFORE you were born.

It's a bit worse than that. For an omniscient being, all of time is visible at once. There is no before and after. Existence is created at once, including its past, present and future.

684 posted on 08/19/2005 4:09:36 PM PDT by js1138 (Science has it all: the fun of being still, paying attention, writing down numbers...)
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To: WildTurkey
When you construct something with the knowledge that it will do evil, you are responsible. God created man knowing he would do evil; he is responsible.

'Now WildTurkey' 'mordo scratching head like the detective cop' Uuhhh Okay oh Uhhh okay now..
Now WildTurkey. Man is a being, not a thing. Things are not evil or do evil by themselves. God is not a man.

Now back to your statement there Now WildTurkey, Uuhhh Okay oh Uhhh okay now.. WildTurkey is this more of the vast intelligentsia contributions presented here by the 'best of the best' ? and stupid irrational ignorant mordo cant get it.., yeah thats the ticket.
685 posted on 08/19/2005 4:16:14 PM PDT by mordo
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To: curiosity; wallcrawlr
and paint their enemies as a collection of book-burning, Galileo-silencing fanatics.

Sounds a lot like the evo crowd here.

686 posted on 08/19/2005 4:18:04 PM PDT by AndrewC (Darwinian logic -- It is just-so if it is just-so)
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To: WildTurkey
"You only THINK you are making choices. Actually, God decided those 'choices' for you BEFORE you were born."

You're refering to Calvinism, which is completely wrong. It's a perversion that contradicts what God said in a major, fundamental way. There's no point to anything, especially teaching if you're responsible for nothing anyway. It's a story of puppets and a demented tyrant.

687 posted on 08/19/2005 4:20:55 PM PDT by spunkets
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To: cajungirl
Actually if those words are read, I do believe they are two centuries old, long before our current debate.

Uuhhh Okay oh Uhhh okay now.. Ohh okay,
Now your going to switch it around a little here. First your referred to the words by his name. And now those words if read, are two centuries old, long before our current debate.

Uuhhh Okay oh Uhhh okay now.. Well oh great cajungirl, what do we do now? Our Science, all the words more than 200 years ago.., what do we do with those words? Is it that it started from nothing 200 years ago?
Uuhhh Okay oh Uhhh okay now.. Ohh okay,

LMAO!!! HA HA HA HA HA please stop cajun girl!! OMG your'r killin me babe!
688 posted on 08/19/2005 4:21:00 PM PDT by mordo
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To: spunkets

I think you are denying the obvious.


689 posted on 08/19/2005 4:32:19 PM PDT by WildTurkey (When will CBS Retract and Apologize?)
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To: WildTurkey
Which, of course, would mean the mustard plant is more highly evolved than human beings inasmuch as it has more genes, and more highly complex genes, than human beings.

You have to go back and re-address what you mean by "evolution" ~ it's merely change, not progression toward more complexity.

690 posted on 08/19/2005 4:36:57 PM PDT by muawiyah (/ hey coach do I gotta' put in that "/sarcasm " thing again?)
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To: AndrewC

Church group burns Harry Potter books, Shania Twain CDs

Town shrugs at event that brought it infamy
August 6, 2003






BY TAMARA AUDI
FREE PRESS STAFF WRITER




Until this weekend, the small western Michigan town of Greenville had gained modest fame as home to the annual Danish Festival, the first Meijer Thrifty Acres and the world's largest refrigerator factory.

And, as far as anyone knew, it had nothing against the fictional British wizard Harry Potter or the Coneheads.

Which is why, when members of the town's Jesus Non-denominational Church gathered Sunday to burn an eclectic collection of books, CDs and videos, the people of Greenville seemed perplexed.

"What kind of an image are they setting in the community?" asked the Rev. Mark Shaw, senior pastor at Calvary Baptist, another local church. He dismissed the burning as a misguided publicity stunt.

Misguided, perhaps, but effective. The story shot across wire services and the Internet and by Monday afternoon, the friendly town whose Web site touts its summertime performances of the play "Thumbelina," was suddenly infamous for hosting an old-fashioned book-burning.

Disparate items were tossed into the Sunday bonfire: Harry Potter burned alongside copies of the Shania Twain album, "The Woman in Me." A copy of the Dan Aykroyd movie "Coneheads" was thrown into the flames with the Book of Mormon.

The items were connected by a line that only participants could see. None of the books, music or movies promoted God, church members said.

About 50 congregants gathered for the burning. A few said the fire was divinely inspired.

"This was definitely by the Holy Spirit," said Bonnie Conran, a church member.

The church's bishop, the Rev. T.D. Turner Sr., said in a news release that the congregation "will burn Harry Potter books and other witchcraft items to let the world know that there are true followers of Jesus Christ who will not call evil good.

"We at Jesus Non-denominational Church refuse to allow Satan to take the minds of our children," Turner said. "We will do all that is in us to stand and hold up a standard of righteousness and we will win."

"It's important for children to know that Harry Potter is witchcraft," Jill Turner, the bishop's wife, told the Daily News. "It really afflicts their minds."

The church is far from the first to burn copies of Harry Potter. The book has been burned for years by fundamentalist Christian groups.

In 2001, a church in New Mexico burned copies of the book along with Eminem CDs and copies of the movie "Snow White." The same year, a church in suburban Pittsburgh burned Potter books, too.

The burnings often sparked counter-protests from Potter fans and civil rights advocates.

Greenville took a more live-and-let-live approach.

"They can buy books and burn them as long as they choose to burn their own books," said Tara Conaway, director of the Flat River Community Library. "I won't tell them what to read as long as they don't tell me what to read."

The library, which serves Greenville, has copies of the Harry Potter series.

The Rev. Terry Jones, senior pastor of First Congregational Church of Greenville, agreed that members of the Jesus Non-denominational Church have the right to burn books. But he said the Bible has stood the test of time and "can stand on its own."

"We ought not be afraid of any other books or movies or anything of that nature," Jones said. "Harry Potter won't destroy the gospel."

Now, back to Greenville's regularly scheduled programming: The first chess club meet of the year is Aug. 28.




Contact TAMARA AUDI at 313-222-6582 or audi@freepress.com. The Associated Press contributed to this report.


691 posted on 08/19/2005 4:44:22 PM PDT by WildTurkey (When will CBS Retract and Apologize?)
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To: WildTurkey
"I think you are denying the obvious."

You seem to think Calvin's God of predestination is the same as Jesus. He is not. Your statement regarding denying the obvious is based on zilch.

692 posted on 08/19/2005 4:47:25 PM PDT by spunkets
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To: WildTurkey
You are on cue.
693 posted on 08/19/2005 4:49:14 PM PDT by AndrewC (Darwinian logic -- It is just-so if it is just-so)
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To: spunkets

Are you saying God does not know what you will be doing tomorrow?


694 posted on 08/19/2005 4:49:53 PM PDT by WildTurkey (When will CBS Retract and Apologize?)
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To: curiosity

In other words, if we all become athiests, we will be "accepted" by the Left and they won't call us ignorant rubes anymore.


695 posted on 08/19/2005 4:52:20 PM PDT by BnBlFlag (Deo Vindice/Semper Fidelis)
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To: curiosity

YEC INTREP


696 posted on 08/19/2005 5:02:49 PM PDT by LiteKeeper (The radical secularization of America is happening)
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To: WildTurkey
"Are you saying God does not know what you will be doing tomorrow?"

Knowing what will happen is not the same as causing it. The individual's decisions made of Free will are the cause. God does not interfere, else there's no Free will.

697 posted on 08/19/2005 5:09:03 PM PDT by spunkets
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To: muawiyah
In fact, it is believed by researchers in the West that it began as a manual for use by Christian missionaries to use in Mecca to bring Arabs to Jesus.

Well of course! That explains it!

Christians really ARE the source of every evil in the world!

698 posted on 08/19/2005 5:09:32 PM PDT by GSHastings
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To: Sloth
Yes, but I would argue that archeology and anthropology are not really "sciences." They are really in the Humanities.

Archeology, a field that I have immense respect for, strikes me as a sort of "applied historical study" which is richly informed by Science, and in general, the "hard sciences."

Anthropology, a field that I have some real problems with almost seems to me to be a form of literature, a form of literary conjecture, or perhaps a "preliterate philology" of illiterate cultures (an awkward phrase and concept, I know.) One could say that is is a "Social Science" which is, of course, to say that it is not a science at all, at least from my point of view.

I have a lot of trouble with anthropology, but occasionally these people put out some interesting stuff. I am just not sure that we need a "science" called "anthropology to get these writings.

699 posted on 08/19/2005 5:14:32 PM PDT by CasearianDaoist
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To: longshadow

700


700 posted on 08/19/2005 5:16:50 PM PDT by PatrickHenry (Felix, qui potuit rerum cognoscere causas. The List-O-Links is at my homepage.)
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