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Panel on Prison Rape Hears Victims' Chilling Accounts
NY Times ^ | August 20, 2005 | CAROLYN MARSHALL

Posted on 08/20/2005 11:18:38 AM PDT by neverdem

SAN FRANCISCO, Aug. 19 - T. J. Parsell was a lanky pimple-faced adolescent bent on mischief. So when he found a toy gun one evening in 1978 while wandering home from a high school party, he thought nothing of pointing it at a store clerk and grumbling, "Your money or your life."

He got $50 for what he now calls "a stupid impulsive prank." The incident landed the 17-year-old Parsell in an adult jail, where on his first night, an older inmate spiked his drink with Thorazine and sexually abused and raped him.

"While my friends prepared for our high school prom, I was being gang raped," Mr. Parsell testified on Friday to a Congressional commission investigating prison sexual abuse and rape.

Mr. Parsell, now 45, and a successful software executive who lives on Long Island, was one of six victims of prison rape to relate disturbing accounts with a bipartisan panel of The National Prison Rape Elimination Commission here.

"What they took from me went beyond sex," Mr. Parsell said. "They'd stolen my manhood, my identity and part of my soul."

The panel, which also heard from state and federal legislators, law enforcement and prison officials and mental health experts, has been investigating the prevalence, cause and possible solutions to a problem that many experts say has escalated as the prison system is collapsing. Overcrowding, staff shortages and budget cuts have contributed to an often taboo topic.

"As a society, we have an obligation to protect the people we lock up, even though they have harmed society," the commission chairman, Judge Reggie B. Walton of Federal District Court in Washington, said. "Some people say inmates get what they deserve. But they don't think about the overall impact on society."

(Excerpt) Read more at nytimes.com ...


TOPICS: Crime/Corruption; Culture/Society; Extended News; Front Page News; Government; News/Current Events; US: California; US: District of Columbia
KEYWORDS: barbaralee; bush; georgewbush; lee; prisoners; prisonrape; prisons; rape; sexcrimes
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...within a prison population that exceeds 2.1 million.

That's about the total number of folks on active duty and in the reserve components of the U.S. Armed Forces.

1 posted on 08/20/2005 11:18:41 AM PDT by neverdem
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To: neverdem
>>T. J. Parsell was a lanky pimple-faced adolescent bent on mischief. So when he found a toy gun one evening in 1978 while wandering home from a high school party, he thought nothing of pointing it at a store clerk and grumbling, "Your money or your life." <<

Hahahaha. . .what a jokster. Just a little harmless fun. . .bad thing that happened to him, but his own actions put him there.
2 posted on 08/20/2005 11:21:33 AM PDT by Gunrunner2
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To: neverdem

That's about the total number of folks on active duty and in the reserve components of the U.S. Armed Forces.

That's just under 1% of the population.

Many are in jail for non-violent drug offenses. Their only crime? Using an intoxicating substance other than alcohol or tobacco.


3 posted on 08/20/2005 11:23:24 AM PDT by adam_az (It's the border, stupid!)
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To: Gunrunner2

" Hahahaha. . .what a jokster. Just a little harmless fun. . .bad thing that happened to him, but his own actions put him there."

Ha ha, what a sensitive soul you are.

He was sentenced to jail, not to rape.


4 posted on 08/20/2005 11:24:01 AM PDT by adam_az (It's the border, stupid!)
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To: Gunrunner2

What he did was wrong, but nobody deserves to be raped in prison except child rapist themselves.


5 posted on 08/20/2005 11:24:13 AM PDT by processing please hold (Islam and Christianity do not mix ----9-11 taught us that)
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To: neverdem
Simple solution:

Rape someone in prison?

Cut off your tool and castrate.

6 posted on 08/20/2005 11:24:19 AM PDT by Popman (In politics, ideas are more important than individuals.)
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To: neverdem

I don't know why we don't go back to prisons that isolate the prisoners from one another. The great social experiment with rehabilitative has ultimately failed. All we've done is created a system of Criminal Universities across the United States, where small time crooks get sent to learn how to pull big time crimes, and network. The situation also practically lends itself to power games like "rape the newbie".


7 posted on 08/20/2005 11:24:31 AM PDT by coconutt2000 (NO MORE PEACE FOR OIL!!! DOWN WITH TYRANTS, TERRORISTS, AND TIMIDCRATS!!!! (3-T's For World Peace))
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To: coconutt2000

"I don't know why we don't go back to prisons that isolate the prisoners from one another."

Do you realize how much taxpayer money that would cost?


8 posted on 08/20/2005 11:27:58 AM PDT by sabe@q.com (Yes, I'm a SW freak!)
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To: neverdem

9 posted on 08/20/2005 11:28:29 AM PDT by jimbo123
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To: coconutt2000
I kinda like the idea of giving prisoners a choice.

"You can choose to move to Mexico as a free man, or you can spend the next 25 in jail. Your choice."

Ya know... kinda what the Mexicans do to us.

10 posted on 08/20/2005 11:28:29 AM PDT by PokeyJoe (There are 10 kinds of people in the world. Those who understand binary, and those that don't.)
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To: Gunrunner2

Those comments and attitude will go great on the liberals' posters to show how stupid conservatives are.


11 posted on 08/20/2005 11:28:33 AM PDT by jammer
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To: Gunrunner2

I bet Bwarney Fwranks, is yearning to be on that panel.


12 posted on 08/20/2005 11:30:35 AM PDT by skinkinthegrass (Just because you're paranoid, doesn't mean they aren't out to get you :^)
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To: PokeyJoe

With our borders ? like they wouldn't be back from mexico in about 10 minutes...


13 posted on 08/20/2005 11:32:47 AM PDT by stylin19a (In golf, some are long, I'm "Lama Long")
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To: adam_az
The "Ha" was along the lines of the article writer that made the deed that landed him in prison a simple joke, something on a lark. Yup, according to the article, threatening to kill someone while robbing is just a prank that can be laughed and winked at.

Get a grip.

Bad things happened to him but let's not lose sight that he did a terrible thing, got caught and deserved prison for what he had done.

I'd be very interested in seeing the rest of his rap sheet (rape perhaps? other robberies? what?). . .as the reporter implies he was into mischief all the time. . .and that means "trouble."
14 posted on 08/20/2005 11:33:09 AM PDT by Gunrunner2
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To: Gunrunner2

It's far from a joke to get repeatedly raped in prison. There are some prisoners I would wish it on but not very many


15 posted on 08/20/2005 11:33:51 AM PDT by dennisw (Muhammad was a successful Hitler. Hitler killed too many people too fast - L. Auster)
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To: pbrown

And how do we know he wasn't one of those?

He was into "mischief," and if the reporter characterizes robbery with a gun (real or not) and the threat to kill someone a prank, then I have real questions as to his past criminal activities.


16 posted on 08/20/2005 11:34:38 AM PDT by Gunrunner2
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To: Gunrunner2

>Hahahaha. . .what a jokster. Just a little harmless fun. . >.bad thing that happened to him, but his own actions put him >there

I agree with you but no one deserves rape as a punishment. Thats what those bastards in Pakistan do to women who "dishonor the family."
As far as I am concerned rape is worse than death. Its the deliberate attempt to rob a person of their soul.
We need to do whatever possible to eliminate prison rape. My suggestion: Prison Work Camps with Hard Labor. They will be too busy and tired to rape.


17 posted on 08/20/2005 11:35:11 AM PDT by rasblue (What would Barry Goldwater do?)
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To: neverdem

How sorry are we supposed to feel for felons who get raped in prison? I'm asking seriously. On a scale of 1 (yawn) to 10 (the sky is falling!), how much are we supposed to care?


18 posted on 08/20/2005 11:35:18 AM PDT by IronJack
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To: neverdem
"What they took from me went beyond sex," Mr. Parsell said. "They'd stolen my manhood, my identity and part of my soul."This stealing of manhood, identity and soul is exactly why the gays want access to our children in our schools, our churches, the boy scouts, our boot camps and other places. It's how they "recruit" new gays. Tolerance of the intolerable is exactly what they want.
19 posted on 08/20/2005 11:35:53 AM PDT by fella (In law nothing is certain but the expense. - S. Butler)
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To: jammer

And yours to show the liberals how they have an ally in you. . being soft on crime and all.


20 posted on 08/20/2005 11:36:10 AM PDT by Gunrunner2
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To: IronJack

Can we send the BTK guy to that jail?


21 posted on 08/20/2005 11:36:55 AM PDT by Luke21
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To: dennisw

Post 14


22 posted on 08/20/2005 11:37:04 AM PDT by Gunrunner2
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To: rasblue

Post 14


23 posted on 08/20/2005 11:37:54 AM PDT by Gunrunner2
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To: neverdem

Cracking down on prison rape is a far cry from coddling prisoners. No man deserves to suffer that indignity, and it is cruel to suggest otherwise.


24 posted on 08/20/2005 11:38:24 AM PDT by Loyalist (Raphel mai amech zabi almi.)
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To: neverdem

He was obviously let out of prison too soon. He wasn't rehabilitated since he still refuses to take responsibility for his criminal acts. When he shows some remorse, I'll show some sympathy.


25 posted on 08/20/2005 11:38:55 AM PDT by PAR35
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To: adam_az
He was sentenced to jail, not to rape.

I'm amazed at this attitude that says "whatever happens to you in prison, you deserve it because you committed the action that put you there."

If the sentence is rape, they ought to be raped and have done with it. But don't add incarceration as an additional punishment.

26 posted on 08/20/2005 11:39:47 AM PDT by Mr Ramsbotham (Laws against sodomy are honored in the breech.)
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To: Gunrunner2
Nope. I'm not soft on crime--what a crazy inference you drew. To think that people should not be raped in prison is not thought by mature, half-way intelligent adults to be "soft on crime."

Look. You made a brash, ill-considered comment. We all do. Why don't you just drop it or acknowledge it?

27 posted on 08/20/2005 11:41:33 AM PDT by jammer
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To: IronJack
How sorry are we supposed to feel for felons who get raped in prison? I'm asking seriously. On a scale of 1 (yawn) to 10 (the sky is falling!), how much are we supposed to care?

Well, consider this: you're only one false accusation away from jail and rape. Not a pleasant prospect.

28 posted on 08/20/2005 11:42:16 AM PDT by Mr Ramsbotham (Laws against sodomy are honored in the breech.)
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To: neverdem

people know what happens in prison
the moral of the story is stay out of it


29 posted on 08/20/2005 11:42:32 AM PDT by JohnLongIsland
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To: Gunrunner2

Because he didn't go to prison for child rape that's how. He was sent for a hold up.


30 posted on 08/20/2005 11:42:36 AM PDT by processing please hold (Islam and Christianity do not mix ----9-11 taught us that)
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To: neverdem

There is some insidiousness to this. Felons go off to prison and learn about man on man sex. Some learn they like it. They get released and return to wives or girlfriends but continue to have sex "on the down low" and start spreading nasty STDs in the community.


31 posted on 08/20/2005 11:43:46 AM PDT by Oystir
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To: jammer
>>Nope. I'm not soft on crime--what a crazy inference you drew.<<

Post 14.

Obviously you missed it.

Clearly wasn't laughing at the rape, but the reporters characterization of the original crime.

You obviously misread with a biased mind, we all do sometimes. Just admit it.
32 posted on 08/20/2005 11:43:54 AM PDT by Gunrunner2
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To: Gunrunner2
Hahahaha. . .what a jokster. Just a little harmless fun. . .bad thing that happened to him, but his own actions put him there.

I agree, his actions put him there. Yet unless I am mistaken, "forcible rape by a homosexual prisoner" was not part of his sentence. It is not just, and people need to stop overlooking it. They have broken the law and deserve punishment, but prisoners are also deserving of dignity as people made in the image of God.

33 posted on 08/20/2005 11:44:04 AM PDT by Zack Nguyen
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To: adam_az

Agreed. This is horrible, especially for those who have not committed a violent crime and hurt another person.


34 posted on 08/20/2005 11:44:14 AM PDT by doug from upland (The Hillary documentary is coming -- INDICTING HILLARY)
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To: IronJack
How sorry are we supposed to feel for felons who get raped in prison? I'm asking seriously. On a scale of 1 (yawn) to 10 (the sky is falling!), how much are we supposed to care?

You'll care when they are released upon the community. They went in for paper-hanging. They came out angry and vengeful.

35 posted on 08/20/2005 11:44:52 AM PDT by processing please hold (Islam and Christianity do not mix ----9-11 taught us that)
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To: neverdem

His rightful punishment could have taken the form of the store owner pumping him full of buckshot. He's damn luck to be alive. Call me insensitive.


36 posted on 08/20/2005 11:45:20 AM PDT by manic4organic (We won. Get over it.)
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To: pbrown

How do we know.

Juvenile records are sealed.

Point is, we don't know what his criminal history is.


37 posted on 08/20/2005 11:45:26 AM PDT by Gunrunner2
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To: IronJack
How sorry are we supposed to feel for felons who get raped in prison? I'm asking seriously. On a scale of 1 (yawn) to 10 (the sky is falling!), how much are we supposed to care?

I think we should care a great deal. Prisoners should have to serve their sentence, not worry that they are going to die, be raped or catch an STD while behind bars. It robs them of their dignity.

38 posted on 08/20/2005 11:46:14 AM PDT by Zack Nguyen
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To: Gunrunner2

I won't admit something that isn't true: you dismissed the point of the story with the statement that the person raped had done something wrong--and the strong implication was that he deserved it. Others also think you said that. Don't weasel now.


39 posted on 08/20/2005 11:46:20 AM PDT by jammer
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To: Gunrunner2

Is that your rationale? Good Lord.


40 posted on 08/20/2005 11:47:44 AM PDT by processing please hold (Islam and Christianity do not mix ----9-11 taught us that)
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To: Zack Nguyen

Funny how the liberals care more about the dignity of prisoners than the dignity of their victims.


41 posted on 08/20/2005 11:48:04 AM PDT by jimbo123
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To: neverdem

I wonder how many of the posters cheering for or neutral on prison rape would consider the act an intolerable mortal sin if both parties were willing participants?


42 posted on 08/20/2005 11:49:50 AM PDT by Turbopilot (Nothing in the above post is or should be construed as legal research, analysis, or advice.)
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To: adam_az
Many are in jail for nonviolent drug offenses. Their only crime? Using an intoxicating substance other than alcohol or tobacco.

To do this, you must engage in criminal behavior to obtain drugs,
Consort with known criminals (pushers)
Often engage in criminal behavior to obtain money for drugs
Unless you are independently rich.
43 posted on 08/20/2005 11:50:53 AM PDT by HangnJudge
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To: Turbopilot

Great question. Sobering that you had to ask, but it's effective.


44 posted on 08/20/2005 11:53:07 AM PDT by jammer
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To: neverdem

17 percent of all inmates in federal prisons are illegal immigrants and that doesn't even include state and local jails. You want to reduce prison overcrowding, there is you answer.


45 posted on 08/20/2005 11:54:49 AM PDT by TheForceOfOne (The alternative media is our Enigma machine.)
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To: Gunrunner2

If you run an FBI fingerprint check, juvenile records are available.


46 posted on 08/20/2005 11:54:59 AM PDT by sabe@q.com (Yes, I'm a SW freak!)
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To: IronJack
On a scale of 1 (yawn) to 10 (the sky is falling!), how much are we supposed to care?

Well, if you give a 0.5 to Scott Peterson or Natalee Holloway or Michael Jackson, i.e., watched one minute of coverage of any of it, I'd say about an 8.0.

47 posted on 08/20/2005 11:55:41 AM PDT by jammer
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To: Gunrunner2

If Rush Limbaugh goes to prison for drug abuse, does he deserve to be raped?


48 posted on 08/20/2005 11:58:27 AM PDT by stinkerpot65
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To: jammer
Went after the "reporters" bias that he was in effect an innocent man, just a harmless prankster and not the serious criminal that he was. Armed robbery is serious, or didn't you know. The reporter put the emotional hype in the article and I objected. Said what had happened to the bad guy was bad. The whole situation needed to be put in context--the bad guy was a bad guy, not some innocent prankster. "Strong implication". . .only for those that read fast and emote, not think.

Bye-bye, got things to do.
49 posted on 08/20/2005 11:58:28 AM PDT by Gunrunner2
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To: jammer
Great question. Sobering that you had to ask, but it's effective.

It was, wasn't it...

Who was that man that murdered all those nurses in the 60's I believe? That video that came out when he died showed him with breast and partying with drugs and alcohol...while in prison. I wonder how many were outraged that that had happened while he was locked up. He bragged that he had more fun in prison than out.

50 posted on 08/20/2005 11:59:02 AM PDT by processing please hold (Islam and Christianity do not mix ----9-11 taught us that)
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