Skip to comments.Never, Ever Leave home without It.
Posted on 08/21/2005 6:02:36 AM PDT by CholeraJoe
"Never, ever leave home without it." No, not your American Express card, your sidearm.
This morning, I woke up about 4:15 and was hungry, so I decided to drive to the local 24-hour beanery. The only other customers were a table of 10, intoxicated 20-somethings making alot of noise.
There were 7 muscular young men and three loud-mouthed young women. After listening to their raucous laughter for 10 minutes, I politely asked the waitress to ask them to hold down the noise. All I wanted to do was eat my breakfast in relative peace.
Her request for quiet lasted about 45 seconds, then the noise and laughter resumed. At that point, I decided to do something.
Bear in mind that I am not an imposing figure. I'm 5'9", mid 50's, and slim. I walked over to the table, and walked completely around it twice. I said, "I'd like y'all to hold down the noise for a while, please." One of the young men started to give me trash-talk but within seconds was elbowed by the guy next to him, who whispered something in his ear. Then everyone at the table said, "Yes, sir, or OK."
What made the difference? Open carry. I was wearing a 9mm semi-auto on my right hip. I never touched it and I made no threats, but it was nevertheless visible.
Keep it up and someday you will meet someone who is more stupid than you are, and you can spend the rest of your life either justifying how you shot that stupid punk, or wondering at how fast he was able to pin your arm so you could not get it out, and then marvelling at how he beat the living sh!t out of you.
The funny thing about gasoline, is that it often lights up with just a spark, when you don't want it to. It's not the bullet that lights it up, but if that bullet has a metal jacket, like a hornady 45 xtp hollow point, the spark it makes bouncing off the concrete will.
If this were a CCW situation I would agree with you. We should never show a firearm to impose our will on another. However, this was not a CCW. It was open carry, a permissible act in many states.
What happened here was simply a person asking for civil behavior from another. Perfectly legal and needed far more today IMO.
Choosing to carry openly is not a reason to give up standards or the ability to ask for civil behavior.
But you weren't looking for trouble...yeah...right. And that circling the table twice, that wasn't so that they could all get a glimpse of your bad-assed little piece right? Uh-huh...sure. The more comments I read, and the more I think about it, the more I realize that it's a pity you weren't arrested for menacing.
Only in your unique way of thinking.
Face it, you initiated a potentially deadly confrontation over nothing. Nothing but some conduct you perceived as impolite. I tried to be polite to you the first time, but honestly the fact that you confronted these people over something as low-stakes as some drunken loudness makes you look like a small person.
I'm gonna step out of this conversation because at this point I don't want to be seen talking to you. Go ahead and have the last word...
"What you did was wrong."
I live in Massachustts, a traditionally anti-gun state, so perhaps I treat my concealed carry permit with some delicacy, since it was so touchy to get it.
When I applied, my instructor suggested I request a concealed carry permit. My town requires that I have to write a letter to the Chief of Police explaining why I need it.
I know that rankles people who don't live here, and I understand why, but that is the rule in my town.
My instructor explained: The Chief of Police doesn't want to have to explain later on why he approved a concealed carry permit for a murderer.
So, I disagree with what you did. Doesn't make me right, but just my opinion. If they had been harassing other diners, throwing food around, and perhaps telling the owner to shove it, maybe it might have been appropriate.
In this case, noisy, intoxicated post-adolecents...I don' t really think so.
what state has open carry?
The Switzerland argument is total crap. The Swiss do not carry their Swiss Army Weapons around town and brandish them openly -- that would be a crime! The guns are kept at home as part of the Swiss defense strategery.
People like you are the best argument against allowing weapons in public. Your actions were beyond irresponsible. What gave YOU the right to decide the noise policy inside a restaurant and then threaten other customers with your obvious intimidation tactic backed up with a gun? Were you the owner, manager, or a cop? No, you were just another customer making a complete fool of yourself -- and for what? Noise?
The fact that you are so proud of yourself for scaring a bunch of kids is the most pathetic part of this disgraceful tale.
Agreed,it is the fumes that ignite, not the liquid.
By my figuring, I've had about 17,000 breakfasts so far. Shame I didn't know in advance I was entitled for every last one of them to be exactly the way I wanted. Guess I'm a pussy.
Surprising. Not only is open carry legal in Montana, concealed carry without a permit is legal while engaged in, travelling to or returning from any outdoor activity in which self-defense might be necessary, such as hiking, hunting, fishing, skiing, snowmobiling, etc, as long as one is outside city limits.
Thanks for the code. My humble cusory reading doesn't see any violation, that should involve the police.
There were no fighting words, exposures, unreasonable noises (disrupting the business in question).
If that table refused to be quiet, at the request of one patron, and the restaurant staff chose not to call the police, what is the violation?
Did it occur to you that one of those muscular young men could have jumped you & grabbed your gun?
And pointed it at you?
Right. I must comment that since being LTC, I find I no longer get angry in traffic, and have become more passive. I just keep out of the way of @ssholes.
I hate paperwork, and courts, and things like that. Even if someone does a vehicular assault that I can prove, and I (rightly) plug him between the eyes, I am probably going to lose my house paying for legal fees, and possibly my freedom.
Things can escalate too fast. This is not a rehearsal, it's for all the chips.
Neither the Federalist nor the Anti-Federalist papers address the Bill of Rights--they only address the text of the un-amended Constitution. If you want to understand the Federal Constitution's Bill of Rights, the place to look is at the pre-Constitution Bills of Rights of the various states. The best statement is from the Connecticut state constitution (paraphrasing, as I don't have the exact quote handy) "that the people have the right to keep and bear arms for defense of themselves and their own state, and the taking of game". Self defense, militia duty, and hunting were ALL reasons for codifying the RKBA.
See a couple of my prior posts. The raucous laughter was punctuated by four letter words and racial slurs.
Arizona is one state I know of.
NC theoretically has open carry, but it would be insane to try it here in Chapel Hill.
If anything, carrying openly demands that you show MORE courtesy, restraint, and civility. Having a lethal weapon on your person demands that you take more crap off people than you normally would.
This comes from a 5.9" guy who got into constant fights in HS while weighing less than 160 lbs. Carrying that kind of chip on your shoulder when sporting a weapon is a recipe for trouble. A firearm is the LAST resort for settling problems, not a flashing billboard to announce that you can't be ****ed around with.
Your car would have had 4 flat tires and excellent cursive writing on it with my key.
Hope you enjoyed your eggs.
I had no idea this thread would stir up such a hornet's nest.
They weren't in "public." The fact that you can't grasp that simple fact is troubling
Louisiana, Vermont and Montana for starters.
I think you need to seriously analyze your reasons for carrying.
And by the way, somebody tries that crap with me they are likely to lose their gun and maybe get a broken wrist if they hurry me.
Then call a cop. Thank heavens they weren't speeding.
If you're willing to take on 7 adversaries at contact distance by yourself, it's clear you have had no training.
Poor CJ. He probably thought he was going to get a chorus of "Right On's" on FR. Ah well, you live you learn. A good thing, in this case. I have done stuff in a vacuum before, and when I told others about it, I did not get the response I expected. Gave me time to think about it.
My money's on small penis.
As long as the owner/manager of the establishment doesn't object, yes.
Yep. Even though he's likely to deny it, you know he circled the table so everyone could get a good glimpse of the 9 on his hip. That would be menacing in my state.
See a couple of my prior posts. The raucous laughter was punctuated by four letter words and racial slurs.<<
So what the F is your point? Are you gonna shoot'em for offensive laguage?
Do you like owning your home or want to give it to them in most idiotic method possible?
You're a nut and a liar.
"After listening to their raucous laughter for 10 minutes, I politely asked the waitress to ask them to hold down the noise. All I wanted to do was eat my breakfast in relative peace.
Her request for quiet lasted about 45 seconds, then the noise and laughter resumed. At that point, I decided to do something."
In your original post you only cite raucous laughter no cursing, no racial slurs. Nothing.
When your story has to change that's a sign that you admit you were wrong and go home.
hahaha...see post #83...
Uh, the discrimination laws are specific, ie, one may not discriminate against race, color, sex, creed, religion.
It doesn't say you may not discriminate for ANY reason.
Read the law, cowboy.
Ditto - If you all can "what if" it to death, so can I.
Is it up to you to enforce the drunk and disorderly laws in your town?
I doubt you would have even made a move if you didn't bring your weapon with you.
After having stuck around reading more of this post than I intended (and many of your responses) I have a question.
Do you in any way feel that you were wrong in your actions now that you have read multiple opinions that you were?
BTW, open carry is legal in VA.
I pulled and fired a gun more than once at people, but one
time it cost me. I didn't hit the person, thank God! I was
arrested on the side of I-90 in Washington State.Stupid,
stupid,stupid!!! I have never carried again.That was 25 years
a go.I carried a Dan Wesson 357 and thought I was Dirty Harry.
Then you should have called the cops, Deputy.
Oh, that's right, they would have laughed your ass off the phone.
That's like arresting people for smoking - in a cigar bar!
DE has open carry as well.
Disorderly conduct. Circling the table with it prominently in view, especially in the context of a conflict, is more serious than disorderly conduct, I think.
Probably the only reason you didn't go to jail that night is because you victims were worried about driving home with alcohol on their breath after giving their statements to the cops that would have arrested you. If someone sober had been among the group, you might be out 1 kidney after the first time you ignored their instructions to "STAY DOWN!" until the police arrive.
I'd love to hear you explain to the cops, and later, the judge just what, exactly, was your purpose in circling the table twice before you gave them your super-polite little 'Billy Jack' speech.
I tell ya, CJ, you chose the Way of the Little Asshole. I know we can look at the technicalities of the laws in this state or that, but, bottom line, you came into a place that was the way it was before you got there, and you used your gun to bend it to your preferences. "Once shot a man, just fer snorin'!"
I think it's pretty obvious that, if the shoe was on the other foot and some young guy came up to your table and asked you and your buddies to "please try to keep it down so the rest of us can enjoy our meals in peace," you'd stand up with your gun on your hip, circle him twice, and say something like, "This isn't a library, we have a right to talk any way we want, we were already here when you came in, if you don't like it, leave!"
"....cusory reading doesn't see any violation,..."
(8) displays a firearm or other deadly weapon in a public place in a manner calculated to alarm;
the above paragraph has got Joe deadnuts.....I'm sure that any lawyer present will agree.