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'Christian' Pat Robertson calls for the assassination of Venezuela's President Chavez
Vheadline.com ^ | 8/22/05 | staff

Posted on 08/22/2005 5:43:04 PM PDT by Rebelbase

hristian Broadcasting Network's The 700 Club host Pat Robertson ... founder of the Christian Coalition of America has called for the assassination of Venezuelan President Hugo Chavez Frias.

In a direct transcript of his August 22 The 700 Club broadcast Robertson clearly says:

There was a popular coup that overthrew him [Chavez]. And what did the United States State Department do about it? Virtually nothing. And as a result, within about 48 hours that coup was broken; Chavez was back in power, but we had a chance to move in. He has destroyed the Venezuelan economy, and he's going to make that a launching pad for communist infiltration and Muslim extremism all over the continent.

You know, I don't know about this doctrine of assassination, but if he thinks we're trying to assassinate him, I think that we really ought to go ahead and do it.

It's a whole lot cheaper than starting a war ... and I don't think any oil shipments will stop. But this man is a terrific danger and the United ... this is in our sphere of influence, so we can't let this happen.

We have the Monroe Doctrine, we have other doctrines that we have announced. And without question, this is a dangerous enemy to our south, controlling a huge pool of oil, that could hurt us very badly.

We have the ability to take him out, and I think the time has come that we exercise that ability.

We don't need another $200 billion war to get rid of one, you know, strong-arm dictator. It's a whole lot easier to have some of the covert operatives do the job and then get it over with.


TOPICS: Culture/Society; Extended News; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: hugochavez; patrobertson; venezuela; viacondios
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To: Jorge
What a distorted concept of the Bible and what Christ taught. I suppose you think that because of Jesus we should let terrorists massacre our people and do NOTHING to retaliate because of we must "forgive"??? We should have allowed the BTK murderer go free because of Jesus and the NT? Do I really have to explain these things to you? Nice try!

Boy, you sure do love to deal in extremes! As if there's no other option between letting murderers go free and whacking them.

What I can tell you is that Christ didn't have very much to say at all about politics. And despite how you'd like to use religion to pimp your foreign policy ideas, their is no religious objectives to be accomplished by assassinating Chavez.
151 posted on 08/22/2005 7:05:29 PM PDT by Conservative til I die
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To: ChristianDefender
No he is not!! Pat surrendered his credentials when he ran for president. He attends the First Baptist Church of Va. Beach and has not been a pastor for many many years.
152 posted on 08/22/2005 7:05:32 PM PDT by Coldwater Creek ("Over there, Over there, we will be there until it is Over there.")
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To: Ostlandr
Question: Is it a coincidence that the three groups most persecuted by the Nazis- Jews, Gypsies and Catholics- all had traditions of what could be called 'defense against the Dark Arts?'

No coincidence at all. Hitler was a deeply superstitious pagan and that Thule Society nuttery is all the creepy proof one would need of that.

153 posted on 08/22/2005 7:05:56 PM PDT by Petronski (I stick to Rovian talking points: "I love Cyborg!")
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To: Young Scholar
Amen to that...I actually had a

liberal once try to tell me

that Bush couldn't be a Christian due to that commandment..

I of course explained "Thou Shall Not Murder"

but he was so ignorant of the word of God..he couldn't

understand it...
154 posted on 08/22/2005 7:06:38 PM PDT by PaulaB (Waiting On My Blessed Hope)
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To: freethinker22
Nixon didn't call out the Ohio National Guard.

BTW, I was so happy to see the draftdodgers turn on the National Guard, and vice versa, I swore that in the future I'd make sure I voted only for politicians who were willing to fight our wars with National Guardsmen.

"W" gets my vote every time!

155 posted on 08/22/2005 7:06:52 PM PDT by muawiyah (/ hey coach do I gotta' put in that "/sarcasm " thing again?)
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To: PaulaB

Well he certainly should have an opinion, just like you and me.


156 posted on 08/22/2005 7:07:08 PM PDT by Coldwater Creek ("Over there, Over there, we will be there until it is Over there.")
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To: muawiyah

Pat Robertson has been a So Baptist for many many years.


157 posted on 08/22/2005 7:08:00 PM PDT by Coldwater Creek ("Over there, Over there, we will be there until it is Over there.")
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To: since1868

While I am not in favor of assassination I am in favor of a use of force if necessary. Assassination smacks of thuggery; 5,000 Marines smacks of national resolve. That being said I am in favor of the priestly class advocating the warrior class take care of a possible threat. St. Bernard of Clairvaux comes to mind. It is good when our civilization moves as one i.e. the three orders being present and accounted for.


158 posted on 08/22/2005 7:08:18 PM PDT by AEMILIUS PAULUS (It is a shame that when these people give a riot)
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To: Rebelbase
Ol' Pat must have watch one too many episodes of The Monsignor Martinez Mysteries.

Via Con Dios!

159 posted on 08/22/2005 7:08:23 PM PDT by csvset
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To: Burr5

This is not about agreeing or disagreeing on a public issue. This is about calling on the government to conduct state-sponsered assassination. As horrible as Chavez is, it's not appropriate for a man of the cloth to be calling for such a thing. If Pat Robertson were an intelligence agent or analyst, it would be different. But men of the cloth are about saving souls and ministering to troubled people. Robertson should know better.


160 posted on 08/22/2005 7:08:46 PM PDT by Clintonfatigued (Jeanine Pirro for Senate, Hillary Clinton for Weight Watchers Spokeswoman)
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To: mariabush
So true..isn't it strange how when

one Christian says something..

all Christians are attacked? The Devil

is not stupid...he will continue to divide us

among these lines...
161 posted on 08/22/2005 7:08:56 PM PDT by PaulaB (Waiting On My Blessed Hope)
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To: mariabush

He does have an M.Div. from New York Theological Seminary. However, I was arguing that this should not preclude him from political activism.


162 posted on 08/22/2005 7:09:25 PM PDT by Young Scholar
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To: Rebelbase
More damage to the cause of Christ.

I would characterize his liquidation as For the Greater Good, similar to the long term benefits derived from the termination of Salvador Allende.

Failure to act swiftly and decisively could doom the people of Venezuela to 50 or more years of what the Cubans have been forced to live through for the past 50 years.

163 posted on 08/22/2005 7:10:08 PM PDT by StopGlobalWhining (Only 3 1/2-5% of atmospheric CO2 is the result of human activities. 95-96.5% is from natural sources)
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To: muawiyah

He is a member of 1st Baptist, Va. Beach, unless something has changed very recently.


164 posted on 08/22/2005 7:10:09 PM PDT by Coldwater Creek ("Over there, Over there, we will be there until it is Over there.")
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To: muawiyah

Come on Mua, be honest here.

How long have you been holding on to that word, waiting to find a use for it in a post...

:)


165 posted on 08/22/2005 7:11:13 PM PDT by Lord_Baltar
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To: Young Scholar

You are right.!!!!!!!


166 posted on 08/22/2005 7:11:23 PM PDT by Coldwater Creek ("Over there, Over there, we will be there until it is Over there.")
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To: Conservative til I die
What I can tell you is that Christ didn't have very much to say at all about politics.

No but God did in the Old Testament..Jesus' coming did not change rules made in the Old Testament
167 posted on 08/22/2005 7:11:50 PM PDT by PaulaB (Waiting On My Blessed Hope)
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To: Petronski
Touchy, touchy. No one is trying to smear the Catholic church. The point was about Hitler's church membership, and what part that would have played in any action on his part to send Catholic German troops to Italy to tear up the Vatican.

Noting that the Italians had cheered on Catholic Italian troops tearing up comparable institutions in Ethiopia, I merely suggested this would have been done to the cheers of the Italian fascists and Italian communists if their prior behavior meant anything in particular.

The smear is of the Italian fascists and communists ~ if such a smear were possible.

Your response is rather like that of the commedic routine that ends "don't say nothin' 'bout the brother."

Better for you to read the logic than to search for insults.

Now, getting beyond the hypotheticals of church law, do you have a cite to any specific action taken at any time by any religious organization to disaffiliate Adolph Hitler? Doesn't mean they had to do so, just WAS IT DONE?

168 posted on 08/22/2005 7:12:47 PM PDT by muawiyah (/ hey coach do I gotta' put in that "/sarcasm " thing again?)
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To: Rebelbase

What part of this do you disagree with? Do you think it would be more Christian to launch an invasion if the removal of one man would be the lesser evil?

Would you consider it "un-Christian" to call for the assassination of Osama Bin Laden?


169 posted on 08/22/2005 7:14:10 PM PDT by streetpreacher (If at the end of the day, 100% of both sides are not angry with me, I've failed.)
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To: muawiyah
Touchy, touchy. No one is trying to smear the Catholic church.

LOL

170 posted on 08/22/2005 7:14:58 PM PDT by Petronski (I stick to Rovian talking points: "I love Cyborg!")
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To: muawiyah

Wonderful. The report about Chavez killings I was given earlier described "thugs" who shot people in Caracas. In Kent State, we knew that the National Guard, a government entity, acted, and by their actions, killed citizens. I would say that makes the analogy I made earlier somewhat appropriate, no?

And as for "draftdodgers turning on the National Guard", I assume you don't mean me, as I am a 24 year old guy.

Thanks, and again I wait for a link and source to Chavez plotting Hitlerian genocide, as was oft-cited by people in this thread.

Thanks.


171 posted on 08/22/2005 7:16:05 PM PDT by freethinker22
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To: Brilliant

It wasn't long ago when assassination was an official doctrine of U.S. intelligence; what's so idiotic about calling for a legitimate means of force? Especially if it saves the lives of thousands...


172 posted on 08/22/2005 7:16:49 PM PDT by streetpreacher (If at the end of the day, 100% of both sides are not angry with me, I've failed.)
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To: streetpreacher
If anyone thinks that Iraq is a recruiting ground for terrorist, they should check into Venezuela.
173 posted on 08/22/2005 7:19:03 PM PDT by Coldwater Creek ("Over there, Over there, we will be there until it is Over there.")
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To: Lord_Baltar
I find it necessary to bring that particular word up in a discussion thread on FR quite regularly.

There's always somebody new who needs to be informed of this classic Christian heresy.

I have a series of letters between myself and Senator Glenn concerning Antinomianism. The more Liberal Presbyterians are among its most vocal adherents ~ even if they never heard of it and can't spell it right.

174 posted on 08/22/2005 7:19:20 PM PDT by muawiyah (/ hey coach do I gotta' put in that "/sarcasm " thing again?)
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To: wagglebee
Yet have you ever wondered why Christ had never told Peter not to carry a sword prior to this.

That's not the point. No one is arguing that Christians should be pacifists or that they should refrain from defending themselves. Some here are projecting their own bloodlust by saying that killing one's enemies is not only not wrong, but what God commands of us. And I'm sorry, that is not true. Christ came to preach His message of salvation, not the politics of the Republican Party or the NeoCons.
175 posted on 08/22/2005 7:20:47 PM PDT by Conservative til I die
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To: Conservative til I die
As if there's no other option between letting murderers go free and whacking them.

There are. Just none I can see here that justify accusations of Christian hypocrisy.

What I can tell you is that Christ didn't have very much to say at all about politics. And despite how you'd like to use religion to pimp your foreign policy ideas, their is no religious objectives to be accomplished by assassinating Chavez.

How would you know?

I'm no fan of Pat Robertson. But I can find no basis for the holier than thou condemnations of his statement that I see on this board.

And again, those who believe Jesus is God incarnate, cannot separate Him from the OT God and make such across the board condemnations.

176 posted on 08/22/2005 7:21:04 PM PDT by Jorge
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To: Rebelbase

"a man of the cloth to be calling for an assassination is way off base."

My point exactly.

WHY?
Another attempt to "muscle" a Christian of his free speech??
Hmmmmm???


177 posted on 08/22/2005 7:22:10 PM PDT by danamco
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To: AEMILIUS PAULUS
Assassination smacks of thuggery; 5,000 Marines smacks of national resolve. That being said I am in favor of the priestly class advocating the warrior class take care of a possible threat.

Now we're talking about "possible" threats instead of actual threats? Dangerous stuff.
178 posted on 08/22/2005 7:23:22 PM PDT by Conservative til I die
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To: mariabush
Ah ok.. thanks for the info... Yet he has become a popular christian figure.

He just have to be careful with his statements, though i love it!

179 posted on 08/22/2005 7:24:45 PM PDT by ChristianDefender (If you can't fight with M16/M4.. then use prayer, if not just choose whose side are You!)
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To: danamco

Show me where the New Testament advocates church leaders to call for assassination.

These men are supposed to lead by scriptural example, not their fleshly beliefs.


180 posted on 08/22/2005 7:24:48 PM PDT by Rebelbase ("Run Hillary Run" bumper stickers. Liberals place on rear bumper, conservatives put on front bumper)
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To: Jorge

Don't hyperventilate Jorge...

Aside from not answering my question, let's delve a bit into your angry response...

"I suppose you think that because of Jesus we should let terrorists massacre our people and do NOTHING to retaliate because of we must "forgive"???"

Chavez massacred our people?

"We should have allowed the BTK murderer go free because of Jesus and the NT?"

Huh? now you're reaching Jorge, I've seen pictures of that BTK guy and he looks nothing like Chavez.

"Do I really have to explain these things to you?"

Uh, yeah, if you're gonna continue equating Assassinating a Foreign Leader with the BTK Killer, using the OT as justification.

Here, I'll give you some simpler questions this time, what other Foriegn Leaders should be assassinated? Who would Jesus Assassinate?

"Nice try!"

I wish I could say the same for you, but you went off on a rant and didn't bother to answer my question...




181 posted on 08/22/2005 7:25:05 PM PDT by Lord_Baltar
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To: Conservative til I die

Obviously you've missed out on the last 40 years of political history. Christ's Spirit has moved among the people and put the Republicans into all the offices and elevated the Neo-cons to the highest honors.


182 posted on 08/22/2005 7:25:41 PM PDT by muawiyah (/ hey coach do I gotta' put in that "/sarcasm " thing again?)
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To: Rebelbase
I'm also a Christian and I agree with him. If someone would have done that to Hitler there wouldn't have been so many humans murdered.
183 posted on 08/22/2005 7:26:23 PM PDT by fish hawk (I am only one, but I am not the only one.)
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To: Rebelbase

Venezuela fixes gas prices at 12.5 cents a gallon


184 posted on 08/22/2005 7:27:02 PM PDT by ElRushbo (Harley Riders against Elton John)
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To: PaulaB
No but God did in the Old Testament..Jesus' coming did not change rules made in the Old Testament

So the Old Testament supersedes the New? Funny, this new-fangled "American Israelism" theory that quite a few here are promoting didn't seem to exist for the first 1900 or so years of Christian history.

The Old Testament deals with specific instances having to do with Israel and its enemies. It is not license for anyone to speak for God and decide to smote who they think are his enemies on their own.
185 posted on 08/22/2005 7:27:07 PM PDT by Conservative til I die
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To: Jorge
What I can tell you is that Christ didn't have very much to say at all about politics. And despite how you'd like to use religion to pimp your foreign policy ideas, their is no religious objectives to be accomplished by assassinating Chavez. How would you know?

"Amurrhiken" freedom is not a Christian objective. America is not Christendom. I'm a Catholic first, an American second, a GOP member third, and a neo-con last.
186 posted on 08/22/2005 7:28:51 PM PDT by Conservative til I die
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To: Rebelbase

Being that I am not a Christian, I can say that I actually agree with Pat on this one. Hugo el amigo de Fidel must go. Yesterday.


187 posted on 08/22/2005 7:28:52 PM PDT by Clemenza (Proud "Free Traitor" & Capitalist Pig)
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To: Conservative til I die

I think the word you were looking for was "smite", as in "to Smite" "Jane said she was going to Smite John"

I'm not sure, but I think "smote" would be the term for after the fact "John Smote Jane, before she could Smite him"

Granted, I could be wrong about that...

:)


188 posted on 08/22/2005 7:30:05 PM PDT by Lord_Baltar
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To: Rebelbase
Show me where the New Testament advocates church leaders to call for assassination.

You musta missed the chapter where Jesus got the GOP nomination for head of the Sanhedrin.
189 posted on 08/22/2005 7:30:15 PM PDT by Conservative til I die
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To: Brilliant

Another reason that liberals distrust Christians.


190 posted on 08/22/2005 7:31:34 PM PDT by Loud Mime (War is Mankind's way of ridding the world of the tyranny caused by liberalism)
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To: Rebelbase
Pat Robertson is not a church leader, even though the left likes to say that he is the spokesman for conservative Christian. He has a Christian based news show.

I am a devout Christian and I do not think that his remarks are out of line at all.
191 posted on 08/22/2005 7:32:55 PM PDT by Coldwater Creek ("Over there, Over there, we will be there until it is Over there.")
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To: Rebelbase

These men are supposed to lead by scriptural example, not their fleshly beliefs.


Where do you get that from? Who says that?? Where in the N.T???


192 posted on 08/22/2005 7:36:24 PM PDT by danamco
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To: Lord_Baltar
Chavez massacred our people?

Who said he did?

You attempted to misrepresent the New Testiment teachings as somehow prohibiting our using violence against foreign enemies.

I was addressing the fallacy of your argument.

Don't let your personal anger against those who discredit your positions distort your judgment. Try to follow the debate more closely.

193 posted on 08/22/2005 7:38:59 PM PDT by Jorge
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To: Loud Mime

Who cares what liberals think about Christians???????


194 posted on 08/22/2005 7:40:49 PM PDT by Coldwater Creek ("Over there, Over there, we will be there until it is Over there.")
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To: Jorge
You attempted to misrepresent the New Testiment teachings as somehow prohibiting our using violence against foreign enemies.

You're omitting the rest of your thought. There's nothing evil about using violence against enemies in legitimate self-defense. Pre-emptive strikes almost never are permissible.
195 posted on 08/22/2005 7:41:08 PM PDT by Conservative til I die
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To: Jorge

Is God commanding this? Did I miss something here?


196 posted on 08/22/2005 7:42:32 PM PDT by Melas (The dumber the troll, the longer the thread)
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To: F16Fighter
Yes! Christianity is not Islam, and hasn't really behaved in that way since the Thirty Years War. For a Christian leader to call for assassination, even of a person like Hitler, cannot be allowed. Catholics have spent fifty years trying to come to grips with the actions of Claus von Stauffenberg.
While no one condemns the action of this devout Catholic in trying to kill Hitler, you will find very few in the Church who hold his effort up as worthy of emulation.
197 posted on 08/22/2005 7:42:39 PM PDT by xkaydet65 (Peace, Love, Brotherhood, and Firepower. And the greatest of these is Firepower!)
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To: Jorge

"Don't let your personal anger against those who discredit your positions distort your judgment. Try to follow the debate more closely."

Jorge, I'm hardly angry, and you've done little to discredit my position through you fanatical lip waving.

As for any fallacy of argument, I'll make it as simple as I can for you, What would Jesus say about Assassinating a Foreign Leader?


198 posted on 08/22/2005 7:42:54 PM PDT by Lord_Baltar
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To: Jorge

I'm gonna' have to re-read the New Testement. I just don't remember any of this stuff.


199 posted on 08/22/2005 7:43:09 PM PDT by Types_with_Fist (I'm on FReep so often that when I read an article at another site I scroll down for the comments.)
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To: wagglebee

You're sounding an awful lot like muslim terrorist.


200 posted on 08/22/2005 7:44:47 PM PDT by Melas (The dumber the troll, the longer the thread)
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